abortion

catefrances

callen wrote:

catefrances wrote:

callen wrote:

So are you saying that your unfertilized eggs are also human? That my sperm are each little humans? Then we’re both mass murderers...well me more than you.

me, not at all considering i cant expel even 1 egg through masturbation. oh and you seem to be confusing human with personhood. one is biological, the other philosophical.

Not confusing anything, eggs and sperm get no rights as an egg that’s just been fertilized should have no rights and a young woman that had a rubber break, should not feel guilt in getting a morning after pill. Course you know what I’m saying but avoiding addressing the “Magical Power” that happens the instant and egg is fertilized. Soooo the age old question about abortion is at what point should the developing egg and sperm get rights.

the magical power?? theres nothing magical about conception. it happens millions of times throughout many many species of animal every single day of the year and has done for a bloody long time. the only people who associate conception with some 'magical' moment are those who seek to control others. imagine how their heads would explode if they became fully conscious of all the spontaneous abortions that happen every day cause for whatever reason the fertilised egg decides to peel itself away from the uterine wall and flush itself from a womans body naturally. would they then question what it was the woman did to precipitate such an action? would they be of the opinion that, 'well you must have done something'.

what i know is you are confusing being human, which our sperm and eggs cant be anything but, biologically.. cause lets face it we cant gestate a feline... with when a embryo/foetus can be determined to be a person, at which point is has the same rights afforded every other person within a society. that it was the pro life mob seem hellbent on determining. they say life begins at conception(which i agree with soley because something dead does not/can not grow/develop). this has never been an issue for me in regards to abortion. for me abortion has never been about when an embryo/foetus is considered alive. for me abortion is about me having sovereignty over my own body.. not for other people to tell me what i can and can not do with it. a woman cant be forced into some sort of gestational servitude. and besides whose business is it what i choose to do with my body. ill tell you who... nobody. as far as when do egg and sperm gets rights.. for me the answer(and the question for that matter) is moot. simply because the moment they come together they both cease to exist as separate entities. so it doesnt matter how many sperm you ejaculate you cant/wont/shant be labelled a murderer no matter how pious the accuser. and lets face it, murder is a legal term anyway. every sperm is not sacred. just as every egg is not. and without each other, they are both useless. that is unless you use sperm as a face mask.

catefrances

Last-12-Exit wrote:

Jason P wrote:

How long does it take for a normal term, fully healthy baby to survive on its own?

IMO, its a matter of opinion and which side of the debate your on. I've read that with the help of neonatal intensive care, a fetus can survive after 26 weeks.

As far as a fetus living with no intensive care help, I don't know... I would guess 30 weeks.

babies can survive from 22 weeks.

lukin2006

Jason P

Last-12-Exit wrote:

Jason P wrote:

How long does it take for a normal term, fully healthy baby to survive on its own?

IMO, its a matter of opinion and which side of the debate your on. I've read that with the help of neonatal intensive care, a fetus can survive after 26 weeks.

As far as a fetus living with no intensive care help, I don't know... I would guess 30 weeks.

I was getting at the point of what age a baby needs to be so that is could survive if left alone in a room full of food and all the adults left never to return. Two years? Three years?

The "intensive care" argument made me think of this notion. Care or intensive care ... caring is required for life to continue up to a certain age.

Jason P

George Carlin apparantly was never around a mean rooster ..

:fp:

catefrances

Jason P wrote:

Last-12-Exit wrote:

Jason P wrote:

How long does it take for a normal term, fully healthy baby to survive on its own?

IMO, its a matter of opinion and which side of the debate your on. I've read that with the help of neonatal intensive care, a fetus can survive after 26 weeks.

As far as a fetus living with no intensive care help, I don't know... I would guess 30 weeks.

I was getting at the point of what age a baby needs to be so that is could survive if left alone in a room full of food and all the adults left never to return. Two years? Three years?

The "intensive care" argument made me think of this notion. Care or intensive care ... caring is required for life to continue up to a certain age.

i think itd be a whole lot less than 2 or 3 years. how long would it take for a newborn to starve to death.. thats what youre asking.

Jason P

catefrances wrote:

i think itd be a whole lot less than 2 or 3 years. how long would it take for a newborn to starve to death.. thats what youre asking.

Kind of. I don't have any experiance raising kids. I'm middle of the road on this issue but I'm facinated sometimes by how polor opposites form their opinion on this matter.

A few months ago I was debating on how my younger brother was born severly premature and is fine now, through the "miracle" of intensive care. But I just got to thinking that even if he was born on a normal schedule, he still would need the "miracle" of old fashioned care to survive up to a certain age.

And when did life start for him? From out of the womb or from out of intensive care? Or from when he learned how to undo a fruit roll-up?

:think:

Last-12-Exit

Jason P wrote:

catefrances wrote:

i think itd be a whole lot less than 2 or 3 years. how long would it take for a newborn to starve to death.. thats what youre asking.

Kind of. I don't have any experiance raising kids. I'm middle of the road on this issue but I'm facinated sometimes by how polor opposites form their opinion on this matter.

A few months ago I was debating on how my younger brother was born severly premature and is fine now, through the "miracle" of intensive care. But I just got to thinking that even if he was born on a normal schedule, he still would need the "miracle" of old fashioned care to survive up to a certain age.

And when did life start for him? From out of the womb or from out of intensive care? Or from when he learned how to undo a fruit roll-up?

:think:

I see your point. I wasn't calling intensive care a miracle. It's a product of technology. My brother was also born dangerously premature. He spent 3 weeks in intensive care.
I tend to agree with catefrances. The point of when life begins is irrelevant to me. It should be up to the mother/parents on what to do with an unwanted baby.

unsung

What was the point of bumping a four year old thread?

hedonist

unsung wrote:

What was the point of bumping a four year old thread?

Seems to be a trend lately. Dunno why, though.

Last-12, based on other posts of yours, I'm positive you didn't mean it this way, but when you say "what to do with an unwanted baby", it makes me think of the ones tossed in trash cans, left in front of safe-haven locations, and the like.

I often cry "semantics" but in this case, your calling it/him/her a baby vs. fetus, embryo...left me ill at ease.

Again, this isn't toward you; moreso how the wording struck me.

catefrances

Jason P wrote:

catefrances wrote:

i think itd be a whole lot less than 2 or 3 years. how long would it take for a newborn to starve to death.. thats what youre asking.

Kind of. I don't have any experiance raising kids. I'm middle of the road on this issue but I'm facinated sometimes by how polor opposites form their opinion on this matter.

A few months ago I was debating on how my younger brother was born severly premature and is fine now, through the "miracle" of intensive care. But I just got to thinking that even if he was born on a normal schedule, he still would need the "miracle" of old fashioned care to survive up to a certain age.

And when did life start for him? From out of the womb or from out of intensive care? Or from when he learned how to undo a fruit roll-up?

:think:

undoing a fruit roll up is a considerable skill.