abortion

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  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    i can't imagine many 'good men' being shut out, b/c usually good men are with good women[/quote]

    I hope I won't be judged by some of the women i have been with :0
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Abuskedti wrote:
    i can't imagine many 'good men' being shut out, b/c usually good men are with good women

    I hope I won't be judged by some of the women i have been with :0

    I would say the reason it's less likely for good men to be shut out of the decision-making process is because, generally speaking, good men are more likely to be good partners. One can't expect this decision to be made as a partnership if there was no real partnership there to begin with. I'm not just talking about one-night-stands.

    When I talk to women who are trying to make a pregnancy decision, I encourage them to identify someone who will serve as good support for them during this difficult time (someone who will provide good emotional support, not someone who will necessarily agree with their decision). If their husband or boyfriend or whoever is a good, supportive partner, they are usually the person the woman turns to.
  • heidihi
    heidihi Posts: 114
    Abortion is not a decision that can be made lightly of for you. I fell pregnant at 22 and had only been with the father for a few months however we had known each other for years. Many assumed we would not have the child but when it came to it I struggled to have an abortion. My parents had me at 17 and I felt that if they had not could I??? I do not regret having the baby nor would I judge another in another circumstance who chose not to. It has to be your own decision and that may be why men struggle as they did not have ownership of the decisoin. I am still with the father and we now have 3 children. At the time he was not sure that he wanted to have a baby (nor was I for that matter) he now is happy that he did. I think you can never know what you will do until you are in the situation.

    I also have a few friends who have had abortion and they always think about what might have been but they have not changed their stance on abortions. It is just such an emotionally charged subject.
    “The human race has only one really effective weapon and that is laughter.” Mark Twain
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    littledee wrote:
    Abortion is not a decision that can be made lightly of for you. I fell pregnant at 22 and had only been with the father for a few months however we had known each other for years. Many assumed we would not have the child but when it came to it I struggled to have an abortion. My parents had me at 17 and I felt that if they had not could I??? I do not regret having the baby nor would I judge another in another circumstance who chose not to. It has to be your own decision and that may be why men struggle as they did not have ownership of the decisoin. I am still with the father and we now have 3 children. At the time he was not sure that he wanted to have a baby (nor was I for that matter) he now is happy that he did. I think you can never know what you will do until you are in the situation.

    I also have a few friends who have had abortion and they always think about what might have been but they have not changed their stance on abortions. It is just such an emotionally charged subject.
    here it is. the end of the abortion debate.

    its up to the mother to decide. period. end of discussion.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    littledee wrote:
    Abortion is not a decision that can be made lightly of for you. I fell pregnant at 22 and had only been with the father for a few months however we had known each other for years. Many assumed we would not have the child but when it came to it I struggled to have an abortion. My parents had me at 17 and I felt that if they had not could I??? I do not regret having the baby nor would I judge another in another circumstance who chose not to. It has to be your own decision and that may be why men struggle as they did not have ownership of the decisoin. I am still with the father and we now have 3 children. At the time he was not sure that he wanted to have a baby (nor was I for that matter) he now is happy that he did. I think you can never know what you will do until you are in the situation.

    I also have a few friends who have had abortion and they always think about what might have been but they have not changed their stance on abortions. It is just such an emotionally charged subject.

    Thats the thing....there shouldn't be guilt. A fetus is not a human. Its just those that feel the instant the sperm and egg connect thee cells are a full fledged human...and its not. Make the desicion thats right for you....don't regret. If you want to have a child later...under different circumstances...you can.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    littledee wrote:
    It has to be your own decision and that may be why men struggle as they did not have ownership of the decisoin.... I think you can never know what you will do until you are in the situation.

    I wholeheartedly agree.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited January 2009
    scb wrote:
    littledee wrote:
    It has to be your own decision and that may be why men struggle as they did not have ownership of the decisoin.... I think you can never know what you will do until you are in the situation.

    I wholeheartedly agree.

    "men struggle"?!?!...... myself along with all my male freinds understand its the woman thats developing this life, permanently altering her body and being the care giver. The male, 15 minutes of some lovin....thats it. So sure its the woman that ultimately should make the decision.

    Now if we could just ignore those that bestow their guilt on those that decide to not develop a human we'd be in good shape. And yea avoiding abortions in the first place with open communication to young humans about human sexuality. Also provde easy access and affordable birth control. Kind of ironic that some that oppose abortion also fight sex education and attempt to suppress sexuality causing those unwanted pregnacies.
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • heidihi
    heidihi Posts: 114
    scb wrote:
    Now if we could just ignore those that bestow their guilt on those that decide to not develop a human we'd be in good shape. And yea avoiding abortions in the first place with open communication to young humans about human sexuality. Also provde easy access and affordable birth control. Kind of ironic that some that oppose abortion also fight sex education and attempt to suppress sexuality causing those unwanted pregnacies
    I agree with this so much, my daughter is 11 and I hope that she will understand her body enough (hopefully this is still a number of years away :? ) to never be place in this situation as it would be great for her to never have to make this decision. People need to acknowledge that sex is just another part of life and understand that it will happen if we have sex ed or not. Surely it is better for kids to know exactly what is happening to their bodies and how they will fall pregnant (not to mention STD's).

    As much as abortion is something that everyone should have the option to, the procedure itself is not so nice nor is the pressure placed on people when making decisions about this. As I said I just hope that my daughter or my sons never have to make these decisions.... idealistic I know but it would be nice.
    “The human race has only one really effective weapon and that is laughter.” Mark Twain
  • davidtrios
    davidtrios Posts: 9,732
    Me: "So, If President Obama was conceived in Idaho, then his parents decided to go to Kenya 3 months into the pregnancy. Let's also say he was born in Kenya, would he still be an American Citizen?"

    Republican: "Of course not! He wasn't alive in America!"

    Me: "Oh, so you're saying that the fetus wasn't a person?"

    Repulican: "Ummmmmmmmm."
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    davidtrios wrote:
    Me: "So, If President Obama was conceived in Idaho, then his parents decided to go to Kenya 3 months into the pregnancy. Let's also say he was born in Kenya, would he still be an American Citizen?"

    Republican: "Of course not! He wasn't alive in America!"

    Me: "Oh, so you're saying that the fetus wasn't a person?"

    Repulican: "Ummmmmmmmm."
    It's definitely "umm-worthy" when saying "alive" in America...but doesn't where one is BORN determine their citizenship?

    It's like how things work here, no? Conception in another country, person comes here while pregnant (whether legally or not), and their baby born here is then deemed an American citizen.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    callen wrote:
    littledee wrote:
    Abortion is not a decision that can be made lightly of for you. I fell pregnant at 22 and had only been with the father for a few months however we had known each other for years. Many assumed we would not have the child but when it came to it I struggled to have an abortion. My parents had me at 17 and I felt that if they had not could I??? I do not regret having the baby nor would I judge another in another circumstance who chose not to. It has to be your own decision and that may be why men struggle as they did not have ownership of the decisoin. I am still with the father and we now have 3 children. At the time he was not sure that he wanted to have a baby (nor was I for that matter) he now is happy that he did. I think you can never know what you will do until you are in the situation.

    I also have a few friends who have had abortion and they always think about what might have been but they have not changed their stance on abortions. It is just such an emotionally charged subject.

    Thats the thing....there shouldn't be guilt. A fetus is not a human. Its just those that feel the instant the sperm and egg connect thee cells are a full fledged human...and its not. Make the desicion thats right for you....don't regret. If you want to have a child later...under different circumstances...you can.

    so youre saying a foetus developing inside of a human mother isnt human until when exactly???... at which point it spontaneously changes species to become human??? :fp:
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  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    catefrances wrote:
    callen wrote:
    littledee wrote:
    Abortion is not a decision that can be made lightly of for you. I fell pregnant at 22 and had only been with the father for a few months however we had known each other for years. Many assumed we would not have the child but when it came to it I struggled to have an abortion. My parents had me at 17 and I felt that if they had not could I??? I do not regret having the baby nor would I judge another in another circumstance who chose not to. It has to be your own decision and that may be why men struggle as they did not have ownership of the decisoin. I am still with the father and we now have 3 children. At the time he was not sure that he wanted to have a baby (nor was I for that matter) he now is happy that he did. I think you can never know what you will do until you are in the situation.

    I also have a few friends who have had abortion and they always think about what might have been but they have not changed their stance on abortions. It is just such an emotionally charged subject.

    Thats the thing....there shouldn't be guilt. A fetus is not a human. Its just those that feel the instant the sperm and egg connect thee cells are a full fledged human...and its not. Make the desicion thats right for you....don't regret. If you want to have a child later...under different circumstances...you can.

    so youre saying a foetus developing inside of a human mother isnt human until when exactly???... at which point it spontaneously changes species to become human??? :fp:

    When the fetus can survive on its own.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    callen wrote:
    Thats the thing....there shouldn't be guilt. A fetus is not a human. Its just those that feel the instant the sperm and egg connect thee cells are a full fledged human...and its not. Make the desicion thats right for you....don't regret. If you want to have a child later...under different circumstances...you can.

    so youre saying a foetus developing inside of a human mother isnt human until when exactly???... at which point it spontaneously changes species to become human??? :fp:

    When the fetus can survive on its own.

    no that makes it VIABLE.

    if a foetus developing inside a human mother isnt human, what is it?
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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    catefrances wrote:
    callen wrote:
    littledee wrote:
    Abortion is not a decision that can be made lightly of for you. I fell pregnant at 22 and had only been with the father for a few months however we had known each other for years. Many assumed we would not have the child but when it came to it I struggled to have an abortion. My parents had me at 17 and I felt that if they had not could I??? I do not regret having the baby nor would I judge another in another circumstance who chose not to. It has to be your own decision and that may be why men struggle as they did not have ownership of the decisoin. I am still with the father and we now have 3 children. At the time he was not sure that he wanted to have a baby (nor was I for that matter) he now is happy that he did. I think you can never know what you will do until you are in the situation.

    I also have a few friends who have had abortion and they always think about what might have been but they have not changed their stance on abortions. It is just such an emotionally charged subject.

    Thats the thing....there shouldn't be guilt. A fetus is not a human. Its just those that feel the instant the sperm and egg connect thee cells are a full fledged human...and its not. Make the desicion thats right for you....don't regret. If you want to have a child later...under different circumstances...you can.

    so youre saying a foetus developing inside of a human mother isnt human until when exactly???... at which point it spontaneously changes species to become human??? :fp:

    So are you saying that your unfertilized eggs are also human? That my sperm are each little humans? Then we’re both mass murderers...well me more than you. :mrgreen::mrgreen:
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    catefrances wrote:
    callen wrote:
    littledee wrote:
    Abortion is not a decision that can be made lightly of for you. I fell pregnant at 22 and had only been with the father for a few months however we had known each other for years. Many assumed we would not have the child but when it came to it I struggled to have an abortion. My parents had me at 17 and I felt that if they had not could I??? I do not regret having the baby nor would I judge another in another circumstance who chose not to. It has to be your own decision and that may be why men struggle as they did not have ownership of the decisoin. I am still with the father and we now have 3 children. At the time he was not sure that he wanted to have a baby (nor was I for that matter) he now is happy that he did. I think you can never know what you will do until you are in the situation.

    I also have a few friends who have had abortion and they always think about what might have been but they have not changed their stance on abortions. It is just such an emotionally charged subject.

    Thats the thing....there shouldn't be guilt. A fetus is not a human. Its just those that feel the instant the sperm and egg connect thee cells are a full fledged human...and its not. Make the desicion thats right for you....don't regret. If you want to have a child later...under different circumstances...you can.

    so youre saying a foetus developing inside of a human mother isnt human until when exactly???... at which point it spontaneously changes species to become human??? :fp:
    There’s no “Magic” that happens the instant a sperm gets inside an egg. It’s just a sperm inside an egg then it starts to divide and then form a human.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    callen wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    so youre saying a foetus developing inside of a human mother isnt human until when exactly???... at which point it spontaneously changes species to become human??? :fp:
    There’s no “Magic” that happens the instant a sperm gets inside an egg. It’s just a sperm inside an egg then it starts to divide and then form a human.

    yes but its a human egg and human sperm. that is my point.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    callen wrote:
    So are you saying that your unfertilized eggs are also human? That my sperm are each little humans? Then we’re both mass murderers...well me more than you. :mrgreen::mrgreen:


    me, not at all considering i cant expel even 1 egg through masturbation. oh and you seem to be confusing human with personhood. one is biological, the other philosophical.
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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited April 2013
    catefrances wrote:
    callen wrote:
    So are you saying that your unfertilized eggs are also human? That my sperm are each little humans? Then we’re both mass murderers...well me more than you. :mrgreen::mrgreen:


    me, not at all considering i cant expel even 1 egg through masturbation. oh and you seem to be confusing human with personhood. one is biological, the other philosophical.
    Not confusing anything, eggs and sperm get no rights as an egg that’s just been fertilized should have no rights and a young woman that had a rubber break, should not feel guilt in getting a morning after pill. Course you know what I’m saying but avoiding addressing the “Magical Power” that happens the instant and egg is fertilized. Soooo the age old question about abortion is at what point should the developing egg and sperm get rights.
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    How long does it take for a normal term, fully healthy baby to survive on its own?
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  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Jason P wrote:
    How long does it take for a normal term, fully healthy baby to survive on its own?
    IMO, its a matter of opinion and which side of the debate your on. I've read that with the help of neonatal intensive care, a fetus can survive after 26 weeks.

    As far as a fetus living with no intensive care help, I don't know... I would guess 30 weeks.

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