True. I can't see the island letting him go. He is way to big of a character to just let die. What purpose would it serve for him to even come back if he was just going to be killed off?
I don't know if anyone noticed it, but the Dharma torturer was the guy who plays E.B. Farnum on the HBO show "Deadwood." He clearly dropped some liquid acid on that sugar cube to give to Sayid. A little 70's extracurricular activity for you, might explain why he is living in the woods in a teepee.
Nice catch. I knew I knew him from somewhere.
The reason I don't think Ben can die is how would he ever meet the Losties in the future if he dies now. I'm going to rewatch the episode where Sayid tortures Ben in the Swan sometime this weekend just to see if Ben has some recognition of Sayid from his childhood.
He wouldn't have recognition because that happened before the Losties went back in time. The whole future would be different based on what is happening now.
Like Farraday said, you can't change the past. I'm beginning to think that it means you can't change the outcome of the past. You may be able to change events but the outcome will be the same.
no, nothing... NOTHING... can ever change. ben won't die; it's impossible.... it'll be interesting to see how he lives (cause he looked pretty freaking dead), but but little ben will live... and he will grow up and watch as oceanic flight 815 crashes onto the island with jack and company.
Like Farraday said, you can't change the past. I'm beginning to think that it means you can't change the outcome of the past. You may be able to change events but the outcome will be the same.
no, nothing... NOTHING... can ever change. ben won't die; it's impossible.... it'll be interesting to see how he lives (cause he looked pretty freaking dead), but but little ben will live... and he will grow up and watch as oceanic flight 815 crashes onto the island with jack and company.
ummm yes things CAN change... Faraday meets Desmond in the past, the Oceanic are part of the Dharma Initiative, Sayid meets Ben as a child, Locke meets Richard and Widmore.... ALL things which did not originally happen in the past but have now occurred.
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Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
ummm yes things CAN change... Faraday meets Desmond in the past, the Oceanic are part of the Dharma Initiative, Sayid meets Ben as a child, Locke meets Richard and Widmore.... ALL things which did not originally happen in the past but have now occurred.
How do you know Hurley, Sawyer et al were never in old Dharma photos? And we know Locke met Richard in the 50s, because Richard was present for his birth (an episode from S2 or 3) and he'd given Locke the compass to give back then. So far everything seems like it could be taking its course the way it's 'supposed' to. The only thing you could maybe argue has changed was Desmond remembering that he saw Daniel before.
Like Farraday said, you can't change the past. I'm beginning to think that it means you can't change the outcome of the past. You may be able to change events but the outcome will be the same.
no, nothing... NOTHING... can ever change. ben won't die; it's impossible.... it'll be interesting to see how he lives (cause he looked pretty freaking dead), but but little ben will live... and he will grow up and watch as oceanic flight 815 crashes onto the island with jack and company.
ummm yes things CAN change... Faraday meets Desmond in the past, the Oceanic are part of the Dharma Initiative, Sayid meets Ben as a child, Locke meets Richard and Widmore.... ALL things which did not originally happen in the past but have now occurred.
really, nothing can change.... think about it; it's like a circle.
faraday met desmond in the past, yes - but that happened the first time, too (it's improper to call it the "first time" because there are an infinite number of times potentially that you could say something happened in the past).
everything else you mentioned already happened as well. in fact, it's impossible for you to say that anything didn't happen the first time, unless you saw it the first time (again, improper to say "first time"), cause otherewise you wouldn't know if it actually changed.
here's an example:
remember when sawyer went back in time and saw claire giving birth... remember he didn't make a sound or anything and just watched behind he bushes as claire gave birth? what i am saying is that back three years ago when we watched claire give birth, a futuristic sawyer was there watching... we just didn't know it (and for all i know, the writers didn't even know it).
listen, if ben is actually dead, i will admit i'm wrong. but he won't be dead, not because the show can't afford to lose him, or the island won't let him go, but because it's impossible... and the writers of the show understand how this whole time travel thing theoretically works, and they won't mess it up.
so, it's possible that some of our oceanic people might actually die when ben kills everyone with gas later on if they remain with the dharma initiative... i dunno, we'll see.
Like Farraday said, you can't change the past. I'm beginning to think that it means you can't change the outcome of the past. You may be able to change events but the outcome will be the same.
no, nothing... NOTHING... can ever change. ben won't die; it's impossible.... it'll be interesting to see how he lives (cause he looked pretty freaking dead), but but little ben will live... and he will grow up and watch as oceanic flight 815 crashes onto the island with jack and company.
You're talking about the Grandfather Paradox. I think the multiverse or timeline branching are more plausible theories than the whole 'Back to the Future' way of thinking. I wouldn't doubt that Lost would go that way, where they can change the past, but it won't affect THEIR past, since it's already happened. For instance, Ben won't just disappear or fade out of polaroids like Marty McFly, if it turns out he's killed. I'm pretty sure that view of time travel is somewhat outdated.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
i've tried reading thru this thread and it's just too massive
so i am posting this without knowing what's already been said and without knowing what each of your individual takes on the matter is. here are just a fraction of the thoughts i have about this season, so you can get an idea of where i'm coming from
1) Ben is not dead. the island will save him, just like it did Locke after he was shot by Ben.
2) the reason Hurley, Kate, Jack & Sawyer were the four 815ers taken at the end of season 2 is because they were there part of the DI in 1977. why exactly & to what purpose, i'm not entirely sure but it's not a coincidence they were the 4 picked. (that does lead to the question of why weren't Jin or Sayid kidnapped, and i'm choosing not to rack my brain too much about that part of it )
3) the giant 4-toed statue, the one we caught a brief glimpse of in episode 8 "LaFleur," is a monument to the Egyptian goddess Taweret (link). i'm not sure when or how the statue was destroyed, but its destruction is the reason women on the island aren't able to bear children anymore
4) Charlotte was able to speak Korean b/c Jin taught it to her
5) Christian has a connection from his past to the island, much like Charles Widmore, and his connection is very similar to Locke's. Christian was asked to leave the island and sacrifice himself and to bring his children back to it.
that's it for now... i'm sure i'll think of other things to add
Maybe Ben really will die (the island didn't heal his tumor like it healed John's legs) and that's, eventually, what will end the show because the plane won't crash and everyone will just go on with their lives like they would have had the original plane made it to LA. I dunno... just a thought.
Maybe Ben really will die (the island didn't healh his tumor like it healed John's legs) and that's, eventually, what will end the show because the plane won't crash and everyone will just go on with their lives like they would have had the original plane made it to LA. I dunno... just a thought.
Yeah, but when Ben had the tumor he was a jackass and the island didn't want to save him. I'm thinking the island will be a bit nicer to young Ben.
Maybe Ben really will die (the island didn't healh his tumor like it healed John's legs) and that's, eventually, what will end the show because the plane won't crash and everyone will just go on with their lives like they would have had the original plane made it to LA. I dunno... just a thought.
Yeah, but when Ben had the tumor he was a jackass and the island didn't want to save him. I'm thinking the island will be a bit nicer to young Ben.
I agree. Didn't Richard say to Locke a couple of seasons ago that we need a leader to remind us that we're here for more important reasons than novelty issues like fertility.
I have a feeling that island lost favor over time in the direction Ben's leadership was taking the Others and that's why the tumor wasn't healed. But now, Ben is still new and hasn't led the Others astray so he will be healed.
what are the rules/regulations about discussing the upcoming show? do we not b/c people choose to be surprised? is it allowed to speculate based on the previews?
what are the rules/regulations about discussing the upcoming show? do we not b/c people choose to be surprised? is it allowed to speculate based on the previews?
Speculation, theories, jokes, rants, and tacky pictures all are permissible. You will find all in abundance here. There usually isn't much discussion right before an episode but lots right after. For instance, someone had already mentioned the Egyptian goddess Tawaret after there had been much wondering about the statue. You made some other very good observations which is why I think you'll enjoy the discussions here.
The only thing truly not allowed here is SPOILERS. Links to other Lost sites or blogs are OK with fair warning about what they contain.
Beyond that it's a free for all. We are all fans of the show but we have plenty of fun with it. You will find that I think that Jack is an epic douche and that I never miss an opportunity to say so. I hated Charlotte and thought she took her sweet time about dying. I like Miles the angsty ghost whisperer and although I used to be a Skater I think Kate has become pretty obnoxious so I guess now I'm a Julawyer. This season has been kind of uneven as far as I'm concerned but I still think Lost is just about the coolest show ever. :ugeek:
Crazy so far. That is why Ben gave Michael the list of Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley....he remembered them from his past as child.
Such a kickass season!
......or not (just finished the episode). Got ahead of myself a little bit there, should have finished the episode first.
Still think they list had significance to the fact the 4 of them were present back with the Dharma Initiative.
PJ: 2003 Mansfield: July 2 2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29 2005 Montreal: Sept 15 2006 Boston: May 24 & 25 2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28, 2010 Boston: May 17 2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25, 2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7
completely agree jervin! also, i think we figured out why Ben thinks that Juliette is his. he remembers her trying to save his life :shock:
all in all, though, i thought this was a very "meh" episode. other than the exchanges between Miles & Hurley ("i'm checking to see if i'm disappearing" ), the meet up of Sawyer/Kate with Alpert & the Others, and Locke welcoming Ben back to "the land of the living" i was very underwhelmed with this episode as a whole.
i do not understand why Kate felt the need to bare the O-6's secrets to her fellow con-artist. i just felt like a lot of the stuff they showed from Kate's past was unnecessary. there were no revelations like there was with Sayid's episode last week. it was just bland, imo
one last thing, i just want to address the question that Hurley stumped Miles on: "why didn't Ben remember Sayid while he was being tortured in the hatch?"... how do we know that Ben DIDN'T remember?
one last thing, i just want to address the question that Hurley stumped Miles on: "why didn't Ben remember Sayid while he was being tortured in the hatch?"... how do we know that Ben DIDN'T remember?
They addressed that question at the end of the episode:
When Richard takes Ben he says that if he takes him that Ben will lose his innocence and not remember ever being shot.
one last thing, i just want to address the question that Hurley stumped Miles on: "why didn't Ben remember Sayid while he was being tortured in the hatch?"... how do we know that Ben DIDN'T remember?
They addressed that question at the end of the episode:
When Richard takes Ben he says that if he takes him that Ben will lose his innocence and not remember ever being shot.
i must've missed the part about him not remembering... gonna have to watch it again i guess
one last thing, i just want to address the question that Hurley stumped Miles on: "why didn't Ben remember Sayid while he was being tortured in the hatch?"... how do we know that Ben DIDN'T remember?
They addressed that question at the end of the episode:
When Richard takes Ben he says that if he takes him that Ben will lose his innocence and not remember ever being shot.
i must've missed the part about him not remembering... gonna have to watch it again i guess
No worries, we all miss things. That's what's great about catching up via this thread.
I thought it was a good episode, we learned that it seems Jack and Sayid are both invovled in turning Ben into what he becomes later on life. And I guess Sawyer and Kate, but not as much. We saw how much Alpert is invovled and next week we learn more about the temple it seems. The Kate flashback I think was more to show what happened to Aaron and kind of break apart her and Sawyer. Jack gave her a nice stomach punch as well. And I still beleive ben did not think Locke would be brought back to life on the Island.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
Yeah looks like Sayid got pwned, thinking he was gonna prevent Benry from becoming an evil monster, when in fact he ends up causing his transformation from sweet chicken salad making kid to diabolical ham baking devilspawn.
Comments
Ben is essentially invincible until 2007 (present).
I just want to know what happened to Faraday!!
He wouldn't have recognition because that happened before the Losties went back in time. The whole future would be different based on what is happening now.
no, nothing... NOTHING... can ever change. ben won't die; it's impossible.... it'll be interesting to see how he lives (cause he looked pretty freaking dead), but but little ben will live... and he will grow up and watch as oceanic flight 815 crashes onto the island with jack and company.
ummm yes things CAN change... Faraday meets Desmond in the past, the Oceanic are part of the Dharma Initiative, Sayid meets Ben as a child, Locke meets Richard and Widmore.... ALL things which did not originally happen in the past but have now occurred.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
really, nothing can change.... think about it; it's like a circle.
faraday met desmond in the past, yes - but that happened the first time, too (it's improper to call it the "first time" because there are an infinite number of times potentially that you could say something happened in the past).
everything else you mentioned already happened as well. in fact, it's impossible for you to say that anything didn't happen the first time, unless you saw it the first time (again, improper to say "first time"), cause otherewise you wouldn't know if it actually changed.
here's an example:
remember when sawyer went back in time and saw claire giving birth... remember he didn't make a sound or anything and just watched behind he bushes as claire gave birth? what i am saying is that back three years ago when we watched claire give birth, a futuristic sawyer was there watching... we just didn't know it (and for all i know, the writers didn't even know it).
listen, if ben is actually dead, i will admit i'm wrong. but he won't be dead, not because the show can't afford to lose him, or the island won't let him go, but because it's impossible... and the writers of the show understand how this whole time travel thing theoretically works, and they won't mess it up.
so, it's possible that some of our oceanic people might actually die when ben kills everyone with gas later on if they remain with the dharma initiative... i dunno, we'll see.
You're talking about the Grandfather Paradox. I think the multiverse or timeline branching are more plausible theories than the whole 'Back to the Future' way of thinking. I wouldn't doubt that Lost would go that way, where they can change the past, but it won't affect THEIR past, since it's already happened. For instance, Ben won't just disappear or fade out of polaroids like Marty McFly, if it turns out he's killed. I'm pretty sure that view of time travel is somewhat outdated.
nowadays hits you when you're young
so i am posting this without knowing what's already been said and without knowing what each of your individual takes on the matter is. here are just a fraction of the thoughts i have about this season, so you can get an idea of where i'm coming from
1) Ben is not dead. the island will save him, just like it did Locke after he was shot by Ben.
2) the reason Hurley, Kate, Jack & Sawyer were the four 815ers taken at the end of season 2 is because they were there part of the DI in 1977. why exactly & to what purpose, i'm not entirely sure but it's not a coincidence they were the 4 picked. (that does lead to the question of why weren't Jin or Sayid kidnapped, and i'm choosing not to rack my brain too much about that part of it
3) the giant 4-toed statue, the one we caught a brief glimpse of in episode 8 "LaFleur," is a monument to the Egyptian goddess Taweret (link). i'm not sure when or how the statue was destroyed, but its destruction is the reason women on the island aren't able to bear children anymore
4) Charlotte was able to speak Korean b/c Jin taught it to her
5) Christian has a connection from his past to the island, much like Charles Widmore, and his connection is very similar to Locke's. Christian was asked to leave the island and sacrifice himself and to bring his children back to it.
that's it for now... i'm sure i'll think of other things to add
good call!
I agree. Didn't Richard say to Locke a couple of seasons ago that we need a leader to remind us that we're here for more important reasons than novelty issues like fertility.
I have a feeling that island lost favor over time in the direction Ben's leadership was taking the Others and that's why the tumor wasn't healed. But now, Ben is still new and hasn't led the Others astray so he will be healed.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
Based on your other comments I'd say you've come to the right place and should add much to the discussion. Welcome!
what are the rules/regulations about discussing the upcoming show? do we not b/c people choose to be surprised? is it allowed to speculate based on the previews?
The only thing truly not allowed here is SPOILERS. Links to other Lost sites or blogs are OK with fair warning about what they contain.
Beyond that it's a free for all. We are all fans of the show but we have plenty of fun with it. You will find that I think that Jack is an epic douche and that I never miss an opportunity to say so.
Such a kickass season!
......or not (just finished the episode). Got ahead of myself a little bit there, should have finished the episode first.
Still think they list had significance to the fact the 4 of them were present back with the Dharma Initiative.
2003 Mansfield: July 2
2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29
2005 Montreal: Sept 15
2006 Boston: May 24 & 25
2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28,
2010 Boston: May 17
2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25,
2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7
EV Solo: Boston 8/2/08, Boston 6/16/11
all in all, though, i thought this was a very "meh" episode. other than the exchanges between Miles & Hurley ("i'm checking to see if i'm disappearing"
i do not understand why Kate felt the need to bare the O-6's secrets to her fellow con-artist. i just felt like a lot of the stuff they showed from Kate's past was unnecessary. there were no revelations like there was with Sayid's episode last week. it was just bland, imo
one last thing, i just want to address the question that Hurley stumped Miles on: "why didn't Ben remember Sayid while he was being tortured in the hatch?"... how do we know that Ben DIDN'T remember?
They addressed that question at the end of the episode:
When Richard takes Ben he says that if he takes him that Ben will lose his innocence and not remember ever being shot.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
i must've missed the part about him not remembering... gonna have to watch it again i guess
No worries, we all miss things. That's what's great about catching up via this thread.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
Also glad to see the Sawyer and Juliet relationship still going strong.
Next week's preview looks interesting. I'm interested to see what happens now that Ben "broke the rules.".
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
hehehehehe............
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....