+1 - Got home from the game before 10pm - that's gotta be a record!
What's this deal with all this Abreu crap? The Phils have been winners ever since that trade, and the Yanks didn't win it until they got rid of him. He's a loser, and good riddance. I don't think Cashman was ever gonna trade Phil Hughes. Now let's stop living in the past.
'twas an off-handed comment by me about a 4 year old trade that the fixer could not let go of. point was we could have gotten more than we did if we waited longer to pull the trigger.
dude, you're the one that said the phils could have gotten phil hughes in the abreu deal. you are good at posting funny posts like that
gillick's hands were tied when trying to deal that piece of garbage. it's a miracle he got any team to take him off the phils hands. he got low grade prospects back...he did the best he could. just getting rid of abreu was an accomplishment in and of itself.
that trade wasn't about who the phils got back...it was about getting rid of that horrendous contract that ed wade gave abreu.
'twas an off-handed comment by me about a 4 year old trade that the fixer could not let go of. point was we could have gotten more than we did if we waited longer to pull the trigger.
dude, you're the one that said the phils could have gotten phil hughes in the abreu deal. you are good at posting funny posts like that
gillick's hands were tied when trying to deal that piece of garbage. it's a miracle he got any team to take him off the phils hands. he got low grade prospects back...he did the best he could. just getting rid of abreu was an accomplishment in and of itself.
that trade wasn't about who the phils got back...it was about getting rid of that horrendous contract that ed wade gave abreu.
now go play in the eagles thread where you belong
well i posted 3 articles from 4 years ago that supported my argument. again--everything in this world is not black and white, my friend. it would have been prudent to have waited till the deadline to see if we could have gotten more back. if you don't want to believe it, that's fine. there are plenty of people who still think there are wmd's in iraq too and i would not be surprised if you're one of them.
how bout howard and his 3 meaningless rbi's so far today?
how bout howard and his 3 meaningless rbi's so far today?
GO. PHILS.
that 2nd ball should have been an error. howard also K'd 3 times...why any pitcher throws him anything straight is beyond me. the RBI are meaningless.
honestly, I'm tired of arguing with you bro. we disagree on 90% of baseball related topics and that's fine. I'm sure the others in this thread are sick of our nonsense. I'm offering a truce...just please think about your posts before you submit them
he's far from the best but all the dude does anymore is go 6+,ill take that from my 5th starter all year no problem.
06/05 SD W 6-2 9.0 7 2 2 0 1 1 17 15 34 98 W(6-5) -- 3.98
05/30 @FLA L 0-1 6.0 4 1 1 0 2 2 9 11 25 96 L(5-5) -- 4.26
05/25 @NYM L 0-8 5.0 7 4 4 0 2 0 12 10 24 104 L(5-4) -- 4.55
05/19 CHC L 1-4 7.0 4 2 2 0 1 7 9 9 26 109 L(5-3) -- 4.30
05/14 @MIL W 9-5 6.1 5 5 4 3 3 3 7 14 27 111 W(5-2) -- 4.57
05/07 ATL W 7-0 9.0 2 0 0 0 0 5 10 13 28 105 W(4-2) -- 4.39
05/02 NYM W 11-5 6.0 6 5 5 2 0 2 10 12 25 99 W(3-2) -- 5.70
04/27 @SF L 2-6 6.0 10 4 4 2 1 2 7 16 27 101 L(2-2) -- 5.25
04/22 @ATL W 8-3 6.0 4 2 0 0 2 4 10 9 26 101 W(2-1) -- 5.00
04/17 FLA L 1-5 6.0 6 5 5 1 1 7 12 5 25 89 L(1-1) -- 7.50
Complete Game Log
He keeps lowering that era,once again i disagree with you and once again i'm correct.
talk to me next week after he faces the yanks
are you really backing jamie moyer?? seriously
the phils should try to trade moyer when happ comes back. that's probably a pipe dream...I think kendrick will be the one dropped from the rotation. you never know though...maybe they could find a team dumb enough to take moyer of their hands
The funny thing is before the season I wanted him gone. And after his first couple starts I really wanted him gone. But there comes a time when u have to actually stop being a hater a give the man his do. For any true baseball fan out there u have no choice but to respect and admire what this man is doing out there. All he does is compete and give his team a chance to win and that's all u can ask for especially from a 45yr old pitcher. And if anyone can't see that or admit that then well your clueless.
The funny thing is before the season I wanted him gone. And after his first couple starts I really wanted him gone. But there comes a time when u have to actually stop being a hater a give the man his do. For any true baseball fan out there u have no choice but to respect and admire what this man is doing out there. All he does is compete and give his team a chance to win and that's all u can ask for especially from a 45yr old pitcher. And if anyone can't see that or admit that then well your clueless.
your clueless...nice.
he has pitched OK this year. and I do respect what he's done in his career. I think he's gonna return to the mean soon...it's just a matter of time.
The funny thing is before the season I wanted him gone. And after his first couple starts I really wanted him gone. But there comes a time when u have to actually stop being a hater a give the man his do. For any true baseball fan out there u have no choice but to respect and admire what this man is doing out there. All he does is compete and give his team a chance to win and that's all u can ask for especially from a 45yr old pitcher. And if anyone can't see that or admit that then well your clueless.
your clueless...nice.
he has pitched OK this year. and I do respect what he's done in his career. I think he's gonna return to the mean soon...it's just a matter of time.
Never called anyone by name clueless. Even if he returns to being bad he's given us more then anyone could have asked for.Your always so negative your hatered makes me suprised your a phillie fan.You bad mouth an amazing power hitter and one of the most clutch players in history,all the time.
The funny thing is before the season I wanted him gone. And after his first couple starts I really wanted him gone. But there comes a time when u have to actually stop being a hater a give the man his do. For any true baseball fan out there u have no choice but to respect and admire what this man is doing out there. All he does is compete and give his team a chance to win and that's all u can ask for especially from a 45yr old pitcher. And if anyone can't see that or admit that then well your clueless.
your clueless...nice.
he has pitched OK this year. and I do respect what he's done in his career. I think he's gonna return to the mean soon...it's just a matter of time.
Never called anyone by name clueless. Even if he returns to being bad he's given us more then anyone could have asked for.Your always so negative your hatered makes me suprised your a phillie fan.You bad mouth an amazing power hitter and one of the most clutch players in history,all the time.
it's you're clueless was my point...not your clueless. your posts are tough to understand.
I didn't know it was a rule that you had to love every player on a team in order to be a fan. I think ryan howard is the most overrated (and definitely the most overpaid) player in baseball. And I think moyer stinks. that doesn't mean I'm not a fan, it just means I'm realistic.
You might be the most clueless person in this thread. With your horrible reasons or sabermatics that says the best or 2nd best power hitter in the game the last 4yrs is over raided. Or a pitcher who gives us 6plus almost every game sucks. And that pitcher is a 45 year old number 5 pitcher. I believe that same horrible pitcher is 2nd in wins on the club.So if I'm the one who's clueless then you must be braindead. You can keep spreading bad stats are horrible views it makes me laugh. You're right not everyone has to like every player but your hating on 2 of the most constant players we've had this year. But in a game were stats matter the most they don't to u and I'm clueless lol.
You might be the most clueless person in this thread. With your horrible reasons or sabermatics that says the best or 2nd best power hitter in the game the last 4yrs is over raided. Or a pitcher who gives us 6plus almost every game sucks. And that pitcher is a 45 year old number 5 pitcher. I believe that same horrible pitcher is 2nd in wins on the club.So if I'm the one who's clueless then you must be braindead. You can keep spreading bad stats are horrible views it makes me laugh. You're right not everyone has to like every player but your hating on 2 of the most constant players we've had this year. But in a game were stats matter the most they don't to u and I'm clueless lol.
relax dude, I never called you clueless. I just said your grammar was awful and your posts are hard to read.
you like howard, I don't. you look at stats like RBI and wins and I know that it's not even worth debating with you.
you are one of those fans that loved chris coste and sal fasano aren't you?
You might be the most clueless person in this thread. With your horrible reasons or sabermatics that says the best or 2nd best power hitter in the game the last 4yrs is over raided. Or a pitcher who gives us 6plus almost every game sucks. And that pitcher is a 45 year old number 5 pitcher. I believe that same horrible pitcher is 2nd in wins on the club.So if I'm the one who's clueless then you must be braindead. You can keep spreading bad stats are horrible views it makes me laugh. You're right not everyone has to like every player but your hating on 2 of the most constant players we've had this year. But in a game were stats matter the most they don't to u and I'm clueless lol.
relax dude, I never called you clueless. I just said your grammar was awful and your posts are hard to read.
you like howard, I don't. you look at stats like RBI and wins and I know that it's not even worth debating with you.
you are one of those fans that loved chris coste and sal fasano aren't you?
And like I've said before I'm on my blackberry at work writing so excuse me if my grammar and spelling are off.You are very correct wins are a very important stat to me. As for chris coste he was a good backup here. He could catch or play 1st when howard need a break.so yes I was a coste fan,as for sal never was a fan.Ive know many people like you in my time. Never happy and think they know everything.I'm sure your a cool dude outside of here but man your views give me a headache.
You might be the most clueless person in this thread. With your horrible reasons or sabermatics that says the best or 2nd best power hitter in the game the last 4yrs is over raided. Or a pitcher who gives us 6plus almost every game sucks. And that pitcher is a 45 year old number 5 pitcher. I believe that same horrible pitcher is 2nd in wins on the club.So if I'm the one who's clueless then you must be braindead. You can keep spreading bad stats are horrible views it makes me laugh. You're right not everyone has to like every player but your hating on 2 of the most constant players we've had this year. But in a game were stats matter the most they don't to u and I'm clueless lol.
relax dude, I never called you clueless. I just said your grammar was awful and your posts are hard to read.
you like howard, I don't. you look at stats like RBI and wins and I know that it's not even worth debating with you.
you are one of those fans that loved chris coste and sal fasano aren't you?
And like I've said before I'm on my blackberry at work writing so excuse me if my grammar and spelling are off.You are very correct wins are a very important stat to me. As for chris coste he was a good backup here. He could catch or play 1st when howard need a break.so yes I was a coste fan,as for sal never was a fan.Ive know many people like you in my time. Never happy and think they know everything.I'm sure your a cool dude outside of here but man your views give me a headache.
weird, I can type on my phone and have no problem differentiating your and you're. If I spell youre it even adds the apostrophe for me.
I will never be a fan that loves every guy on the team or likes every move the phils management makes. What's wrong with that? You are ripping me for not liking a couple of players on the team. Like I said, I didn't know that liking every player and move the phils make was a prerequisite to being a fan.
we disagree about howard and moyer...now let's end this nonsense and talk about more important stuff. like this week's draft. I'm hoping stetson allie falls to the phils in round 1
this is good stuff. this dude was drafted as a pitcher, but chose to play OF instead. apparently he's blazing fast...still only 19 years old. sounds like he needs some work with lopes
Anthony Gose, OF, Philadelphia Phillies (High-A Lakewood)
Another player who is starting to see his tools click is Gose, who led the minor leagues with 76 stolen bases last year but also showed that he had a long way to go with his approach, as well as a bit of raw power that simply never showed up in games. He got off to a slow start in the tough Florida State League, but he's coming on of late, going 10-for-20 in his past six games, including his 10th triple of the year to raise his averages to .277/.345/.424 in 57 games. His overall game is maturing, as he's showing a more patient approach and also driving balls more, but something has gone sour in the stolen base department, as he's been caught in five of his past six attempts and 17 times on the season in 38 attempts.
What I want is for Jimmy to back in this fucking lineup, and for the 3-4-5 guys to get their dicks out of each other's asses.
this is why I'm not worried. the bats are too talented to struggle for long. who would have thought that the pitching would be keeping this team afloat?
What I want is for Jimmy to back in this fucking lineup, and for the 3-4-5 guys to get their dicks out of each other's asses.
this is why I'm not worried. the bats are too talented to struggle for long. who would have thought that the pitching would be keeping this team afloat?
Dude, first in the division, 4th in the league, 5 in the majors. THAT is ridiculous.
The bats have to come around, but there's certain aspects of each batter that's bothering me - Howard looks like he wants to hit for average, and that's taking away from his power. Werth was hitting .330, which was an anomaly, and Utley - I don't what the fuck is up with him. Don't think he's hurt. Like I said before, what makes this terrible is the fact that without Jimmy in this lineup things are terribly off-kilter. Not a great lead-off guy in the conventional sense, but it boasts the diversity of this lineup. Without him, it screws everything up, and the opposing team can narrow their scouting of this lineup. Especially when Polanco was out was horrifying - that's when the other team could cross off worrying about 4 of the 9 hitters in the lineup. Hopefully this shit gets turned around. And fast, because this week starts a tough stretch of games - especially for these jerks.
What I want is for Jimmy to back in this fucking lineup, and for the 3-4-5 guys to get their dicks out of each other's asses.
this is why I'm not worried. the bats are too talented to struggle for long. who would have thought that the pitching would be keeping this team afloat?
Dude, first in the division, 4th in the league, 5 in the majors. THAT is ridiculous.
The bats have to come around, but there's certain aspects of each batter that's bothering me - Howard looks like he wants to hit for average, and that's taking away from his power. Werth was hitting .330, which was an anomaly, and Utley - I don't what the fuck is up with him. Don't think he's hurt. Like I said before, what makes this terrible is the fact that without Jimmy in this lineup things are terribly off-kilter. Not a great lead-off guy in the conventional sense, but it boasts the diversity of this lineup. Without him, it screws everything up, and the opposing team can narrow their scouting of this lineup. Especially when Polanco was out was horrifying - that's when the other team could cross off worrying about 4 of the 9 hitters in the lineup. Hopefully this shit gets turned around. And fast, because this week starts a tough stretch of games - especially for these jerks.
the thing with getting rollins back is that they can move victorino back down to 6. ibanez looks like he's swinging a 40 ounce bat, which is my only cause for concern with the lineup. If he's hitting 7, this lineup looks pretty scary. the offense will come around
howard has to be more patient. he is swinging at the first pitch he sees more than he ever has. and even when he gets ahead in the count, he will flail at breaking balls outside of the zone. a MLB hitter of his caliber has to be smarter than that. you get ahead 2-0 or 3-1, you should be sitting on a pitch in a spot, not waving at breaking balls in the dirt.
utley must have picked up a strand of AIDS from moyer. he's such a beast he will cure himself though.
werth...not sure what happened to him. maybe he's feeling the pressure of impending free agency. who knows? I'm not worried though...he will be fine too.
Need a win tonight with the 2 weeks they have coming up...probably the toughest stretch in the schedule
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
how bout howard and his 3 meaningless rbi's so far today?
GO. PHILS.
that 2nd ball should have been an error. howard also K'd 3 times...why any pitcher throws him anything straight is beyond me. the RBI are meaningless.
honestly, I'm tired of arguing with you bro. we disagree on 90% of baseball related topics and that's fine. I'm sure the others in this thread are sick of our nonsense. I'm offering a truce...just please think about your posts before you submit them
considering your man crush on andy reid, we seem to disagree a lot in the football thread too.
and think about my posts? nice. yeah maybe next time i'll cite 4 articles to support my argument. :roll:
this is why I'm not worried. the bats are too talented to struggle for long. who would have thought that the pitching would be keeping this team afloat?
Dude, first in the division, 4th in the league, 5 in the majors. THAT is ridiculous.
The bats have to come around, but there's certain aspects of each batter that's bothering me - Howard looks like he wants to hit for average, and that's taking away from his power. Werth was hitting .330, which was an anomaly, and Utley - I don't what the fuck is up with him. Don't think he's hurt. Like I said before, what makes this terrible is the fact that without Jimmy in this lineup things are terribly off-kilter. Not a great lead-off guy in the conventional sense, but it boasts the diversity of this lineup. Without him, it screws everything up, and the opposing team can narrow their scouting of this lineup. Especially when Polanco was out was horrifying - that's when the other team could cross off worrying about 4 of the 9 hitters in the lineup. Hopefully this shit gets turned around. And fast, because this week starts a tough stretch of games - especially for these jerks.
the thing with getting rollins back is that they can move victorino back down to 6. ibanez looks like he's swinging a 40 ounce bat, which is my only cause for concern with the lineup. If he's hitting 7, this lineup looks pretty scary. the offense will come around
howard has to be more patient. he is swinging at the first pitch he sees more than he ever has. and even when he gets ahead in the count, he will flail at breaking balls outside of the zone. a MLB hitter of his caliber has to be smarter than that. you get ahead 2-0 or 3-1, you should be sitting on a pitch in a spot, not waving at breaking balls in the dirt.
utley must have picked up a strand of AIDS from moyer. he's such a beast he will cure himself though.
werth...not sure what happened to him. maybe he's feeling the pressure of impending free agency. who knows? I'm not worried though...he will be fine too.
Need a win tonight with the 2 weeks they have coming up...probably the toughest stretch in the schedule
That's what I wanna see - Raul in the 7 hole. Ya gotta put him there. You have to, when Jimmy comes back. He looks like he's switching bats with every at-bat. And not that I'm Milt Thompson, but if you look at his swing he's holding the bat stronger with his top hand instead of using his wrists and driving through the ball, as he did last year. He looks too tense in his swing, he used to look extremely loose. And he's just not turning on fastballs, though he had some okay AB's yesterday.
Howard looks to worried about average - you're there to do one thing big man, and that's what they paid you for. Sorry to say it, but home runs are what get cash and that's what he needs to do.
Werth looks God awful - that one game last week where he struck out FIVE TIMES. Yeesh. Utley and Werth should just concentrate on going the other way and up the middle with the ball right now. To get your swing back you need to start by going opposite-to-center on your swings. Then, you can worry about pulling the shit out of the ball.
the thing with getting rollins back is that they can move victorino back down to 6. ibanez looks like he's swinging a 40 ounce bat, which is my only cause for concern with the lineup. If he's hitting 7, this lineup looks pretty scary. the offense will come around
howard has to be more patient. he is swinging at the first pitch he sees more than he ever has. and even when he gets ahead in the count, he will flail at breaking balls outside of the zone. a MLB hitter of his caliber has to be smarter than that. you get ahead 2-0 or 3-1, you should be sitting on a pitch in a spot, not waving at breaking balls in the dirt.
utley must have picked up a strand of AIDS from moyer. he's such a beast he will cure himself though.
werth...not sure what happened to him. maybe he's feeling the pressure of impending free agency. who knows? I'm not worried though...he will be fine too.
Need a win tonight with the 2 weeks they have coming up...probably the toughest stretch in the schedule
That's what I wanna see - Raul in the 7 hole. Ya gotta put him there. You have to, when Jimmy comes back. He looks like he's switching bats with every at-bat. And not that I'm Milt Thompson, but if you look at his swing he's holding the bat stronger with his top hand instead of using his wrists and driving through the ball, as he did last year. He looks too tense in his swing, he used to look extremely loose. And he's just not turning on fastballs, though he had some okay AB's yesterday.
Howard looks to worried about average - you're there to do one thing big man, and that's what they paid you for. Sorry to say it, but home runs are what get cash and that's what he needs to do.
Werth looks God awful - that one game last week where he struck out FIVE TIMES. Yeesh. Utley and Werth should just concentrate on going the other way and up the middle with the ball right now. To get your swing back you need to start by going opposite-to-center on your swings. Then, you can worry about pulling the shit out of the ball.
Also, Leslie Gudel looks like Grim Death.
wait....you're not milt thompson?
leslie gudel has looked like that since she started here. how she lasted as long as she has is beyond me.
and you know what raul ibanez looks like to me? an old dog on his last legs...
Still no timetable for Rollins' return
Jimmy Rollins was eligible to be activated from the disabled list yesterday. Instead, he began making preparations to return to Clearwater, Fla., where he will continue his rehabilitation program when the Phillies depart for a six-game interleague road trip through Boston and New York City.
In other words, don't expect him back any time soon.
Manager Charlie Manuel indicated a Rollins return was unlikely to occur within the next week, and the short stop himself made it sound like it will take longer than that. Rollins, who returned to the disabled list on May 22 after re-injuring his strained calf while running to first in the sixth inning of a 5-1 win over the Red Sox, has been jogging and taking batting practice, but has yet to sprint or simulate running the bases.
Rollins said he had no idea about a potential return date, or how long the injury might linger.
"I guess it's possible it could linger my whole life," Rollins said. "I talked to (ESPN analyst and former major leaguer Aaron Boone), and he said he blew his out a couple times and it doesn't bother him to the point where he feels like he is going to injure it, but he wakes up and sometimes with a reminder that he did it once. I talked to Shane, talked to Dobbs. Shane (Victorino) still does all of his work, and that was two years ago. (Greg) Dobbs said the same thing. Every once in awhile it lets you know you pulled it."
So how long are we talking? A week? A couple weeks? A month? A couple months?
Is the picture that hazy?
"It better not be a month," Rollins said. "But basically" it is that unclear.
Time to Release Raul
Posted by Corey Seidman, Sun, June 06, 2010 10:37 PM
Raul Ibanez is killing the Phillies. I know, I know, there are a number of Phillies that are “killing the Phillies” right now: Jayson Werth, Chase Utley, the shortstop du jour, Greg Dobbs, etc.
But the difference is that the aforementioned players (with the exception of Dobbs) have contributed at some point this year and/or will contribute in the future.
Werth is in one of his “can’t-hit-any-pitch-that-any-righty-throws-me” modes, and Utley is experiencing an uncharacteristic early season slump, but both are talented players in their primes that will assuredly snap out of these funks and go back to raking.
Juan Castro is a cheap utility man and Wilson Valdez is an even cheaper utility man. Defensively, each has done an adequate job filling in for Jimmy Rollins, but they are the walking definitions of “replacement player.”
(Dobbs is 1-for-21 as a pinch-hitter this year, was 9-for-54 in that role last year, but nobody wants to give up on him because he had a good run as a bench bat in 2008. Cuz, ya know, we have SO MUCH evidence to show that 2008 was the real Greg Dobbs, and every other year of his career wasn’t. Whatever, that’s a topic for another day.)
Unlike the other slumping Phillies, Ibanez has contributed absolutely nothing since June 1, 2009.
Raul endeared himself to this fanbase last year by putting together a miraculous April and May, but has hit .234 since with one homer every 30 plate appearances. Wanna take a look at some more ugly numbers?
Ibanez’ slugging percentage in 2010 is .371, lower than David Eckstein, Jeff Keppinger, Will Venable, Jeff Francoeur, and Gaby Sanchez.
He is 85th in the NL in batting average, 65th in on-base percentage, and 70th in slugging percentage.
His OPS+ this year is 89 (100 is league average.)
Ibanez has eight multi-hit games this season (played 54.)
Ibby has been worth 0.2 wins BELOW replacement, and his WAR is 20th out of the 24 NL leftfielders with 100 or more plate appearances
And to top it all off, Ibanez has been the fourth worst defensive leftfielder in major league baseball this season – ahead of only Carlos Lee, Ryan Braun, and Lastings Milledge.
We’re not imagining his struggles.
From a baseball standpoint – and from a logical standpoint - there is no reason Raul Ibanez deserves to play everyday on a contending team. He has been awful at the plate and terrible in the field. Yet he continues to bat sixth everyday while the Phillies top prospect, who also happens to be a corner outfielder, is putting on a clinic in the pitcher-friendly Eastern League.
Domonic Brown is hitting .313/.382/.587 with 10 homers and 33 RBI for Reading. His .969 OPS leads the Eastern League, his .313 batting average is fifth, his ten homers are sixth, as are his 105 total bases. And I reiterate, Brown has done so in a pitcher’s league in which the collective ERA of the twelve teams is 4.06.
Releasing Raul
For weeks, I’ve been trying to figure out a peaceful solution to this problem. Ruben Amaro finds himself in a self-inflicted predicament, because Ibanez’ full no-trade clause all-but prevents the Phillies from sending him away and eating salary.
(Honestly, it wouldn’t matter if Ibby didn’t have a full NTC, because his age and lack of value would have been enough to make reluctant all 29 potential trade partners.)
So release him. Cut ties with an expensive underperfomer. Amaro did so twice last year, when he released Geoff Jenkins and Adam Eaton. The Phils cut Jenkins while paying his $6.75M salary in ‘09, plus an additional $1.25M club buyout for 2010. Eaton, too, earned a hefty chunk of change upon his release – $9.15M to be exact. All told, the Phils paid $17.15M for the right to rid themselves of two underperformers with bad contracts.
Ibanez is in the second year of a three-year, $31.5M deal of which he has already collected about fourteen million dollars. Subtract 14 million from 31.5 million and what do you get? 17.5 million, or just about exactly the amount of dead money the Phillies gave out to Jenkins and Eaton last year.
Financially, releasing Ibanez is no worse than releasing those two, and while consecutive years of dead money may be hard for a GM to explain to his superiors, it’s better than paying a player to hurt your team.
Letting Go
This is not an overreaction. These are not the exagerrated words of a WIP caller. There is no impulse or emotion guiding my thought process. Ibanez has been a black hole in the Phillies lineup for a year, and if his two-month hot streak took place at any time other than his first two months here, none of us would feel much of an attachment to him.
Is there ANY logical reason to keep him? Let’s take a look at the possible counter-arguments to cutting ties with Ibanez.
1) “He was great last year, you can’t cut him”
Response: No he wasn’t. He had two great months, one horrible month, and three average months. Plus, last year doesn’t matter anyway. Ibanez is a year older now, and 38 year-olds don’t typically rejuvenate as seasons wear on. He’s had three more awful months this season and is providing less value than 19 other left fielders on the fifteen other NL teams.
Just as Dobbs’ 2008 was an apparition, Ibanez’ April-May 2009 was an unsustainable, fluky time period that we only believed in because it coincided with our introduction to him. Does it make any sense at all to put more stock into the 210 plate appearances in April-May ‘09 than in his 560 plate appearances since?
2) “He’s a veteran and a good clubhouse guy.”
Response: So was Ken Griffey Jr. before he retired. So is Nick Punto. So was Clay Condrey. And Tomas Perez. And I’m sure Kevin Sefcik enjoyed patting his teammates on the back. Can we talk about baseball, though? And not ponies and unicorns riding in fields of daisies?
3) “He’s making too much money. Can’t give up on him for that reason alone.”
Response: So, because he is still due about seventeen million dollars, you have to pay him that and allow him to hurt the Phillies by going 2-for-every-9, pulling up short on balls other outfielders would get to, and clogging up the basepaths?
Oliver Perez is making a similar amount of money with the Mets, and they finally had the sense to stop pitching him every fifth day. Things got so bad that they sent him on a phantom DL trip. There is absolutely no need to let a player’s contract handcuff you in more ways than one.
4) “Just designate Greg Dobbs for assignment and move Raul to the bench.”
Response: You could do that. But it would mean having a five man bench that consists of three outfielders: Ibanez, Ben Francisco, and Ross Gload. Sure, Gload can technically play first base, but how many times would you sit Ryan Howard in favor of Gload? Dobbs, despite all of his struggles, can still play a slightly-below-average first, second, third, left field, and right field.
Plus, releasing a player with $17M left on his contract is still more realistic than making that player a $17M pinch-hitter. You coerce Raul to waive his no-trade clause, and if he doesn’t imply, you give him the outright release. Let him spread his wings and fly back to Seattle, a team so desperately in need of an offensive upgrade that they would probably take him back.
5) “Domonic Brown isn’t ready to step in and play everyday in the major leagues.”
Response: What does he have left to prove? Does he have to take his .313/.382/.587 slash-line up to Triple-A and show that he can also hit against washed up former major league pitchers? The Eastern League and its 4.06 ERA is every bit as much of a test as anything the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs face.
Brown is a dynamic left-handed hitter with fleet feet and a much better glove than Ibanez. He is no less ready at this exact moment than he will be in March 2011.
Bringing Brown up and inserting him into the six-hole would add a much-needed spark, help break up the monotonous stagnance this lineup is prone to, and allow the Phillies to see what they have in him, in order to better judge what their move will be in the offseason (re: Jayson Werth.)
Final Word
I am not deeming Domonic Brown the savior to a team that has fallen to 11th in the NL in runs scored, nor am I saying that his wampum stick will definitively play in The Show.
I am merely explaining that anybody – literally…any replacement player – would be more valuable than Raul Ibanez right now, and when you couple the bleak outlook for Ibby with the fact that the Phils’ top prospect plays the same position, the answer is very simple.
If it’s not so simple to you, please give me one good reason the Phillies should continue to send out a slow, overmatched 38-year old corner outfielder who has done nothing in the last year other than bounce balls to the right side of the infield.
And no, “being a good guy,” or “being part of the 2009 NL Champs,” doesn’t count.
phils took the local kid jesse biddle in round 1. he has committed to oregon to play there next year, but apparently he's signable. disappointing...there were other names Allie, Renaudo, Castellanos, Workman, etc still available. disappointing...good thing about the baseball draft is that they still have 50+ picks left (they can take as many players as they want).
Comments
dude, you're the one that said the phils could have gotten phil hughes in the abreu deal. you are good at posting funny posts like that
gillick's hands were tied when trying to deal that piece of garbage. it's a miracle he got any team to take him off the phils hands. he got low grade prospects back...he did the best he could. just getting rid of abreu was an accomplishment in and of itself.
that trade wasn't about who the phils got back...it was about getting rid of that horrendous contract that ed wade gave abreu.
now go play in the eagles thread where you belong
he stinks
well i posted 3 articles from 4 years ago that supported my argument. again--everything in this world is not black and white, my friend. it would have been prudent to have waited till the deadline to see if we could have gotten more back. if you don't want to believe it, that's fine. there are plenty of people who still think there are wmd's in iraq too and i would not be surprised if you're one of them.
how bout howard and his 3 meaningless rbi's so far today?
GO. PHILS.
06/05 SD W 6-2 9.0 7 2 2 0 1 1 17 15 34 98 W(6-5) -- 3.98
05/30 @FLA L 0-1 6.0 4 1 1 0 2 2 9 11 25 96 L(5-5) -- 4.26
05/25 @NYM L 0-8 5.0 7 4 4 0 2 0 12 10 24 104 L(5-4) -- 4.55
05/19 CHC L 1-4 7.0 4 2 2 0 1 7 9 9 26 109 L(5-3) -- 4.30
05/14 @MIL W 9-5 6.1 5 5 4 3 3 3 7 14 27 111 W(5-2) -- 4.57
05/07 ATL W 7-0 9.0 2 0 0 0 0 5 10 13 28 105 W(4-2) -- 4.39
05/02 NYM W 11-5 6.0 6 5 5 2 0 2 10 12 25 99 W(3-2) -- 5.70
04/27 @SF L 2-6 6.0 10 4 4 2 1 2 7 16 27 101 L(2-2) -- 5.25
04/22 @ATL W 8-3 6.0 4 2 0 0 2 4 10 9 26 101 W(2-1) -- 5.00
04/17 FLA L 1-5 6.0 6 5 5 1 1 7 12 5 25 89 L(1-1) -- 7.50
Complete Game Log
He keeps lowering that era,once again i disagree with you and once again i'm correct.
that 2nd ball should have been an error. howard also K'd 3 times...why any pitcher throws him anything straight is beyond me. the RBI are meaningless.
honestly, I'm tired of arguing with you bro. we disagree on 90% of baseball related topics and that's fine. I'm sure the others in this thread are sick of our nonsense. I'm offering a truce...just please think about your posts before you submit them
talk to me next week after he faces the yanks
are you really backing jamie moyer?? seriously
the phils should try to trade moyer when happ comes back. that's probably a pipe dream...I think kendrick will be the one dropped from the rotation. you never know though...maybe they could find a team dumb enough to take moyer of their hands
your clueless...nice.
he has pitched OK this year. and I do respect what he's done in his career. I think he's gonna return to the mean soon...it's just a matter of time.
it's you're clueless was my point...not your clueless. your posts are tough to understand.
I didn't know it was a rule that you had to love every player on a team in order to be a fan. I think ryan howard is the most overrated (and definitely the most overpaid) player in baseball. And I think moyer stinks. that doesn't mean I'm not a fan, it just means I'm realistic.
relax dude, I never called you clueless. I just said your grammar was awful and your posts are hard to read.
you like howard, I don't. you look at stats like RBI and wins and I know that it's not even worth debating with you.
you are one of those fans that loved chris coste and sal fasano aren't you?
weird, I can type on my phone and have no problem differentiating your and you're. If I spell youre it even adds the apostrophe for me.
I will never be a fan that loves every guy on the team or likes every move the phils management makes. What's wrong with that? You are ripping me for not liking a couple of players on the team. Like I said, I didn't know that liking every player and move the phils make was a prerequisite to being a fan.
we disagree about howard and moyer...now let's end this nonsense and talk about more important stuff. like this week's draft. I'm hoping stetson allie falls to the phils in round 1
Anthony Gose, OF, Philadelphia Phillies (High-A Lakewood)
Another player who is starting to see his tools click is Gose, who led the minor leagues with 76 stolen bases last year but also showed that he had a long way to go with his approach, as well as a bit of raw power that simply never showed up in games. He got off to a slow start in the tough Florida State League, but he's coming on of late, going 10-for-20 in his past six games, including his 10th triple of the year to raise his averages to .277/.345/.424 in 57 games. His overall game is maturing, as he's showing a more patient approach and also driving balls more, but something has gone sour in the stolen base department, as he's been caught in five of his past six attempts and 17 times on the season in 38 attempts.
this is why I'm not worried. the bats are too talented to struggle for long. who would have thought that the pitching would be keeping this team afloat?
Dude, first in the division, 4th in the league, 5 in the majors. THAT is ridiculous.
The bats have to come around, but there's certain aspects of each batter that's bothering me - Howard looks like he wants to hit for average, and that's taking away from his power. Werth was hitting .330, which was an anomaly, and Utley - I don't what the fuck is up with him. Don't think he's hurt. Like I said before, what makes this terrible is the fact that without Jimmy in this lineup things are terribly off-kilter. Not a great lead-off guy in the conventional sense, but it boasts the diversity of this lineup. Without him, it screws everything up, and the opposing team can narrow their scouting of this lineup. Especially when Polanco was out was horrifying - that's when the other team could cross off worrying about 4 of the 9 hitters in the lineup. Hopefully this shit gets turned around. And fast, because this week starts a tough stretch of games - especially for these jerks.
the thing with getting rollins back is that they can move victorino back down to 6. ibanez looks like he's swinging a 40 ounce bat, which is my only cause for concern with the lineup. If he's hitting 7, this lineup looks pretty scary. the offense will come around
howard has to be more patient. he is swinging at the first pitch he sees more than he ever has. and even when he gets ahead in the count, he will flail at breaking balls outside of the zone. a MLB hitter of his caliber has to be smarter than that. you get ahead 2-0 or 3-1, you should be sitting on a pitch in a spot, not waving at breaking balls in the dirt.
utley must have picked up a strand of AIDS from moyer. he's such a beast he will cure himself though.
werth...not sure what happened to him. maybe he's feeling the pressure of impending free agency. who knows? I'm not worried though...he will be fine too.
Need a win tonight with the 2 weeks they have coming up...probably the toughest stretch in the schedule
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NUir3H4ODM
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
considering your man crush on andy reid, we seem to disagree a lot in the football thread too.
and think about my posts? nice. yeah maybe next time i'll cite 4 articles to support my argument. :roll:
god bless that kid
be nice to get our second series win tonight in the last god damned month. fucking blanton yesterday...era over 6.00...wtf???
gotta have this one tonight gentlemen. rest of the month is brutal...
GO PHILS.
That's what I wanna see - Raul in the 7 hole. Ya gotta put him there. You have to, when Jimmy comes back. He looks like he's switching bats with every at-bat. And not that I'm Milt Thompson, but if you look at his swing he's holding the bat stronger with his top hand instead of using his wrists and driving through the ball, as he did last year. He looks too tense in his swing, he used to look extremely loose. And he's just not turning on fastballs, though he had some okay AB's yesterday.
Howard looks to worried about average - you're there to do one thing big man, and that's what they paid you for. Sorry to say it, but home runs are what get cash and that's what he needs to do.
Werth looks God awful - that one game last week where he struck out FIVE TIMES. Yeesh. Utley and Werth should just concentrate on going the other way and up the middle with the ball right now. To get your swing back you need to start by going opposite-to-center on your swings. Then, you can worry about pulling the shit out of the ball.
Also, Leslie Gudel looks like Grim Death.
wait....you're not milt thompson?
leslie gudel has looked like that since she started here. how she lasted as long as she has is beyond me.
and you know what raul ibanez looks like to me? an old dog on his last legs...
I know, I know.
Still no timetable for Rollins' return
Jimmy Rollins was eligible to be activated from the disabled list yesterday. Instead, he began making preparations to return to Clearwater, Fla., where he will continue his rehabilitation program when the Phillies depart for a six-game interleague road trip through Boston and New York City.
In other words, don't expect him back any time soon.
Manager Charlie Manuel indicated a Rollins return was unlikely to occur within the next week, and the short stop himself made it sound like it will take longer than that. Rollins, who returned to the disabled list on May 22 after re-injuring his strained calf while running to first in the sixth inning of a 5-1 win over the Red Sox, has been jogging and taking batting practice, but has yet to sprint or simulate running the bases.
Rollins said he had no idea about a potential return date, or how long the injury might linger.
"I guess it's possible it could linger my whole life," Rollins said. "I talked to (ESPN analyst and former major leaguer Aaron Boone), and he said he blew his out a couple times and it doesn't bother him to the point where he feels like he is going to injure it, but he wakes up and sometimes with a reminder that he did it once. I talked to Shane, talked to Dobbs. Shane (Victorino) still does all of his work, and that was two years ago. (Greg) Dobbs said the same thing. Every once in awhile it lets you know you pulled it."
So how long are we talking? A week? A couple weeks? A month? A couple months?
Is the picture that hazy?
"It better not be a month," Rollins said. "But basically" it is that unclear.
Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phil ... z0qDBIvabM
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Posted by Corey Seidman, Sun, June 06, 2010 10:37 PM
Raul Ibanez is killing the Phillies. I know, I know, there are a number of Phillies that are “killing the Phillies” right now: Jayson Werth, Chase Utley, the shortstop du jour, Greg Dobbs, etc.
But the difference is that the aforementioned players (with the exception of Dobbs) have contributed at some point this year and/or will contribute in the future.
Werth is in one of his “can’t-hit-any-pitch-that-any-righty-throws-me” modes, and Utley is experiencing an uncharacteristic early season slump, but both are talented players in their primes that will assuredly snap out of these funks and go back to raking.
Juan Castro is a cheap utility man and Wilson Valdez is an even cheaper utility man. Defensively, each has done an adequate job filling in for Jimmy Rollins, but they are the walking definitions of “replacement player.”
(Dobbs is 1-for-21 as a pinch-hitter this year, was 9-for-54 in that role last year, but nobody wants to give up on him because he had a good run as a bench bat in 2008. Cuz, ya know, we have SO MUCH evidence to show that 2008 was the real Greg Dobbs, and every other year of his career wasn’t. Whatever, that’s a topic for another day.)
Unlike the other slumping Phillies, Ibanez has contributed absolutely nothing since June 1, 2009.
Raul endeared himself to this fanbase last year by putting together a miraculous April and May, but has hit .234 since with one homer every 30 plate appearances. Wanna take a look at some more ugly numbers?
Ibanez’ slugging percentage in 2010 is .371, lower than David Eckstein, Jeff Keppinger, Will Venable, Jeff Francoeur, and Gaby Sanchez.
He is 85th in the NL in batting average, 65th in on-base percentage, and 70th in slugging percentage.
His OPS+ this year is 89 (100 is league average.)
Ibanez has eight multi-hit games this season (played 54.)
Ibby has been worth 0.2 wins BELOW replacement, and his WAR is 20th out of the 24 NL leftfielders with 100 or more plate appearances
And to top it all off, Ibanez has been the fourth worst defensive leftfielder in major league baseball this season – ahead of only Carlos Lee, Ryan Braun, and Lastings Milledge.
We’re not imagining his struggles.
From a baseball standpoint – and from a logical standpoint - there is no reason Raul Ibanez deserves to play everyday on a contending team. He has been awful at the plate and terrible in the field. Yet he continues to bat sixth everyday while the Phillies top prospect, who also happens to be a corner outfielder, is putting on a clinic in the pitcher-friendly Eastern League.
Domonic Brown is hitting .313/.382/.587 with 10 homers and 33 RBI for Reading. His .969 OPS leads the Eastern League, his .313 batting average is fifth, his ten homers are sixth, as are his 105 total bases. And I reiterate, Brown has done so in a pitcher’s league in which the collective ERA of the twelve teams is 4.06.
Releasing Raul
For weeks, I’ve been trying to figure out a peaceful solution to this problem. Ruben Amaro finds himself in a self-inflicted predicament, because Ibanez’ full no-trade clause all-but prevents the Phillies from sending him away and eating salary.
(Honestly, it wouldn’t matter if Ibby didn’t have a full NTC, because his age and lack of value would have been enough to make reluctant all 29 potential trade partners.)
So release him. Cut ties with an expensive underperfomer. Amaro did so twice last year, when he released Geoff Jenkins and Adam Eaton. The Phils cut Jenkins while paying his $6.75M salary in ‘09, plus an additional $1.25M club buyout for 2010. Eaton, too, earned a hefty chunk of change upon his release – $9.15M to be exact. All told, the Phils paid $17.15M for the right to rid themselves of two underperformers with bad contracts.
Ibanez is in the second year of a three-year, $31.5M deal of which he has already collected about fourteen million dollars. Subtract 14 million from 31.5 million and what do you get? 17.5 million, or just about exactly the amount of dead money the Phillies gave out to Jenkins and Eaton last year.
Financially, releasing Ibanez is no worse than releasing those two, and while consecutive years of dead money may be hard for a GM to explain to his superiors, it’s better than paying a player to hurt your team.
Letting Go
This is not an overreaction. These are not the exagerrated words of a WIP caller. There is no impulse or emotion guiding my thought process. Ibanez has been a black hole in the Phillies lineup for a year, and if his two-month hot streak took place at any time other than his first two months here, none of us would feel much of an attachment to him.
Is there ANY logical reason to keep him? Let’s take a look at the possible counter-arguments to cutting ties with Ibanez.
1) “He was great last year, you can’t cut him”
Response: No he wasn’t. He had two great months, one horrible month, and three average months. Plus, last year doesn’t matter anyway. Ibanez is a year older now, and 38 year-olds don’t typically rejuvenate as seasons wear on. He’s had three more awful months this season and is providing less value than 19 other left fielders on the fifteen other NL teams.
Just as Dobbs’ 2008 was an apparition, Ibanez’ April-May 2009 was an unsustainable, fluky time period that we only believed in because it coincided with our introduction to him. Does it make any sense at all to put more stock into the 210 plate appearances in April-May ‘09 than in his 560 plate appearances since?
2) “He’s a veteran and a good clubhouse guy.”
Response: So was Ken Griffey Jr. before he retired. So is Nick Punto. So was Clay Condrey. And Tomas Perez. And I’m sure Kevin Sefcik enjoyed patting his teammates on the back. Can we talk about baseball, though? And not ponies and unicorns riding in fields of daisies?
3) “He’s making too much money. Can’t give up on him for that reason alone.”
Response: So, because he is still due about seventeen million dollars, you have to pay him that and allow him to hurt the Phillies by going 2-for-every-9, pulling up short on balls other outfielders would get to, and clogging up the basepaths?
Oliver Perez is making a similar amount of money with the Mets, and they finally had the sense to stop pitching him every fifth day. Things got so bad that they sent him on a phantom DL trip. There is absolutely no need to let a player’s contract handcuff you in more ways than one.
4) “Just designate Greg Dobbs for assignment and move Raul to the bench.”
Response: You could do that. But it would mean having a five man bench that consists of three outfielders: Ibanez, Ben Francisco, and Ross Gload. Sure, Gload can technically play first base, but how many times would you sit Ryan Howard in favor of Gload? Dobbs, despite all of his struggles, can still play a slightly-below-average first, second, third, left field, and right field.
Plus, releasing a player with $17M left on his contract is still more realistic than making that player a $17M pinch-hitter. You coerce Raul to waive his no-trade clause, and if he doesn’t imply, you give him the outright release. Let him spread his wings and fly back to Seattle, a team so desperately in need of an offensive upgrade that they would probably take him back.
5) “Domonic Brown isn’t ready to step in and play everyday in the major leagues.”
Response: What does he have left to prove? Does he have to take his .313/.382/.587 slash-line up to Triple-A and show that he can also hit against washed up former major league pitchers? The Eastern League and its 4.06 ERA is every bit as much of a test as anything the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs face.
Brown is a dynamic left-handed hitter with fleet feet and a much better glove than Ibanez. He is no less ready at this exact moment than he will be in March 2011.
Bringing Brown up and inserting him into the six-hole would add a much-needed spark, help break up the monotonous stagnance this lineup is prone to, and allow the Phillies to see what they have in him, in order to better judge what their move will be in the offseason (re: Jayson Werth.)
Final Word
I am not deeming Domonic Brown the savior to a team that has fallen to 11th in the NL in runs scored, nor am I saying that his wampum stick will definitively play in The Show.
I am merely explaining that anybody – literally…any replacement player – would be more valuable than Raul Ibanez right now, and when you couple the bleak outlook for Ibby with the fact that the Phils’ top prospect plays the same position, the answer is very simple.
If it’s not so simple to you, please give me one good reason the Phillies should continue to send out a slow, overmatched 38-year old corner outfielder who has done nothing in the last year other than bounce balls to the right side of the infield.
And no, “being a good guy,” or “being part of the 2009 NL Champs,” doesn’t count.
I really wanted them to take Stetson Allie.