This could be me nit picking, but I was just looking at Utley's numbers....What's everyone think of Chase's drop in doubles? The 40's to the 20's? I guess that could just be bad luck, but doubles tell me a lot about a hitter more than homers, triples, etc.
Pretty intersting and looking at his stats the last couple years are really interesting. I am sure you guys could explain this a lot better than most as you watch him every day, but his numbers are fun to look at. The decline in doubles has really taken a toll on his SLG% which is to be expected since his 3B and HR's remained fairly consistent.
What I do find interesting is that since 2007 he has gone from a .332/.410/.566 (BA/OBP/SLG) to a .282/.397/.508 in 2009 (2008 was down from 2007 as well). Also his walk and K numbers have also increased over the last 3 years from 50 walks and 89 K's in 2007 to 88 walks and 110 K's in 2009.
Taking a look at FanGraphs, last year he had his lowest line drive % and highest fly ball % of his career. It also looks like he swung at a WHOLE lot less pitches last year than in 2008. In 2009 he only swung at 37% of pitches compared to a career average of 42%.
It seems to me like he may have been much more selective on pitches over the past year or so which may have hurt him. Has he gone from more of a see the ball-hit the ball hitter to a much more patient hitter?
This is no knock on Utley at all. He is one of the best players in baseball period. I just love talking baseball and looking at players stats.
i think the hip problem is something that never really goes away and has affected his swing to some degree. he is still awesome but his swing is not quite as fluid as it once was.
Interesting you say that because I originally had a whole thing about his hip in there but then saw that last year he had more stolen bases than any year in his career so that kind of threw me off.
The Philadelphia Phillies and All-Star center fielder Shane Victorino have agreed to a three-year contract extension worth $22 million, a source familiar with the club's negotiations told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark.
Victorino
The deal would keep him under contract with the Phillies through 2012.
Victorino earned his second straight Golden Glove award in 2009 while hitting .292 with 62 RBIs, 10 home runs, 13 triples, 39 doubles, and 25 stolen bases.
The Victorino deal follows Thursday's announcement that the Phillies had signed 29-year-old right-hander Joe Blanton to a three-year, $24 million extension.
Victorino made $3.125 million in 2009. He asked for $5.8 million in arbitration, and the Phillies had offered $4.75 million.
Assistant GM Scott Proefrock told The Associated Press the Phillies were also negotiating with catcher Carlos Ruiz, the only other Phillie in arbitration, and hoped to sign him within a week.
The downside to the acquisition of Halladay was that it resulted in Cliff Lee’s departure to Seattle. The team said it dealt Lee because it wanted to add prospects to a minor-league system that had been hit hard by trades. It’s also possible that finances played a part in the Phillies’ thinking, though team officials have downplayed that.
Lee was due to make $9 million in 2010; Halladay $15.75. The Phils received $6 million from Toronto in the Halladay trade. All this will help the Phils keep their payroll at about $140 million, which will be one of the highest in the game.
Manuel would have loved to have kept Lee, but that doesn’t make him unique. Phillies fans far and wide share the sentiment.
“I’m not necessarily disappointed because I understand the baseball aspect of it,’’ Manuel said. “When I was a player-development guy, I was more of a long-range guy. But now I’m a major league manager and I’m more for the now, not three or four years down the road.
“As a manager in the big leagues, I look to put the best team on the field that’s possible at that moment. That’s where Lee comes into play. The financial part, I have nothing to do with that. I want to put the best possible team on the field. I don’t know if that makes me selfish, but that’s how you play the game. That’s how the Yankees do it.
“I talked to Lee. He liked us and wanted to stay. If Halladay is the best pitcher in the game, Lee isn’t too far behind. With Halladay and Lee – it’s a no-brainer – we’re better. Don’t get me wrong, I like our pitching. I think [Cole] Hamels is going to turn it around. He’s probably the biggest reason we won the World Series [in 2008], and he can be that guy again. But with Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Blanton and [J.A.] Happ, we’re better.’’
With Jamie Moyer recovering from groin and knee surgeries, Manuel said that Kyle Kendrick would get a long look for the No. 5 starter’s job in spring training. The top four is set with Halladay, Hamels, Blanton and Happ
The Philadelphia Phillies and All-Star center fielder Shane Victorino have agreed to a three-year contract extension worth $22 million, a source familiar with the club's negotiations told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark.
Victorino
The deal would keep him under contract with the Phillies through 2012.
Victorino earned his second straight Golden Glove award in 2009 while hitting .292 with 62 RBIs, 10 home runs, 13 triples, 39 doubles, and 25 stolen bases.
The Victorino deal follows Thursday's announcement that the Phillies had signed 29-year-old right-hander Joe Blanton to a three-year, $24 million extension.
Victorino made $3.125 million in 2009. He asked for $5.8 million in arbitration, and the Phillies had offered $4.75 million.
Assistant GM Scott Proefrock told The Associated Press the Phillies were also negotiating with catcher Carlos Ruiz, the only other Phillie in arbitration, and hoped to sign him within a week.
"Just a thought: For everyone who is still upset about paying Joe Blanton and not Cliff Lee, keep 2011 and beyond in your mind. Knowing the money they had tied up for 2011, the team had an idea it was basically impossible to meet what Lee will bring in free agency next offseason. So instead, the team chose three years of an affordable Joe Blanton along with three prospects over one year of Cliff Lee. Will that backfire? It's certainly possible.
Even if Werth ends up being out of the picture, does the team still have enough flexibility to fill out the rest of the roster for 2011? Or does someone under contract need to be traded to free up cash?
It's all a ways down the road, but nearly every move the Phillies have made this offseason was done with 2011 in mind, too."
Thank you, Andy. Now please let the Cliff Lee nonsense go.
"Just a thought: For everyone who is still upset about paying Joe Blanton and not Cliff Lee, keep 2011 and beyond in your mind. Knowing the money they had tied up for 2011, the team had an idea it was basically impossible to meet what Lee will bring in free agency next offseason. So instead, the team chose three years of an affordable Joe Blanton along with three prospects over one year of Cliff Lee. Will that backfire? It's certainly possible.
Even if Werth ends up being out of the picture, does the team still have enough flexibility to fill out the rest of the roster for 2011? Or does someone under contract need to be traded to free up cash?
It's all a ways down the road, but nearly every move the Phillies have made this offseason was done with 2011 in mind, too."
Thank you, Andy. Now please let the Cliff Lee nonsense go.
see, that doesnt do it for me. i agree this is a stale argument that never goes anwhere and i know we got these prospects, but thats all they are prospects. no guarantees. if we kept lee, we would have gotten 2 first rounders after he walked who would have taken longer to develop, but they're first rounders none the less. we still have your boy brown to take over in the outfield if/when werth walks. and keeping lee would have meant we'd be odds on favorites to win the world series, not just get there again....and it would have meant a once in a liftime opportunity of having the greatest rotation in the 150 year old history of the phils...it's not nonsense. its something that could have happened and will haunt this team if the staff performs like they did much of last year.
"Just a thought: For everyone who is still upset about paying Joe Blanton and not Cliff Lee, keep 2011 and beyond in your mind. Knowing the money they had tied up for 2011, the team had an idea it was basically impossible to meet what Lee will bring in free agency next offseason. So instead, the team chose three years of an affordable Joe Blanton along with three prospects over one year of Cliff Lee. Will that backfire? It's certainly possible.
Even if Werth ends up being out of the picture, does the team still have enough flexibility to fill out the rest of the roster for 2011? Or does someone under contract need to be traded to free up cash?
It's all a ways down the road, but nearly every move the Phillies have made this offseason was done with 2011 in mind, too."
Thank you, Andy. Now please let the Cliff Lee nonsense go.
see, that doesnt do it for me. i agree this is a stale argument that never goes anwhere and i know we got these prospects, but thats all they are prospects. no guarantees. if we kept lee, we would have gotten 2 first rounders after he walked who would have taken longer to develop, but they're first rounders none the less. we still have your boy brown to take over in the outfield if/when werth walks. and keeping lee would have meant we'd be odds on favorites to win the world series, not just get there again....and it would have meant a once in a liftime opportunity of having the greatest rotation in the 150 year old history of the phils...it's not nonsense. its something that could have happened and will haunt this team if the staff performs like they did much of last year.
"Just a thought: For everyone who is still upset about paying Joe Blanton and not Cliff Lee, keep 2011 and beyond in your mind. Knowing the money they had tied up for 2011, the team had an idea it was basically impossible to meet what Lee will bring in free agency next offseason. So instead, the team chose three years of an affordable Joe Blanton along with three prospects over one year of Cliff Lee. Will that backfire? It's certainly possible.
Even if Werth ends up being out of the picture, does the team still have enough flexibility to fill out the rest of the roster for 2011? Or does someone under contract need to be traded to free up cash?
It's all a ways down the road, but nearly every move the Phillies have made this offseason was done with 2011 in mind, too."
Thank you, Andy. Now please let the Cliff Lee nonsense go.
see, that doesnt do it for me. i agree this is a stale argument that never goes anwhere and i know we got these prospects, but thats all they are prospects. no guarantees. if we kept lee, we would have gotten 2 first rounders after he walked who would have taken longer to develop, but they're first rounders none the less. we still have your boy brown to take over in the outfield if/when werth walks. and keeping lee would have meant we'd be odds on favorites to win the world series, not just get there again....and it would have meant a once in a liftime opportunity of having the greatest rotation in the 150 year old history of the phils...it's not nonsense. its something that could have happened and will haunt this team if the staff performs like they did much of last year.
nice to see Avery get beaten by hartnell, expected better from Carcillo, please
someone needs to smoke this tool
1998 ~ Barrie
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
nice to see Avery get beaten by hartnell, expected better from Carcillo, please
someone needs to smoke this tool
ummmmm...
Wrong thread
lmao
woops
1998 ~ Barrie
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
"Just a thought: For everyone who is still upset about paying Joe Blanton and not Cliff Lee, keep 2011 and beyond in your mind. Knowing the money they had tied up for 2011, the team had an idea it was basically impossible to meet what Lee will bring in free agency next offseason. So instead, the team chose three years of an affordable Joe Blanton along with three prospects over one year of Cliff Lee. Will that backfire? It's certainly possible.
Even if Werth ends up being out of the picture, does the team still have enough flexibility to fill out the rest of the roster for 2011? Or does someone under contract need to be traded to free up cash?
It's all a ways down the road, but nearly every move the Phillies have made this offseason was done with 2011 in mind, too."
Thank you, Andy. Now please let the Cliff Lee nonsense go.
see, that doesnt do it for me. i agree this is a stale argument that never goes anwhere and i know we got these prospects, but thats all they are prospects. no guarantees. if we kept lee, we would have gotten 2 first rounders after he walked who would have taken longer to develop, but they're first rounders none the less. we still have your boy brown to take over in the outfield if/when werth walks. and keeping lee would have meant we'd be odds on favorites to win the world series, not just get there again....and it would have meant a once in a liftime opportunity of having the greatest rotation in the 150 year old history of the phils...it's not nonsense. its something that could have happened and will haunt this team if the staff performs like they did much of last year.
how bout a lefty in the pen? any updates on that?
if it is once in a lifetime ask Charlie if we should fire him and get a better manager. he is the moron that started Pedro over our $8 million starter and our 2nd runner up rookie of the year.
"Just a thought: For everyone who is still upset about paying Joe Blanton and not Cliff Lee, keep 2011 and beyond in your mind. Knowing the money they had tied up for 2011, the team had an idea it was basically impossible to meet what Lee will bring in free agency next offseason. So instead, the team chose three years of an affordable Joe Blanton along with three prospects over one year of Cliff Lee. Will that backfire? It's certainly possible.
Even if Werth ends up being out of the picture, does the team still have enough flexibility to fill out the rest of the roster for 2011? Or does someone under contract need to be traded to free up cash?
It's all a ways down the road, but nearly every move the Phillies have made this offseason was done with 2011 in mind, too."
Thank you, Andy. Now please let the Cliff Lee nonsense go.
see, that doesnt do it for me. i agree this is a stale argument that never goes anwhere and i know we got these prospects, but thats all they are prospects. no guarantees. if we kept lee, we would have gotten 2 first rounders after he walked who would have taken longer to develop, but they're first rounders none the less. we still have your boy brown to take over in the outfield if/when werth walks. and keeping lee would have meant we'd be odds on favorites to win the world series, not just get there again....and it would have meant a once in a liftime opportunity of having the greatest rotation in the 150 year old history of the phils...it's not nonsense. its something that could have happened and will haunt this team if the staff performs like they did much of last year.
how bout a lefty in the pen? any updates on that?
if it is once in a lifetime ask Charlie if we should fire him and get a better manager. he is the moron that started Pedro over our $8 million starter and our 2nd runner up rookie of the year.
ALL OF ny thanks him
i post on the board of a band that doesn't exsist anymore .......i need my head examined.......
see, that doesnt do it for me. i agree this is a stale argument that never goes anwhere and i know we got these prospects, but thats all they are prospects. no guarantees. if we kept lee, we would have gotten 2 first rounders after he walked who would have taken longer to develop, but they're first rounders none the less. we still have your boy brown to take over in the outfield if/when werth walks. and keeping lee would have meant we'd be odds on favorites to win the world series, not just get there again....and it would have meant a once in a liftime opportunity of having the greatest rotation in the 150 year old history of the phils...it's not nonsense. its something that could have happened and will haunt this team if the staff performs like they did much of last year.
how bout a lefty in the pen? any updates on that?
Agree 100% wow
that's cuz its a different sport i guess!
I know I'm going to sound like a douche bag here, but whatever. This is all COMPLETE NONSENSE. I feel like I'm getting WIP in Binaural mode. Dude, Stark reported that the Phillies offered Cliff a 3 year 60 mil contract. It wasn't good enough, so management moved on. If that's not them putting their best foot forward, then I don't know what is. You guys keep talking about the greatest pitching rotation in the history of the team. YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT THAT HAVING BOTH IN THE ROTATION WAS NOT A FEASIBLE OPTION - IT NEVER WAS. It wasn't like they made a play for Doc while still having Lee. The problem here is you're all being ungrateful. Hate to say it, but it's true. This team is STILL the favorite in the NL without Lee. Do I have dreams of what a lineup would look like with Steve Carlton and Mike Schmidt in this lineup? Sure, but that's what makes them dreams. YOU ARE STILL LOOKING AT THE GREATEST PHILLIES TEAM TO EVER TAKE THE FIELD. Think real, hard, and long about that. And I am by no means a company man, but I find solace in the fact that this team is being structured for today and tomorrow. The days of the Phillies regarding themselves as a small market team are long gone with the door permanently shut on this notion.
Stark is reporting these deals are also opening the doors for more bullpen help.
And pjhawks, you're gonna rip Charlie for the moves he makes yet you'll suck Andy Reid's golf balls through a garden hose.....Always easier to get up on a soap box rip people after the fact. I had no problem with Pedro in game 2. In fact, Pedro was spectacular in the playoffs other than his last appearance. Was Game 6 a stretch? Sure, but I will no way rip Charlie for the way he ran things. Not enough where he deserves some kind of unbelievable scrutiny. If Pedro was sick as a dog and couldn't pitch he should've made it known.
Just saw this. Now this is off the cuff as I'm just seeing this, but I like it for depth at the 5 spot plus a decent swing/long man. Roster's filling up nicely.
Oh, and there's more of your Cliff Lee money, boys. Now go puts your noses back in your sour milk.
Just saw this. Now this is off the cuff as I'm just seeing this, but I like it for depth at the 5 spot plus a decent swing/long man. Roster's filling up nicely.
Oh, and there's more of your Cliff Lee money, boys. Now go puts your noses back in your sour milk.
I guess. He is not good though. Wouldn't Pedro have been a better option?
Just saw this. Now this is off the cuff as I'm just seeing this, but I like it for depth at the 5 spot plus a decent swing/long man. Roster's filling up nicely.
Oh, and there's more of your Cliff Lee money, boys. Now go puts your noses back in your sour milk.
I guess. He is not good though. Wouldn't Pedro have been a better option?
Same thing was said about Chan Ho, and his numbers were more than decent in his stint in Colorado. And Pedro wants a whole season and about 5 mil. They're saying this is a low cost high reward thing, so I'm down with it. Apparently they are talking to Pedro about a half season thing again though. Oh, and Pedro's not and never will be a bullpen guy. At least Jose's got the gas to be a bullpen guy.
Same thing was said about Chan Ho, and his numbers were more than decent in his stint in Colorado. And Pedro wants a whole season and about 5 mil. They're saying this is a low cost high reward thing, so I'm down with it. Apparently they are talking to Pedro about a half season thing again though. Oh, and Pedro's not and never will be a bullpen guy. At least Jose's got the gas to be a bullpen guy.
I guess, as long as the deal is for nothing. His stint in Col was a whole 17 innings. Can't hurt I guess as long as he is not getting paid much.
Same thing was said about Chan Ho, and his numbers were more than decent in his stint in Colorado. And Pedro wants a whole season and about 5 mil. They're saying this is a low cost high reward thing, so I'm down with it. Apparently they are talking to Pedro about a half season thing again though. Oh, and Pedro's not and never will be a bullpen guy. At least Jose's got the gas to be a bullpen guy.
I guess, as long as the deal is for nothing. His stint in Col was a whole 17 innings. Can't hurt I guess as long as he is not getting paid much.
And I don't think he will. I can't see more than 2 mil. If Chan Ho was offered 3, then I gotta presume this is no more than 2/2.5
Same thing was said about Chan Ho, and his numbers were more than decent in his stint in Colorado. And Pedro wants a whole season and about 5 mil. They're saying this is a low cost high reward thing, so I'm down with it. Apparently they are talking to Pedro about a half season thing again though. Oh, and Pedro's not and never will be a bullpen guy. At least Jose's got the gas to be a bullpen guy.
I guess, as long as the deal is for nothing. His stint in Col was a whole 17 innings. Can't hurt I guess as long as he is not getting paid much.
And I don't think he will. I can't see more than 2 mil. If Chan Ho was offered 3, then I gotta presume this is no more than 2/2.5
True, I am surpised Chan Ho would have turned down 3 mil. I didnt see that.
jearlpam0925 - two differnet animals in the NFL and Major Leagues. Much Much harder to win consistently in the NFL as the talent bases of most teams are much closer in the NFL than in the Major Leagues. It's it why for the 9th straight year the NFC will have a different representative in the Super Bowl (9 different since the Giants in 2001 I believe).
I think Charlie is a good manager for this team because of his patience but I do believe starting Pedro 3 times in the playoffs (and the Phils won none of those games) was a monumental mistake - a mistake that we will look back upon in the years to come and realize what a fuckup move it was. also part of my comments on Charlie were in response to him basically ripping management for not having Lee here as well - if Charlie wants everything then I guess he can step aside and we can get a better manager in here.
I know I'm going to sound like a douche bag here, but whatever. This is all COMPLETE NONSENSE. I feel like I'm getting WIP in Binaural mode. Dude, Stark reported that the Phillies offered Cliff a 3 year 60 mil contract. It wasn't good enough, so management moved on. If that's not them putting their best foot forward, then I don't know what is. You guys keep talking about the greatest pitching rotation in the history of the team. YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT THAT HAVING BOTH IN THE ROTATION WAS NOT A FEASIBLE OPTION - IT NEVER WAS. It wasn't like they made a play for Doc while still having Lee. The problem here is you're all being ungrateful. Hate to say it, but it's true. This team is STILL the favorite in the NL without Lee. Do I have dreams of what a lineup would look like with Steve Carlton and Mike Schmidt in this lineup? Sure, but that's what makes them dreams. YOU ARE STILL LOOKING AT THE GREATEST PHILLIES TEAM TO EVER TAKE THE FIELD. Think real, hard, and long about that. And I am by no means a company man, but I find solace in the fact that this team is being structured for today and tomorrow. The days of the Phillies regarding themselves as a small market team are long gone with the door permanently shut on this notion.
dude...never did i say we should extend lee AND trade for and extend halladay. of course that would not be feasible. but making the halladay trade and keeping lee for just one season certainly was. it was two seperate trades not a 3 teamer. they could have had them both, they chose not to because of their payroll.
and no, this is not wip talk coming at you as i only listen to the midday show on that station who actually are in agreement with you on this.
Just saw this. Now this is off the cuff as I'm just seeing this, but I like it for depth at the 5 spot plus a decent swing/long man. Roster's filling up nicely.
Oh, and there's more of your Cliff Lee money, boys. Now go puts your noses back in your sour milk.
hmmm....spending that money on jose contreras and an extra reliever....or spending that money on cliff lee, and spending slightly OVER your self imposed cap on a reliever. yeah, thats a tough one.
It's it why for the 9th straight year the NFC will have a different representative in the Super Bowl (9 different since the Giants in 2001 I believe).
Forget so soon....
Back to your Phillies banter....
Edit: Or I could have read you wrong and you could have been saying after 2001... My mistake, either way that is a beautiful picture.
EXACTLY. If anything, this proves my point that it's harder to win consistently in baseball. Do you know what the average turn around time in the NFL is from a bad team to a mediocre team? THREE YEARS. That can't be done in baseball, unless you're the worthless Yankees or douchebag Sawx. Teams that make bad decisions in baseball are effected for YEARS. In football, teams can be revamped in mere months. This picture of Corky Thatcher proves that. Oh, and again, look at Pedro's stats from the playoffs aside from game 6. How quickly we forget. They didn't win any of those games he says.........that's like saying Cole Hamels ONLY winning 15 games in 2008 was his fault. No, you're right....Pedro holding LA to ONE RUN though 8 and battling incredibly in game 2 of the WS only to get no support because the lineup got too smart for their own good is the reason Pedro lost those games. I know exactly what the lineup was thinking against Burnett in game 2 - the guy can't throw his breaking ball for strikes so work the counts and get his pitch count up and have him out of the game by the 5th inning. Ya know what happened though? His curve DID go over for strikes. Then the lineup started going after bad pitches. If you wanna put game 6 on Pedro, fine, but don't tell me the reason they lost in any of the other games were his fault.
Just saw this. Now this is off the cuff as I'm just seeing this, but I like it for depth at the 5 spot plus a decent swing/long man. Roster's filling up nicely.
Oh, and there's more of your Cliff Lee money, boys. Now go puts your noses back in your sour milk.
hmmm....spending that money on jose contreras and an extra reliever....or spending that money on cliff lee, and spending slightly OVER your self imposed cap on a reliever. yeah, thats a tough one.
Comments
Interesting you say that because I originally had a whole thing about his hip in there but then saw that last year he had more stolen bases than any year in his career so that kind of threw me off.
Victorino
The deal would keep him under contract with the Phillies through 2012.
Victorino earned his second straight Golden Glove award in 2009 while hitting .292 with 62 RBIs, 10 home runs, 13 triples, 39 doubles, and 25 stolen bases.
The Victorino deal follows Thursday's announcement that the Phillies had signed 29-year-old right-hander Joe Blanton to a three-year, $24 million extension.
Victorino made $3.125 million in 2009. He asked for $5.8 million in arbitration, and the Phillies had offered $4.75 million.
Assistant GM Scott Proefrock told The Associated Press the Phillies were also negotiating with catcher Carlos Ruiz, the only other Phillie in arbitration, and hoped to sign him within a week.
Now this is a damn good deal
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/201 ... a_day.html
http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landing_ ... feedID=704
The downside to the acquisition of Halladay was that it resulted in Cliff Lee’s departure to Seattle. The team said it dealt Lee because it wanted to add prospects to a minor-league system that had been hit hard by trades. It’s also possible that finances played a part in the Phillies’ thinking, though team officials have downplayed that.
Lee was due to make $9 million in 2010; Halladay $15.75. The Phils received $6 million from Toronto in the Halladay trade. All this will help the Phils keep their payroll at about $140 million, which will be one of the highest in the game.
Manuel would have loved to have kept Lee, but that doesn’t make him unique. Phillies fans far and wide share the sentiment.
“I’m not necessarily disappointed because I understand the baseball aspect of it,’’ Manuel said. “When I was a player-development guy, I was more of a long-range guy. But now I’m a major league manager and I’m more for the now, not three or four years down the road.
“As a manager in the big leagues, I look to put the best team on the field that’s possible at that moment. That’s where Lee comes into play. The financial part, I have nothing to do with that. I want to put the best possible team on the field. I don’t know if that makes me selfish, but that’s how you play the game. That’s how the Yankees do it.
“I talked to Lee. He liked us and wanted to stay. If Halladay is the best pitcher in the game, Lee isn’t too far behind. With Halladay and Lee – it’s a no-brainer – we’re better. Don’t get me wrong, I like our pitching. I think [Cole] Hamels is going to turn it around. He’s probably the biggest reason we won the World Series [in 2008], and he can be that guy again. But with Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Blanton and [J.A.] Happ, we’re better.’’
With Jamie Moyer recovering from groin and knee surgeries, Manuel said that Kyle Kendrick would get a long look for the No. 5 starter’s job in spring training. The top four is set with Halladay, Hamels, Blanton and Happ
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Loo ... _2011.html
"Just a thought: For everyone who is still upset about paying Joe Blanton and not Cliff Lee, keep 2011 and beyond in your mind. Knowing the money they had tied up for 2011, the team had an idea it was basically impossible to meet what Lee will bring in free agency next offseason. So instead, the team chose three years of an affordable Joe Blanton along with three prospects over one year of Cliff Lee. Will that backfire? It's certainly possible.
Even if Werth ends up being out of the picture, does the team still have enough flexibility to fill out the rest of the roster for 2011? Or does someone under contract need to be traded to free up cash?
It's all a ways down the road, but nearly every move the Phillies have made this offseason was done with 2011 in mind, too."
Thank you, Andy. Now please let the Cliff Lee nonsense go.
see, that doesnt do it for me. i agree this is a stale argument that never goes anwhere and i know we got these prospects, but thats all they are prospects. no guarantees. if we kept lee, we would have gotten 2 first rounders after he walked who would have taken longer to develop, but they're first rounders none the less. we still have your boy brown to take over in the outfield if/when werth walks. and keeping lee would have meant we'd be odds on favorites to win the world series, not just get there again....and it would have meant a once in a liftime opportunity of having the greatest rotation in the 150 year old history of the phils...it's not nonsense. its something that could have happened and will haunt this team if the staff performs like they did much of last year.
how bout a lefty in the pen? any updates on that?
that's cuz its a different sport i guess!
someone needs to smoke this tool
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
ummmmm...
Wrong thread
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
lmao
woops
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
if it is once in a lifetime ask Charlie if we should fire him and get a better manager. he is the moron that started Pedro over our $8 million starter and our 2nd runner up rookie of the year.
ALL OF ny thanks him
I know I'm going to sound like a douche bag here, but whatever. This is all COMPLETE NONSENSE. I feel like I'm getting WIP in Binaural mode. Dude, Stark reported that the Phillies offered Cliff a 3 year 60 mil contract. It wasn't good enough, so management moved on. If that's not them putting their best foot forward, then I don't know what is. You guys keep talking about the greatest pitching rotation in the history of the team. YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT THAT HAVING BOTH IN THE ROTATION WAS NOT A FEASIBLE OPTION - IT NEVER WAS. It wasn't like they made a play for Doc while still having Lee. The problem here is you're all being ungrateful. Hate to say it, but it's true. This team is STILL the favorite in the NL without Lee. Do I have dreams of what a lineup would look like with Steve Carlton and Mike Schmidt in this lineup? Sure, but that's what makes them dreams. YOU ARE STILL LOOKING AT THE GREATEST PHILLIES TEAM TO EVER TAKE THE FIELD. Think real, hard, and long about that. And I am by no means a company man, but I find solace in the fact that this team is being structured for today and tomorrow. The days of the Phillies regarding themselves as a small market team are long gone with the door permanently shut on this notion.
Stark is reporting these deals are also opening the doors for more bullpen help.
And pjhawks, you're gonna rip Charlie for the moves he makes yet you'll suck Andy Reid's golf balls through a garden hose.....Always easier to get up on a soap box rip people after the fact. I had no problem with Pedro in game 2. In fact, Pedro was spectacular in the playoffs other than his last appearance. Was Game 6 a stretch? Sure, but I will no way rip Charlie for the way he ran things. Not enough where he deserves some kind of unbelievable scrutiny. If Pedro was sick as a dog and couldn't pitch he should've made it known.
Just saw this. Now this is off the cuff as I'm just seeing this, but I like it for depth at the 5 spot plus a decent swing/long man. Roster's filling up nicely.
Oh, and there's more of your Cliff Lee money, boys. Now go puts your noses back in your sour milk.
I guess. He is not good though. Wouldn't Pedro have been a better option?
Same thing was said about Chan Ho, and his numbers were more than decent in his stint in Colorado. And Pedro wants a whole season and about 5 mil. They're saying this is a low cost high reward thing, so I'm down with it. Apparently they are talking to Pedro about a half season thing again though. Oh, and Pedro's not and never will be a bullpen guy. At least Jose's got the gas to be a bullpen guy.
I guess, as long as the deal is for nothing. His stint in Col was a whole 17 innings. Can't hurt I guess as long as he is not getting paid much.
And I don't think he will. I can't see more than 2 mil. If Chan Ho was offered 3, then I gotta presume this is no more than 2/2.5
True, I am surpised Chan Ho would have turned down 3 mil. I didnt see that.
I think Charlie is a good manager for this team because of his patience but I do believe starting Pedro 3 times in the playoffs (and the Phils won none of those games) was a monumental mistake - a mistake that we will look back upon in the years to come and realize what a fuckup move it was. also part of my comments on Charlie were in response to him basically ripping management for not having Lee here as well - if Charlie wants everything then I guess he can step aside and we can get a better manager in here.
Forget so soon....
Back to your Phillies banter....
Edit: Or I could have read you wrong and you could have been saying after 2001... My mistake, either way that is a beautiful picture.
dude...never did i say we should extend lee AND trade for and extend halladay. of course that would not be feasible. but making the halladay trade and keeping lee for just one season certainly was. it was two seperate trades not a 3 teamer. they could have had them both, they chose not to because of their payroll.
and no, this is not wip talk coming at you as i only listen to the midday show on that station who actually are in agreement with you on this.
hmmm....spending that money on jose contreras and an extra reliever....or spending that money on cliff lee, and spending slightly OVER your self imposed cap on a reliever. yeah, thats a tough one.
EXACTLY. If anything, this proves my point that it's harder to win consistently in baseball. Do you know what the average turn around time in the NFL is from a bad team to a mediocre team? THREE YEARS. That can't be done in baseball, unless you're the worthless Yankees or douchebag Sawx. Teams that make bad decisions in baseball are effected for YEARS. In football, teams can be revamped in mere months. This picture of Corky Thatcher proves that. Oh, and again, look at Pedro's stats from the playoffs aside from game 6. How quickly we forget. They didn't win any of those games he says.........that's like saying Cole Hamels ONLY winning 15 games in 2008 was his fault. No, you're right....Pedro holding LA to ONE RUN though 8 and battling incredibly in game 2 of the WS only to get no support because the lineup got too smart for their own good is the reason Pedro lost those games. I know exactly what the lineup was thinking against Burnett in game 2 - the guy can't throw his breaking ball for strikes so work the counts and get his pitch count up and have him out of the game by the 5th inning. Ya know what happened though? His curve DID go over for strikes. Then the lineup started going after bad pitches. If you wanna put game 6 on Pedro, fine, but don't tell me the reason they lost in any of the other games were his fault.
You're wrong and you know it.
what is the latest on chan ho? i know he wants to start. is he close to signing with anyone?
little concerned about the lack of lefties in the pen right now though...