dont dodge the question. you just said men and women act differently sometimes, didnt you?
I didnt think anybody denied that. Of course men and women act differently sometimes. If a woman is lost she'll ask someone for directions. Men don't. Affects their ego or something.
dont dodge the question. you just said men and women act differently sometimes, didnt you?
I wasn't dodging the question. I'm talking biology, instincts, physicality-Wash brought up "nature". my point was that there are obvious physical differences between males and females. Women have maternal instincts, so they are obviously protectors in that regard (but as a woman I can say that these instincts don't stick just to offspring or children-when anyone I care about, often men, are upset or hurt, it is my instinct to help and take care of them. You can feel where it's stemming from, the need to protect-and I actually read that this is even more pronounced in oldest children with younger brothers, like myself). Men are bigger so they are obviously protectors in that regard. I don't think either sex has a predetermined nature to be "submissive" though. If an individual behaves as such that is either 1) a "nurture" as opposed to nature issue and 2) just who that individual is.
I didnt think anybody denied that. Of course men and women act differently sometimes. If a woman is lost she'll ask someone for directions. Men don't. Affects their ego or something.
but see this is different than what I was saying...I've learned that those stereotypes and generalizations mean nothing...some of my girlfriends would rather die lost in the desert than ask directions.
I didnt think anybody denied that. Of course men and women act differently sometimes. If a woman is lost she'll ask someone for directions. Men don't. Affects their ego or something.
yet i am crucified anytime i say that becos my tone is less forgiving and i am more critical and honest about when those differences are negative.
i have no problem asking for directions. but i dont get all fired up and pissed off and defensive when women say that. why? becos it's generally true and for all the reasons they offer it. even if it doesn't apply to me, i can recognize and admit the truth at the heart of it.
I wasn't dodging the question. I'm talking biology, instincts, physicality-Wash brought up "nature". my point was that there are obvious physical differences between males and females. Women have maternal instincts, so they are obviously protectors in that regard (but as a woman I can say that these instincts don't stick just to offspring or children-when anyone I care about, often men, are upset or hurt, it is my instinct to help and take care of them. You can feel where it's stemming from, the need to protect-and I actually read that this is even more pronounced in oldest children with younger brothers, like myself). Men are bigger so they are obviously protectors in that regard. I don't think either sex has a predetermined nature to be "submissive" though. If an individual behaves as such that is either 1) a "nurture" as opposed to nature issue and 2) just who that individual is.
women have maternal instincts. men don't. women have different hormone levels than men. these all drive behaviors and responses. my point is we should not try to pretend these differences do not exist, we should acknowledge them and figure out how to work around them.
but see this is different than what I was saying...I've learned that those stereotypes and generalizations mean nothing...some of my girlfriends would rather die lost in the desert than ask directions.
there's an interesting (though only tangentially relevant) article i recently came across. im unconvinced by much of it, but it does contain one statement i feel like should be attached to every post i make (edited slightly to make it less specific):
"Obviously, these are gross generalizations. Nobody believes Michael Jackson could beat up kung-fu star Jackie Chan or that comedienne Margaret Cho is lovelier than Sports Illustrated swimsuit covergirl Tyra Banks. BUT LIFE IS A GAME OF PROBABILITIES, NOT OF ABSTRACT PLATONIC ESSENCES."
that is why the fact that you can think of some friends who don't fit that stereotypes does not matter. stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason... becos they are notable behaviors common to various groups. when you use them to hold people hostage or demean them, that is bad and irresponsible. but there is nothing wrong with speaking in generalities per se... in fact, that is what the entire discipline of sociology is about. it is how we do marketing and pr. it is why there is debate now over whether or not obama can take enough of the latino vote from hillary to win. not becos anyone noting that trend is a dirty racist or becos every latino will vote for hillary: becos it is a notable and substantive trend that is useful for planning and adjusting various behavior strategies.
and to demonstrate that this is what i am doing, and that i am not actually a hateful sexist bastard, here's a link to a humorous website based on stereotypes that i actually think is completely true and excoriates MEN in the same fashion you all feel i do women:
women have maternal instincts. men don't. women have different hormone levels than men. these all drive behaviors and responses. my point is we should not try to pretend these differences do not exist, we should acknowledge them and figure out how to work around them.
I never said these difference don't exist. As someone that struggles with female hormonal problems, I think it's often understated. I just disagree with your very harsh view of relationships between men and women.
dude, that's some dumb web site put together by people who happen to share the same f-ed up view of the world with you!
Pretty much every guy I know is "nice." By your theory, none of them would ever have women, and since most men I know are married, that's obviously not the case.
I never said these difference don't exist. As someone that struggles with female hormonal problems, I think it's often understated. I just disagree with your very harsh view of relationships between men and women.
that's simply a difference of perspective. maybe you're a glass is half full kind of person, and im the half empty type. it doesn't mean either of us is wrong. just that we've had different experiences which lead me to be more pessimistic than you. and before you say that distorts my view and makes me overly negative, perhaps your optimism makes your view overly rosy. they're probably both true and both false.
dude, that's some dumb web site put together by people who happen to share the same f-ed up view of the world with you!
Pretty much every guy I know is "nice." By your theory, none of them would ever have women, and since most men I know are married, that's obviously not the case.
cant be bothered to respond to anything else in my post?
yes, it's a dumb wesbite. it's intended to be only half serious, as i am. it vents by exaggerating what is, at heart, true and honest observations. why do we laugh at standup comedy, or any comedy? becos we identify with it somewhat. it reveals our foibles and explodes them to ridiculous proportions. but we laugh becos at heart, we know there is truth in it.
and for the record, whatever you want to say about that website, it is true. "Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure." that is a perfect description of my last relationship. with me in the bad half and my ex in the good.
that is why the fact that you can think of some friends who don't fit that stereotypes does not matter. stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason... becos they are notable behaviors common to various groups. when you use them to hold people hostage or demean them, that is bad and irresponsible. but there is nothing wrong with speaking in generalities per se... in fact, that is what the entire discipline of sociology is about. it is how we do marketing and pr. it is why there is debate now over whether or not obama can take enough of the latino vote from hillary to win. not becos anyone noting that trend is a dirty racist or becos every latino will vote for hillary: becos it is a notable and substantive trend that is useful for planning and adjusting various behavior strategies.
That I agree with. We can't take note of every single different response/behaviour of mankind so we make a generalisation of what human kind does to encompass the majority. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but sometimes its used as a 'rule of thumb' philosophy.
(And that's how I meant the men and directions thing to be taken!)
Comments
dont dodge the question. you just said men and women act differently sometimes, didnt you?
yup.
I didnt think anybody denied that. Of course men and women act differently sometimes. If a woman is lost she'll ask someone for directions. Men don't. Affects their ego or something.
2007 ░▒▓ London, Dusseldorf, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
2009 ░▒▓ Manchester, London
2010 ░▒▓ Hyde Park
*§* Music is all the juice i'll need *§*
I wasn't dodging the question. I'm talking biology, instincts, physicality-Wash brought up "nature". my point was that there are obvious physical differences between males and females. Women have maternal instincts, so they are obviously protectors in that regard (but as a woman I can say that these instincts don't stick just to offspring or children-when anyone I care about, often men, are upset or hurt, it is my instinct to help and take care of them. You can feel where it's stemming from, the need to protect-and I actually read that this is even more pronounced in oldest children with younger brothers, like myself). Men are bigger so they are obviously protectors in that regard. I don't think either sex has a predetermined nature to be "submissive" though. If an individual behaves as such that is either 1) a "nurture" as opposed to nature issue and 2) just who that individual is.
but see this is different than what I was saying...I've learned that those stereotypes and generalizations mean nothing...some of my girlfriends would rather die lost in the desert than ask directions.
it was really sweet she told me that......
yet i am crucified anytime i say that becos my tone is less forgiving and i am more critical and honest about when those differences are negative.
i have no problem asking for directions. but i dont get all fired up and pissed off and defensive when women say that. why? becos it's generally true and for all the reasons they offer it. even if it doesn't apply to me, i can recognize and admit the truth at the heart of it.
women have maternal instincts. men don't. women have different hormone levels than men. these all drive behaviors and responses. my point is we should not try to pretend these differences do not exist, we should acknowledge them and figure out how to work around them.
there's an interesting (though only tangentially relevant) article i recently came across. im unconvinced by much of it, but it does contain one statement i feel like should be attached to every post i make (edited slightly to make it less specific):
"Obviously, these are gross generalizations. Nobody believes Michael Jackson could beat up kung-fu star Jackie Chan or that comedienne Margaret Cho is lovelier than Sports Illustrated swimsuit covergirl Tyra Banks. BUT LIFE IS A GAME OF PROBABILITIES, NOT OF ABSTRACT PLATONIC ESSENCES."
that is why the fact that you can think of some friends who don't fit that stereotypes does not matter. stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason... becos they are notable behaviors common to various groups. when you use them to hold people hostage or demean them, that is bad and irresponsible. but there is nothing wrong with speaking in generalities per se... in fact, that is what the entire discipline of sociology is about. it is how we do marketing and pr. it is why there is debate now over whether or not obama can take enough of the latino vote from hillary to win. not becos anyone noting that trend is a dirty racist or becos every latino will vote for hillary: becos it is a notable and substantive trend that is useful for planning and adjusting various behavior strategies.
and to demonstrate that this is what i am doing, and that i am not actually a hateful sexist bastard, here's a link to a humorous website based on stereotypes that i actually think is completely true and excoriates MEN in the same fashion you all feel i do women:
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml
here's the link to the article i quoted from above.
http://www.isteve.com/IsLoveColorblind.htm
I never said these difference don't exist. As someone that struggles with female hormonal problems, I think it's often understated. I just disagree with your very harsh view of relationships between men and women.
dude, that's some dumb web site put together by people who happen to share the same f-ed up view of the world with you!
Pretty much every guy I know is "nice." By your theory, none of them would ever have women, and since most men I know are married, that's obviously not the case.
that's simply a difference of perspective. maybe you're a glass is half full kind of person, and im the half empty type. it doesn't mean either of us is wrong. just that we've had different experiences which lead me to be more pessimistic than you. and before you say that distorts my view and makes me overly negative, perhaps your optimism makes your view overly rosy. they're probably both true and both false.
cant be bothered to respond to anything else in my post?
yes, it's a dumb wesbite. it's intended to be only half serious, as i am. it vents by exaggerating what is, at heart, true and honest observations. why do we laugh at standup comedy, or any comedy? becos we identify with it somewhat. it reveals our foibles and explodes them to ridiculous proportions. but we laugh becos at heart, we know there is truth in it.
and for the record, whatever you want to say about that website, it is true. "Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure." that is a perfect description of my last relationship. with me in the bad half and my ex in the good.
That I agree with. We can't take note of every single different response/behaviour of mankind so we make a generalisation of what human kind does to encompass the majority. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but sometimes its used as a 'rule of thumb' philosophy.
(And that's how I meant the men and directions thing to be taken!)
2007 ░▒▓ London, Dusseldorf, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
2009 ░▒▓ Manchester, London
2010 ░▒▓ Hyde Park
*§* Music is all the juice i'll need *§*
taylor rain before the gang bang?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce