My girlfriends younger brother wants to get his tongue pierced

facepollution

Heineken Helen wrote:

Ok, being a few years older than you I DO recall something about one or other ear pierced meant you were gay, this thread seems to confirm that it was the right ear. But the fact anyone younger than me on this thread doesn't seem to have heard of that means that the OP IS in fact living back in the 80s

Also, first time I've heard of tongue piercing indicating homosexuality NEVER ever heard that one before.

I think the tongue piercing/homosexuality thing just comes from the association of girls having it to give good head - so for some people the logic follows that if a guy gets it done it must be for the same reason. In some ways I don't know why people are so shocked by someone believing that. Even now in our far more liberal society, I still hear young kids insulting each other by calling each other gay, in the same way that people used to when I was in school over ten years ago.

Not to defend the original poster, but I'm sure plenty of people here quite unknowingly subscribe to certain stereotypes without even realising it. I don't think that necessarily makes them a bad person. I think it's more important to pose the question "and so what if he was gay - why would that matter?". All I'm saying is that I can understand how someone who has no real understanding of why people get pierced would come to the conclusion that certain types of piercing are associated with sexuality, because that is a myth often perpetuated by society world over. The implication that homosexuality is wrong, is the more important issue here, rather than someone blindly believing a fairly common stereotype - two seperate issues.

surfanddestroy

facepollution wrote:

I think the tongue piercing/homosexuality thing just comes from the association of girls having it to give good head - so for some people the logic follows that if a guy gets it done it must be for the same reason. In some ways I don't know why people are so shocked by someone believing that. Even now in our far more liberal society, I still hear young kids insulting each other by calling each other gay, in the same way that people used to when I was in school over ten years ago.

Not to defend the original poster, but I'm sure plenty of people here quite unknowingly subscribe to certain stereotypes without even realising it. I don't think that necessarily makes them a bad person. I think it's more important to pose the question "and so what if he was gay - why would that matter?". All I'm saying is that I can understand how someone who has no real understanding of why people get pierced would come to the conclusion that certain types of piercing are associated with sexuality, because that is a myth often perpetuated by society world over. The implication that homosexuality is wrong, is the more important issue here, rather than someone blindly believing a fairly common stereotype - two seperate issues.

The issue here is that the original poster is extremely ignorant and needs to learn not to throw passing judgements around.

Heineken Helen

facepollution wrote:

I think the tongue piercing/homosexuality thing just comes from the association of girls having it to give good head - so for some people the logic follows that if a guy gets it done it must be for the same reason. In some ways I don't know why people are so shocked by someone believing that. Even now in our far more liberal society, I still hear young kids insulting each other by calling each other gay, in the same way that people used to when I was in school over ten years ago. .

See it makes more sense to assume that because women get them for oral sex, men get them for the same reason... but nowhere in there would it occur to me that it was for oral sex on other men this really is the first time I've heard it.

facepollution wrote:

Not to defend the original poster, but I'm sure plenty of people here quite unknowingly subscribe to certain stereotypes without even realising it. I don't think that necessarily makes them a bad person. I think it's more important to pose the question "and so what if he was gay - why would that matter?". All I'm saying is that I can understand how someone who has no real understanding of why people get pierced would come to the conclusion that certain types of piercing are associated with sexuality, because that is a myth often perpetuated by society world over. The implication that homosexuality is wrong, is the more important issue here, rather than someone blindly believing a fairly common stereotype - two seperate issues.

I have no real understandings of piercings but still never heard that one... and like I said, I heard the ear one alright. People who HAVE understandings of piercings haven't heard it either. It's just this is the first time that I, and not just me evidentally, have heard of this as a 'common assumption'. As far as the PC argument goes, I'm pretty un and anti PC myself and I'm not even going down that route right now... but just saying that I've never heard this.

facepollution

surfanddestroy wrote:

The issue here is that the original poster is extremely ignorant and needs to learn not to throw passing judgements around.

Yeah I agree, but the ignorance is more his implication that being gay is wrong, not subscribing to a stupid belief about piercings and sexuality - I think we've already established that their is some basis for the belief - however ridiculous it is. Had he came on here and asked the question "is a guy deemed gay if he gets his tongue pierced" you could forgive him for just asking a silly question.

Sian-of-the-dead

surfanddestroy wrote:

The issue here is that the original poster is extremely ignorant and needs to learn not to throw passing judgements around.

facepollution wrote:

Yeah I agree, but the ignorance is more his implication that being gay is wrong, not subscribing to a stupid belief about piercings and sexuality - I think we've already established that their is some basis for the belief - however ridiculous it is. Had he came on here and asked the question "is a guy deemed gay if he gets his tongue pierced" you could forgive him for just asking a silly question.

two points very well made.

facepollution

Heineken Helen wrote:

I have no real understandings of piercings but still never heard that one... and like I said, I heard the ear one alright. People who HAVE understandings of piercings haven't heard it either. It's just this is the first time that I, and not just me evidentally, have heard of this as a 'common assumption'. As far as the PC argument goes, I'm pretty un and anti PC myself and I'm not even going down that route right now... but just saying that I've never heard this.

I would say it's just as common an assumtion, as it is 'women ONLY get it done for head giving purposes'. It's a harsh assumption and clearly not true, but I guess if you get a bar shoved through your tongue people will make assumptions, and you have no control over that.

I find it interesting that you say you're anti PC, and I know you said you don't want to go there, but would you say all prejudices are equal? People jump all over issues like sexuality and race and stuff, while other forms of prejudice are widely accepted, like people having ginger hair, which is no less a physical characteristic than skin colour.

I don't know if it's because of where I live (basically it's a bit of an over-flow from east London), but I still encounter racism and homophobia on a huge level almost on a daily basis. It kind of shocks me that in today's day and age people still think it's acceptable to use words like 'paki' in conversation.

Jennytree

Jaysis, this thread has gone mad since I last looked.

I must be totally gay - I have two right ear piercings.

I must be even more gay cos one of the piercings is stretched to 8mm

Oh noes!

I must take out ALL my piercings to fit in with the straight society... get the fuckin boat!

Heineken Helen

facepollution wrote:

I would say it's just as common an assumtion, as it is 'women ONLY get it done for head giving purposes'. It's a harsh assumption and clearly not true, but I guess if you get a bar shoved through your tongue people will make assumptions, and you have no control over that.

I find it interesting that you say you're anti PC, and I know you said you don't want to go there, but would you say all prejudices are equal? People jump all over issues like sexuality and race and stuff, while other forms of prejudice are widely accepted, like people having ginger hair, which is no less a physical characteristic than skin colour.

I don't know if it's because of where I live (basically it's a bit of an over-flow from east London), but I still encounter racism and homophobia on a huge level almost on a daily basis. It kind of shocks me that in today's day and age people still think it's acceptable to use words like 'paki' in conversation.

I've tried to bring up this topic a few times but the thread always gets locked so let's not veer from the topic. Let's just say there is very very little politically correct about me. There are some things that I may get a little offended by but I have to look at it from an outsider point of view... and once i realise that it's only words, well then it's absolutely ridiculous to get offended by. I think the fact that you're NOT allowed say certain words is just as offensive as using them, if ya know what I mean and it GIVES those words the hardness and stigma that they don't actually deserve. I think we should all be able to say whatever we want and none of it would be a big deal at all. That's just to answer your question, but again, let's not go down this route!

facepollution

Heineken Helen wrote:

I've tried to bring up this topic a few times but the thread always gets locked so let's not veer from the topic. Let's just say there is very very little politically correct about me. There are some things that I may get a little offended by but I have to look at it from an outsider point of view... and once i realise that it's only words, well then it's absolutely ridiculous to get offended by. I think the fact that you're NOT allowed say certain words is just as offensive as using them, if ya know what I mean and it GIVES those words the hardness and stigma that they don't actually deserve. I think we should all be able to say whatever we want and none of it would be a big deal at all. That's just to answer your question, but again, let's not go down this route!

Ah you've got me interested now! I do understand what you are saying, but I guess it depends how words are meant. I'll take the example of the word 'Paki', I'm sure it started out as a quite innocent term, after all it is just a shortening of the word 'Pakistani', but over the years it became used as a derogatory term. When I hear people use it, it is quite clear that they are implying the person is a lesser being - I find that offensive.

Heineken Helen

facepollution wrote:

Ah you've got me interested now! I do understand what you are saying, but I guess it depends how words are meant. I'll take the example of the word 'Paki', I'm sure it started out as a quite innocent term, after all it is just a shortening of the word 'Pakistani', but over the years it became used as a derogatory term. When I hear people use it, it is quite clear that they are implying the person is a lesser being - I find that offensive.

So assholes can change the meaning of the word? Nah, I'm not gonna let them. Just because a word has become something it's not, doesn't mean we should ban the use of the word altogether but perhaps refuse to be offended and then they will no longer OWN that word. I've been called Paddy, sometimes in jest, sometimes intended as an insult. If it's in jest, I laugh and know the person meant nothing wrong, if it's intended as an insult well it's a bit of a pathetic attempt really... what? A word? You think you can sting me with that? Come ON!

Jennytree

Heineken Helen wrote:

So assholes can change the meaning of the word? Nah, I'm not gonna let them. Just because a word has become something it's not, doesn't mean we should ban the use of the word altogether but perhaps refuse to be offended and then they will no longer OWN that word. I've been called Paddy, sometimes in jest, sometimes intended as an insult. If it's in jest, I laugh and know the person meant nothing wrong, if it's intended as an insult well it's a bit of a pathetic attempt really... what? A word? You think you can sting me with that? Come ON!

Telling people to refuse to be offended by a word can be just as bad. People can be offended by what they like, and I for one, will respect their decision. I'm not gonna call somebody a name just because you think they shouldn't be offended by it. Not everyone thinks like you, hellsbells!

Jeremy1012

Jennytree wrote:

Telling people to refuse to be offended by a word can be just as bad. People can be offended by what they like, and I for one, will respect their decision. I'm not gonna call somebody a name just because you think they shouldn't be offended by it. Not everyone thinks like you, hellsbells!

The most intelligent post in this whole damn thread. I'm with ya Jenny

Heineken Helen

Jennytree wrote:

Telling people to refuse to be offended by a word can be just as bad. People can be offended by what they like, and I for one, will respect their decision. I'm not gonna call somebody a name just because you think they shouldn't be offended by it. Not everyone thinks like you, hellsbells!

I know that... where in my sentence did I say we should MAKE people refuse to be offended? I said it works for me and I'd like if it worked for everyone. I don't go around offending people who I don't know or who I know won't see the funny side... but I don't have much time for people who are easily offended anyway! PC is gone completely ridiculous these days... and people can find almost anything you say offensive... in fact I'm sure someone will find offense in this post :( . People are just FAR too uptight.

Jennytree

Jeremy1012 wrote:

The most intelligent post in this whole damn thread. I'm with ya Jenny

woohoo... I win! *high five*

Heineken Helen wrote:

I know that... where in my sentence did I say we should MAKE people refuse to be offended? I said it works for me and I'd like if it worked for everyone. I don't go around offending people who I don't know or who I know won't see the funny side... but I don't have much time for people who are easily offended anyway! PC is gone completely ridiculous these days... and people can find almost anything you say offensive... in fact I'm sure someone will find offense in this post :( . People are just FAR too uptight.

damn right its offensive ye hariy-titted cuntbag!

Jeremy1012

Heineken Helen wrote:

I know that... where in my sentence did I say we should MAKE people refuse to be offended? I said it works for me and I'd like if it worked for everyone. I don't go around offending people who I don't know or who I know won't see the funny side... but I don't have much time for people who are easily offended anyway! PC is gone completely ridiculous these days... and people can find almost anything you say offensive... in fact I'm sure someone will find offense in this post :( . People are just FAR too uptight.

I don't think Jenny was saying that you ARE trying to make people refuse to be offended Hels I think she was saying that even expecting them to is not really yours, or anyone else's place. I know you said that you aren't offended by "paddy" but that doesn't mean that a person who does take offence to being called "paki" or a "fag" because they have an earring in the wrong ear (thread integrity moment ) should feel like they are too uptight by being offended. Some prejudice comes with a whole weight of historical and cultural meaning that you or I probably couldn't pass judgment on whether or not it is ok to be offended by it. I mean, just how much real abuse have you taken about being irish? It's probably not the same.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I still loves you

Heineken Helen

Jeremy1012 wrote:

I don't think Jenny was saying that you ARE trying to make people refuse to be offended Hels I think she was saying that even expecting them to is not really yours, or anyone else's place. I know you said that you aren't offended by "paddy" but that doesn't mean that a person who does take offence to being called "paki" or a "fag" because they have an earring in the wrong ear (thread integrity moment ) should feel like they are too uptight by being offended. Some prejudice comes with a whole weight of historical and cultural meaning that you or I probably couldn't pass judgment on whether or not it is ok to be offended by it. I mean, just how much real abuse have you taken about being irish? It's probably not the same.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I still loves you

I've gotten a good bit... I used to drink in the north quite a bit and went into the wrong pub on a few occasions... I've seen a good bit of hate in my time. You can CHOOSE to be offended OR you can see how ignorant the person really is. I just don't have much time for either those who offend or those who take offense. But that's just me apparently. There's too much time wasted on hate.

dunkman

Jennytree wrote:

damn right its offensive ye hariy-titted cuntbag!

tee hee.. you said "damn" :eek:

Heineken Helen

dunkman wrote:

tee hee.. you said "damn" :eek:

:mad: you said 'hee' :eek: Fucker

I've heard that's offensive to swahilians

facepollution

Heineken Helen wrote:

I've gotten a good bit... I used to drink in the north quite a bit and went into the wrong pub on a few occasions... I've seen a good bit of hate in my time. You can CHOOSE to be offended OR you can see how ignorant the person really is. I just don't have much time for either those who offend or those who take offense. But that's just me apparently. There's too much time wasted on hate.

I understand about choosing to be offended, and that you don't have to give power to words, but I think context is relevant. For example one of my so called friends called me a cunt the other week cause I dared to call him selfish. Ordinarily I wouldn't bat an eyelid if he called me a cunt, becuase I know it's usually meant as a joke, but on this occassion he did mean it and I was offended by it - not by the word, but by the intent.

Jeremy1012

Heineken Helen wrote:

I've gotten a good bit... I used to drink in the north quite a bit and went into the wrong pub on a few occasions... I've seen a good bit of hate in my time. You can CHOOSE to be offended OR you can see how ignorant the person really is. I just don't have much time for either those who offend or those who take offense. But that's just me apparently. There's too much time wasted on hate.

ah ok, sectarian stuff is a WHOLE other can of worms. I agree, the principal behind that sort of abuse is so ridiculous that you can't help but laugh at it, unless of course you're being dragged into waste ground and cut up for going into the wrong pub...

All I'm saying is, everyone has the right to take offense. I've been called many things intended as insults over the past including "scotch cunt", even though I have a very weak accent and have lived here my whole life, and I just laughed if off. The idea of being insulted for being scottish is pretty hilarious when the problem doesn't run particularly deep. On the other hand, the only time in my life when I have genuinely wanted to kill someone was over christmas when a guy started insulting some of my friends and then being threatening towards them. Calling them "dirty skanks" nearly angered me into doing something very stupid, especially when the guy started squaring up to a pair of girls. There are levels of offensiveness and some provoke more of a reaction than others. You are seemingly immune to that which is good for you, you'll probably never have a heart attack I reserve my right to indignation though. If people never react, guys like pjoasisrule will go about telling people not to get piercings in certain places because "lolz, that makes you a phag".