If one person is offended at all by something someone says, reprimands must happen. In a work situation, she could be fired for that. Its unfortunate that an offended person can't just say "I found that really offensive..." rather than run to the Human Rights or whatever department to have the person fired or reprimanded...
While your nieces actions were funny, it could completely be taken out of context and be considered to be in very poor taste and very offensive...and yeah, could get you a suspension from school.
OFFENDED BY WHAT!?!?!?!
what was remotely offensive? she insulted the military? first off, no she didn't, second, no way in holy hell that would get you fired. the judge would laugh you out of court if you tried to say you were offended.
If one person is offended at all by something someone says, reprimands must happen. In a work situation, she could be fired for that. Its unfortunate that an offended person can't just say "I found that really offensive..." rather than run to the Human Rights or whatever department to have the person fired or reprimanded...
While your nieces actions were funny, it could completely be taken out of context and be considered to be in very poor taste and very offensive...and yeah, could get you a suspension from school.
agreed
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
oh damnit, i said "mankind" instead of something more gender neutral like "people". please, ladies, dont be offended that i would use such a male chauvanist term. i really like my job.
I went to Rosary for like 1 1/2 years!!!! (didnt work...boys liked the uniform.)
thank GOD I got to go back to the public school!
she goes to school in HB...some stupid sounding one...something view...or lake...lake view? mountain view? hillview?? lake hill???
some shit like that.
Ocean View?
So you were a Rosary hottie eh? hehehe
My parents almost sent me to Servite. I bombed the interview, they got pissed, but I was happy, then I got recruited to play basketball in Arizona, so it didn't matter in the end anyway. However I did get to come back for my senior year and go to Loara.
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
what was remotely offensive? she insulted the military? first off, no she didn't, second, no way in holy hell that would get you fired. the judge would laugh you out of court if you tried to say you were offended.
What might be offensive to one person might be funny to another, especially with the school's zero tolerance policy. That's why I said if it was harmful to another student a possible suspension would be warranted. Students have to be careful of their action these days with all the many shootings in school.
An expulsion was ridiculous.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
You have offended me. who do i contact in regards to getting you fired?
please, explain this logic to me.
God how i hate political correctness. its a plague on mankind.
I hate PC more than anyone in here; I thought that was the point, is you should tell the person you are offended, rather than taking it to such a drastic level. It should end there.
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
what was remotely offensive? she insulted the military? first off, no she didn't, second, no way in holy hell that would get you fired. the judge would laugh you out of court if you tried to say you were offended.
Whoa - I'm not offended...but someone else could be very easily...maybe they have a relative who fought in Viet Nam and they misinterpreted what your niece did.
Like what others are saying...what she said could be percieved as offensive by anyone who is sensitive to whatever they read into her statement.
Where I work, my boss tried to reprimanded for being sarcastic, but could not come up with an example - she said "I was offended by SOMETHING you said, I just can't remember what it was", and one of my co-workers was repremanded for quoting something someone else said that could have been misinterpreted as racist (but no shop steward was present, so it can't be considered to be a reprimand). We had the Workplace mediation people come and give us a big stupid speil on what you can or cannot say in the workplace...and although I laughed at the thought of someone complaining behind my back about something I said, I was sternly told that the reprimand could include termination.
I agree that North America has become so overly PC - and it bugs the crap out of me!
It would seem that the principal of the school overreacted and reacted to swiftly without getting all the facts or giving your niece to say, "I'm sorry that what I said offended you" which is NOT apologizing for what she did or said...
Um what the heck kind of joke is that? It's extremely racist. How old is she? I dunno if the punishment is appropriate but what she said is really out of line IMO.
its not racist at all. Charlie is short for Victor Charles, or Victor Charlie, which is what the military called the Viet Cong in Nam.
if she would have said "gooks are in the trees"!!! or "dinks are in the trees"
that could be taken as racist, because those are derogitory terms for vietnamese people.
Victor Charlie is not. just like they would say Lima Zulu instead of Landing Zone.
do some homework on the subject b4 you start calling a kid a racist.
Peace, Love.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
expulsion for referencing a war? I guess if she said "nigger" they'd stone her to death or something.
really, that's ridiculous. at the MOST, a teacher or principal should have told her simply not to make statements like that....even though there's nothing wrong with the statement she made. but if they don't want stuff like that, they surely can tell her to stop. but to expel her? there has to be more to it than just the "Charlie in the trees" line
right on. you know how many kids i hear say "towel head" now? tons.
give me a fucking break. school systems are wound so fucking tight now that its not even funny.
Peace, Love.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
It was most definitely an overreaction. It sounds like it will be corrected though. Hopefully your niece learns something from all this and the administrators as well. She sounds like a cool kid.
"I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
Whoa - I'm not offended...but someone else could be very easily...maybe they have a relative who fought in Viet Nam and they misinterpreted what your niece did.
Like what others are saying...what she said could be percieved as offensive by anyone who is sensitive to whatever they read into her statement.
Where I work, my boss tried to reprimanded for being sarcastic, but could not come up with an example - she said "I was offended by SOMETHING you said, I just can't remember what it was", and one of my co-workers was repremanded for quoting something someone else said that could have been misinterpreted as racist (but no shop steward was present, so it can't be considered to be a reprimand). We had the Workplace mediation people come and give us a big stupid speil on what you can or cannot say in the workplace...and although I laughed at the thought of someone complaining behind my back about something I said, I was sternly told that the reprimand could include termination.
I agree that North America has become so overly PC - and it bugs the crap out of me!
It would seem that the principal of the school overreacted and reacted to swiftly without getting all the facts or giving your niece to say, "I'm sorry that what I said offended you" which is NOT apologizing for what she did or said...
i didnt mean you. i'm just trying to figure out why anyone could be offended. its not racist, sexist, anti-anything. its a scene out of Forrest Gump for Christsakes! is it the Columbine angle? thats a huuuuge stretch.
i think its a terrible example to set for kids that they should watch every word they say for fear that some uninformed idiot could be offended and cost them there job/education.
America I've given you all and now I'm nothing.
America two dollars and twenty-seven cents January 17, 1956.
I can't stand my own mind.
America when will we end the human war?
Go fuck yourself with your atom bomb
I don't feel good don't bother me.
I won't write my poem till I'm in my right mind.
America when will you be angelic?
When will you take off your clothes?
When will you look at yourself through the grave?
When will you be worthy of your million Trotskyites?
America why are your libraries full of tears?
America when will you send your eggs to India?
I'm sick of your insane demands.
When can I go into the supermarket and buy what I need with my good looks?
America after all it is you and I who are perfect not the next world.
Your machinery is too much for me.
You made me want to be a saint.
There must be some other way to settle this argument.
Burroughs is in Tangiers I don't think he'll come back it's sinister.
Are you being sinister or is this some form of practical joke?
I'm trying to come to the point.
I refuse to give up my obsession.
America stop pushing I know what I'm doing.
America the plum blossoms are falling.
I haven't read the newspapers for months, everyday somebody goes on trial for
murder.
America I feel sentimental about the Wobblies.
America I used to be a communist when I was a kid and I'm not sorry.
I smoke marijuana every chance I get.
I sit in my house for days on end and stare at the roses in the closet.
When I go to Chinatown I get drunk and never get laid.
My mind is made up there's going to be trouble.
You should have seen me reading Marx.
My psychoanalyst thinks I'm perfectly right.
I won't say the Lord's Prayer.
I have mystical visions and cosmic vibrations.
America I still haven't told you what you did to Uncle Max after he came over
from Russia.
I'm addressing you.
Are you going to let our emotional life be run by Time Magazine?
I'm obsessed by Time Magazine.
I read it every week.
Its cover stares at me every time I slink past the corner candystore.
I read it in the basement of the Berkeley Public Library.
It's always telling me about responsibility. Businessmen are serious. Movie
producers are serious. Everybody's serious but me.
It occurs to me that I am America.
I am talking to myself again.
Asia is rising against me.
I haven't got a chinaman's chance.
I'd better consider my national resources.
My national resources consist of two joints of marijuana millions of genitals
an unpublishable private literature that goes 1400 miles and hour and
twentyfivethousand mental institutions.
I say nothing about my prisons nor the millions of underpriviliged who live in
my flowerpots under the light of five hundred suns.
I have abolished the whorehouses of France, Tangiers is the next to go.
My ambition is to be President despite the fact that I'm a Catholic.
America how can I write a holy litany in your silly mood?
I will continue like Henry Ford my strophes are as individual as his
automobiles more so they're all different sexes
America I will sell you strophes $2500 apiece $500 down on your old strophe
America free Tom Mooney
America save the Spanish Loyalists
America Sacco & Vanzetti must not die
America I am the Scottsboro boys.
America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell meetings they
sold us garbanzos a handful per ticket a ticket costs a nickel and the
speeches were free everybody was angelic and sentimental about the
workers it was all so sincere you have no idea what a good thing the party
was in 1935 Scott Nearing was a grand old man a real mensch Mother
Bloor made me cry I once saw Israel Amter plain. Everybody must have
been a spy.
America you don're really want to go to war.
America it's them bad Russians.
Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians.
The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia's power mad. She wants to take
our cars from out our garages.
Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader's Digest. her wants our
auto plants in Siberia. Him big bureaucracy running our fillingstations.
That no good. Ugh. Him makes Indians learn read. Him need big black niggers.
Hah. Her make us all work sixteen hours a day. Help.
America this is quite serious.
America this is the impression I get from looking in the television set.
America is this correct?
I'd better get right down to the job.
It's true I don't want to join the Army or turn lathes in precision parts
factories, I'm nearsighted and psychopathic anyway.
America I'm putting my queer shoulder to the wheel.
The expulsion is stupid, but it doesn't surprise me to hear of it. It seems that, in the States, every other week a kid is getting expelled for bringing a plastic butter knife in their lunch, or dying their hair bright red, etc.
And if she ever wanted to someday join law enforcement or work in a sensitive government position, an expulsion on her record could mean the difference in whether or not she clears a background check.
One has to wonder if these school officials realize that they're basically playing with peoples' futures.
And if she ever wanted to someday join law enforcement or work in a sensitive government position, an expulsion on her record could mean the difference in whether or not she clears a background check.
One has to wonder if these school officials realize that they're basically playing with peoples' futures.
Very good point.
"I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
If things don't work out in your favor tomorrow, be sure to post the school, school district, and name of the superintendant so that Jammers can take action.
do some homework on the subject b4 you start calling a kid a racist.
It is racist. It's a label cast upon the enemy in order to dehumanize them. Labeling makes it easier to pull the trigger. This is the same reason Al Qaeda labels Americans and Israelis as Zionists or infidels or US troops call them hajjis or sandgooks or whatever...
Consider this: you're visiting a place where you'll encounter a member of the Viet Cong in a peaceful public place. This could be a marketplace in Vietnam, or a public school in America (yes, they've immigrated here too). Which label is appropriate to cast on him?
1. Gook
2. Dink
3. Charlie
4. None of the above
Anyhow, her act is perpetuating hate speech, and it's got no place in public schools. I'd say a reprimand is warranted (especially since she likely doesn't understand the full meaning of her joke, as many of the people on this board don't), but an expulsion is too severe. A suspension and a letter of apology would be more appropriate.
Anyhow, her act is perpetuating hate speech, and it's got no place in public schools.
You just revealed to the forum that you can't tell the difference between a racial slur and a nickname.
The 1st Special Forces Detachment -D also goes under the name "Delta Force" because "Delta" is army talk for "D".
Under your rationale, whenever people refer to "D" Detachment of the 1st Special Forces as "Delta Force", they are being racist.
"Gook" and "Dink" have absolutely nothing to do with the official title of the communist vietnamese militia. Charlie is a direct reference to that offical title. Again, this was explained already.
It is racist. It's a label cast upon the enemy in order to dehumanize them. Labeling makes it easier to pull the trigger. This is the same reason Al Qaeda labels Americans and Israelis as Zionists or infidels or US troops call them hajjis or sandgooks or whatever...
Consider this: you're visiting a place where you'll encounter a member of the Viet Cong in a peaceful public place. This could be a marketplace in Vietnam, or a public school in America (yes, they've immigrated here too). Which label is appropriate to cast on him?
1. Gook
2. Dink
3. Charlie
4. None of the above
Anyhow, her act is perpetuating hate speech, and it's got no place in public schools. I'd say a reprimand is warranted (especially since she likely doesn't understand the full meaning of her joke, as many of the people on this board don't), but an expulsion is too severe. A suspension and a letter of apology would be more appropriate.
like i myself, and a few others posted, it had nothing to do with our troops trying to dehumanize the enemy. it was military code talke for the radio's , so the enemy if listening could not decipher the message. Viet Cong became Victor Charles, and or Victor Charlie, and finally just Charlie, Charles, or Chuck.
ive worked with Nam vets, and have had many discussions with them doing research for a book. Most Vietnam vets think calling them Gooks , Dinks, as an insult to a worthy enemy. but Victor Charlie , or any of the other forms of that, acceptable , and actually feel it shows the enemy respect.
im sorry. im 35 years old and became facinated with the Vietnam war and the whole era, when i was only 12. its something i have strong feelings for.
and like i said, Most, of the Vets ive been around and have talked to would tell you the same thing. nothing racist about it. it was just military code talk. Like Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, and so on all the way to Zulu.
but of course, walking up to a vietnamese person and saying "hey Charlie" would not be cool. i get what you saying. but that was not the context in which the 15 year old girl was saying it. she was saying it in a Military context.
Peace, Love.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
You just revealed to the forum that you can't tell the difference between a racial slur and a nickname.
The 1st Special Forces Detachment -D also goes under the name "Delta Force" because "Delta" is army talk for "D".
Under your rationale, whenever people refer to "D" Detachment of the 1st Special Forces as "Delta Force", they are being racist.
"Gook" and "Dink" have absolutely nothing to do with the official title of the communist vietnamese militia. Charlie is a direct reference to that offical title. Again, this was explained already.
Not at all. It's the labeling itself that's offensive. If you want to address someone as Viet Cong, then call them that. It should be pretty clear what's acceptable and what is not acceptable to say based upon what you'd say to someone's face. Charlie would not be acceptable slang to say to someone's face, so it shouldn't be used at all.
Even wikipedia points out : "American forces during the ensuing Vietnam War continued to refer to members of the NLF as Victor Charlie or simply Charlie, from the NATO phonetic alphabet... _This usage also tended to negate the positive connations of the organization's actual title_."
Using labels dehumanizes the fact that they're humans. And it makes it easier to pull the trigger in life or death situations, without thinking about the fact that the enemy has a mom and dad and kids too. For an enraged soldier in a wartime environment, sure, doing this kind of thing will help you survive so do what you need to do to get yourself home. For a school girl? Inappropriate.
I understand that one letter abbreviations are used for clarity in radio protocols, to prevent confusion of VC from BC or VE or BE or similiar sounding letters. This is apparently from the NATO phonetic alphabet, a term I just learned a moment ago.
Not at all. It's the labeling itself that's offensive. If you want to address someone as Viet Cong, then call them that. It should be pretty clear what's acceptable and what is not acceptable to say based upon what you'd say to someone's face. Charlie would not be acceptable slang to say to someone's face, so it shouldn't be used at all.
Even wikipedia points out : "American forces during the ensuing Vietnam War continued to refer to members of the NLF as Victor Charlie or simply Charlie, from the NATO phonetic alphabet... _This usage also tended to negate the positive connations of the organization's actual title_."
Using labels dehumanizes the fact that they're humans. And it makes it easier to pull the trigger in life or death situations, without thinking about the fact that the enemy has a mom and dad and kids too. For an enraged soldier in a wartime environment, sure, doing this kind of thing will help you survive so do what you need to do to get yourself home. For a school girl? Inappropriate.
I understand that one letter abbreviations are used for clarity in radio protocols, to prevent confusion of VC from BC or VE or BE or similiar sounding letters. This is apparently from the NATO phonetic alphabet, a term I just learned a moment ago.
well if its in Wikipedia it must be true!! : ) wiki also says my last band sold over 50 thousand copies of our debut cd. lol. WRONG.
im just saying.
like i said in my previous post, her context was not racial at all.
Peace, Love.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
like i myself, and a few others posted, it had nothing to do with our troops trying to dehumanize the enemy. it was military code talke for the radio's , so the enemy if listening could not decipher the message. Viet Cong became Victor Charles, and or Victor Charlie, and finally just Charlie, Charles, or Chuck.
ive worked with Nam vets, and have had many discussions with them doing research for a book. Most Vietnam vets think calling them Gooks , Dinks, as an insult to a worthy enemy. but Victor Charlie , or any of the other forms of that, acceptable , and actually feel it shows the enemy respect.
im sorry. im 35 years old and became facinated with the Vietnam war and the whole era, when i was only 12. its something i have strong feelings for.
and like i said, Most, of the Vets ive been around and have talked to would tell you the same thing. nothing racist about it. it was just military code talk. Like Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, and so on all the way to Zulu.
but of course, walking up to a vietnamese person and saying "hey Charlie" would not be cool. i get what you saying. but that was not the context in which the 15 year old girl was saying it. she was saying it in a Military context.
I can agree with most of what you're saying... Maybe I'm bordering on being overly sensitive. I think a part of it, too, is that it really matters who's saying it.. It a member of the Viet Cong uses the term, or a US soldier, it has very different meanings than when repeated by a school-age girl. There's a lot of emotions, and terrible and great experiences that arose from the war, and it's hard to use some of these terms in simple and light-hearted playground jokes.
Maybe she can just make stick to boy jokes like the other 15 year old girls. :-)
I can agree with most of what you're saying... Maybe I'm bordering on being overly sensitive. I think a part of it, too, is that it really matters who's saying it.. It a member of the Viet Cong uses the term, or a US soldier, it has very different meanings than when repeated by a school-age girl. There's a lot of emotions, and terrible and great experiences that arose from the war, and it's hard to use some of these terms in simple and light-hearted playground jokes.
Maybe she can just make stick to boy jokes like the other 15 year old girls. :-)
its cool. : )
Peace, Love.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
Comments
OFFENDED BY WHAT!?!?!?!
what was remotely offensive? she insulted the military? first off, no she didn't, second, no way in holy hell that would get you fired. the judge would laugh you out of court if you tried to say you were offended.
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
You have offended me. who do i contact in regards to getting you fired?
please, explain this logic to me.
God how i hate political correctness. its a plague on mankind.
Ocean View?
So you were a Rosary hottie eh? hehehe
My parents almost sent me to Servite. I bombed the interview, they got pissed, but I was happy, then I got recruited to play basketball in Arizona, so it didn't matter in the end anyway. However I did get to come back for my senior year and go to Loara.
What might be offensive to one person might be funny to another, especially with the school's zero tolerance policy. That's why I said if it was harmful to another student a possible suspension would be warranted. Students have to be careful of their action these days with all the many shootings in school.
An expulsion was ridiculous.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
That is so gay..!
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Whoa - I'm not offended...but someone else could be very easily...maybe they have a relative who fought in Viet Nam and they misinterpreted what your niece did.
Like what others are saying...what she said could be percieved as offensive by anyone who is sensitive to whatever they read into her statement.
Where I work, my boss tried to reprimanded for being sarcastic, but could not come up with an example - she said "I was offended by SOMETHING you said, I just can't remember what it was", and one of my co-workers was repremanded for quoting something someone else said that could have been misinterpreted as racist (but no shop steward was present, so it can't be considered to be a reprimand). We had the Workplace mediation people come and give us a big stupid speil on what you can or cannot say in the workplace...and although I laughed at the thought of someone complaining behind my back about something I said, I was sternly told that the reprimand could include termination.
I agree that North America has become so overly PC - and it bugs the crap out of me!
It would seem that the principal of the school overreacted and reacted to swiftly without getting all the facts or giving your niece to say, "I'm sorry that what I said offended you" which is NOT apologizing for what she did or said...
its not racist at all. Charlie is short for Victor Charles, or Victor Charlie, which is what the military called the Viet Cong in Nam.
if she would have said "gooks are in the trees"!!! or "dinks are in the trees"
that could be taken as racist, because those are derogitory terms for vietnamese people.
Victor Charlie is not. just like they would say Lima Zulu instead of Landing Zone.
do some homework on the subject b4 you start calling a kid a racist.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
hit the dirt!!!
ROFL...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
right on. you know how many kids i hear say "towel head" now? tons.
give me a fucking break. school systems are wound so fucking tight now that its not even funny.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
thats so dumb she got expelled. i luaghed like hell
Once I get out of this town
9/29/04;6/27/08;6/30/08;8/23/09;08/24/09;5/17/10
And on your watch too, classic!!!
Seriously, that's so funny for a 15 year old to come up with, she's very creative.
I'm sorry she got expelled, that's so extreme. Zero tolerance works well for a lot of situations, however, it can be pretty harsh in others.
i didnt mean you. i'm just trying to figure out why anyone could be offended. its not racist, sexist, anti-anything. its a scene out of Forrest Gump for Christsakes! is it the Columbine angle? thats a huuuuge stretch.
i think its a terrible example to set for kids that they should watch every word they say for fear that some uninformed idiot could be offended and cost them there job/education.
i probably wouldnt last a day at your job, heheh.
ha ha ! that would be great. tell him "you dinky dow SI " (superintedent)
glad they are reconsidering. keep us posted.
oh yeah.
im in the same sitiuation with my nephews as far as my sister thinking i can be a "bad influence" on them.
but, i would tell her about this for sure. cause she will find out.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
America I've given you all and now I'm nothing.
America two dollars and twenty-seven cents January 17, 1956.
I can't stand my own mind.
America when will we end the human war?
Go fuck yourself with your atom bomb
I don't feel good don't bother me.
I won't write my poem till I'm in my right mind.
America when will you be angelic?
When will you take off your clothes?
When will you look at yourself through the grave?
When will you be worthy of your million Trotskyites?
America why are your libraries full of tears?
America when will you send your eggs to India?
I'm sick of your insane demands.
When can I go into the supermarket and buy what I need with my good looks?
America after all it is you and I who are perfect not the next world.
Your machinery is too much for me.
You made me want to be a saint.
There must be some other way to settle this argument.
Burroughs is in Tangiers I don't think he'll come back it's sinister.
Are you being sinister or is this some form of practical joke?
I'm trying to come to the point.
I refuse to give up my obsession.
America stop pushing I know what I'm doing.
America the plum blossoms are falling.
I haven't read the newspapers for months, everyday somebody goes on trial for
murder.
America I feel sentimental about the Wobblies.
America I used to be a communist when I was a kid and I'm not sorry.
I smoke marijuana every chance I get.
I sit in my house for days on end and stare at the roses in the closet.
When I go to Chinatown I get drunk and never get laid.
My mind is made up there's going to be trouble.
You should have seen me reading Marx.
My psychoanalyst thinks I'm perfectly right.
I won't say the Lord's Prayer.
I have mystical visions and cosmic vibrations.
America I still haven't told you what you did to Uncle Max after he came over
from Russia.
I'm addressing you.
Are you going to let our emotional life be run by Time Magazine?
I'm obsessed by Time Magazine.
I read it every week.
Its cover stares at me every time I slink past the corner candystore.
I read it in the basement of the Berkeley Public Library.
It's always telling me about responsibility. Businessmen are serious. Movie
producers are serious. Everybody's serious but me.
It occurs to me that I am America.
I am talking to myself again.
Asia is rising against me.
I haven't got a chinaman's chance.
I'd better consider my national resources.
My national resources consist of two joints of marijuana millions of genitals
an unpublishable private literature that goes 1400 miles and hour and
twentyfivethousand mental institutions.
I say nothing about my prisons nor the millions of underpriviliged who live in
my flowerpots under the light of five hundred suns.
I have abolished the whorehouses of France, Tangiers is the next to go.
My ambition is to be President despite the fact that I'm a Catholic.
America how can I write a holy litany in your silly mood?
I will continue like Henry Ford my strophes are as individual as his
automobiles more so they're all different sexes
America I will sell you strophes $2500 apiece $500 down on your old strophe
America free Tom Mooney
America save the Spanish Loyalists
America Sacco & Vanzetti must not die
America I am the Scottsboro boys.
America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell meetings they
sold us garbanzos a handful per ticket a ticket costs a nickel and the
speeches were free everybody was angelic and sentimental about the
workers it was all so sincere you have no idea what a good thing the party
was in 1935 Scott Nearing was a grand old man a real mensch Mother
Bloor made me cry I once saw Israel Amter plain. Everybody must have
been a spy.
America you don're really want to go to war.
America it's them bad Russians.
Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians.
The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia's power mad. She wants to take
our cars from out our garages.
Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader's Digest. her wants our
auto plants in Siberia. Him big bureaucracy running our fillingstations.
That no good. Ugh. Him makes Indians learn read. Him need big black niggers.
Hah. Her make us all work sixteen hours a day. Help.
America this is quite serious.
America this is the impression I get from looking in the television set.
America is this correct?
I'd better get right down to the job.
It's true I don't want to join the Army or turn lathes in precision parts
factories, I'm nearsighted and psychopathic anyway.
America I'm putting my queer shoulder to the wheel.
Zero tolerance is the antithesis of common sense.
One has to wonder if these school officials realize that they're basically playing with peoples' futures.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
for me this ties in with kickoutthejams' thread about raising a child in this day and age...
what are schools gonna be like when/if i have kids, good gawd...
:eek:
It is racist. It's a label cast upon the enemy in order to dehumanize them. Labeling makes it easier to pull the trigger. This is the same reason Al Qaeda labels Americans and Israelis as Zionists or infidels or US troops call them hajjis or sandgooks or whatever...
Consider this: you're visiting a place where you'll encounter a member of the Viet Cong in a peaceful public place. This could be a marketplace in Vietnam, or a public school in America (yes, they've immigrated here too). Which label is appropriate to cast on him?
1. Gook
2. Dink
3. Charlie
4. None of the above
Anyhow, her act is perpetuating hate speech, and it's got no place in public schools. I'd say a reprimand is warranted (especially since she likely doesn't understand the full meaning of her joke, as many of the people on this board don't), but an expulsion is too severe. A suspension and a letter of apology would be more appropriate.
You just revealed to the forum that you can't tell the difference between a racial slur and a nickname.
The 1st Special Forces Detachment -D also goes under the name "Delta Force" because "Delta" is army talk for "D".
Under your rationale, whenever people refer to "D" Detachment of the 1st Special Forces as "Delta Force", they are being racist.
"Gook" and "Dink" have absolutely nothing to do with the official title of the communist vietnamese militia. Charlie is a direct reference to that offical title. Again, this was explained already.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
like i myself, and a few others posted, it had nothing to do with our troops trying to dehumanize the enemy. it was military code talke for the radio's , so the enemy if listening could not decipher the message. Viet Cong became Victor Charles, and or Victor Charlie, and finally just Charlie, Charles, or Chuck.
ive worked with Nam vets, and have had many discussions with them doing research for a book. Most Vietnam vets think calling them Gooks , Dinks, as an insult to a worthy enemy. but Victor Charlie , or any of the other forms of that, acceptable , and actually feel it shows the enemy respect.
im sorry. im 35 years old and became facinated with the Vietnam war and the whole era, when i was only 12. its something i have strong feelings for.
and like i said, Most, of the Vets ive been around and have talked to would tell you the same thing. nothing racist about it. it was just military code talk. Like Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, and so on all the way to Zulu.
but of course, walking up to a vietnamese person and saying "hey Charlie" would not be cool. i get what you saying. but that was not the context in which the 15 year old girl was saying it. she was saying it in a Military context.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
Not at all. It's the labeling itself that's offensive. If you want to address someone as Viet Cong, then call them that. It should be pretty clear what's acceptable and what is not acceptable to say based upon what you'd say to someone's face. Charlie would not be acceptable slang to say to someone's face, so it shouldn't be used at all.
Even wikipedia points out : "American forces during the ensuing Vietnam War continued to refer to members of the NLF as Victor Charlie or simply Charlie, from the NATO phonetic alphabet... _This usage also tended to negate the positive connations of the organization's actual title_."
Using labels dehumanizes the fact that they're humans. And it makes it easier to pull the trigger in life or death situations, without thinking about the fact that the enemy has a mom and dad and kids too. For an enraged soldier in a wartime environment, sure, doing this kind of thing will help you survive so do what you need to do to get yourself home. For a school girl? Inappropriate.
I understand that one letter abbreviations are used for clarity in radio protocols, to prevent confusion of VC from BC or VE or BE or similiar sounding letters. This is apparently from the NATO phonetic alphabet, a term I just learned a moment ago.
well if its in Wikipedia it must be true!! : ) wiki also says my last band sold over 50 thousand copies of our debut cd. lol. WRONG.
im just saying.
like i said in my previous post, her context was not racial at all.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
I can agree with most of what you're saying... Maybe I'm bordering on being overly sensitive. I think a part of it, too, is that it really matters who's saying it.. It a member of the Viet Cong uses the term, or a US soldier, it has very different meanings than when repeated by a school-age girl. There's a lot of emotions, and terrible and great experiences that arose from the war, and it's hard to use some of these terms in simple and light-hearted playground jokes.
Maybe she can just make stick to boy jokes like the other 15 year old girls. :-)
its cool. : )
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel