modern art = shit

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  • TrixieCat
    TrixieCat Posts: 5,756
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    The classical composer and pioneer of electronic music Karlheinz Stockhausen who died last year called 9/11 the greatest work of art ever conceived... so in a way, it could be. There was uproar about his comments but I know what he meant. He wasn't saying it was nice art or enjoyable art. He was just saying that, aesthetically, it was the most powerful and provocative creation ever made by human beings.

    The guy was a pretentious git but it's an interesting idea.
    Gee I wonder why there was an uproar.
    What kind of a perverted mind thinks something like that?
    People throwing themselves out of a building that is on fire because they feel that is a better way to perish...that is art???
    The demolition of thousands of lives is art?
    There is no basis for his bullshit statement. It was not meant to be a piece of art....it was an act of terrorism.
    I like you jamie, but sorry, that pissed me off that you brought that up. :(
    Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
    And I don't feel right when you're gone away
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    The classical composer and pioneer of electronic music Karlheinz Stockhausen who died last year called 9/11 the greatest work of art ever conceived... so in a way, it could be. There was uproar about his comments but I know what he meant. He wasn't saying it was nice art or enjoyable art. He was just saying that, aesthetically, it was the most powerful and provocative creation ever made by human beings.

    The guy was a pretentious git but it's an interesting idea.


    it wasnt a creation.. it was destructive... and Metzger did that back in the early 60's... it was also shit.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • civ_eng_girl
    civ_eng_girl Posts: 2,001
    dunkman wrote:
    it wasnt a creation.. it was destructive... and Metzger did that back in the early 60's... it was also shit.

    agreed. it wasn't ART, it was an EVENT. (in my business, we would have called it an INCIDENT.) :(
    ~~*~~ ...i surfaced and all of my being was enlightend... ~~*~~
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    TrixieCat wrote:
    Gee I wonder why there was an uproar.
    What kind of a perverted mind thinks something like that?
    People throwing themselves out of a building that is on fire because they feel that is a better way to perish...that is art???
    The demolition of thousands of lives is art?
    There is no basis for his bullshit statement. It was not meant to be a piece of art....it was an act of terrorism.
    I like you jamie, but sorry, that pissed me off that you brought that up. :(
    I never said I agreed with it :eek: I was just commenting on something dunk said about whether or not serial killing is art and providing an example of someone who thinks it can be. I also don't think Stockhausen was in any way justifying or praising it, he was just saying that conceptually, for what it set out to do, it was perfect. Of course, a great deal of conceptual art is bullshit and grotesque. See that baldy german guy who cuts himself with razors and rolls about in his blood naked for details :)

    I personally am undecided on what constitutes art anyway. A lot conceptual stuff seems to me a confusion of the difference between an action and a creation but then, you could argue that the concept itself is a creation.

    Just to summarise, I do not think flying planes into buildings is artistic!
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    dunkman wrote:
    it wasnt a creation.. it was destructive... and Metzger did that back in the early 60's... it was also shit.
    The destruction led to a lot of consequences: war, a new political atmosphere, a new way of life. One could argue (ONE, NOT ME! ;) ) that it was a creation of sorts.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • civ_eng_girl
    civ_eng_girl Posts: 2,001
    hmmm.... this all just reminded me of the last scene of "V for Vendetta".

    The blowing-up of the parliament buildings, set to music and fireworks.... does that count as artistic? ;):p
    ~~*~~ ...i surfaced and all of my being was enlightend... ~~*~~
  • TrixieCat
    TrixieCat Posts: 5,756
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I never said I agreed with it :eek: I was just commenting on something dunk said about whether or not serial killing is art and providing an example of someone who thinks it can be. I also don't think Stockhausen was in any way justifying or praising it, he was just saying that conceptually, for what it set out to do, it was perfect. Of course, a great deal of conceptual art is bullshit and grotesque. See that baldy german guy who cuts himself with razors and rolls about in his blood naked for details :)

    I personally am undecided on what constitutes art anyway. A lot conceptual stuff seems to me a confusion of the difference between an action and a creation but then, you could argue that the concept itself is a creation.

    Just to summarise, I do not think flying planes into buildings is artistic!
    Oh I am sorry, I know that. I just get into such a spin over it still. It was truly a heartbreaking and traumatic experience. And for that stupid f%^k to regard it as a perfect piece of art is horrific.
    Why couldn't he just choose a building imploding or something similar. No, to be controversial and draw attention to himself he had to use the WTC as an example. Dick...
    Like someone taking a dump on the American flag and calling it art. (no comment from the euros. lol)
    Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
    And I don't feel right when you're gone away
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    TrixieCat wrote:
    Like someone taking a dump on the American flag and calling it art. (no comment from the euros. lol)

    i was just about to post that :eek: :D
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    The destruction led to a lot of consequences: war, a new political atmosphere, a new way of life. One could argue (ONE, NOT ME! ;) ) that it was a creation of sorts.


    could argue that... they'd be wrong.. but they could argue that ;)

    all destructive acts create something though... reaction, consequences, bruises...

    i tell you.. some 'art' isnt even art... these people arent talented enough to draw the dole... but what they have is a way with words, confidence and an ability to foolpeople into believing their bollocks about their 'art'

    con artists... selling spiel to the bourgeoisie who are too scared to call it crap in case they become ostracised from the art circle so stick with the others in order to appear to know what the artist is talking about... which they dont.. and neither does the artist..

    now, i really must get back to my flamingo...
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    TrixieCat wrote:
    Oh I am sorry, I know that. I just get into such a spin over it still. It was truly a heartbreaking and traumatic experience. And for that stupid f%^k to regard it as a perfect piece of art is horrific.
    Why couldn't he just choose a building imploding or something similar. No, to be controversial and draw attention to himself he had to use the WTC as an example. Dick...
    Like someone taking a dump on the American flag and calling it art. (no comment from the euros. lol)
    I know what you mean and it is a very risky thing to talk about in such a way but he didn't set out to start telling people this genius idea he had, his comments were in the context of someone asking, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, how he felt the events reflected the theme of harmony of humanity in one of his compositions, if he felt that what he set out to say in that musical work was compromised by horrific acts like this. He said "The fact that spirits achieve with one act something which we in music could never dream of, that people practise ten years madly, fanatically for a concert. And then die, that is the greatest work of art that exists for the whole cosmos". He proceeded to say that it was a crime because the audience for this "concert" did not agree to it, they were not willing participants.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • The Champ
    The Champ Posts: 4,063
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I never said I agreed with it :eek: I was just commenting on something dunk said about whether or not serial killing is art and providing an example of someone who thinks it can be. I also don't think Stockhausen was in any way justifying or praising it, he was just saying that conceptually, for what it set out to do, it was perfect. Of course, a great deal of conceptual art is bullshit and grotesque. See that baldy german guy who cuts himself with razors and rolls about in his blood naked for details :)

    I personally am undecided on what constitutes art anyway. A lot conceptual stuff seems to me a confusion of the difference between an action and a creation but then, you could argue that the concept itself is a creation.

    Just to summarise, I do not think flying planes into buildings is artistic!

    Nice save kid. Quite the hot steaming pile of shit you stepped into there..
    ;)
    'I want to hurry home to you
    put on a slow, dumb show for you
    and crack you up
    so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
    god I'm very, very frightening
    and I'll overdo it'
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    TrixieCat wrote:
    Like someone taking a dump on the American flag and calling it art. (no comment from the euros. lol)


    i truly believe that if that was sitting in an exhibition at Momo or the Tate then retards would go along and twitch their thick glasses whilst they ummed and ahhhd about the artists real intent and meaning..

    "uh yah... it's proto-realism at work... the defecation of democracy in this age of terror... its nihilistic yet pulchritudinous...."


    wrong... its a shit on a flag
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • The Champ
    The Champ Posts: 4,063
    You know, that photo with the bear is kind of cool, but yeah the rest is pretty shitty..
    'I want to hurry home to you
    put on a slow, dumb show for you
    and crack you up
    so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
    god I'm very, very frightening
    and I'll overdo it'
  • jamie uk
    jamie uk Posts: 3,812
    dunkman wrote:
    i truly believe that if that was sitting in an exhibition at Momo or the Tate then retards would go along and twitch their thick glasses whilst they ummed and ahhhd about the artists real intent and meaning..

    "uh yah... it's proto-realism at work... the defecation of democracy in this age of terror... its nihilistic yet pulchritudinous...."


    wrong... its a shit on a flag


    I don't like to blow smoke up you kilt, you know that, but that's spot on.
    It's not so much about art, more about the art of bullshitting.
    It's like all the people who were crap at art got together and decided they were good at it, and learned how to talk so clever, that everyone stopped questioning what the actually produced.
    I came, I saw, I concurred.....
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    dunkman wrote:
    i truly believe that if that was sitting in an exhibition at Momo or the Tate then retards would go along and twitch their thick glasses whilst they ummed and ahhhd about the artists real intent and meaning..

    "uh yah... it's proto-realism at work... the defecation of democracy in this age of terror... its nihilistic yet pulchritudinous...."


    wrong... its a shit on a flag

    What is a punch in the face? It's a punch in the face. But it's also an expression of anger, frustration, discontentment, you name it... and there's always a reason behind a punch.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    The Champ wrote:
    Nice save kid. Quite the hot steaming pile of shit you stepped into there..
    ;)
    I know :eek: I understand why people are quick to snap over the subject but the reaction was such that I had to go back and check that I didn't accidentally post "I think 9/11 was awesome and better than the Sistine Chapel" :o

    I'm all about generating debate folks, just don't kill me :)
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    What is a punch in the face? It's a punch in the face. But it's also an expression of anger, frustration, discontentment, you name it... and there's always a reason behind a punch.

    But I bet you'd be pissed off if a conceptual artist punched you in the face every time you went into an art gallery.;)
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    jamie uk wrote:
    I don't like to blow smoke up you kilt, you know that, but that's spot on.
    It's not so much about art, more about the art of bullshitting.
    It's like all the people who were crap at art got together and decided they were good at it, and learned how to talk so clever, that everyone stopped questioning what the actually produced.
    Amazingly, considering the amount I have opposed you two in this thread, I am exactly the same with almost all modern art. I once upset a good friend and artist a fair bit with my cynical comments while walking around the Tate modern. It wasn't so much the pieces themselves, I can make my own mind about them and what they do for me, I fucking HATE the little white description plaques that tell you what the hell they are supposed to mean. "This large, sheet blue canvas represents the futility of life and the anxiety of the artist. The small yellow tear near the top-right hand corner is a reflection of the imposing influences on the artists psyche and the feeling of violation he feels at the hands of extraneous, influences".

    The way I see it is, if it needs to be explained to me on a card before I can FEEL anything for it, it isn't art. That's pretty much the best way I can sum up my thoughts on modern art.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    But I bet you'd be pissed off if a conceptual artist punched you in the face every time you went into an art gallery.;)

    Haha.

    They don't punch people in the face very often, but some of 'em are clearly trying to piss off Scotsmen. :p
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • The Champ
    The Champ Posts: 4,063
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    But I bet you'd be pissed off if a conceptual artist punched you in the face every time you went into an art gallery.;)

    That would actually be more interesting..
    'I want to hurry home to you
    put on a slow, dumb show for you
    and crack you up
    so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
    god I'm very, very frightening
    and I'll overdo it'

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