The AET Soccer/Football Thread

ladygooddiva

so know hamburg is out in the ligapokal and bremen is in the final of that.HSV has a testmatch vs As Rom on the 5th ...
well and you know who had a red card again ...de jong ....(no comment)

Towerman

dkst0426 wrote:

While I have questioned several of Sir Alex' decisions recently in terms of lineups and off-the-field stuff, the fact remains that it has been his team to run. His record speaks for itself--all that "weirdass coach" has done is the following:

* FA Premiership: 8-time winners
* FA Cup: 5-time winner
* League Cup: 2-time winner
* Charity Shield: 5-time winner (6 if you count 1 shared)
* Champions League: 1 time
* European Cup Winners Cup: 1 time
* Intercontinental Cup: 1 time
* UEFA Supercup: 1 time
* Premier League Manager Of The Year: 6-time winner

Not to mention ensuring that Manchester United remains as a contender every single time they step onto a pitch. When you consider how low United had sunk prior to his arrival (if you're old enough), the turnaround he has accomplished in such a short time is nothing short of remarkable.

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Considering that you're a big Manchester United fan living in the states, let me ask you a question.... in recent years the Red Devils have played some friendly matches here in NY and they're always promoting their fan club here, honestly I'm not the biggest fan of them but one thing that interested me is that for fan club members they have this special trips to go see them play in England and other cool activities while over there. I looked on the website of the USA branch but they don't give you really that much information unless you're a registered member. I don't know if you know anything about this or maybe are a member, know somebody, etc... I would really appreciate any input you may have on this,.... going overseas into a soccer vacation has always been one of my dreams and this option so far is the one that has caught my attention the most. Specially considering that going through this with a private agency is mad expensive.

dkst0426

Towerman wrote:

Considering that you're a big Manchester United fan living in the states, let me ask you a question.... in recent years the Red Devils have played some friendly matches here in NY and they're always promoting their fan club here, honestly I'm not the biggest fan of them but one thing that interested me is that for fan club members they have this special trips to go see them play in England and other cool activities while over there. I looked on the website of the USA branch but they don't give you really that much information unless you're a registered member. I don't know if you know anything about this or maybe are a member, know somebody, etc... I would really appreciate any input you may have on this,.... going overseas into a soccer vacation has always been one of my dreams and this option so far is the one that has caught my attention the most. Specially considering that going through this with a private agency is mad expensive.

Never done it before personally, but I know of people who have, and if you're more than a casual fan with an amount of passion for the team and its history, go for it. Ask around (esp. at the Irish pubs around Manhattan), and I'm sure you'll be able to find out where the United fans gather for matches. That'd be a good way to get in touch with some people "in the know."

Towerman

dkst0426 wrote:

Never done it before personally, but I know of people who have, and if you're more than a casual fan with an amount of passion for the team and its history, go for it. Ask around (esp. at the Irish pubs around Manhattan), and I'm sure you'll be able to find out where the United fans gather for matches. That'd be a good way to get in touch with some people "in the know."

thanks man.... cool, yeah I'll look around more and try to gather as much information as possible. This last couple of weeks I've been thinking a lot about this.

karma defect

dkst0426 wrote:

How else would you characterize the circumstances surrounding his departure from Old Trafford?

Well it was the "we" part that had me thinking you agreed with it. Sure Ferguson kicked him out.

karma defect

dkst0426 wrote:

While I have questioned several of Sir Alex' decisions recently in terms of lineups and off-the-field stuff, the fact remains that it has been his team to run. His record speaks for itself--all that "weirdass coach" has done is the following:

* FA Premiership: 8-time winners
* FA Cup: 5-time winner
* League Cup: 2-time winner
* Charity Shield: 5-time winner (6 if you count 1 shared)
* Champions League: 1 time
* European Cup Winners Cup: 1 time
* Intercontinental Cup: 1 time
* UEFA Supercup: 1 time
* Premier League Manager Of The Year: 6-time winner

Not to mention ensuring that Manchester United remains as a contender every single time they step onto a pitch. When you consider how low United had sunk prior to his arrival (if you're old enough), the turnaround he has accomplished in such a short time is nothing short of remarkable.

And he's done it on HIS terms. The list of players who have run afoul of him is not only long, but full of Old Trafford superstars: Robson, McGrath, Ince, Kanchelskis, Beckham, Stam, Van Nistelrooy. No one player is bigger than any club, especially not Manchester United, and Sir Alex has always made that clear. And he had a good reason for how each of those players' situations panned out.

Oh shit dude if I hear that argument one more time I'll get sick.:D

NO PLAYER IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB.

I might say that the same can be said for the manager. Besides the list of prices you named is a bit stale. And the way they play hasn't quite been up to standaard.
As for "Not to mention ensuring that Manchester United remains as a contender every single time they step onto a pitch." it would be an achievement if he didn't.

Sorry, but I really think he is over the top.

karma defect

ladygooddiva wrote:

so know hamburg is out in the ligapokal and bremen is in the final of that.HSV has a testmatch vs As Rom on the 5th ...
well and you know who had a red card again ...de jong ....(no comment)

How many is that? I think he needs to grow into playing in a tougher league. He didn't get that many cards over here. Or maybe his mission is to play on the edge.

elmer

thomas gravesen and robinho have had a bust-up (punches thrown) training with madrid after a full on keano/souness-like challenge by the ex-evertonian, robinho left the pitch twirling his finger around the temple( loco! ), moments before gravesen had made an ugly challenge on beckham(apparently beckhams centre-parting sustained arrangmental damage)........appears manager aint too impressed and hell be on his way backto premiership soon as

dkst0426

karma defect wrote:

Oh shit dude if I hear that argument one more time I'll get sick.:D

NO PLAYER IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB.

Piss off, then. I love how you always pick apart whatever I post.

I might say that the same can be said for the manager.

Yes, and if Sir Alex fails to muster up a strong challenger for the title and the downslide continues, then he should be shown the door sooner rather than later. You won't find me disagreeing with that. I just don't think it's the time, and I've probably been following football and Manchester United longer than most.

Besides the list of prices you named is a bit stale. And the way they play hasn't quite been up to standaard.

I assume you meant "prizes," as in trophies. Who the fuck cares if they're getting "stale"? The point is that they were all won under him in roughly the same period of time when collectively, O'Farrell, Docherty, Sexton, and Atkinson did fuck-all.

dkst0426

Towerman wrote:

thanks man.... cool, yeah I'll look around more and try to gather as much information as possible. This last couple of weeks I've been thinking a lot about this.

I envy you. Hope it works out, and if it does, pull me a blade of grass or two from the OT pitch.

ladygooddiva

karma defect wrote:

How many is that? I think he needs to grow into playing in a tougher league. He didn't get that many cards over here. Or maybe his mission is to play on the edge.

two yellow i think and he produce them very often ...but this time it seems the red card for de jong wasn´t a red one ...it was too harsh but hey the match is over...
so the ligapokalfinal is bremen vs bayern münchen ...i think his time for acclimate
himself here it´s over .He has to show his talent,skills everthing ....he has to be good more better than @ Ajax ...i think there was a reason why beiersdorfer took him here so now he has to make as fans happy etc. and the club ...otherwise it will be hard for him

i only pray that our captain vdv will be allright the whole season !!!!

ladygooddiva

this was never a red card...



Hier: http://rapidshare.de/files/27840215/De_Jong_Rot.avi.html

ladygooddiva

oh no on the new startin for the bundesliga is de jong 2 matches disabled that´s uncool for us:(:(

karma defect

dkst0426 wrote:

Piss off, then. I love how you always pick apart whatever I post.

You typed it and I directed part of my response on that. I reacted on the rest as well so I don't just pick a part. Why can't I disagree with you. I agree with you a lot. It wouldn't be very interesting if I agree with everything you say now would it? However it is cool to be loved and told to piss off in the same sentence.:D I have a song by June of '44, it is called take it with a grain of salt. I would advice you to do that with what I say. I didn't mean to piss you off like that. It is just the way I talk, no harm intended.

dkst0426 wrote:

Yes, and if Sir Alex fails to muster up a strong challenger for the title and the downslide continues, then he should be shown the door sooner rather than later. You won't find me disagreeing with that. I just don't think it's the time, and I've probably been following football and Manchester United longer than most.

I guess it depends on whether you still trust him or not. I don't you do. I feel he didn't do to well the last few seasons.

dkst0426 wrote:

I assume you meant "prizes," as in trophies. Who the fuck cares if they're getting "stale"? The point is that they were all won under him in roughly the same period of time when collectively, O'Farrell, Docherty, Sexton, and Atkinson did fuck-all.

I meant the prizes yes. I don't know who cares if their getting stale. Sure under his lead Manu has had quite a few prizes and they were exciting to watch for a few years. However I believe the point is that it was a long time ago since he done so. The past doesn't count, at least not in that way. I would like to see Manu play better football than they did the last saesons. Just in the interest of football not because I am a fan or anything, it is just that they used to have great matches and that has been lost in their game.

karma defect

ladygooddiva wrote:

two yellow i think and he produce them very often ...but this time it seems the red card for de jong wasn´t a red one ...it was too harsh but hey the match is over...
so the ligapokalfinal is bremen vs bayern münchen ...i think his time for acclimate
himself here it´s over .He has to show his talent,skills everthing ....he has to be good more better than @ Ajax ...i think there was a reason why beiersdorfer took him here so now he has to make as fans happy etc. and the club ...otherwise it will be hard for him

i only pray that our captain vdv will be allright the whole season !!!!

Sure he has the skills to do well, but I believe he has a different role at HSV. He is more of a centre middfielder right? He didn't play that too often at Ajax. I hope for you he starts doing well, but I really think he went too soon. van der Vaart might be youg as well, but he is more experienced than de Jong is.

karma defect

I just read that Arsenal is serious about selling Cole. apparently Chelsea needs to pay 45 million and Real Madrid needs only to come up with half.

Since Roberto Carlos said he wanted to say I wonder how that will work out.

dkst0426

karma defect wrote:

under his lead Manu has had quite a few prizes and they were exciting to watch for a few years. However I believe the point is that it was a long time ago since he done so. The past doesn't count, at least not in that way.

In 4 years, they've done a domestic Treble. That's more than 90% of the rest of the clubs in the Premiership.

I would like to see Manu play better football than they did the last saesons. Just in the interest of football not because I am a fan or anything, it is just that they used to have great matches and that has been lost in their game.

Well, what's United to do when certain competitors start throwing money around like it's free paper and overpaying for superstars and buying mercenaries to win Premierships? No point getting into a price war with other teams. Football success goes in cycles. Right now, it's not quite United's cycle. Big deal. In some way, I'm thankful that it's been a bit barren for United, because a lot of the fair-weather gloryhunting fans have left the United bandwagon and jumped on the Chel-ski bandwagon. Good riddance to those "fans," I say.

karma defect

dkst0426 wrote:

In 4 years, they've done a domestic Treble. That's more than 90% of the rest of the clubs in the Premiership.

I don't really know how many prizes they won in the last few saesons I do know that it is less than what they were used to. But like you said clubs often have cycles. Still I think he has done his trick with success and now it is time to go. Some fresh blood would be good.
However I get the feeling you see nothing wrong with the way they play and the manner in which Ferguson treats his players? Or are you just playing devil's advocate?

dkst0426 wrote:

Well, what's United to do when certain competitors start throwing money around like it's free paper

dkst0426 wrote:

In some way, I'm thankful that it's been a bit barren for United, because a lot of the fair-weather gloryhunting fans have left the United bandwagon and jumped on the Chel-ski bandwagon. Good riddance to those "fans," I say.

Yes you always have those people amongst the crowd.

dkst0426

karma defect wrote:

I don't really know how many prizes they won in the last few saesons I do know that it is less than what they were used to. But like you said clubs often have cycles. Still I think he has done his trick with success and now it is time to go. Some fresh blood would be good.
However I get the feeling you see nothing wrong with the way they play and the manner in which Ferguson treats his players? Or are you just playing devil's advocate?

I can say whatever I want about the way he lets United play or the way he treats players, but ultimately, it's his ship to run, and he has done one hell of a job in the time he's been there. If he really was such a tyrant, then why haven't more players upped and left?

McGrath, Whiteside, and Robson left because Sir Alex took action against the partygoing and drinking subculture that had built up in that squad.
Paul Ince left because he was unhappy with Sir Alex turning him into more of a defensive midfielder rather than giving him license to roam upfield, which is fine, because his departure paved the way for a certain Irishman to come to Old Trafford.
Beckham left because Sir Alex felt that his media image was beginning to distract from his performance on the field. Now, you know I'm a Beckham defender, but Sir Alex was right on there. His play had begun to drop at United, even with Van Nistelrooy there to finish off whatever he was able to supply, and bottom line, he wasn't supplying as much after Cole and Yorke left. He's done well at Madrid, for which I am happy for him.
Stam left because of some of the shit he aired in his book. You don't pull off that kind of crap while you're still at a club. That was unprofessional, and you and I know it. Got a problem with the manager? Take it up with him, or leave.
Van Nistelrooy left because he couldn't get over the fact that Louis Saha did in fact deserve a spot in the Carling Cup final. It was ONE game in a tournament that is nowhere near as prestigious as it used to be, and there was still a league run-in to worry about and he was still coming off a long-term injury. Why in the hell did he get so sulky about it?

There were justifiable reasons for Sir Alex to get tired of certain players. There were also justifiable reasons for those players to feel like they were wronged. Bottom line: he's in charge.

Let me ask you this: you follow the game closely enough. You know what kind of demands the position carries. If it is in fact time for fresh blood, who would be the person to take up the job? Got a shortlist?

karma defect

dkst0426 wrote:

I can say whatever I want about the way he lets United play or the way he treats players, but ultimately, it's his ship to run, and he has done one hell of a job in the time he's been there. If he really was such a tyrant, then why haven't more players upped and left?

Well I can think of a few reasons, but it wouldn't matter. I don't agree with the above, and it isn't that important. We have different opinions. I think the players are more important than the coach, you see it differently. No sweat.

dkst0426 wrote:

McGrath, Whiteside, and Robson left because Sir Alex took action against the partygoing and drinking subculture that had built up in that squad.
Paul Ince left because he was unhappy with Sir Alex turning him into more of a defensive midfielder rather than giving him license to roam upfield, which is fine, because his departure paved the way for a certain Irishman to come to Old Trafford.

Really Robson was a drinking brother? I always thought he was kind of like Shearer, a family man with nothing to report. I always liked Ince, he had a great urgency about him.

dkst0426 wrote:

Beckham left because Sir Alex felt that his media image was beginning to distract from his performance on the field. Now, you know I'm a Beckham defender, but Sir Alex was right on there. His play had begun to drop at United, even with Van Nistelrooy there to finish off whatever he was able to supply, and bottom line, he wasn't supplying as much after Cole and Yorke left. He's done well at Madrid, for which I am happy for him.

I can imagine his media live can be annoying. And there was certainly put enough effort in setting him straight. Maybe he just really needed to leave as a kid needs to move out of his parents house.

dkst0426 wrote:

Stam left because of some of the shit he aired in his book. You don't pull off that kind of crap while you're still at a club. That was unprofessional, and you and I know it. Got a problem with the manager? Take it up with him, or leave.

I've heard that it was nothing much. certainly not something to lose one of the best defenders over.

dkst0426 wrote:

Van Nistelrooy left because he couldn't get over the fact that Louis Saha did in fact deserve a spot in the Carling Cup final. It was ONE game in a tournament that is nowhere near as prestigious as it used to be, and there was still a league run-in to worry about and he was still coming off a long-term injury. Why in the hell did he get so sulky about it?

Exactly. It makes one think there may well be more to it than just a game on the bench. Might well be that Ruud was the one guy to stick up for Keane openly and place question makes about his departure.

dkst0426 wrote:

There were justifiable reasons for Sir Alex to get tired of certain players. There were also justifiable reasons for those players to feel like they were wronged. Bottom line: he's in charge.?

Yes he is in charge. He and his ego. Losing Keane, Stam, van Nistelrooij was just plain silly and bad management.

dkst0426 wrote:

Let me ask you this: you follow the game closely enough. You know what kind of demands the position carries. If it is in fact time for fresh blood, who would be the person to take up the job? Got a shortlist?

Hahahaha, no not really. Like I said I am not a fan. I like Manu but as far as my thinking about shortlists go I keep that for clubs like PSV, Barca and other Dutch clubs.

However you make it sound as if there aren't any other managers that could do the job and that Manu is somewhat depended on him. Still after he leaves there will be a new man to do the job. Manu has the cash and the reputation so good players will come and they will remain a serious contender for the league title.
I think a club like Manu is so big that they'll be successful with any number of coaches. I think it would be best to have a real clubman, but even that isn't necessary. I think Capello would do good anywhere he goes. Not that he would be on my shortlist since he just signed at Madrid. It might well be that they appoint a man with the skill but not the name. I would not brake my head thinking about it, there are a lot of coaches out there.
If it were up to me I wouldn't give a new head coach as much power as they have given Ferguson.


My criteria would be;

A clubman
Strategically strong
A forward strategy
Able to sell the club well
Good people skills
A scouting network
Being able to fit in youth
Able to work in a team