the refs cheat for them too...remember the forward pass in that raider playoff game in the snow years ago. that no doubt was a fucking fumble and the raiders got robbed out of a super bowl.
The refs called it exactly as the rule book stated. The rule was changed thereafter so the refs did not cheat, and the Raiders would have gotten destroyed in Pittsburgh the following week had the call gone the other way.
Pretty much my point earlier. Its something teams do, Mangini knew the Pats do it cause he used to do it with them and does it with the Jets.
In the end, more than the Pats being "cheaters" you'll likely find that Mangini broke an unwritten coaching rule and ratted out a common practice cause he was upset at getting his ass handed to him on opening weekend. Dumb move by a young coach.
I hate to bash mangini, because I like him, and the jets, and bellichek is a dickhead, but that still doesnt change what it was.
I heard the news in my sleep, and the first thing I thought of was the kids. I coach youth travel soccer and kids really look up to pros, in my daughters class tons of kids wear pats shit, so I was like what does this show them, after I looked at the facts I was like fuck the media for blowing this up, wrong measage. wrong word, not cheaters.
The pats are just obbsessed with winning, and will do what it takes.
The refs called it exactly as the rule book stated. The rule was changed thereafter so the refs did not cheat, and the Raiders would have gotten destroyed in Pittsburgh the following week had the call gone the other way.
yeah ok whatever. i can see clear as day 20/20 and the raiders would have crushed pittsburgh that year. after all they beat the super bowl champs of that year in their own house...just didn't get credit for it..oh and in the snow. A LOS ANGELES TEAM IN A BLIZZARD.
Oh dear dad
Can you see me now
I am myself
Like you somehow
I'll ride the wave
Where it takes me
I'll hold the pain
Release me
i hope they have a major fine and take at least 2 first round picks.
the NFL has to make an example of this. they have to send a message to the other teams that it is not worth cheating like this. especially in todays highly advanced technological world. the possibilities are endless. i have always wondered if some teams have found a way to listen in to the radio between the QB and coach?
my friend told me yesterday that the NFL has been voting yearly to have 1 defensive player allowed to have a helmet radio, like they do on offense. alot of teams want this and vote for it, apparently the patriots have voted against it every time. and now we see why.
fucking cheaters
Whine, Whine, Whine, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch....This thread is all about whining and crying foul. Like the Patriots are the only team that does this. Hell the Jets coach learned it from Belck and he knew what was happening and just wanted to cover/deflect his opening day defeat at HOME.
After the Patriots are fined, draft picks taken away you'll be right back here whining and bitching all over again. The Patriots ruined your season after one fucking game give it rest.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
yeah ok whatever. i can see clear as day 20/20 and the raiders would have crushed pittsburgh that year. after all they beat the super bowl champs of that year in their own house...just didn't get credit for it..oh and in the snow. A LOS ANGELES TEAM IN A BLIZZARD.
And they proved it so well the following year against Tampa.
reffing is a whole other situation, it is fucking horrible on all levels.
A team who is well oiled and burning on all cylinders has more of this going on than you think because they are more organized and ahead of the pack in the basic areas.
The pats have great play calling
a deep bench
a great qb, and team leaders.
Come game day their arent many changes, they do this as protocall, and it may help here and there, but they dont let it effect their game unless an opposing coach is not doing their job.
And Mangini was the one who instituted the use of the camera when he was with NE, how do you think he knew exactly what to tell the league they'd find.
Is that a know fact or is that just something brought up to defend what they did?
There is also an unexplained issue with the radio frequencies that the patriots were using that game.
I could care less, I don't like either team, but it is a classless thing to do, no matter how prevalent it is. I hope more teams get busted doing this type of thing.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Whine, Whine, Whine, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch....This thread is all about whining and crying foul. Like the Patriots are the only team that does this. Hell the Jets coach learned it from Belck and he knew what was happening and just wanted to cover/deflect his opening day defeat at HOME.
After the Patriots are fined, draft picks taken away you'll be right back here whining and bitching all over again. The Patriots ruined your season after one fucking game give it rest.
this isnt a huge deal..its like stealing signs in baseball...and spying at camps and practices and even in the game has been going on forever...you all are out of your element...
and for the record..ima raiders fan so... not too biased.
this isnt a huge deal..its like stealing signs in baseball...and spying at camps and practices and even in the game has been going on forever...you all are out of your element...
and for the record..ima raiders fan so... not too biased.
Its just being blown out of proportion by the Mark Schlereth's of the world.
Honestly, that is one of the dumbest things I have ever read on here. Vince Lombardi's playbook was 2 sides of 1 piece of paper. Teams knew exactly that he was going to run the power sweep over and over and over. And he still won 5 titles ... why because of his players execution on the field.
Look at the Eagles against the Saints last year in the playoffs. Everyone knew they were going to kill the clock with Duece McCallistar running dive plays at the end of the game. Correct my memory, but did the Eagles stop him short of a first down or did the Saints run the clock out?
Seriously, knowing the plays or tendencies is all fine and dandy but worthless if your team can't execute.
wow, i have seen some dumb shit on here, and you think this is up there? :eek:
tell the ravens what plays your running, and you wont score. tell the colts what defense you are running, and they score 50.
that doesnt seem to dumb to me.
ps... lombardis packers would lose by 30 to the patriots or colts... 9 out of 10 times
and if it doesnt matter... then why closed pratices, top secret playbooks, masking signs, decoy signs, etc, etc? why would the NFL care if they are taping? why doesn't p.manning just yell out at the line to harrison "15 yard curl"? because that shit would get picked off, thats why
this is the NFL, not pop warner or high school. these are world premier athletes, tell 11 of them what you are going to run and it will not work, ever.
wow, i have seen some dumb shit on here, and you think this is up there? :eek:
tell the ravens what plays your running, and you wont score. tell the colts what defense you are running, and they score 50.
that doesnt seem to dumb to me.
ps... lombardis packers would lose by 30 to the patriots or colts... 9 out of 10 times
and if it doesnt matter... then why closed pratices, top secret playbooks, masking signs, decoy signs, etc, etc? why would the NFL care if they are taping? why doesn't p.manning just yell out at the line to harrison "15 yard curl"? because that shit would get picked off, thats why
So if the Eagles knew the Saints were going to give the ball to Duece to run the clock out last year after inexplicably punting because Andy Reid is a moron and that they couldn't stop the run at all, are you saying that the Eagles just suck or that knowing the play and executing the play are two different things.
Whine, Whine, Whine, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch....This thread is all about whining and crying foul. Like the Patriots are the only team that does this. Hell the Jets coach learned it from Belck and he knew what was happening and just wanted to cover/deflect his opening day defeat at HOME.
After the Patriots are fined, draft picks taken away you'll be right back here whining and bitching all over again. The Patriots ruined your season after one fucking game give it rest.
Peace
I'm over it I couldn't careless. It's all this whining and bitching, it won't bring back a win for J E T S. So that's why I've said when the Jets come to NE take out whatever anger and frustration on the Pats then.
You should be happy with the outcome then.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
So if the Eagles knew the Saints were going to give the ball to Duece to run the clock out last year after inexplicably punting because Andy Reid is a moron and that they couldn't stop the run at all, are you saying that the Eagles just suck or that knowing the play and executing the play are two different things.
if the eagles knew exactly what play they were running, who was getting the ball, and which hole he was hitting.
yes, they would have stuffed it. easily.
remeber switzer running the exact play twice? stuffed! and that was emmit smith with the best line of the last 20 years
so your tellinge me, that tom brady knowing what exact defense the jets are running doesnt help? puhlease
so your tellinge me, that tom brady knowing what exact defense the jets are running doesnt help? puhlease
I'm assuming you're talking about the second half being affected by this because it was 14-7 at halftime. Well let's go to the play by play here.
Pats run back opening kickoff for a TD for 108 yards. Yep, they knew the Jets were going to kickoff there.
Next drive 6 yard gain, 13, and then the Moss catch where he beats three defenders.
Next drive Pats gain 5,6,13, 2, 7, 9, 8, 2, 1, 12, 9, 4, 5, 5, 1, 1, and 0 on a FG drive. I guess knowing the Jets defense there helped the Pats with all those big plays on that drive.
Final Pats drive when they get the ball at midfield. They gain 3, 8, 1, 9, get 15 yards on a facemask penalty, 3, 13, 0, and then 1 for the td. Damn another drive full of big plays.
Before we jump on the media bandwagon here clamoring about the Pats cheating and having an unfair advantage, maybe we should look at the facts. The Pats are a better team than the Jets and with or without the gamesmanship by both Belichek and Mangini they would have won.
And you know for a fact I'm not a Patriots apologist, I'm an Eagles and Steelers fan and no team has caused me more misery the last decade than the Pats, but face it there's a reason they've won 3 Super Bowls. They're just an extremely good football team.
I'm assuming you're talking about the second half being affected by this because it was 14-7 at halftime. Well let's go to the play by play here.
Pats run back opening kickoff for a TD for 108 yards. Yep, they knew the Jets were going to kickoff there.
Next drive 6 yard gain, 13, and then the Moss catch where he beats three defenders.
Next drive Pats gain 5,6,13, 2, 7, 9, 8, 2, 1, 12, 9, 4, 5, 5, 1, 1, and 0 on a FG drive. I guess knowing the Jets defense there helped the Pats with all those big plays on that drive.
Final Pats drive when they get the ball at midfield. They gain 3, 8, 1, 9, get 15 yards on a facemask penalty, 3, 13, 0, and then 1 for the td. Damn another drive full of big plays.
Before we jump on the media bandwagon here clamoring about the Pats cheating and having an unfair advantage, maybe we should look at the facts. The Pats are a better team than the Jets and with or without the gamesmanship by both Belichek and Mangini they would have won.
And you know for a fact I'm not a Patriots apologist, I'm an Eagles and Steelers fan and no team has caused me more misery the last decade than the Pats, but face it there's a reason they've won 3 Super Bowls. They're just an extremely good football team.
wow, i have seen some dumb shit on here, and you think this is up there? :eek:
tell the ravens what plays your running, and you wont score. tell the colts what defense you are running, and they score 50.
that doesnt seem to dumb to me.
ps... lombardis packers would lose by 30 to the patriots or colts... 9 out of 10 times
and if it doesnt matter... then why closed pratices, top secret playbooks, masking signs, decoy signs, etc, etc? why would the NFL care if they are taping? why doesn't p.manning just yell out at the line to harrison "15 yard curl"? because that shit would get picked off, thats why
this is the NFL, not pop warner or high school. these are world premier athletes, tell 11 of them what you are going to run and it will not work, ever.
IMO, of course
Well for one peyton does yell the plays out
you must not be a football nut like some of these guys are. because a good qb yells it all the time just watch commercials
old school joe montana in his super highlights
black 59 razor, it just happens so quick and you catch a team off guard
peyton has a commercial floating around where he yells lousianna sould train, its telling harrison to line up with 3 other recievers and run a post while the other go flat
its a very big part of coaching
this rule is in equal comparison to the jets stealing coaches and getting draft picks, its an upper management thing.
brady also watches film all week, he knows when to read a blitz
when I heard the pats cheated I assumed they paid a ref off.
I'm assuming you're talking about the second half being affected by this because it was 14-7 at halftime. Well let's go to the play by play here.
Pats run back opening kickoff for a TD for 108 yards. Yep, they knew the Jets were going to kickoff there.
Next drive 6 yard gain, 13, and then the Moss catch where he beats three defenders.
Next drive Pats gain 5,6,13, 2, 7, 9, 8, 2, 1, 12, 9, 4, 5, 5, 1, 1, and 0 on a FG drive. I guess knowing the Jets defense there helped the Pats with all those big plays on that drive.
Final Pats drive when they get the ball at midfield. They gain 3, 8, 1, 9, get 15 yards on a facemask penalty, 3, 13, 0, and then 1 for the td. Damn another drive full of big plays.
Before we jump on the media bandwagon here clamoring about the Pats cheating and having an unfair advantage, maybe we should look at the facts. The Pats are a better team than the Jets and with or without the gamesmanship by both Belichek and Mangini they would have won.
And you know for a fact I'm not a Patriots apologist, I'm an Eagles and Steelers fan and no team has caused me more misery the last decade than the Pats, but face it there's a reason they've won 3 Super Bowls. They're just an extremely good football team.
Thats the word
its poor gamesmenship to be obvious they that they got caught, if they were les dramatic in their tactics which belichek is never, it wouldnt have been so obvious.
No wonder everyone hates this fucking Bellichick asshole..the balls on this guy!! He was even warned last year about this shit, and he still has the balls to do this again, and against a person that knows first hand of the cheating?? Wow, genius defensive mind Bellichick eh..dirty fucking bastard is more like it..and his apology was fucking pathetic too..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
No wonder everyone hates this fucking Bellichick asshole..the balls on this guy!! He was even warned last year about this shit, and he still has the balls to do this again, and against a person that knows first hand of the cheating?? Wow, genius defensive mind Bellichick eh..dirty fucking bastard is more like it..and his apology was fucking pathetic too..
The Patriots were caught, RED HANDED, video taping the Jets defensive calls. This is against the rules. Period. They have been caught breaking the rules. Period. The NFL is going to take action. Period. This is not a conspiracy theory, they were caught with the fucking tape. Period. It is against the rules because it is an advantage. Period.
For anyone to excuse this is just foolish
For anyone to think it doesnt/didn't provide an advantage is just foolish, why else would they fucking do it?
so feel free to break down the play by play, it will not change the fact that they got caught cheating red handed, and that it CLEARLY gives/gave them an advantage.
seriously, it is just silly to think it is not a major advantage to know what the other team is calling :rolleyes:
The Patriots were caught, RED HANDED, video taping the Jets defensive calls. This is against the rules. Period. They have been caught breaking the rules. Period. The NFL is going to take action. Period. This is not a conspiracy theory, they were caught with the fucking tape. Period. It is against the rules because it is an advantage. Period.
For anyone to excuse this is just foolish
For anyone to think it doesnt/didn't provide an advantage is just foolish, why else would they fucking do it?
so feel free to break down the play by play, it will not change the fact that they got caught cheating red handed, and that it CLEARLY gives/gave them an advantage.
seriously, it is just silly to think it is not a major advantage to know what the other team is calling :rolleyes:
the ONLY difference with the Pats and other teams is that THEY got caught!
you have to be naive to think this doesnt go on
or that steroids dont go on in baseball, inside betting in basketball etc....
I dont agree with what they did .. dont get me wrong
There's the moon asking to stay
Long enough for the clouds to fly me away
Comments
I hate to bash mangini, because I like him, and the jets, and bellichek is a dickhead, but that still doesnt change what it was.
I heard the news in my sleep, and the first thing I thought of was the kids. I coach youth travel soccer and kids really look up to pros, in my daughters class tons of kids wear pats shit, so I was like what does this show them, after I looked at the facts I was like fuck the media for blowing this up, wrong measage. wrong word, not cheaters.
The pats are just obbsessed with winning, and will do what it takes.
no more shows
Can you see me now
I am myself
Like you somehow
I'll ride the wave
Where it takes me
I'll hold the pain
Release me
Whine, Whine, Whine, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch....This thread is all about whining and crying foul. Like the Patriots are the only team that does this. Hell the Jets coach learned it from Belck and he knew what was happening and just wanted to cover/deflect his opening day defeat at HOME.
After the Patriots are fined, draft picks taken away you'll be right back here whining and bitching all over again. The Patriots ruined your season after one fucking game give it rest.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
A team who is well oiled and burning on all cylinders has more of this going on than you think because they are more organized and ahead of the pack in the basic areas.
The pats have great play calling
a deep bench
a great qb, and team leaders.
Come game day their arent many changes, they do this as protocall, and it may help here and there, but they dont let it effect their game unless an opposing coach is not doing their job.
no more shows
Can you see me now
I am myself
Like you somehow
I'll ride the wave
Where it takes me
I'll hold the pain
Release me
Is that a know fact or is that just something brought up to defend what they did?
There is also an unexplained issue with the radio frequencies that the patriots were using that game.
I could care less, I don't like either team, but it is a classless thing to do, no matter how prevalent it is. I hope more teams get busted doing this type of thing.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
so suck it
and yes that is my only defense of this crap
so BB put it on THEIR sideline?
huh??
huh??
they cheated
get over it
and for the record..ima raiders fan so... not too biased.
wow, i have seen some dumb shit on here, and you think this is up there? :eek:
tell the ravens what plays your running, and you wont score. tell the colts what defense you are running, and they score 50.
that doesnt seem to dumb to me.
ps... lombardis packers would lose by 30 to the patriots or colts... 9 out of 10 times
and if it doesnt matter... then why closed pratices, top secret playbooks, masking signs, decoy signs, etc, etc? why would the NFL care if they are taping? why doesn't p.manning just yell out at the line to harrison "15 yard curl"? because that shit would get picked off, thats why
this is the NFL, not pop warner or high school. these are world premier athletes, tell 11 of them what you are going to run and it will not work, ever.
IMO, of course
So if the Eagles knew the Saints were going to give the ball to Duece to run the clock out last year after inexplicably punting because Andy Reid is a moron and that they couldn't stop the run at all, are you saying that the Eagles just suck or that knowing the play and executing the play are two different things.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
I'm over it I couldn't careless. It's all this whining and bitching, it won't bring back a win for J E T S. So that's why I've said when the Jets come to NE take out whatever anger and frustration on the Pats then.
You should be happy with the outcome then.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
if the eagles knew exactly what play they were running, who was getting the ball, and which hole he was hitting.
yes, they would have stuffed it. easily.
remeber switzer running the exact play twice? stuffed! and that was emmit smith with the best line of the last 20 years
so your tellinge me, that tom brady knowing what exact defense the jets are running doesnt help? puhlease
tom brady also having 7 seconds to throw might of helped
i was wondering how they picked up EVERY blitz
as i said before
oopsie
No.
I'm assuming you're talking about the second half being affected by this because it was 14-7 at halftime. Well let's go to the play by play here.
Pats run back opening kickoff for a TD for 108 yards. Yep, they knew the Jets were going to kickoff there.
Next drive 6 yard gain, 13, and then the Moss catch where he beats three defenders.
Next drive Pats gain 5,6,13, 2, 7, 9, 8, 2, 1, 12, 9, 4, 5, 5, 1, 1, and 0 on a FG drive. I guess knowing the Jets defense there helped the Pats with all those big plays on that drive.
Final Pats drive when they get the ball at midfield. They gain 3, 8, 1, 9, get 15 yards on a facemask penalty, 3, 13, 0, and then 1 for the td. Damn another drive full of big plays.
Before we jump on the media bandwagon here clamoring about the Pats cheating and having an unfair advantage, maybe we should look at the facts. The Pats are a better team than the Jets and with or without the gamesmanship by both Belichek and Mangini they would have won.
And you know for a fact I'm not a Patriots apologist, I'm an Eagles and Steelers fan and no team has caused me more misery the last decade than the Pats, but face it there's a reason they've won 3 Super Bowls. They're just an extremely good football team.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
my boys wicked smaht
how about dem apples?
Well for one peyton does yell the plays out
you must not be a football nut like some of these guys are. because a good qb yells it all the time just watch commercials
old school joe montana in his super highlights
black 59 razor, it just happens so quick and you catch a team off guard
peyton has a commercial floating around where he yells lousianna sould train, its telling harrison to line up with 3 other recievers and run a post while the other go flat
its a very big part of coaching
this rule is in equal comparison to the jets stealing coaches and getting draft picks, its an upper management thing.
brady also watches film all week, he knows when to read a blitz
when I heard the pats cheated I assumed they paid a ref off.
no more shows
Thats the word
its poor gamesmenship to be obvious they that they got caught, if they were les dramatic in their tactics which belichek is never, it wouldnt have been so obvious.
no more shows
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
would you like to wager on the superbowl?
since we'll be at SUCH A DISADVANTAGE now?
For anyone to excuse this is just foolish
For anyone to think it doesnt/didn't provide an advantage is just foolish, why else would they fucking do it?
so feel free to break down the play by play, it will not change the fact that they got caught cheating red handed, and that it CLEARLY gives/gave them an advantage.
seriously, it is just silly to think it is not a major advantage to know what the other team is calling :rolleyes:
see above
he also claims his hatred towards boston and ppl that live here has nothing to do with sports! LOL!!
GO PATS!!!
Long enough for the clouds to fly me away
the ONLY difference with the Pats and other teams is that THEY got caught!
you have to be naive to think this doesnt go on
or that steroids dont go on in baseball, inside betting in basketball etc....
I dont agree with what they did .. dont get me wrong
Long enough for the clouds to fly me away