Fire brought down WTC 7
spyguy
Posts: 613
ok conspiracy people, lets hear it..
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc_videos/wtc_videos.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080821/ap_on_go_ot/attacks_collapse
Feds: Fires took down building next to twin towers
GAITHERSBURG, Md. - Federal investigators said Thursday they have solved a mystery of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks: the collapse of World Trade Center building 7, a source of long-running conspiracy theories.
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The 47-story trapezoid-shaped building sat north of the World Trade Center towers, across Vesey Street in lower Manhattan. On Sept. 11, it was set on fire by falling debris from the burning towers, but skeptics have long argued that fire and debris alone should not have brought down such a big steel-and-concrete structure.
Scientists with the National Institute of Standards and Technology say their three-year investigation of the collapse determined the demise of WTC 7 was actually the first time in the world a fire caused the total failure of a skyscraper.
"The reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery," said Dr. Shyam Sunder, the lead investigator on the NIST team.
Investigators also concluded that the collapse of the nearby towers broke the city water main, leaving the sprinkler system in the bottom half of the building without water.
The building has been the subject of a wide range of conspiracy theories for the last seven years, partly because the collapse occurred about seven hours after the twin towers came down. That fueled suspicion that someone intentionally blew up the building in a controlled demolition.
Critics like Mike Berger of the group 9/11 Truth said he wasn't buying the government's explanation.
"Their explanation simply isn't sufficient. We're being lied to," he said, arguing that there is other evidence suggesting explosives were used on the building.
Sunder said his team investigated the possibility that an explosion inside the building brought it down, but found there was no large boom or other noise that would have occurred with such a detonation. Investigators also created a giant computer model of the collapse, based partly on news footage from CBS News, that they say shows internal column failure brought down the building.
Investigators also ruled out the possibility that the collapse was caused by fires from a substantial amount of diesel fuel that was stored in the building, most of it for generators for the city's emergency operations command center.
The 77-page report concluded that the fatal blow to the building came when the 13th floor collapsed, weakening a critical steel support column that led to catastrophic failure.
"When this critical column buckled due to lack of floor supports, it was the first domino in the chain," said Sunder.
The NIST investigators issued more than a dozen building recommendations as a result of their inquiry, most of which repeat earlier recommendations from their investigation into the collapse of the two large towers.
In both instances, investigators concluded that extreme heat caused some steel beams to lose strength, causing further failures throughout the buildings until the entire structure succumbed.
The recommendations include building skyscrapers with stronger connections and framing systems to resist the effects of thermal expansion, and structural systems designed to prevent damage to one part of a building from spreading to other parts.
A spokeswoman for the leaseholder of the World Trade Center, developer Larry Silverstein, praised the government's work.
"Hopefully this thorough report puts to rest the various 9/11 conspiracy theories, which dishonor the men and women who lost their lives on that terrible day," said Silverstein spokeswoman Dara McQuillen.
In discussing the findings, the investigator Sunder acknowledged that some may still not be convinced, but insisted the science behind their findings is "incredibly conclusive."
"The public should really recognize the science is really behind what we have said," he said, adding: "The obvious stares you in the face."
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc_videos/wtc_videos.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080821/ap_on_go_ot/attacks_collapse
Feds: Fires took down building next to twin towers
GAITHERSBURG, Md. - Federal investigators said Thursday they have solved a mystery of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks: the collapse of World Trade Center building 7, a source of long-running conspiracy theories.
ADVERTISEMENT
The 47-story trapezoid-shaped building sat north of the World Trade Center towers, across Vesey Street in lower Manhattan. On Sept. 11, it was set on fire by falling debris from the burning towers, but skeptics have long argued that fire and debris alone should not have brought down such a big steel-and-concrete structure.
Scientists with the National Institute of Standards and Technology say their three-year investigation of the collapse determined the demise of WTC 7 was actually the first time in the world a fire caused the total failure of a skyscraper.
"The reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery," said Dr. Shyam Sunder, the lead investigator on the NIST team.
Investigators also concluded that the collapse of the nearby towers broke the city water main, leaving the sprinkler system in the bottom half of the building without water.
The building has been the subject of a wide range of conspiracy theories for the last seven years, partly because the collapse occurred about seven hours after the twin towers came down. That fueled suspicion that someone intentionally blew up the building in a controlled demolition.
Critics like Mike Berger of the group 9/11 Truth said he wasn't buying the government's explanation.
"Their explanation simply isn't sufficient. We're being lied to," he said, arguing that there is other evidence suggesting explosives were used on the building.
Sunder said his team investigated the possibility that an explosion inside the building brought it down, but found there was no large boom or other noise that would have occurred with such a detonation. Investigators also created a giant computer model of the collapse, based partly on news footage from CBS News, that they say shows internal column failure brought down the building.
Investigators also ruled out the possibility that the collapse was caused by fires from a substantial amount of diesel fuel that was stored in the building, most of it for generators for the city's emergency operations command center.
The 77-page report concluded that the fatal blow to the building came when the 13th floor collapsed, weakening a critical steel support column that led to catastrophic failure.
"When this critical column buckled due to lack of floor supports, it was the first domino in the chain," said Sunder.
The NIST investigators issued more than a dozen building recommendations as a result of their inquiry, most of which repeat earlier recommendations from their investigation into the collapse of the two large towers.
In both instances, investigators concluded that extreme heat caused some steel beams to lose strength, causing further failures throughout the buildings until the entire structure succumbed.
The recommendations include building skyscrapers with stronger connections and framing systems to resist the effects of thermal expansion, and structural systems designed to prevent damage to one part of a building from spreading to other parts.
A spokeswoman for the leaseholder of the World Trade Center, developer Larry Silverstein, praised the government's work.
"Hopefully this thorough report puts to rest the various 9/11 conspiracy theories, which dishonor the men and women who lost their lives on that terrible day," said Silverstein spokeswoman Dara McQuillen.
In discussing the findings, the investigator Sunder acknowledged that some may still not be convinced, but insisted the science behind their findings is "incredibly conclusive."
"The public should really recognize the science is really behind what we have said," he said, adding: "The obvious stares you in the face."
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4644051651259952448&q=aids+government&ei=d0KVSOb7AqToqAKemoz1Aw&hl=en
Although I can't be 100% certain that the term "pull it" means "demolish the building" or "detonate it," that's what it sounds like to me. And if it does, Larry Silverstein himself ordered the buildings to be taken down, according to this video. Now, how could they have taken this building down with these raging fires inside? Who rushed in and was able to plant the explosives exaclty where they needed to be, to take it down?
I'm no expert, but I would imagine rigging a building for demo takes at least a few days, without tons of smoke to inhale, and dust to breathe in. Also, where did they find someone who was capable of doing it on such short notice? I can only gather one of a couple things:
1) Explosives had already been planted in the building days, if not weeks, before 9/11.
2) "Pull it" means, "Let's hope the fire spreads and is able to perfectly demolish a skyscraper for the 3rd time in the same day, and also the third time in history."
Again, I don't know exactly what happened on that day, but I do believe an INDEPENDENT investigation should be done on everything that happened on that day. EVERYTHING.
Something just doesn't add up.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Beat me to it!
not sure, if you can find it, please post it. all we so far is that one is out there.
Computers, synthetics (plastics, etc.), and various other office supplies can burn at up to 1,400. At 1,000 degrees, steel is too compromised to adequately support very much. At 1,100 degrees, steel will expand at a 74% ratio or 9 inches per foot. This means that if you have, for example, a 40 ft. beam of steel burning at 1,100 degrees for 10 minutes or so, you're going to have a 70 foot steel beam, which, will cause a lot of problems. Considering operations to put out fires were more or less abandoned as of the morning, and that the building had numerous broken windows on higher levels (where wind flowing through the building and even debris flying into the building would add more fuel for the fires to burn longer and uninterrupted), the idea of fire beings responsible for the collapse is quite plausible.
Also, as for "pull it," there is no context as to how these terms were used. It could have been a batallion chief ordering a firefighter or officer to "pull" some firehose or "pull" a lever or "pull" the ignition on a saw or any other sort of fireground operation. I've been told to "push" and "pull" various "its" on various operations, and it's not unlikely that a command was simply thrown out. I am unable to watch the video so I'm not sure what exactly was going on, but, that's what I gathered from the responses.
Basically, the firefighting community seems to split and somewhat opinionated on the subject, but I have noticed that a large majority of my fellow firefighters I have encountered agree with me that WTC7 as well as the Trade Towers themselves could have easily been dropped with a combination of the planes hitting the buildings and the subsequent fires. The "explosions" everyone claims to hear seem to just be the building's integrity giving way. Even small house collapses make a lot of noise and sometimes sound like explosions.
i think this is it?
Well.
I guess that explains it then.
:rolleyes:
I wonder what caused all those massive fires though?
Seriously.
According to the experts there were fires on SIXTEEN floors.
Whar are the odds that falling debris went flying through the air, on fire, and landed through windows on sixteen different floors and caught them on fire?
And what are the odds that the first building in history to fall from fire alone would just happen to be a building inhabited by the FBI, SEC, OEM, and the largest CIA office outside of langley?
It seems a little pathetic that the BEST guess posed by the ORIGINAL NiST investigation was that these oil generators in the lower floors leaked and caught on fire ... and that this BEST guess scenario, which was asigned a "low" or "improbable" chance of occurance has now been DISPROVED by NIST itself.
Which means that the CAUSE OF THE FIRES is now left to the imagination.
I'm just suprised that every building within spit-shot didn't have fires on dozens of floors, and that they didn't all come crashing down also.
Man. Chance is crazy.
But i guess we got lucky that time.
Sucks for the CIA, FBI, and SEC though. They got the shit end of the fate stick i guess?
:cool:
If I opened it now would you not understand?
:rolleyes:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
Yeah...and J. Edgar Hoover was a heterosexual
"Chirp"
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
maybe there would be a better understanding of what it was that actually melted the steel when the firemen were talking about melted steel flowing like lava...
fire?
yeah...I melt pots on my gas stove whenever I cook all the time
:rolleyes:
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
hmmm...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
But seriously, if people honestly believed their own country and government was responsible for actually doing such things, why on earth would you stay? Makes no sense.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
They put it in trucks....drive it wherever....it's a big world...
why destroy it immediately if the case is not solved?
logic?
seriously man
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
try reading some of it.... I can see how you didn't read a scrap of it.... I just posted it...
and where are you going to run from this level of corruption? which planet?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Secondly, if human remains are mixed in with the steel, it's hardous waste and you can't just leave that laying around somewhere... it could get people very sick.
Also, it's very obvious that the people who do believe these conspiracy theories have no interest in finding out the truth... all they want to hear is information that backs their warped notions of reality. So for example, if Osama bin Laden and other high level Al Queda members were caught alive and gave full details about 9-11 and how they did it, all you conspiracy theorists would do is try and find some false or warped way to deny it so you could continue with some illusion of reality which you believe to be true.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
99.9%...
That's a big claim. I think you're perhaps doing the same thing you're accusing the 0.1% of doing...
There are many valid questions and points raised about 9/11. Many that also would in fact appear to deny some basic physical laws of this universe.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Not everything in life is black and white. Not everything can always be specifically explained, but it also doesn't mean it's not normal or outlandish to occur. Irrational things occur, unexplained things occur and when they do, you can't simply jump 180% in the other direction. That is what this conspiracy is. Yes there are some questionable items in the occurence, but it doesn't mean the conspiracy is correct either.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I just want to know how fire somehow liquefied the steel. If extremely fundamental concepts do not add up the whole official story begins to fall apart rather quickly.
“Tons of [molten metal] was found 21 days after the attack,” said Gage in an interview with a Vancouver, Canada television station. “Steel doesn’t begin to melt until 2,700 degrees, which is much hotter than what these fires could have caused.”
So if the the fundamental laws of this universe are broken...then what? Keep believing the official story despite?
doesn't sound rational to me...
edit: almost forgot the WTC "meteorite" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbkl81qwEMA
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
They say nothing new in this study, except to debunk their own basement fire theory...oh, and deny that the floors collapsing (explosions?) made a 'boom'.
Nice contradicions:
So....they saying fire weakened steel and caused the collapse of all three buildings...? wouldn't WTC7 then be the third skyscraper to collapse from fire....all within a few hours? They don't mention that coincidence...shoddy writing or intentionally misleading?
I like this too:
....And not another sentence about the evidence, nor any argument from anyone with a different opinion. Fair, balanced reporting :rolleyes:
FUCK YOU Larry, and fuck you Dara...the innocents killed (and the resulting political atmosphere) are the main reason people continue to look into this.
Well I believe this wholeheartedly what the government is saying or trying to say. Maybe this is being said now because some are getting closer to the truth.
However, It must be that fire for the first time in history in less than 24 hours take down a near 50 story building uniformly and at that speed. Wow, all 3 buildings on the same day simply amazing just simply amazing.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
wow.. that post was both accurate and sensible.
what the fuck are you doing on the MT?
i'm pretty sure it was Darth Vader who did it.