None of these might answer your questions, but I'm sure it'll help you see where people are coming from...
that's why I started this thread, cause I didn't want to talk about "this stuff"
I post a specific question that is crucial if you claim the US is BEHIND the attacks (not letting them happen)
that there are so many threads about "this stuff" out there is exactly the reason why I told people here to stick to the particular question and not start with more general discussion...there is not arrogance behind it, I assure you...I am just dying to find out how people explain US agents flying into those buildings (I take brainwashing made most sense to me so far)...
please do you have any opinion regarding this question?
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
cause there are easier way to get a war started by the single most spectacular(in a negative way) attack EVER carried out in history...
I believe you just have to claim that a country has weapons of mass destruction...
m.
of course not.
9/11 was so important to the Bush admin. It put the country in a complete state of fear and let him get away with so much, like the PATRIOT ACT, war in Afghanistan, etc.
I am just dying to find out how people explain US agents flying into those buildings (I take brainwashing made most sense to me so far)...
During the Vietnam war, when the army was walking in the forest and they get to an open area with no trees, they'd have to find out if there are enemy snipers hiding, and where they are.
Do you know how they did that?
They'd send one man to die for his country. He'd run out into the open and get shot. The army would then know where the sniper was.
It's not hard to get someone to kill himself for his country. The government could've threatened someone (his family, finances... anything), they could've brainwashed, or anything. That's not the hardest thing in 9/11 to figure out...
During the Vietnam war, when the army was walking in the forest and they get to an open area with no trees, they'd have to find out if there are enemy snipers hiding, and where they are.
Do you know how they did that?
They'd send one man to die for his country. He'd run out into the open and get shot. The army would then know where the sniper was.
It's not hard to get someone to kill himself for his country. The government could've threatened someone (his family, finances... anything), they could've brainwashed, or anything. That's not the hardest thing in 9/11 to figure out...
like I'm saying: he died FOR HIS COUNTRY, to defeat THE ENEMY...
I'm not stupid: US agents as pilots in 911 KILL THEIR COUNTRY for exactly WHAT????
is it so hard to see the difference?
and please check out the original post for my doubts about the other reasons you gave...
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
like I'm saying: he died FOR HIS COUNTRY, to defeat THE ENEMY...
I'm not stupid: US agents as pilots in 911 KILL THEIR COUNTRY for exactly WHAT????
is it so hard to see the difference?
and please check out the original post for my doubts about the other reasons you gave...
m.
m.
The guys who crashed into the towers werent american.
It's not hard to get someone to kill himself for his country. The government could've threatened someone (his family, finances... anything), they could've brainwashed, or anything. That's not the hardest thing in 9/11 to figure out...
as a matter of fact it is one of the hardest things...
and only 3 of the specialists here only give something that resembles an answer...
I say it again...911 US agents didn't die for their country, they actually killed a good part of it...they might have died for the administration...but why?
and don't you think that somebody who threatens your family and at the same time plans to use you to kill thousands of their own citizens, will leave your family alone after you killed yourself???
you have to try a little harder here...
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
now...US agents don't attack a hated enemy...and I tend to believe they didn't expect rewards in heaven...yet they must have pretty strong reasons to kill themselves and thousands of others of their own people...
and for what? so that the US, Bilderberg, BAnkers can gain more power, money, or influence?
Why would the US tell them "the only reason you're doing this is for us to gain more power, money, etc"... of course they wouldn't give them that reason. If the US wanted to assign some agents to carry this out, they'd probably find a way to justify it to the people doing this.
or was their family threatened? who would believe the family would be released after the attack by someone who plans on killing thousands of their own people?
Lots of people, probably.
and there is not a single attacker but a dozen. actually you can be pretty sure the families won't be released since they might have some suspicion?
The guys who crashed into the towers werent american.
so WHO were they?
before you said CIA agents...or CIA trained people...
so they died for their country you say? what country would that be? Afhanistan? Pakistan? SAudi-Arabia??
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
so WHO were they?
before you said CIA agents...or CIA trained people...
so they died for their country you say? what country would that be? Afhanistan? Pakistan? SAudi-Arabia??
m.
The CIA can hire agents outside of the US. Like Operation Paperclip and National Interest after WW2.
The CIA can hire agents outside of the US. Like Operation Paperclip and National Interest after WW2.
and they just like to KILL THEMSELVES for the US???
this is insane...
I will even be satisfied if you provide something similiar from history...
some who (wasn't insane) enganged in a mass killing of his own people, or people that he didn't feel absolutely no grudge against...kill themselves...and gain absolutely nothing...
has this ever been done before?
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
and they just like to KILL THEMSELVES for the US???
this is insane...
I will even be satisfied if you provide something similiar from history...
some who (wasn't insane) enganged in a mass killing of his own people, or people that he didn't feel absolutely no grudge against...kill themselves...and gain absolutely nothing...
has this ever been done before?
m.
Is it likely that a CIA, MI5, MI6, Mossad or any other government agency operative out there just presents themselves to a person, spills the beans on the whole plan and expects them to go along with it?
They will go through people who will find other people to do a job and be told something that would bear no resemblance to the real reason for the actions they are going to carry out.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
I am not from New York...
and still I'll say this...!!!no disrespect!!!
but who believes that CIA agents (of whatever nationality) can be made to kill themselves (for absolutely no reward, neither on earth nor in heaven) and kill thousands of people of their own nation/people they have absolutely no grudge against, can be led to BELIEVE ANYthing...
again: this has nothing to do with people who think the admin utilized the attacks or whatever...but people who actually insist on believing the US actually flew those planes in the buildings...and then triggered some explosions in there...
and by the way: the people who installed the explosives didn't die, but they had to have some pretty solid reasons too, to blow those things up...
!!!it is always easy to see the dark forces behind everything...!!!
!!!but as this post showed...when you get to the details...that is, still INDIVIDUALS(with individual goals, motivations, and reasons) have to carry out those plans...you easily reach the border of common sense...!!!
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
and they just like to KILL THEMSELVES for the US???
this is insane...
I will even be satisfied if you provide something similiar from history...
some who (wasn't insane) enganged in a mass killing of his own people, or people that he didn't feel absolutely no grudge against...kill themselves...and gain absolutely nothing...
has this ever been done before?
Is it likely that a CIA, MI5, MI6, Mossad or any other government agency operative out there just presents themselves to a person, spills the beans on the whole plan and expects them to go along with it?
They will go through people who will find other people to do a job and be told something that would bear no resemblance to the real reason for the actions they are going to carry out.
they will still have to persuade those people to kill themselves...for no reward...
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
PS: and I should add: people who believe Bush=Hitler (or Obama=Hitler) can be led to believe ANYthing
not only is it grotesquely FALSE but it is deeply respectless in the face of Millions and Millions of deaths that were cause by WWII in only 6 years...
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
you haven't even read the damn wikipedia article
he was BLAMED for it...but never did it say it anywhere that he did it together with them...
he was a darn COMMUNIST!!!!!!!!!!!!! from the netherlands!!!!!!!!!
in fact the nazis might have done it themselves (still disputed)
but in no way there were doing it TOGETHER
that's what I keep repeating...without facts I can form all kinds of opinions
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
sorry....gravity alone just does not do that folks....
no way...not on this planet...not in this universe.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Ok, but you asked to find something similair. Nazi's burning the reichstag for pwer is similair to the US bring down 3 buildings for power.
you don't get it man...
they burned down an empty builing...nobody died...nobody killed himself doing it (not on the nazi's side and not FOR the nazis)
how is that in any way similiar to kill thousands of your own citizens???
or...some killing himself and killing thousands of people from his own nation?
there is no connection between the two except the one you imagine...and I won't continue to argue this, because this is plain for EVERYone to see!!!
good night...
PS and the US didn't bring those buildings down...it was several INDIVIDUALS...and I am looking for the motivation of those individuals to do it...individuals make up societies...not dark forces...and you have to explain their behaviour in order to explain the world...
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
they burned down an empty builing...nobody died...nobody killed himself doing it (not on the nazi's side and not FOR the nazis)
how is that in any way similiar to kill thousands of your own citizens???
or...some killing himself and killing thousands of people from his own nation?
there is no connection between the two except the one you imagine...and I won't continue to argue this, because this is plain for EVERYone to see!!!
they will still have to persuade those people to kill themselves...for no reward...
Not really, if they go through people who find these people they do not persuade them to do anything, the person who has got this person onboard and brainwashed them is the one who has to persuade them not the guy with the plan at the top.
Why is it so hard to believe that a government agency could be the brains behind an attack, but yet so simple to see why any other extremist leader can easily persuade someone to kill themselves?
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
yeah I guess you're right....
you just have to be right...
dark forces and "groups" and "elites" do everything...
don't bother explain what the actual individuals involved were driven by...
actually I know what they were driven by...the more or less the same as any suicide attacker...killing a hated enemy, for heavenly rewards, personal hatred, revenge...whatever...
and yet I have to see how you explain to me someone from "the other" side killing himself for nothing...except maybe brainwash, okay...
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Terrorists using box cutters hijacked the planes and used their Cesna flight training to crash them into the buildings and are now enjoying their 70 virgins. But to quote Bob Dylan...
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain't got no name
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.
I'll take the opportinuty still to put my question to you again...
since you bring up your gravity story that has nothing to do with my question...
who flew the planes...and what was their reward/motivation?
maybe you can come up with something that makes sense...
m.
You're still on about that aspect? Honestly?
Who cares....GPS on pre programmed autopilot....human beings trained by the very same that are conducting the entire operation in the first place?
All the supposed "terrorist" pilots were completely inept to even fly a cessna.
In any event.....stell framed buildings (not to mention reinforced with concrete) don't fall down like a deck of cards...
elevator shafts were being worked on for 7 or 9 months prior.....access to inbetween all floors to entire frame during 9 am - 5 pm was 100% available.
Plus all the coinciding stories, the motive.....
The list goes on forever....
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
yeah I guess you're right....
you just have to be right...
dark forces and "groups" and "elites" do everything...
don't bother explain what the actual individuals involved were driven by...
actually I know what they were driven by...the more or less the same as any suicide attacker...killing a hated enemy, for heavenly rewards, personal hatred, revenge...whatever...
and yet I have to see how you explain to me someone from "the other" side killing himself for nothing...except maybe brainwash, okay...
m.
So your saying you want to know what drives someone to kill themselves for a cause? an ideal, fear, hatred?
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Not really, if they go through people who find these people they do not persuade them to do anything, the person who has got this person onboard and brainwashed them is the one who has to persuade them not the guy with the plan at the top.
Why is it so hard to believe that a government agency could be the brains behind an attack, but yet so simple to see why any other extremist leader can easily persuade someone to kill themselves?
because first: Bush(be he as he may) is not "any other extremist leader"
second: it makes absolutely no sense at all to harm your country in such an extraordinairy fashion to achieve your goals (whatever they may be)
third: pretty much all the "evidence" that is brought up by conspiracy theorists is a)unsourced b) taken from other conspiracy theories (some of them hundreds of years old, like Antisemitism) c) disproven or d) all the other three together...
I have yet to see a conspiracy theory that claims only the main (and true) facts of its thesis without throwing at least twice as much totally outragous claims in as well. Who has to use such an amount of deception to get its point across is absolutely worthless for anything, except entertainment(like the da vince code). If they are true and honest, there would be no need for deception...it's not that they are in a position of power where they have to hide things (not necessarily sinister things) (like governments).
It diverts people from real problems. Sure BUsh has done it...we just have to start a revolution and put the good guys in. and forget that it is clearly possible to eliminate terrorism, not by bombs...but by solving actual regional crisis with actual real people involved that have interests, motives, fears...living in situations with an individual historical and social background. By enganging problems in this manner individual solutions for the world's problems can be found (and I don't mean only terrorism), not by claiming the dark forces are behind it. The world is too complex to be controlled by a hundred, or even a million people...this is FACT...not opinion
rant over...
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Comments
that's why I started this thread, cause I didn't want to talk about "this stuff"
I post a specific question that is crucial if you claim the US is BEHIND the attacks (not letting them happen)
that there are so many threads about "this stuff" out there is exactly the reason why I told people here to stick to the particular question and not start with more general discussion...there is not arrogance behind it, I assure you...I am just dying to find out how people explain US agents flying into those buildings (I take brainwashing made most sense to me so far)...
please do you have any opinion regarding this question?
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
9/11 was so important to the Bush admin. It put the country in a complete state of fear and let him get away with so much, like the PATRIOT ACT, war in Afghanistan, etc.
Do you know how they did that?
They'd send one man to die for his country. He'd run out into the open and get shot. The army would then know where the sniper was.
It's not hard to get someone to kill himself for his country. The government could've threatened someone (his family, finances... anything), they could've brainwashed, or anything. That's not the hardest thing in 9/11 to figure out...
like I'm saying: he died FOR HIS COUNTRY, to defeat THE ENEMY...
I'm not stupid: US agents as pilots in 911 KILL THEIR COUNTRY for exactly WHAT????
is it so hard to see the difference?
and please check out the original post for my doubts about the other reasons you gave...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
as a matter of fact it is one of the hardest things...
and only 3 of the specialists here only give something that resembles an answer...
I say it again...911 US agents didn't die for their country, they actually killed a good part of it...they might have died for the administration...but why?
and don't you think that somebody who threatens your family and at the same time plans to use you to kill thousands of their own citizens, will leave your family alone after you killed yourself???
you have to try a little harder here...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Lots of people, probably.
I wouldn't know.
so WHO were they?
before you said CIA agents...or CIA trained people...
so they died for their country you say? what country would that be? Afhanistan? Pakistan? SAudi-Arabia??
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
and they just like to KILL THEMSELVES for the US???
this is insane...
I will even be satisfied if you provide something similiar from history...
some who (wasn't insane) enganged in a mass killing of his own people, or people that he didn't feel absolutely no grudge against...kill themselves...and gain absolutely nothing...
has this ever been done before?
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Is it likely that a CIA, MI5, MI6, Mossad or any other government agency operative out there just presents themselves to a person, spills the beans on the whole plan and expects them to go along with it?
They will go through people who will find other people to do a job and be told something that would bear no resemblance to the real reason for the actions they are going to carry out.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
and still I'll say this...!!!no disrespect!!!
but who believes that CIA agents (of whatever nationality) can be made to kill themselves (for absolutely no reward, neither on earth nor in heaven) and kill thousands of people of their own nation/people they have absolutely no grudge against, can be led to BELIEVE ANYthing...
again: this has nothing to do with people who think the admin utilized the attacks or whatever...but people who actually insist on believing the US actually flew those planes in the buildings...and then triggered some explosions in there...
and by the way: the people who installed the explosives didn't die, but they had to have some pretty solid reasons too, to blow those things up...
!!!it is always easy to see the dark forces behind everything...!!!
!!!but as this post showed...when you get to the details...that is, still INDIVIDUALS(with individual goals, motivations, and reasons) have to carry out those plans...you easily reach the border of common sense...!!!
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
they will still have to persuade those people to kill themselves...for no reward...
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
you have no clue...
did anyone kill himself setting this fire???
did thousands of people die???
not even the nazis pulled something like that off...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hitlerum
make sure to check it out carefully...
m.
PS: and I should add: people who believe Bush=Hitler (or Obama=Hitler) can be led to believe ANYthing
not only is it grotesquely FALSE but it is deeply respectless in the face of Millions and Millions of deaths that were cause by WWII in only 6 years...
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
the one that the nazis blamed for it
you haven't even read the damn wikipedia article
he was BLAMED for it...but never did it say it anywhere that he did it together with them...
he was a darn COMMUNIST!!!!!!!!!!!!! from the netherlands!!!!!!!!!
in fact the nazis might have done it themselves (still disputed)
but in no way there were doing it TOGETHER
that's what I keep repeating...without facts I can form all kinds of opinions
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
http://www.layscience.net/files/wtc/2.jpg
sorry....gravity alone just does not do that folks....
no way...not on this planet...not in this universe.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
you don't get it man...
they burned down an empty builing...nobody died...nobody killed himself doing it (not on the nazi's side and not FOR the nazis)
how is that in any way similiar to kill thousands of your own citizens???
or...some killing himself and killing thousands of people from his own nation?
there is no connection between the two except the one you imagine...and I won't continue to argue this, because this is plain for EVERYone to see!!!
good night...
PS and the US didn't bring those buildings down...it was several INDIVIDUALS...and I am looking for the motivation of those individuals to do it...individuals make up societies...not dark forces...and you have to explain their behaviour in order to explain the world...
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
I'll take the opportinuty still to put my question to you again...
since you bring up your gravity story that has nothing to do with my question...
who flew the planes...and what was their reward/motivation?
maybe you can come up with something that makes sense...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Not really, if they go through people who find these people they do not persuade them to do anything, the person who has got this person onboard and brainwashed them is the one who has to persuade them not the guy with the plan at the top.
Why is it so hard to believe that a government agency could be the brains behind an attack, but yet so simple to see why any other extremist leader can easily persuade someone to kill themselves?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
yeah I guess you're right....
you just have to be right...
dark forces and "groups" and "elites" do everything...
don't bother explain what the actual individuals involved were driven by...
actually I know what they were driven by...the more or less the same as any suicide attacker...killing a hated enemy, for heavenly rewards, personal hatred, revenge...whatever...
and yet I have to see how you explain to me someone from "the other" side killing himself for nothing...except maybe brainwash, okay...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain't got no name
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.
You're still on about that aspect? Honestly?
Who cares....GPS on pre programmed autopilot....human beings trained by the very same that are conducting the entire operation in the first place?
All the supposed "terrorist" pilots were completely inept to even fly a cessna.
In any event.....stell framed buildings (not to mention reinforced with concrete) don't fall down like a deck of cards...
elevator shafts were being worked on for 7 or 9 months prior.....access to inbetween all floors to entire frame during 9 am - 5 pm was 100% available.
Plus all the coinciding stories, the motive.....
The list goes on forever....
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
So your saying you want to know what drives someone to kill themselves for a cause? an ideal, fear, hatred?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
because first: Bush(be he as he may) is not "any other extremist leader"
second: it makes absolutely no sense at all to harm your country in such an extraordinairy fashion to achieve your goals (whatever they may be)
third: pretty much all the "evidence" that is brought up by conspiracy theorists is a)unsourced b) taken from other conspiracy theories (some of them hundreds of years old, like Antisemitism) c) disproven or d) all the other three together...
I have yet to see a conspiracy theory that claims only the main (and true) facts of its thesis without throwing at least twice as much totally outragous claims in as well. Who has to use such an amount of deception to get its point across is absolutely worthless for anything, except entertainment(like the da vince code). If they are true and honest, there would be no need for deception...it's not that they are in a position of power where they have to hide things (not necessarily sinister things) (like governments).
It diverts people from real problems. Sure BUsh has done it...we just have to start a revolution and put the good guys in. and forget that it is clearly possible to eliminate terrorism, not by bombs...but by solving actual regional crisis with actual real people involved that have interests, motives, fears...living in situations with an individual historical and social background. By enganging problems in this manner individual solutions for the world's problems can be found (and I don't mean only terrorism), not by claiming the dark forces are behind it. The world is too complex to be controlled by a hundred, or even a million people...this is FACT...not opinion
rant over...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."