you broke the forum rules by calling anyone that believes in 9/11 conspiracy complete fools. That was the point.
911 is personal to me too, and I'm not even American....it changed the WORLD, yes? I'm sure it's personal to those in Afghanistan and Iraq who have had their lives changed (read: ended or ruined) by the things the Bush admin has done with the emotional momentum from that day. Being a 'patriot', or the fact that you looked at some plaque in a field gives your opinion no more validity that anyone elses'.
btw - patriots question and criticize their government....sounds like you are ignoring a lot of questions/criticism that remain unanswered/unadressed...
The sacred field in Shanksville is certainly much more than a "plaque in a field". It pays respects to some awesome heroes... one who happened to be a German citizen and one who was a Japanese citizen. The fact that you're not an American apparently doesn't give you the same perspective that it gives someone who is an American.
I criticize my government all of the time. Especially over pocket book issues. I don't ignore anything associated with 911. I fully believe that it wasn't a conspiracy.... bottomline. If other folks want to waste their time trying to find a conspiracy out of 911, then knock yourself out.
United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
so you believe that the CIA agents commited a suicide attack?
believe me or not, this is not mocking...I just want to get things straight!
m.
Whether they were agents or not is up for discussion. But I believe the CIA was involved in training them. Bin Laden was an agent though. His code name is/was Tim Osman. Google it.
Whether they were agents or not is up for discussion. But I believe the CIA was involved in training them. Bin Laden was an agent though. His code name is/was Tim Osman. Google it.
this question is central to anyone who believes that the US was actively involved in the attack (not the ones who believe the US just let it happen!!!)
Because...how would the US coerce/reward anyone who would fly the planes into the buildings FOR THEM. money? promise of heaven? threat of death to their families?
cause obviously the motive couldn't have been sheer hate of the us, right??
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Whether they were agents or not is up for discussion. But I believe the CIA was involved in training them. Bin Laden was an agent though. His code name is/was Tim Osman. Google it.
whether or not bin laden was an cia agent is not up for question here (in a direct sense)...
he could well have been an agent, for example when the us was active in Afghanistan against the soviets...or do you have actually seen his membership status and it said 2001?
as I said...let's not digress...I've posed a simple question...and so far only you have voiced an opinion...although only yesterday there have been many more people who said the US blew those buildings up...
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
see my above post...
it's not a secret he was working with the US at the time of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan...
Donald Rumsfeld shook Sadam's hand...yet he was hanged a couple of years later...
Don't want to live up to Godwin's law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law
but Hitler had a contract with Stalin that regulated the partition of Poland between the SU and Germany...yet only a couple of years later Hitler waged war against the SU and 16 million soviet people died in it...(I think here the analogy is valid...so don't shun me because I mentioned Hitler;))
does that mean Stalin was "in" on it???
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
I fully believe that it wasn't a conspiracy.... bottomline.
Let's leave the stupid technical word "conspiracy" (which is now associated with CRAZY SHIT) out...
do you believe there is more to 9/11 than we know or not?
Even if you DON'T believe the US had ANYTHING to do with it, wouldn't you agree that the government is STILL leaving LOTS of ESSENTIAL information out? Don't you think it was a strange day where the way the US reacted was just weird?
One of the questions that still remains weird as shit to me is why the fucking President, after hearing that a plane just flew into one of the WTC buildings... remained in his seat... reading a story to some kids... But that's one of the smallest questions in regards to 9/11...
whether or not bin laden was an cia agent is not up for question here (in a direct sense)...
he could well have been an agent, for example when the us was active in Afghanistan against the soviets...or do you have actually seen his membership status and it said 2001?
as I said...let's not digress...I've posed a simple question...and so far only you have voiced an opinion...although only yesterday there have been many more people who said the US blew those buildings up...
m.
He met with the CIA in July of 1999/2000(believe it was 2000) when he was on dialysis. I dont think he was involved much after the war but tabs were kept on him. I believe he was used as a scapegoat because we knew his health was failing and he wouldnt be alive much longer.
Let's leave the stupid technical word "conspiracy" (which is now associated with CRAZY SHIT) out...
do you believe there is more to 9/11 than we know or not?
Even if you DON'T believe the US had ANYTHING to do with it, wouldn't you agree that the government is STILL leaving LOTS of ESSENTIAL information out? Don't you think it was a strange day where the way the US reacted was just weird?
One of the questions that still remains weird as shit to me is why the fucking President, after hearing that a plane just flew into one of the WTC buildings... remained in his seat... reading a story to some kids... But that's one of the smallest questions in regards to 9/11...
this is not the reason for this threat...people can write about it in the "911 poll"
it draws away the attention from this little (seemingly painful) question
I specifically opened it, because I wanted to keep general talk about who did it or why out, and get people who BELIEVE THE US BLEW UP those buildings think flew those planes, and how the US could make them fly them...
I just want someone to explain that to me...as I said...not with facts...but their oppinion...
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
He met with the CIA in July of 1999/2000(believe it was 2000) when he was on dialysis. I dont think he was involved much after the war but tabs were kept on him. I believe he was used as a scapegoat because we knew his health was failing and he wouldnt be alive much longer.
and he played along? why?
did he help the CIA instruct the pilots?
how where the pilots motivated to attack their own boss?
and DIE doing that!!!
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
do you believe there is more to 9/11 than we know or not?
Sure. I believe there is more to a lot of things than we know. Not necessarily in a bad or sinister way. Just that's impossible for us to know everything about anything.
Even if you DON'T believe the US had ANYTHING to do with it, wouldn't you agree that the government is STILL leaving LOTS of ESSENTIAL information out? Don't you think it was a strange day where the way the US reacted was just weird?
I suppose it would depend on what you meant by "essential." You're right, it was a strange day. We're not used to having planes intentionally flown into buildings over here. Call us crazy. What is or is not a weird reaction in that situation? It had never happened before, to most of us, so how were we supposed to react?
One of the questions that still remains weird as shit to me is why the fucking President, after hearing that a plane just flew into one of the WTC buildings... remained in his seat... reading a story to some kids... But that's one of the smallest questions in regards to 9/11...
Shock is a hell of a drug. How did FDR react upon being immediately informed that Pearl Harbor had been hit? Maybe he was suddenly cured of polio, leapt from his wheelchair and sprang into action. Or maybe he sat there and finished reading "My Pet Goat." We don't know, because there weren't television cameras following the president every-fuckin'-where back then.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
C'mon, you aren't supposed to bring reason to a crazy fight
This is why many of us no longer participate in this train wreck and rather make poo jokes on the AET, which is slightly more engaging ..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Sure. I believe there is more to a lot of things than we know. Not necessarily in a bad or sinister way. Just that's impossible for us to know everything about anything.
There are lots of questions out there that inquire as to the events of 9/11... it's a highly debatable topic as too much was left unanswered and THAT'S why these conspiracy theories or whatever you want to call them exist. People try to piece together all the information...
I suppose it would depend on what you meant by "essential." You're right, it was a strange day. We're not used to having planes intentionally flown into buildings over here. Call us crazy. What is or is not a weird reaction in that situation? It had never happened before, to most of us, so how were we supposed to react?
I'm talking about the government. Not us.
Shock is a hell of a drug. How did FDR react upon being immediately informed that Pearl Harbor had been hit? Maybe he was suddenly cured of polio, leapt from his wheelchair and sprang into action. Or maybe he sat there and finished reading "My Pet Goat." We don't know, because there weren't television cameras following the president every-fuckin'-where back then.
Shock? I'm sure if FDR were reading something to some kids when he found out about Pearl Harbor, he wouldn't mind setting the fucking book aside to deal with the issue... and like Isaid, that was just an example of a much BIGGER problem with a LOT more questions that have been left unanswered.
After all the Bush administration has done, why would anyone put it past them to do something like this?
the reason I'm posing the original question is basically that I can't see how anybody could be motivated to kill himself attacking their own government (even with its consent)...now you can tell me there are a lot of crazy people out there...but come on?
give me some oppinion on how a person can be coerced into doing that if not by hate...
if the US did it, there must have been something behind it like money or power (right?), or do you believe that there was a similiar ideology involved to the ones islamists use, like going to heaven (remember though: suicide attacks are carried out against the enemy, not as some kind of hoax)? if not, can you imagine somebody kill themselves so that other people (in banks, the US government, in the pentagon, in Hotel Bilderberg) can gain money or power or influence???
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
How does a suicide bomber blow himself up in a crowded place? Their could be endless reasons. Religion/threat/fool/brainwashed.
this, as I explain in an edit in the original post, is something entirely different from a common suicide attack.
a suicide attack is carried out against a hated enemy, while the attacker additionally might believe that he does something good and gets extra rewards in heaven...
now...US agents don't attack a hated enemy...and I tend to believe they didn't expect rewards in heaven...yet they must have pretty strong reasons to kill themselves and thousands of others of their own people...
and for what? so that the US, Bilderberg, BAnkers can gain more power, money, or influence?
or was their family threatened? who would believe the family would be released after the attack by someone who plans on killing thousands of their own people? and there is not a single attacker but a dozen. actually you can be pretty sure the families won't be released since they might have some suspicion?
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
I don't have any specific theories but 9/11 just doesn't pass the smell test with me. We have a memo to Bush a month before warning of an attack but we are so unprepared we can't scramble fighter planes in time to at least shoot down any of the 4 hijacked planes? The towers have been purchased and insured 6 months before making Larry Silverstein $4 billion on asbestos laden buildings that just evaporate including building 7 which wasn't even hit by a plane. In a world where every traffic light is under video surveillance we have virtually no footage of the Pentagon being hit. All of Bin Laden's family are quickly ushered out of the country. Saudi Arabia is held unaccountable even though that is where the terrorists were from. We invade Iraq causing massive profits for oil companies and military contractors the two industries that Bush/Cheney came from. Cheney's Halliburton traded for about $10 before the Iraq War and was $53 last month. Exxon Mobil was $35 before the Iraq War and was $88 last month. Mission accomplished.
All of this is easily explained without a conspiracy theory but if you trust this corporate run government with anything you are even crazier than the conspiracy nutjobs.
...and claims it was the jews or the us secret service...
man, you might think he would like stiring crazy shit up...
I don't think Osama bin Laden is anything close to a reliable source here...
later he claimed(I have no source) that while he wasn't behind the attacks, he supported the people behind them...is that a secret confession?
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
this is not the reason for this threat...people can write about it in the "911 poll"
it draws away the attention from this little (seemingly painful) question
I specifically opened it, because I wanted to keep general talk about who did it or why out, and get people who BELIEVE THE US BLEW UP those buildings think flew those planes, and how the US could make them fly them...
I just want someone to explain that to me...as I said...not with facts...but their oppinion...
Comments
The sacred field in Shanksville is certainly much more than a "plaque in a field". It pays respects to some awesome heroes... one who happened to be a German citizen and one who was a Japanese citizen. The fact that you're not an American apparently doesn't give you the same perspective that it gives someone who is an American.
I criticize my government all of the time. Especially over pocket book issues. I don't ignore anything associated with 911. I fully believe that it wasn't a conspiracy.... bottomline. If other folks want to waste their time trying to find a conspiracy out of 911, then knock yourself out.
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
for the least they could possibly do
Do you have ANY non-tinfoil hat evidence to back this up? Was this before, during or after the mujahadien?
Now, if you'd said his code name was Tim Bierman, I might've believed you
—Dorothy Parker
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg
this question is central to anyone who believes that the US was actively involved in the attack (not the ones who believe the US just let it happen!!!)
Because...how would the US coerce/reward anyone who would fly the planes into the buildings FOR THEM. money? promise of heaven? threat of death to their families?
cause obviously the motive couldn't have been sheer hate of the us, right??
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
whether or not bin laden was an cia agent is not up for question here (in a direct sense)...
he could well have been an agent, for example when the us was active in Afghanistan against the soviets...or do you have actually seen his membership status and it said 2001?
as I said...let's not digress...I've posed a simple question...and so far only you have voiced an opinion...although only yesterday there have been many more people who said the US blew those buildings up...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
So there's no chance this has changed in 20 years, eh?
for the least they could possibly do
see my above post...
it's not a secret he was working with the US at the time of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan...
Donald Rumsfeld shook Sadam's hand...yet he was hanged a couple of years later...
Don't want to live up to Godwin's law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law
but Hitler had a contract with Stalin that regulated the partition of Poland between the SU and Germany...yet only a couple of years later Hitler waged war against the SU and 16 million soviet people died in it...(I think here the analogy is valid...so don't shun me because I mentioned Hitler;))
does that mean Stalin was "in" on it???
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
didn't you know... he swore an oath on J. Edgar's tutu
—Dorothy Parker
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg
OK, then. Moving right along ...
for the least they could possibly do
C'mon, you aren't supposed to bring reason to a crazy fight
—Dorothy Parker
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg
do you believe there is more to 9/11 than we know or not?
Even if you DON'T believe the US had ANYTHING to do with it, wouldn't you agree that the government is STILL leaving LOTS of ESSENTIAL information out? Don't you think it was a strange day where the way the US reacted was just weird?
One of the questions that still remains weird as shit to me is why the fucking President, after hearing that a plane just flew into one of the WTC buildings... remained in his seat... reading a story to some kids... But that's one of the smallest questions in regards to 9/11...
this is not the reason for this threat...people can write about it in the "911 poll"
it draws away the attention from this little (seemingly painful) question
I specifically opened it, because I wanted to keep general talk about who did it or why out, and get people who BELIEVE THE US BLEW UP those buildings think flew those planes, and how the US could make them fly them...
I just want someone to explain that to me...as I said...not with facts...but their oppinion...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
you know, y'all provide way too much anecdotal evidence for the continued criminalization of marijuana
—Dorothy Parker
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg
and he played along? why?
did he help the CIA instruct the pilots?
how where the pilots motivated to attack their own boss?
and DIE doing that!!!
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Sure. I believe there is more to a lot of things than we know. Not necessarily in a bad or sinister way. Just that's impossible for us to know everything about anything.
I suppose it would depend on what you meant by "essential." You're right, it was a strange day. We're not used to having planes intentionally flown into buildings over here. Call us crazy. What is or is not a weird reaction in that situation? It had never happened before, to most of us, so how were we supposed to react?
Shock is a hell of a drug. How did FDR react upon being immediately informed that Pearl Harbor had been hit? Maybe he was suddenly cured of polio, leapt from his wheelchair and sprang into action. Or maybe he sat there and finished reading "My Pet Goat." We don't know, because there weren't television cameras following the president every-fuckin'-where back then.
for the least they could possibly do
This is why many of us no longer participate in this train wreck and rather make poo jokes on the AET, which is slightly more engaging
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
http://www.911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html See first. How does a suicide bomber blow himself up in a crowded place? Their could be endless reasons. Religion/threat/fool/brainwashed.
Source: Ummat, Urdu-language daily newspaper based in Karachi, Pakistan -
Friday, 28 September 2001 - pages 1, 7.
I'm talking about the government. Not us.
Shock? I'm sure if FDR were reading something to some kids when he found out about Pearl Harbor, he wouldn't mind setting the fucking book aside to deal with the issue... and like Isaid, that was just an example of a much BIGGER problem with a LOT more questions that have been left unanswered.
After all the Bush administration has done, why would anyone put it past them to do something like this?
give me some oppinion on how a person can be coerced into doing that if not by hate...
if the US did it, there must have been something behind it like money or power (right?), or do you believe that there was a similiar ideology involved to the ones islamists use, like going to heaven (remember though: suicide attacks are carried out against the enemy, not as some kind of hoax)? if not, can you imagine somebody kill themselves so that other people (in banks, the US government, in the pentagon, in Hotel Bilderberg) can gain money or power or influence???
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
this, as I explain in an edit in the original post, is something entirely different from a common suicide attack.
a suicide attack is carried out against a hated enemy, while the attacker additionally might believe that he does something good and gets extra rewards in heaven...
now...US agents don't attack a hated enemy...and I tend to believe they didn't expect rewards in heaven...yet they must have pretty strong reasons to kill themselves and thousands of others of their own people...
and for what? so that the US, Bilderberg, BAnkers can gain more power, money, or influence?
or was their family threatened? who would believe the family would be released after the attack by someone who plans on killing thousands of their own people? and there is not a single attacker but a dozen. actually you can be pretty sure the families won't be released since they might have some suspicion?
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
All of this is easily explained without a conspiracy theory but if you trust this corporate run government with anything you are even crazier than the conspiracy nutjobs.
man, you might think he would like stiring crazy shit up...
I don't think Osama bin Laden is anything close to a reliable source here...
later he claimed(I have no source) that while he wasn't behind the attacks, he supported the people behind them...is that a secret confession?
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=292599
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=276094
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=286012
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=256912
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=292756
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=286990
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=286990
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=279324
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=270653
None of these might answer your questions, but I'm sure it'll help you see where people are coming from...
cause there are easier way to get a war started by the single most spectacular(in a negative way) attack EVER carried out in history...
I believe you just have to claim that a country has weapons of mass destruction...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."