Hamas...just a bunch of loveable knuckleheads

spiral out

jlew24asu wrote:

im basing my argument purely on the influence jews have in america vs muslims. most of it is only my opinion. a side by side list of successful influence jews and muslims would be great to see.

my point of this argument is that we cant simply turn our back on Israel and pull out all financial support to them simply because "its not our problem"

Yes you could pull the finacial support. But it won't happen.

soulsinging

810wmb wrote:

we'll be great satan until all of us are dead...accept the fact.

i dunno. i go to school with a few muslims. not one of them has ever tried to kill me.

ps. arabic women are so hot.

MrBrian

mammasan wrote:

Just because there are richer Jews in this country than Muslims doesn't make their contribution to American society any greater. Also if you truely believe that the only thing that Muslims in this country have to offer is fucking Louis Farrakan then you are truely blinded. If you need a list of influential Muslim Americans to prove my point I would be more that happy to prove one.

i'll help.

muslims came to america many years before columbus, plus something like half the slaves were muslims, the ones who helped build america.
---
But beside all this jlew24asu. can you not see they israel creates it's own problems. then get's it's fat stupid bigger brother (america) to go help it out.

soulsinging

MrBrian wrote:

But beside all this jlew24asu. can you not see they israel creates it's own problems. then get's it's fat stupid bigger brother (america) to go help it out.

isn't that the kind of bailout enabling that folks like jlew use as a reason to end walfare? those poor folks in the ghetto keep popping out babies, so we shouldn't give them money cos they brought it on themselves? those israelis keep killing palestinian kids, so we shouldn't give them money cos they brought it on themselves. of course, lew would say the israelis do it becos they are forced to by the threat of invasion. how liberal! becos i would say the poor folks are forced to rely on welfare due to racism, poverty, and corporate greed.

who knew the right could be so liberal in terms of not holding someone accountable for their actions and decisions!

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

conservative islam has a different definition of freedom. as does a welfare liberal vs. a libertarian.

come on dude. a different definition of freedom? I would love to know what "free" about conservative Islam.

soulsinging wrote:

my point remains. yes there are many rich and influential jews in america. why should a few privileged elites dictate policies for us? esp policy that leads to such nightmarish entanglements as the ones we have in the middle east?

and my point is, we cant turn our back on those "privileged elite". although I would like refer to them as hard working capitalists.

soulsinging wrote:

what does the US gain from involvement there?

a free democracy in the middle east.

soulsinging wrote:

what does the US lose by staying out?

Israel being invaded and destroyed.

soulsinging wrote:

and above all, which you still cannot answer, what the fuck do we care what people in the middle east do to themselves and each other? i don't give a fuck. it's THEIR problem.

you have every right not to care. some people do.

soulsinging wrote:

this original article shows that conservative islamists are as eager to kill each other as us. so why make ourselves a target? let them sort their own shit out.

I agree. I have no interest in getting involved with them, let hamas and the PLO kill each other all day.

810wmb

soulsinging wrote:

i dunno. i go to school with a few muslims. not one of them has ever tried to kill me.

ps. arabic women are so hot.

hehehehe, give 'em time...

i think they're hot too, just can't see enough of 'em....unless you have an eye fetish...which i could develop easy!

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

come on dude. a different definition of freedom? I would love to know what "free" about conservative Islam.

freedom is subjective in many senses. you cannot talk about freedom without the rest of the equation... from what to do what? we say freedom from taxes to spend as we see fit. they say freedom from spiritual corruption to be close to god (not far off from hardline american christians that you would not hesitate to say support freedom, they just have harsher penalties cos they're pissed that they live in a fucking desert).

jlew24asu wrote:

and my point is, we cant turn our back on those "privileged elite". although I would like refer to them as hard working capitalists.

you keep saying we can't turn our backs on them and i keep asking why not. you have not answered. can you?

jlew24asu wrote:

a free democracy in the middle east.

Israel being invaded and destroyed.

this does not answer my question at all either. what does the former gain us? what benefit do we derive from that? how does it in any way effect the daily lives of american citizens? the same goes for the second question. what does the existence or non-existence of israel have to do with the daily lives of americans?

jlew24asu wrote:

I agree. I have no interest in getting involved with them, let hamas and the PLO kill each other all day.

ah, but you have spent this whole thread telling me the exact opposite: that you have a vested interest in getting involved with them and that we should absolutely be involved with them.

mammasan

jlew24asu wrote:

im basing my argument purely on the influence jews have in america vs muslims. most of it is only my opinion. a side by side list of successful influence jews and muslims would be great to see.

my point of this argument is that we cant simply turn our back on Israel and pull out all financial support to them simply because "its not our problem"

Here is a list of some influencial Muslims in the US

Moutapha Akkad
Louay M. Safi
Wafa Sultan
Fawwaz Ulaby
Ghulab Khan
Saleem Ali
Rob Asghar
Bapsi Sidhwa
Mansoor Ijaz
Fareed Zakaria
David Chappelle
John Coltrane
Ahmad Adaya
Ahmed Fahour
Nemir Kirdar
Kareen Abdul Jabbar
Muhammed Ali
Zalmay Khalilzad
Malcolm X
Kenan Shair
Haitham Alfuqahaa
Safi Qureshey
Farooq Kathwari
Abdul Malik Mujahid
Fazlur Khan - you can thank him for the beautiful Sears Tower that adorns your skyline.
Ahmed H. Zewail

soulsinging

810wmb wrote:

hehehehe, give 'em time...

i think they're hot too, just can't see enough of 'em....unless you have an eye fetish...which i could develop easy!

eh, im not worried. i'm more worried about the christians. the muslims round here seem to mind their own business and not really give a flying fuck what i do. it's the christians who keep trying to push me around and mess with me.

but yeah, i think that is the source of all problems in the middle east. it's hot as hell, the women are pissed they have to wear that shit in the heat, and the men are sexually frustrated cos they get no eye candy and the women hold out due to their pissed offness.

mammasan

810wmb wrote:

we'll be great satan until all of us are dead...accept the fact.

Well having met many Muslims and studied the Qu'ran I would disagree with you. Once our policy toward the region changes you will see a great shift in opinion towrads the west.

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

freedom is subjective in many senses. you cannot talk about freedom without the rest of the equation... from what to do what? we say freedom from taxes to spend as we see fit. they say freedom from spiritual corruption to be close to god (not far off from hardline american christians that you would not hesitate to say support freedom, they just have harsher penalties cos they're pissed that they live in a fucking desert).

they are not free to think as they want. thats what I'm talking about.

soulsinging wrote:

you keep saying we can't turn our backs on them and i keep asking why not. you have not answered. can you?

I've answered this 3 times now. we can not turn our backs on them becuase they would get invaded and destroyed if you pulled out financial and military support.

soulsinging wrote:

this does not answer my question at all either. what does the former gain us? what benefit do we derive from that? how does it in any way effect the daily lives of american citizens? the same goes for the second question. what does the existence or non-existence of israel have to do with the daily lives of americans?

so we should just let Israel be destroyed? since your answer seems to be yes, lets just agree to disagree.

soulsinging wrote:

ah, but you have spent this whole thread telling me the exact opposite: that you have a vested interest in getting involved with them and that we should absolutely be involved with them.

involved with Israel, not hamas.

MrBrian

mammasan wrote:

Well having met many Muslims and studied the Qu'ran I would disagree with you. Once our policy toward the region changes you will see a great shift in opinion towrads the west.

and that can be based off the fact that before the creation of israel muslims,jews and christians lived in relative peace in Palestine.

spiral out

jlew24asu wrote:

I've answered this 3 times now. we can not turn our backs on them becuase they would get invaded and destroyed if you pulled out financial and military support.

Lol, who is going to destroy isreal? people who blow themselves up, come on read the media out side of america it reports things that are not allowed to be reported where you live.

Oh and as your press isn't free your not that free are you?

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

they are not free to think as they want. thats what I'm talking about.

exactly. and my point is you think that freedom of worship is more important than freedom to live in harmony. it's a judgment call. if everyone over there was muslim, everyone would know their role and place and society could exist peacefully for the most part. that doesn't appeal to me, but i don't have to live there so i say let them sort it out among themselves.

jlew24asu wrote:

I've answered this 3 times now. we can not turn our backs on them becuase they would get invaded and destroyed if you pulled out financial and military support.

and again, you've not told me why that matter to americans.

jlew24asu wrote:

so we should just let Israel be destroyed? since your answer seems to be yes, lets just agree to disagree.

again, way to dodge the question like a typical neo-con. what does that matter to the average american? sure we can agree to disagree. i don't much care what goes on in israel. i'm curious what crucial role the existence of israel plays in the daily lives of americans. becos i suspect even you know the answer is none and this is ultimately about you thinking islam is barbaric and the jews are civilized from a western perspective and thus we should protect them becos they are more like us than muslims.

jlew24asu wrote:

involved with Israel, not hamas.

you can't pick and choose. there is no way to be involved with israel without involving ourselves with hamas and other muslim terrorist groups. us propping up israel makes us a target for islamic extremist violence. why is backing israel worth the cost in american lives? i keep asking, and you keep dodging. what good do we get from israel that makes it worth the price we've paid.

jlew24asu

spiral out wrote:

Lol, who is going to destroy isreal? people who blow themselves up, come on read the media out side of america it reports things that are not allowed to be reported where you live.

if Israel has no military backing from the US guess what will happen to their military capabilities??? and dont tell me Hezbolla (by way of Iran and syria backing) isnt fully capable to out arming a defenseless Israel.

spiral out wrote:

Oh and as your press isn't free your not that free are you?

this is twice now spiral. what the hell does this mean? my press isnt free? since when

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Iran has no interest in becoming the #1 enemy of the world by attacking Israel.

It's far to critical a move, and any act of aggression by them would be scrutinized to the N'th degree.

Ironically, the Jews have the holocaust as life insurance. No one will be allowed to make acts of aggression towards them unfairly.

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

again, way to dodge the question like a typical neo-con. what does that matter to the average american? sure we can agree to disagree. i don't much care what goes on in israel. i'm curious what crucial role the existence of israel plays in the daily lives of americans. becos i suspect even you know the answer is none and this is ultimately about you thinking islam is barbaric and the jews are civilized from a western perspective and thus we should protect them becos they are more like us than muslims.

shit like this really pisses me off. how is this like a typical neo con? I do not care to see Israel be destroyed. if the muslim countries in the region had the means and didnt have a threat of US retaliation, Israel would be gone. that may not mean much to you personally. but it does to America and many people living here.

soulsinging wrote:

you can't pick and choose. there is no way to be involved with israel without involving ourselves with hamas and other muslim terrorist groups. us propping up israel makes us a target for islamic extremist violence. why is backing israel worth the cost in american lives? i keep asking, and you keep dodging. what good do we get from israel that makes it worth the price we've paid.

I absoultely can pick and choose. I would nothing to do with a hateful organization like Hamas. I do not want to support them in anyway.

enough with saying I keep dodging your questions. you usually arent an asshole but this is getting tiresome. just because you dont like my answers doesnt mean I'm dodging anything.

the price is worth it because we are getting a free democratic Israeli country in the middle east. you dont want that, I get it.

810wmb

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Iran has no interest in becoming the #1 enemy of the world by attacking Israel.

hitler prob didn't either, but if one feels it's his calling, he ain't too fucking worried about the rest of the world.

remember, if they go out in a blaze of glory, the get to nail some virgins

mammasan

jlew24asu wrote:

if Israel has no military backing from the US guess what will happen to their military capabilities??? and dont tell me Hezbolla (by way of Iran and syria backing) isnt fully capable to out arming a defenseless Israel.



this is twice now spiral. what the hell does this mean? my press isnt free? since when

I don't know about other here but I'm not suggesting that we cut ties with Irsael. We can support Israel militarily but then we also have to face the consequences of their actions. As I have stated before Israel is often barbaric in the way it retaliates to terrorist attacks. If we feel that we must provide Israel with military aid in order to defend itself it should also come with the responsibility of chastising them when they go too far, which the US government does not do. It is not the selling of arms and weaponary that I find irresponsible but the fact that when the international community want to send a message to Israel about it's tactics we are quick to block that attempt and defend Israel's actions tooth and nail knowing that their actions where wrong.

810wmb

jlew24asu wrote:

I do not care to see Israel be destroyed. if the muslim countries in the region had the means and didnt have a threat of US retaliation, Israel would be gone. that may not mean much to you personally. but it does to America and many people living here.

correct