Any Castro defenders here?

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  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    :eek:


    this is getting good. I can see why people confuse our posts as being the same. :D
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    farfromglorified wrote:
    They are, in terms of the mechanics of an embargo. Both are precluded from trading from the other.
    They are not on equal footing. Embargoes don't exist in any Randian vacuum.

    farfromglorified wrote:
    You suggested it was a "kick in the face".
    That was back when I was talking about cats as a metaphor. Would "kick in the wallet" better suit you?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    RainDog wrote:
    They are not on equal footing. Embargoes don't exist in any Randian vacuum.

    Hehe...you're entirely right. They don't exist in a vacuum. They exist in a world where countries are more productive than others. Yet those who blame an embargo pretend they are in a vacuum.
    That was back when I was talking about cats as a metaphor. Would "kick in the wallet" better suit you?

    Yes, it would.
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Hehe...you're entirely right. They don't exist in a vacuum. They exist in a world where countries are more productive than others. Yet those who blame an embargo pretend they are in a vacuum.
    There's never going to be only one reason. There's never only one reason for anything. Yet you seem to suggest that the embargo isn't having much of an effect at all.

    Yes, we do exist in a world where countries are more productive than others. We also exist in a world where some countries have more innate capacity for production than others. So we're back to my original point - the embargo hurts Cuba more than it hurts America because of the differences in size; size of economy, size of production capacity, size of influence, etc.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    RainDog wrote:
    There's never going to be only one reason. There's never only one reason for anything. Yet you seem to suggest that the embargo isn't having much of an effect at all.

    Yes, we do exist in a world where countries are more productive than others. We also exist in a world where some countries have more innate capacity for production than others. So we're back to my original point - the embargo hurts Cuba more than it hurts America because of the differences in size; size of economy, size of production capacity, size of influence, etc.

    It's a political embargo more than an economic one.
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  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    It's a political embargo more than an economic one.


    again with a comment that makes no sense. you are on fire today
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    gue_barium wrote:
    It's a political embargo more than an economic one.

    Put that bong away dude! :rolleyes:
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Put that bong away dude! :rolleyes:

    What?

    Seriously, nearly all the posts here assume an attitude as though we're on the newly formed Cuban-American Fair Trade Commission, or some such shit. The reality is, is that embargo is still in place, and there's no good reason for it. Cuba wants to conduct it's economic affairs as it sees fit; they don't want another Batista-like era of private interest shlups from the US slashing and burning their countryside, and taking with it the culture and identity that they have so hard won. America can't do shit to lift the embargo because our current and long standing "government" interests involve doing just that.
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  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Yes, I understand that. But based on the logic of embargo-as-primary-cause-of-misery, how come the embargo's effects on America are not equal to its effects on Cuba? I mean, I can't buy Cuban products just like they can't by mine. Yet how come things are better for me?

    Things are better for you because the US can prove many things that people need without having to import them. Food, medicine, clothing, building materials, metal ore, etc... can all be produced here. Cuba on the other hand does not have the abundat natural resources that we do. So an Embrago would have a far greater impact on them.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    ...and the $-sign daze begins...
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    What?

    Seriously, nearly all the posts here assume an attitude as though we're on the newly formed Cuban-American Fair Trade Commission, or some such shit. The reality is, is that embargo is still in place, and there's no good reason for it. Cuba wants to conduct it's economic affairs as it sees fit; they don't want another Batista-like era of private interest shlups from the US slashing and burning their countryside, and taking with it the culture and identity that they have so hard won. America can't do shit to lift the embargo because our current and long standing "government" interests involve doing just that.

    So, what does our government do?

    Anyone?
    Anyone?
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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    mammasan wrote:
    Things are better for you because the US can prove many things that people need without having to import them. Food, medicine, clothing, building materials, metal ore, etc... can all be produced here. Cuba on the other hand does not have the abundat natural resources that we do. So an Embrago would have a far greater impact on them.

    Umm...all the things you list are largely imported by Americans other than food and medicine. Furthermore, Cuba may import all those things as well from others.

    What everyone here is ignoring is that, absent the embargo, Cuba would still have to trade for the things they want, giving value for value. And Cuba has very little to offer. It was the same before the embargo. It will be the same after the embargo.

    Again, I'm all for lifting the embargo. But it isn't going to make the situation in Cuba much better.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    So, what does our government do?

    Anyone?
    Anyone?


    there you go talking to yourself again. dude you are pure entertainment
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    So, what does our government do?

    Get the fuck out of the way. That's what.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    gue_barium wrote:
    What?

    Cuba wants to conduct it's economic affairs as it sees fit; they don't want another Batista-like era of private interest shlups from the US slashing and burning their countryside, and taking with it the culture and identity that they have so hard won.

    That's the impression I got from most locals when I was there.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Umm...all the things you list are largely imported by Americans other than food and medicine. Furthermore, Cuba may import all those things as well from others.

    What everyone here is ignoring is that, absent the embargo, Cuba would still have to trade for the things they want, giving value for value. And Cuba has very little to offer. It was the same before the embargo. It will be the same after the embargo.

    Again, I'm all for lifting the embargo. But it isn't going to make the situation in Cuba much better.

    It will improve slightly, but you are right in stating that it will not make a dramatic change. To lifting the embargo is more of a diplomatic improvment than an economic one.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Get the fuck out of the way. That's what.

    No. It fractionalizes a community for simply being a community. And it propogates and supports all the malicious rhetoric involved with "Castro's Cuba" as something "we" can do without. Now, if you think about that carefully, where is the freedom of the people in that?
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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    No. It fractionalizes a community for simply being a community. And it propogates and supports all the malicious rhetoric involved with "Castro's Cuba" as something "we" can do without. Now, if you think about that carefully, where is the freedom of the people in that?

    Huh? I don't understand this. How does the US government stepping aside and dropping the embargo do these things?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    mammasan wrote:
    It will improve slightly, but you are right in stating that it will not make a dramatic change. To lifting the embargo is more of a diplomatic improvment than an economic one.

    I agree. I tend to look at the lifting of the embargo as a moral improvement, but we're pretty much saying the same thing there. Cheers.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Huh? I don't understand this. How does the US government stepping aside and dropping the embargo do these things?

    You lost me. I'm speaking in the present. No "what if's?".
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