Yes, I understand that. But based on the logic of embargo-as-primary-cause-of-misery, how come the embargo's effects on America are not equal to its effects on Cuba? I mean, I can't buy Cuban products just like they can't by mine. Yet how come things are better for me?
The embargo is on Cuba, not the US. The US can trade with the rest of the world. Something Cuba is largely hindered in doing. In your terms, you (the americans) can buy the products elsewhere, while Cuba can't sell their own.
Isn't that pretty obvious?
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Because the U.S is imposing a blockade on Cuba, meaning it has had to be totally self-sufficient for 50 years. The U.S has blocked any country from importing goods into Cuba. A pretty fucked-up situation really.
I really don't want to get into this debate, 'cause from my point of view, is pointless. There is no middle ground about him or his regime. Personally, I don't like dictators, regardless of their political orientation...
I just wanted to stress that Cuba did not have to be self-sufficient. For decades the USSR fully supported Cuba's economy and its operations in other Latin American countries. Self-sufficency, so to speak, only became necessary after the USSR dissolution. By the way, I'm not trying to neglect the impact of the economic embargo.
The embargo is on Cuba, not the US. The US can trade with the rest of the world. Something Cuba is largely hindered in doing. In your terms, you (the americans) can buy the products elsewhere, while Cuba can't sell their own.
Isn't that pretty obvious?
Cuba can and does sell their products to the rest of the world. The Embargo is effectively a two-way street. I can't buy their products. They can't buy mine.
Japan is only 3 times the size of Cuba and 1/16 the size of America, yet they operate at a trade surplus with America. Russia is 4 times the size of America, yet their economy pales in comparison to ours. Land mass, in the context of production and modernization, isn't worth much.
Bolded for emphasis, surplus or not. Cuba isn't doing much trading. Land mass and the ability to use is (and what it offers) is quite important to a country that isn't doing much trading.
And Russia is new to this whole market thing.
To put it another way, if I kick a lion in the face, it's likely to shake it off shortly before tearing me a new one. If I kick my pet cat in the face with the same force, it'll kill it.
Japan is only 3 times the size of Cuba and 1/16 the size of America, yet they operate at a trade surplus with America. Russia is 4 times the size of America, yet their economy pales in comparison to ours. Land mass, in the context of production and modernization, isn't worth much.
Bolded for emphasis, surplus or not. Cuba isn't doing much trading. Land mass and the ability to use is (and what it offers) is quite important to a country that isn't doing much trading.
It's good that they aren't doing much trading, since they have little to trade. Cuba isn't doing much producing, which is kind of a requirement for trade.
That said, Cuba does trade to the tune of negative $6b / year. They trade with Canada. They trade with Japan. They trade with China. They trade with Venezuela. The list goes on. Absent is only America.
And Russia is new to this whole market thing.
Not really. Russia has been operating on the international capitalist market for a very long time.
To put it another way, if I kick a lion in the face, it's likely to shake it off shortly before tearing me a new one. If I kick my pet cat in the face with the same force, it'll kill it.
Hehe...so let me get this straight. If you called my business one day and asked to buy my product and I simply said "no", that would be a "kick in the face"???
Look, I think the embargo should be lifted today. I think it's silly, counterproductive, and immoral. But to suggest that Cuba would be some kind of wonderful economic engine without the embargo is ridiculous.
cuba is free to do business with whomever it wants except the US who castro choose to be enemies with. but like i've said many times before, I want the embargo gone.
Look, I think the embargo should be lifted today. I think it's silly, counterproductive, and immoral. But to suggest that Cuba would be some kind of wonderful economic engine without the embargo is ridiculous.
Show me where I suggested that. I suggested that Cuba would be in better shape, I said nothing about it being wonderful. I was also suggesting why the embargo hurts Cuba more than America, I said nothing about America being Cuba's only problem.
Hehe...so let me get this straight. If you called my business one day and asked to buy my product and I simply said "no", that would be a "kick in the face"???
Depends on the business. Say if I'm in the shipping business and the only gasoline distributor is you and you refuse to sell gasoline to me - yeah, that would be a kick in the face.
They produce the best cigars in the world, I can only imagine the rum is stellar, and with a little capital I can only imagine how awesome the island would be for tourism. I'm not a fan of Castro, but I'd like to be able to do business with Cuba as an American, and to be quite honest if they keep all that tourism money at home and don't allow American intrests to root, that's fine with me too. If we adopted the Fair tax a lot of that money in the Caymans would come home.
With this ridiculous ethanol kick....perhaps the sugar and tobacco lobby in the US will finally succumb to pressure and we will once again do business with Cuba.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
Depends on the business. Say if I'm in the shipping business and the only gasoline distributor is you and you refuse to sell gasoline to me - yeah, that would be a kick in the face.
First, that's a poor analogy. The US is not the only "gasoline distributor", so to speak.
Secondly, if I were the only gasoline distributer, you still wouldn't have a fundamental right to my gas. Simply refusing to sell it to you wouldn't be a "kick in the face".
Show me where I suggested that. I suggested that Cuba would be in better shape, I said nothing about it being wonderful. I was also suggesting why the embargo hurts Cuba more than America, I said nothing about America being Cuba's only problem.
You didn't suggest that. It just seems to be the underlying current in this thread. To hold up Cuban poverty and blame the American embargo seems to suggest that, absent the embargo, those Cubans wouldn't be poor.
Secondly, if I were the only gasoline distributer, you still wouldn't have a fundamental right to my gas. Simply refusing to sell it to you wouldn't be a "kick in the face".
Where did I suggest that I'd have a fundamental right to your gas? All I suggested was that your refusing to sell it to me would hurt my business.
You didn't suggest that. It just seems to be the underlying current in this thread. To hold up Cuban poverty and blame the American embargo seems to suggest that, absent the embargo, those Cubans wouldn't be poor.
You didn't suggest that. It just seems to be the underlying current in this thread. To hold up Cuban poverty and blame the American embargo seems to suggest that, absent the embargo, those Cubans wouldn't be poor.
I'd say that to lift a trade blockade on a country would result in that country becoming weathier. But then, that's just a hunch.
Comments
Isn't that pretty obvious?
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
In response to Cuba's alignment with the Soviet Union during the Cold War
I really don't want to get into this debate, 'cause from my point of view, is pointless. There is no middle ground about him or his regime. Personally, I don't like dictators, regardless of their political orientation...
I just wanted to stress that Cuba did not have to be self-sufficient. For decades the USSR fully supported Cuba's economy and its operations in other Latin American countries. Self-sufficency, so to speak, only became necessary after the USSR dissolution. By the way, I'm not trying to neglect the impact of the economic embargo.
Peace,
Caterina
Cuba can and does sell their products to the rest of the world. The Embargo is effectively a two-way street. I can't buy their products. They can't buy mine.
Here's an olive branch from me to you. Check out these unhappy people:
http://www.canadacuba.ca/
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And Russia is new to this whole market thing.
To put it another way, if I kick a lion in the face, it's likely to shake it off shortly before tearing me a new one. If I kick my pet cat in the face with the same force, it'll kill it.
and its america's fault? or castro's?
Yet, being neighborly might.
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jeez jlew. i hope you're putting me on.
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no, I asked you a question
Did you check the link?
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It's good that they aren't doing much trading, since they have little to trade. Cuba isn't doing much producing, which is kind of a requirement for trade.
That said, Cuba does trade to the tune of negative $6b / year. They trade with Canada. They trade with Japan. They trade with China. They trade with Venezuela. The list goes on. Absent is only America.
Not really. Russia has been operating on the international capitalist market for a very long time.
Hehe...so let me get this straight. If you called my business one day and asked to buy my product and I simply said "no", that would be a "kick in the face"???
Look, I think the embargo should be lifted today. I think it's silly, counterproductive, and immoral. But to suggest that Cuba would be some kind of wonderful economic engine without the embargo is ridiculous.
You think Cuba is blockading itself?
So following that logic, it'd be o.k for Russia to block trade with any country that aligned itself with the U.S during the cold war?
cuba is free to do business with whomever it wants except the US who castro choose to be enemies with. but like i've said many times before, I want the embargo gone.
You don't like this olive branch peace thing. Alright. That's fine. You can't say I didn't try.
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With this ridiculous ethanol kick....perhaps the sugar and tobacco lobby in the US will finally succumb to pressure and we will once again do business with Cuba.
I don't know what you're talking about.
First, that's a poor analogy. The US is not the only "gasoline distributor", so to speak.
Secondly, if I were the only gasoline distributer, you still wouldn't have a fundamental right to my gas. Simply refusing to sell it to you wouldn't be a "kick in the face".
You didn't suggest that. It just seems to be the underlying current in this thread. To hold up Cuban poverty and blame the American embargo seems to suggest that, absent the embargo, those Cubans wouldn't be poor.
lmao. sorry. i screwed up. i thought i was replying to jlew.
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Where did I suggest that I'd have a fundamental right to your gas? All I suggested was that your refusing to sell it to me would hurt my business.
:eek:
They are, in terms of the mechanics of an embargo. Both are precluded from trading from the other.
You suggested it was a "kick in the face".
lol I know right?
I'd say that to lift a trade blockade on a country would result in that country becoming weathier. But then, that's just a hunch.
Yes, they likely would be less poor. They'd still be dirt poor, however.