Any Castro defenders here?

TrauTrau Posts: 188
edited March 2007 in A Moving Train
Just curious.
In the shadow of the light from a black sun
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing

Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • darkcrowdarkcrow Posts: 1,102
    erm... well he has a cool beard lol i dont really have an "educated" standpoint on castro/cuba mainly because i have not read about the issues widely enough. my study has been from the viewpoint of my american history degree.

    what i have read is that it has one of the best health services in the world but a lot of its people still live in poverty.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Trau wrote:
    Just curious.

    Count me in.
  • elmerelmer Posts: 1,683
    Trau wrote:
    Just curious.
    dont cross Fidel my friend.


    I went to cuba 2years back, had a great time. music everywhere, cheap food, beer........while there is poverty to some degree its not on a level with places such as dominican republic.
    there seems to be an abundance of police, like had some old drunk ask for a cigarette on the beach one evening...almost in seconds there were two uniforms leading him away(which aint a bad thing).
    actually saw an old soviet tank by the side of a road, that really is a standard image I had before going.
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    He's a dictator, but a rather nice one. (Not that that says much necessarily, as they are generally pretty un-nice)

    At least he seems to care for his people even if he wants to maintain total control.

    But not really a supporter, no.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    the american government of the time, was all for castro's revolution. it wasn't until they realised they couldn't control him that they turned cold. and then diod evrything they could to undermine him. it is interesting to me that washington sees it as okay to trade with beijing despite china's horrendous human rights record, and yet can't seem to pull their head out of their arse when it comes to cuba.
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  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    I'm not a Castro supporter. I would like to say that the way our media has prtrayed the US/Cuba relationship isn't so black and white as we are good and he is bad.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • UKDaveUKDave Posts: 5,557
    Apparently very high average life span, due to diet control and national health service, some American doctors training there as it's cheaper...
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  • the american government of the time, was all for castro's revolution. it wasn't until they realised they couldn't control him that they turned cold. and then diod evrything they could to undermine him. it is interesting to me that washington sees it as okay to trade with beijing despite china's horrendous human rights record, and yet can't seem to pull their head out of their arse when it comes to cuba.

    What she said.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    the american government of the time, was all for castro's revolution. it wasn't until they realised they couldn't control him that they turned cold. and then diod evrything they could to undermine him. it is interesting to me that washington sees it as okay to trade with beijing despite china's horrendous human rights record, and yet can't seem to pull their head out of their arse when it comes to cuba.

    It wasn't even that they couldn't control him. You are correct in stating that the Eisenhower administration was weary of Batista and welcomed Castro's ousting of him. What starting souring the relationship was when corporations, mainly United Fruit,starting lobbying the government to turn it's back on Castro. Couple this with a strong and vocal Cuban, and very well organized, opposition here in the states and our government quickly folded. Castro until this point had no interest in entering into any type of relationship with the Soviets. He didn't trust them and neither did Camilo Cienfuegos who was Castro's closest commendant, besides his brother Raul. It wasn't until after the US turned hostile towards the Castro regime and started undertaking covert actions against him and his regime did Castro finally cave into to Che's calls to side with the Soviets. At this point he pretty much had no other choice but to side with them considreing that the worlds only other superpower was doing almost everything it couild to depose or kill him.

    I'm no fan of Castro because of what his government has done to the Cuban people and my family as well. There are relatives of mine who I have never met because they died for doing nothing more than voicing there displeasure. I do how ever blame to a limited extent this country as well. He our government not been owned by corporate America and actually had the ability to see past it's own self-serving interests, the relationship between this country and Cuba may have remained on peaceful terms and the atrocities that where carried out by boths governments may have never occurred.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Asking people to defend Castro is about as good as asking an American to defend all the meaningless wars they start and the shit they drop on people. Castro has done some good and some bad. He made sure his country was run without Yankee interests. And that in itself says something. I like hearing the Yanks go on about it and nary any one of them has ever been there. Eat, regurigitate, repeat, until the public falls for it.
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  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Count me in.

    why you would support a man who took freedom away from people for over 50 years. killed and tortured any who opposed him? classy.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    why you would support a man who took freedom away from people for over 50 years. killed and tortured any who opposed him? classy.

    Cubans have suffered more over the last 50 years as a result of the illegal U.S blockade than as a result of anything else.
    And I'm not an expert, but when I see images of happy, smiling Cubans dancing in the streets, drinking rum and soaking up life, I get the unusual feeling that they are more 'free' than most Americans, or British, for that matter.
    I think we need to qualify what we mean by 'free' when referring to Cuba and Cubans.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Cubans have suffered more over the last 50 years as a result of the illegal U.S blockade than as a result of anything else.
    And I'm not an expert, but when I see images of happy, smiling Cubans dancing in the streets, drinking rum and soaking up life, I get the unusual feeling that they are more 'free' than most Americans, or British, for that matter.
    I think we need to qualify what we mean by 'free' when referring to Cuba and Cubans.


    They are not as free as those pictures portray them to be. My family is from Cuba. I still have plenty of family there. They are certainly not as free as we are. You do make a good point though. The embargo has contributed to the misery that the Cubans have to endure and it's high fucking time this government get's head out of it's ass and puts an end to the embargo.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    mammasan wrote:
    They are not as free as those pictures portray them to be. My family is from Cuba. I still have plenty of family there. They are certainly not as free as we are. You do make a good point though. The embargo has contributed to the misery that the Cubans have to endure and it's high fucking time this government get's head out of it's ass and puts an end to the embargo.

    How dya know what pics, or footage I've seen? Have you been spying on me? :confused:;)

    Frankly, anyone who can make music like the Cubans make it seems pretty cool to me. :)
    And combine that with Rum, sun, and bronzed bodies, and that's what I call livin'.
  • How come people aren't complaining about the damage the embargo has done to America?
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    How come people aren't complaining about the damage the embargo has done to America?

    Because it's not the same. American business' have been affected by the embrgo but no where near as severe as the Cuban population.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Cubans have suffered more over the last 50 years as a result of the illegal U.S blockade than as a result of anything else.
    And I'm not an expert, but when I see images of happy, smiling Cubans dancing in the streets, drinking rum and soaking up life, I get the unusual feeling that they are more 'free' than most Americans, or British, for that matter.
    I think we need to qualify what we mean by 'free' when referring to Cuba and Cubans.


    there is a reason why that embargo was put in place. interesting how you want to blame america instead of cuban. america doesnt owe cuban anything, their leader does.
  • mammasan wrote:
    Because it's not the same. American business' have been affected by the embrgo but no where near as severe as the Cuban population.

    Yes, I understand that. But based on the logic of embargo-as-primary-cause-of-misery, how come the embargo's effects on America are not equal to its effects on Cuba? I mean, I can't buy Cuban products just like they can't by mine. Yet how come things are better for me?
  • mammasan wrote:
    It wasn't even that they couldn't control him. You are correct in stating that the Eisenhower administration was weary of Batista and welcomed Castro's ousting of him. What starting souring the relationship was when corporations, mainly United Fruit,starting lobbying the government to turn it's back on Castro. Couple this with a strong and vocal Cuban, and very well organized, opposition here in the states and our government quickly folded. Castro until this point had no interest in entering into any type of relationship with the Soviets. He didn't trust them and neither did Camilo Cienfuegos who was Castro's closest commendant, besides his brother Raul. It wasn't until after the US turned hostile towards the Castro regime and started undertaking covert actions against him and his regime did Castro finally cave into to Che's calls to side with the Soviets. At this point he pretty much had no other choice but to side with them considreing that the worlds only other superpower was doing almost everything it couild to depose or kill him.


    I'm no fan of Castro because of what his government has done to the Cuban people and my family as well. There are relatives of mine who I have never met because they died for doing nothing more than voicing there displeasure. I do how ever blame to a limited extent this country as well. He our government not been owned by corporate America and actually had the ability to see past it's own self-serving interests, the relationship between this country and Cuba may have remained on peaceful terms and the atrocities that where carried out by boths governments may have never occurred.


    mammasan,

    let me just say that you are about as reasonable and objective as any person i have ever encountered. I only wish that most cuban exiles shared your views on this particular matter. I believe that they are the ones responsible for the confusion and misconceptions that the american public have towards Cuba.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    jlew24asu wrote:
    there is a reason why that embargo was put in place. interesting how you want to blame america instead of cuban. america doesnt owe cuban anything, their leader does.

    I think you just look for reasons to hate.

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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,192
    Trau wrote:
    Just curious.
    he must like the cars from the 50's because that is all i ever see in any video footage from there .......
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    I think you just look for reasons to hate.

    and who do I hate?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    there is a reason why that embargo was put in place.

    Please enlighten us as to why the illegal embargo was put in place.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and who do I hate?

    There ya go, still looking...

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  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    Yes, I understand that. But based on the logic of embargo-as-primary-cause-of-misery, how come the embargo's effects on America are not equal to its effects on Cuba? I mean, I can't buy Cuban products just like they can't by mine. Yet how come things are better for me?
    Because America sits as a world power with far reaching influence and just about every resource imaginable right within it's tremendous land mass; and Cuba is smaller than Pennsylvania?
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Cubans have suffered more over the last 50 years as a result of the illegal U.S blockade than as a result of anything else.
    And I'm not an expert, but when I see images of happy, smiling Cubans dancing in the streets, drinking rum and soaking up life, I get the unusual feeling that they are more 'free' than most Americans, or British, for that matter.
    I think we need to qualify what we mean by 'free' when referring to Cuba and Cubans.


    Which is it? Sentence 1 or sentence 2? Are they suffering, or are they happily dancing in the streets?
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    RainDog wrote:
    Because America sits as a world power with far reaching influence and just about every resource imaginable right within it's tremendous land mass; and Cuba is smaller than Pennsylvania?

    Because the U.S is imposing a blockade on Cuba, meaning it has had to be totally self-sufficient for 50 years. The U.S has blocked any country from importing goods into Cuba. A pretty fucked-up situation really.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jeffbr wrote:
    Which is it? Sentence 1 or sentence 2? Are they suffering, or are they happily dancing in the streets?

    Meaning they are poor materially, but wealthy in other ways.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    There ya go, still looking...

    you make no fucking sense, move on
  • RainDog wrote:
    Because America sits as a world power with far reaching influence and just about every resource imaginable right within it's tremendous land mass; and Cuba is smaller than Pennsylvania?

    Japan is only 3 times the size of Cuba and 1/16 the size of America, yet they operate at a trade surplus with America. Russia is 4 times the size of America, yet their economy pales in comparison to ours. Land mass, in the context of production and modernization, isn't worth much.
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