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What do a billion muslims actually think about Bin Laden?

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    CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    jlew24asu wrote:
    thats true. but currently, the children are all being taught to hate america and the west. being brainwashed from birth. that doesnt help the future of peace.

    I agree. Though I wouldn't be surprised if some of the posters here brainwashed their children into thinking Islam is evil and the enemy.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Collin wrote:
    I agree. Though I wouldn't be surprised if some of the posters here brainwashed their children into thinking Islam is evil and the enemy.


    thats a stretch I think. even if its true, no one besides extreme islam is teaching their kids to be suicide bombers.
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    AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    jlew24asu wrote:
    thats true. but currently, the children are all being taught to hate america and the west. being brainwashed from birth. that doesnt help the future of peace.

    Yea, but that's been happening for a long fucking time. The adults you speak of today, were once children being taught the same nonsense.

    Equally, Israelis have been taught similar garbage.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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    CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    jlew24asu wrote:
    thats a stretch I think.

    I disagree, I don't think it's a strech at all/
    even if its true, no one besides extreme islam is teaching their kids to be suicide bombers.

    True, but peace is a two way street.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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    AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    jlew24asu wrote:
    thats a stretch I think. even if its true, no one besides extreme islam is teaching their kids to be suicide bombers.

    I think if Palestine had bombers and fighter jets, they'd be being taught to pilot them. If they had tanks they'd be being taught to pilot tanks. Like Western kids.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yea, but that's been happening for a long fucking time. The adults you speak of today, were once children being taught the same nonsense.

    has it? I really dont know. even to the same extreme.

    Ahnimus wrote:
    Equally, Israelis have been taught similar garbage.

    they are taught garbage im sure, but not to kill all arabs in the name on Yahweh
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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Collin wrote:
    I disagree, I don't think it's a strech at all/


    really? I'm talking about a Madrasah. there is nothing similar to this with any other religions. specifically, Jewish, catholics, or christians. althought I do know there are some extreme christians groups. not on the same size and level as extreme islam.


    Collin wrote:
    True, but peace is a two way street.

    im not jewish so I dont know what they are taught. im sure they are taught that arabs have been an enemy for a long time. maybe they arent. either way, they are never specifically taught to blow themselves up and kill as many innocent arabs as possible. they are taught to use tanks either.
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    AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    jlew24asu wrote:
    they are taught garbage im sure, but not to kill all arabs in the name on Yahweh

    They aren't as distressed.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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    CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    jlew24asu wrote:
    really? I'm talking about a Madrasah. there is nothing similar to this with any other religions. specifically, Jewish, catholics, or christians. althought I do know there are some extreme christians groups. not on the same size and level as extreme islam.

    I'm not talking about a Madrasah, I just talking about people who tell their children that Islam is evil and a religion of hate. They are teaching their children hatred and hatred never helps peace, does it?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Ahnimus wrote:
    They aren't as distressed.


    thats not Israels fault. arabs do not live in a free society. they live under the boot of the koran and whatever religious nut is around.
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    jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Collin wrote:
    I'm not talking about a Madrasah, I just talking about people who tell their children that Islam is evil and a religion of hate. They are teaching their children hatred and hatred never helps peace, does it?


    true. both are bad. but when you teach to kill, thats worse.
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    CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    jlew24asu wrote:
    true. both are bad. but when you teach to kill, thats worse.

    I said it before peace is a two way street and I don't see anyone making an effort towards peace all I see is more hatred and more ignorance.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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    as with all wars/ mass violence, very few people actually want it. if you ask any random person in any country if they want war, they will say no.

    so why do we have war? because Bush's, Cheney's, Bin Laden's, etc want it.
    those undecided, needn't have faith to be free
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    AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    jlew24asu wrote:
    thats not Israels fault. arabs do not live in a free society. they live under the boot of the koran and whatever religious nut is around.

    Not all arabs are muslims. That's a pretty myopic viewpoint, IMO.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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    El_Kabong wrote:
    ya mean like the time the world court condemned us for our attack on nicaragua and how it was affecting the populace so instead of accepting it <ie taking accountability> we pulled out of the world court?

    or the time we shot down an iranian passenger airliner and when vice president bush was asked if he'd apologize to iran for killing all those civillians he said: "I will never apologize for the United States of America — I don't care what the facts are" ?? that was taking responsability? was it taking responsability when they gave the ppl who shot down and killed CIVILLIANS medals???

    no, i don't think so

    The World Court is shit. We're a sovereign nation and they have no power over us. They would condemn us for many things. We were fighting marxism in Nicaragua, but I'm sure you supported the sandanistas. Fuck the World Court and the UN. We look out for our own interests: marxists killed Nicaraguans, not Americans.

    The Iranians tried to mine and amost destroyed one of our ships in the persian gulf. They made a war-like maneuver. You try to make it seem that we pointlessly killed a bunch of civilians for the hell of it. We shot down what we thought we a threatening aircraft. It turned out that it wasn't a warplane. They fucking attacked us first - too bad so sad.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
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    AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    The World Court is shit. We're a sovereign nation and they have no power over us. They would condemn us for many things. We were fighting marxism in Nicaragua, but I'm sure you supported the sandanistas. Fuck the World Court and the UN. We look out for our own interests: marxists killed Nicaraguans, not Americans.

    The Iranians tried to mine and amost destroyed one of our ships in the persian gulf. They made a war-like maneuver. You try to make it seem that we pointlessly killed a bunch of civilians for the hell of it. We shot down what we thought we a threatening aircraft. It turned out that it wasn't a warplane. They fucking attacked us first - too bad so sad.

    Sounds like the Gulf of Tonkin incident. The U.S. deliberately made war-like manuevers to coerce the enemy into attacking them.

    Marxism didn't fight in Nicaragua, Marxism is an ideology and can't fight. Just like judaism and islam can't fight. It's the people that follow those ideologies that fight, wether it's for their interpretation of the ideology or not.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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    The World Court is shit. We're a sovereign nation and they have no power over us. They would condemn us for many things. We were fighting marxism in Nicaragua, but I'm sure you supported the sandanistas. Fuck the World Court and the UN. We look out for our own interests: marxists killed Nicaraguans, not Americans.

    The Iranians tried to mine and amost destroyed one of our ships in the persian gulf. They made a war-like maneuver. You try to make it seem that we pointlessly killed a bunch of civilians for the hell of it. We shot down what we thought we a threatening aircraft. It turned out that it wasn't a warplane. They fucking attacked us first - too bad so sad.

    typical american view. us, and only us. the rest of the world doesn;t matter. we can destroy the planet if we want. we can seek UN sanctions when it suits us, but ignore the UN when it doesn't.

    based on your view, every country is sovreign, so they can all do what they want. seems logical.....(sarcasm, in case you couldn;t tell)
    those undecided, needn't have faith to be free
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    bryanfury wrote:
    as with all wars/ mass violence, very few people actually want it. if you ask any random person in any country if they want war, they will say no.

    so why do we have war? because Bush's, Cheney's, Bin Laden's, etc want it.

    That's an interesting* perspective.

    bizarre*
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
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    bryanfury wrote:
    typical american view. us, and only us. the rest of the world doesn;t matter. we can destroy the planet if we want. we can seek UN sanctions when it suits us, but ignore the UN when it doesn't.

    based on your view, every country is sovreign, so they can all do what they want. seems logical.....(sarcasm, in case you couldn;t tell)

    Every country can and should do what they want. Most often, peace is the result of each country doing what's best for their people.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
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    That's an interesting* perspective.

    bizarre*

    how is that bizarre. so you disagree that every person you would ask would say they do not want war?

    do you disagree that bin laden wants war? or Cheney (considering he has pushed for war in Iraq since '98). what do you think PNAC is?
    those undecided, needn't have faith to be free
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    Every country can and should do what they want. Most often, peace is the result of each country doing what's best for their people.

    that has to be one of the most ridiculous things i've ever heard. at least now after reading this, i can comfortably ignore everything else you have to say.
    those undecided, needn't have faith to be free
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    El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    The World Court is shit. We're a sovereign nation and they have no power over us. They would condemn us for many things. We were fighting marxism in Nicaragua, but I'm sure you supported the sandanistas. Fuck the World Court and the UN. We look out for our own interests: marxists killed Nicaraguans, not Americans.


    why is the world court shit? b/c they want to hold us accountable for illegal attacks against a soverign nation??

    so...it was the marxists in nicaragua who mined their harbors w/ our mines....? that doesn't make a whole lotta sense... i guess they hijacked our bombers and dropped the bombs themselves...?

    On June 27, 1986, the Court found that:

    'The United States of America, by training, arming, equipping, financing and supplying the Contra forces or otherwise encouraging, supporting and aiding military and paramilitary activities in and against Nicaragua, has acted, against the Republic of Nicaragua, in breach of its obligation under customary international law not to intervene in the affairs of another State.'

    that's not our fault???

    'The United States of America, by certain attacks on Nicaraguan territory in 1983-1984, namely attacks on Puerto Sandino on September 13 and October 14 1983, an attack on Corinto on October 10 1983; an attack on Potosi Naval Base on January 4 and 5 1984, an attack on San Juan del Sur on March 7 1984; attacks on patrol boats at Puerto Sandino on March 28 and 30 1984; and an attack on San Juan del Norte on April 9, 1984; and further by those acts of intervention referred to [above] which involve the use of force, has acted, against the Republic of Nicaragua, in breach of its obligation under customary international law not to use force against another State.'

    hmmm...that says WE attacked, not the marxists attacked themselves! or our bombs were magic and didn't kill anyone, which is it?

    'The United States of America, by directing or authorizing over Rights of Nicaraguan territory, and by the acts imputable to the United States referred to [above], has acted, against the Republic of Nicaragua, in breach of its obligation under customary international law not to violate the sovereignty of another State.'

    again, not our fault, i guess??

    'By laying mines in the internal or territorial waters of the Republic of Nicaragua during the first months of 1984, the United States of America has acted, against the Republic of Nicaragua, in breach of its obligations under customary international law not to use force against another State, not to intervene in its affairs, not to violate its sovereignty and not to interrupt peaceful maritime commerce.'

    so we attacked their economy...which attacked EVERYONE...oh wait, i bet it was those pesky marxists framing us for it, eh??

    'The United States of America, by the attacks on Nicaraguan territory referred to [above], and by declaring a general embargo on trade with Nicaragua on May 1, 1985, has acted in breach of its obligations under Article XIX of the Treaty of Friendship, Commerce and Navigation between the Parties signed at Managua on January 21, 1956.'

    i bet the marxists just said we did that, it never happened!

    'The United States of America, by producing in 1983 a manual entitled 'Operaciones sicológicas en guerra de guerrillas' ("Psychological Operations in Guerrilla Warfare")[12], and disseminating it to Contra forces, has encouraged the commission by them of acts contrary to general principles of humanitarian law'

    and this...?
    The Iranians tried to mine and amost destroyed one of our ships in the persian gulf. They made a war-like maneuver. You try to make it seem that we pointlessly killed a bunch of civilians for the hell of it. We shot down what we thought we a threatening aircraft. It turned out that it wasn't a warplane. They fucking attacked us first - too bad so sad.

    first, what you say does not excuse not taking accoutnability for what we did...it is justifying it. even if it was just a mistake should we not say sorry for killing all those innocent ppl? you agree w/ giving ppl medals for killing them??

    also interesting is the lies of the official report, like:
    The unclassified version of a Congressional report of a U.S. Navy investigation headed by Admiral William Fogarty did not accurately show the location of the USS Vincennes some 2 NM (4 km) inside Iranian territorial waters.

    Three years after the incident, Admiral William J. Crowe admitted on American television show Nightline that the Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters when it launched the missiles.[8] This contradicted earlier Navy claims.

    When questioned by BBC journalists in a 2002 documentary, the U.S. government stated in a written answer that they believed the incident may have been caused by a simultaneous psychological condition amongst the 18 bridge crew of the Vincennes called 'scenario fulfillment' which is said to occur when persons are under pressure. In such a situation, the men will carry out a training scenario, believing it to be reality whilst ignoring sensory information that contradicts the scenario - in the case of this incident, the scenario was an attack by a lone military aircraft. This hypothesis, if true, could explain why the records of the Vincennes' instruments never indicated a craft resembling an F-14 being detected, whilst a civilian IFF signal was detected.

    and didn't we attack their oil platforms in 87 and 88?

    and this report is also interesting:
    The Fogarty report concluded, "The data from USS Vincennes tapes, information from USS Sides and reliable intelligence information, corroborate the fact that [Iran Air Flight 655] was on a normal commercial air flight plan profile, in the assigned airway, squawking Mode III 6760, on a continuous ascent in altitude from takeoff at Bandar Abbas to shoot-down." The fault in the USS Vincennes lying directly in the airplane’s pathway is Captain Rogers'.

    so, again, justifications aside, how were we accountable for it? by refusing to say sorry b/c we thought we were right? by giving out medals for shooting it down?? if i shoot your mom b/c i think she's a serial killer can i say 'hey, man, i thought she was someone else, too bad for you!, i'm not gonna apologize for it'? nope, i'm willing to bet you wouldn't describe that reaction as accountability

    so, can you name something we were held accountable for since everything is justifiable to you?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
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    Every country can and should do what they want. Most often, peace is the result of each country doing what's best for their people.

    And since when has the US ever been about that? When things aren't going our way we simply assassinate, invade and install new governments that will do as we tell them to. We don't give a shit about democracy and never have....because the minute another country elects leaders who won't put up with our shit we make sure that they won't be there long. There's a long list with trails of blood that leads right back to us...El Salvador, Chile, Haiti, Nicaragua, Guatamala, Panama.... Don't give me this shit line about communism. Why should other countries not be free to have whatever style government they choose? You've just been brainwashed very early on to see commies as evil guys out to kill us. It's really pathetic.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
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    El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Every country can and should do what they want. Most often, peace is the result of each country doing what's best for their people.

    so then, you fully support iran having nukes, right?

    hitler should've been able to keep gassing jews, right?

    iraq should've been able to do whatever it wanted, including having wmd's, right?

    and if every country should be able to do what it wants why do you justify the overthrow of sovereign nations just b/c their elected leaders won't do what WE want?? those marxists in nicaragua should've been able to do what they wanted, right?

    or by 'every country' do you really mean the US?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
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    El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jlew24asu wrote:
    they are taught garbage im sure, but not to kill all arabs in the name on Yahweh


    <cough> http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=211301 <cough>
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
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    miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    And since when has the US ever been about that? When things aren't going our way we simply assassinate, invade and install new governments that will do as we tell them to. We don't give a shit about democracy and never have....because the minute another country elects leaders who won't put up with our shit we make sure that they won't be there long. There's a long list with trails of blood that leads right back to us...El Salvador, Chile, Haiti, Nicaragua, Guatamala, Panama.... Don't give me this shit line about communism. Why should other countries not be free to have whatever style government they choose? You've just been brainwashed very early on to see commies as evil guys out to kill us. It's really pathetic.

    And your brainwashed by liberalism to never see all the good that america has done i nthe world.

    We are the greatest country that has ever existed; we dont need some world court (lol) to tell us how to act. We love freedom so much that we fight and die so other people can have it.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
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    AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    miller8966 wrote:
    And your brainwashed by liberalism to never see all the good that america has done i nthe world.

    We are the greatest country that has ever existed; we dont need some world court (lol) to tell us how to act. We love freedom so much that we fight and die so other people can have it.

    America blows erect goats. That's how it got so much power. :p
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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    miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    Ahnimus wrote:
    America blows erect goats. That's how it got so much power. :p

    lol well at least we are better than the italians...lol but thats not saying much.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
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    hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    miller8966 wrote:
    And your brainwashed by liberalism to never see all the good that america has done i nthe world.

    We are the greatest country that has ever existed; we dont need some world court (lol) to tell us how to act. We love freedom so much that we fight and die so other people can have it.
    So educate us. List all these great things.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
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    miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    hippiemom wrote:
    So educate us. List all these great things.


    So numerous to list..thats like asking me to pick which new york met is my favorite.

    But here's one.

    Pearl Jam is a band from the state of ____(A)____ which is located in ____(B)____

    A. Seattle

    B. AMERICA!
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
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