I have a simple but serious question that I would like a female point of view on. Why not just put the baby up for adoption instead of having an abortion?
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
I have a simple but serious question that I would like a female point of view on. Why not just put the baby up for adoption instead of having an abortion?
Because it's a year out of your life, because pregnancy and childbirth carry all sorts of risks ... those are the first things that come to my mind. Obviously, every woman who has ever had an abortion has her own reasons.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Because it's a year out of your life, because pregnancy and childbirth carry all sorts of risks ... those are the first things that come to my mind. Obviously, every woman who has ever had an abortion has her own reasons.
Thanks.
I have just always been curious as to why you don't hear this mentioned more. It just seems like such an obvious alternative.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
I don't understand the people here who keep asserting that an abortion is just a surgical procedure. The implication seems to be that if it wasn't for the pro-life camp campaigning to make women feel guilty about having an abortion they wouldn't have a problem with it.
I firmly believe that I have no right to tell a woman whether or not she can have an abortion (unless the child was mine, then I'd like a say in the matter), so I don't ever want to see abortions banned. But even as a male I can appreciate how terribly traumatic it must be to go through. For any normal human being, ending another human life is still a big deal. How can anyone really see it as just another form of surgery?
You may be pro-choice, but that doesn't mean that you have to be blind to the reality that abortion is a terrible thing to go through.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I don't understand the people here who keep asserting that an abortion is just a surgical procedure. The implication seems to be that if it wasn't for the pro-life camp campaigning to make women feel guilty about having an abortion they wouldn't have a problem with it.
I firmly believe that I have no right to tell a woman whether or not she can have an abortion (unless the child was mine, then I'd like a say in the matter), so I don't ever want to see abortions banned. But even as a male I can appreciate how terribly traumatic it must be to go through. For any normal human being, ending another human life is still a big deal. How can anyone really see it as just another form of surgery?
You may be pro-choice, but that doesn't mean that you have to be blind to the reality that abortion is a terrible thing to go through.
An unwanted pregnancy is a horrible thing to go through. No matter how you choose to deal with it (abortion, adoption, keeping the baby), there are going to be both positives and negatives. Each woman has to weigh the positives and negatives for her situation and make her decision accordingly. For a woman who believes that what she's carrying is an organism with the potential to become a person (as opposed to someone who belives it's a full-fledged person from the moment of conception), it may not be all that traumatic. It wasn't the worst surgery I've ever had, I can tell you that much.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
An unwanted pregnancy is a horrible thing to go through. No matter how you choose to deal with it (abortion, adoption, keeping the baby), there are going to be both positives and negatives. Each woman has to weigh the positives and negatives for her situation and make her decision accordingly. For a woman who believes that what she's carrying is an organism with the potential to become a person (as opposed to someone who belives it's a full-fledged person from the moment of conception), it may not be all that traumatic. It wasn't the worst surgery I've ever had, I can tell you that much.
Ok, but surely it wasn't a walk in the park either. My point was just that some of the pro-choice people seem to consider it such an inconsequential thing. I don't know. I've never been close to anyone thats had an abortion, so I'm not really qualified to discuss how it feels to have one, but I just imagine that it can't be easy.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Ok, but surely it wasn't a walk in the park either. My point was just that some of the pro-choice people seem to consider it such an inconsequential thing. I don't know. I've never been close to anyone thats had an abortion, so I'm not really qualified to discuss how it feels to have one, but I just imagine that it can't be easy.
No, of course it isn't, but most surgeries aren't easy, and giving a baby up for adoption or attempting to care for a child you're not prepared for can't be easy either. I don't think anyone tries to pretend it's as simple as going for a manicure. What we're saying ... at least what I'm saying ... is that given the range of options for dealing with an unwanted pregnancy, it's certainly not always the worst or most difficult one.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
No, of course it isn't, but most surgeries aren't easy, and giving a baby up for adoption or attempting to care for a child you're not prepared for can't be easy either. I don't think anyone tries to pretend it's as simple as going for a manicure. What we're saying ... at least what I'm saying ... is that given the range of options for dealing with an unwanted pregnancy, it's certainly not always the worst or most difficult one.
I agree with you. Its just that the tone of a few of the posts that I've seen on these boards in the past seems to suggest that some people are so eager to fight for a woman's right to choose that they're happy to gloss over the emotional and physical realities of the procedure. Maybe it really is less traumatic than I imagine it would be. But surely it wasn't an easy decision for you to make?
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I agree with you. Its just that the tone of a few of the posts that I've seen on these boards in the past seems to suggest that some people are so eager to fight for a woman's right to choose that they're happy to gloss over the emotional and physical realities of the procedure. Maybe it really is less traumatic than I imagine it would be. But surely it wasn't an easy decision for you to make?
Actually, in my case it was an easy decision, but there were extenuating circumstances. For most women it's not so cut and dried and I'm sure that it can be an agonizing decision for some.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Women tend to be pretty broken up from having abortions. Dr. Lillie Epps visited my campus recently. She had 2 abortions and has offered counselling to many women who have had abortions. She is now pro-life, but she has said that women almost always feel like they've had a great loss. They feel bereaved.
When I had my wisdom teeth taken out (surgical procedure), I didn't feel bereaved. I didn't feel bad at all about the procedure. Why? Because a living, growing organism wasn't ripped from my body and tossed in a zip-loc bag.
Abortion cannot be simply understood as a surgical procedure. For the women that have abortions, it is most certainly more than that.
I don't really have stats on the 90%, but I heard it from a friend. It could be completely bogus, but I don't think that's the point. I think if a woman had to see an abortion before she did it, then she wouldn't want to do it.
"In a study of post-abortion patients only 8 weeks after their abortion, researchers found that 44% complained of nervous disorders, 36% had experienced sleep disturbances, 31% had regrets about their decision, and 11% had been prescribed psychotropic medicine by their family doctor. (2) A 5 year retrospective study in two Canadian provinces found significantly greater use of medical and psychiatric services among aborted women. Most significant was the finding that 25% of aborted women made visits to psychiatrists as compared to 3% of the control group. (3) Women who have had abortions are significantly more likely than others to subsequently require admission to a psychiatric hospital. At especially high risk are teenagers, separated or divorced women, and women with a history of more than one abortion. (4) "
If one looks at the sources of this information, one might note that all such information is from 1979, or 1980 or some other early stage of the game. Why would that be? I found this article explains very much. http://afterabortion.com/pmdd.html
"Yet with Post Abortion Stress Syndrome, it's very different. If a woman suffers from PASS after an abortion, the concern for her actual health problem disappears, and she becomes a pawn in the rhetoric of the abortion war. She gets no official treatment or support for her health problem. She gets told what she is experiencing does not exist, or 'only happens to women with previous psychological problems'. (As if having a previous psychological problem would suddenly mean that you wouldn't need treatment, support or help for your new problem!?)
The prochoice majority says PASS 'does not exist', and that anti-abortionists are using it to try and scare women away from abortion, and to try to influence lawmakers that abortion is dangerous. The prolifers agree that PASS exists, but they use it (as the prochoicers fear) as a way to discourage abortion, and as a way to help revoke abortion rights. The woman who is suffering is left alone, as the two sides argue, and the medical community stays out of it.
The medical community does not acknowledge PASS as real, because they don't have enough scientific information from research. Where does the money to do research come from? Grants from pharmaceutical companies. The drug companies that fund medical research that allows a disorder to be diagnosed and 'medically accepted' will not go anywhere near research for PASS. Why? Because they don't want to touch the political suicide that anything related to abortion is. RU-486 is being manufactured in China, because no American drug company even considered making it.
There is such an uproar over anything related to abortion, that drug companies don't want to fund any research into anything abortion related. Why jeopardize the profitability of all their base drugs, by looking into something controversial, that may bring them protests and boycotts from both sides of the abortion war, regardless of how their research turns out?
So without research dollars to fund the studies, the medical community must keep to it's current theory, that PASS 'does not exist'. Numerous medical illnesses never existed until companies thought they might be able to create a drug to treat them, and therefore make a profit. Once enough money was spent on research for them, the diseases became 'real', and were accepted and promoted as such. PMDD and PPD were two such illnesses. As in the past were schizophrenia, manic depression, high blood pressure and AIDS. But when these illnesses were not 'recognized' by the medical community, and did not have an official name or recommended treatment from the medical community yet, did that mean these diseases did not exist? Does that mean no one suffered, before an official name, treatment and official diagnosis was announced? Of course not".
The above information (second link) is from a site that is politically neutral pertaining to abortion. The site is dedicated to picking up the slack from the gaping holes in the medical health system regarding offering help and support for women post abortion who have nowhere else to turn for support and healing.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Its just that the tone of a few of the posts that I've seen on these boards in the past seems to suggest that some people are so eager to fight for a woman's right to choose that they're happy to gloss over the emotional and physical realities of the procedure. Maybe it really is less traumatic than I imagine it would be.
According to the message boards on "afterabortion.com" abortion is very traumatic for many women. Granted, there are those for whom it is not traumatic. And yet that cannot minimize the immense pain some of these women and men are feeling post abortion. Understandably, their "real" message board is blocked from those merely seeking information, but they have a guest board. These women are naming, memorializing and mourning their "babies" that have been aborted. Some post the baby's name, with a poem, and words like "I miss you, my baby".
"This procedure has been heartbreaking for me. I never expected so many tears and so much grief! I feel empty inside."
"Hi, I am a 30 year old mother of 3. When I found this site and read around a bit, it felt right. My abortion was in 1991, I was obviously very young at 15. I quickly went back to life as normal. It was not until the birth of my second son, that it pushed it's way to the surface. I have been to hell and back again over the past 5 years. I know I suffer from Pass.
I am an inlightend Christian, who feels very strongly that the only way I Can heal is through the grace and forgiveness of God. I have spent the last 5 years of my life full of shame, regret, and self hatered. All I have known to do is punish myself. It has been hard for to allow myself forgiveness, because I don't feel I deserve it, after what I did to my baby. It has only been very recently, that I came to the conclusion, my self hatered and punishment has served no purpose. Other then to prevent me from being totally available to my children and husband. I have to heal because I want to give them all of me, not a broken half. I know I cannot move forward with any purpose, without first healing what is behind me. I believe the only one who can open me up to even being willing to accept forgiveness and forgive myself is God. I respect those who do not share my faith, but at the same time, I need to be able to include it in my healing. Is this the right place for me to be able to do so?"
"I had an abortion a week yesterday at almost 6 weeks gestation. it was an aweful experience. I suffered terrible pain after and needed to be sedated. the Antibiotics they give you as a precaution, had terrible side effects on me, which prevented me from a quick recover. the Dr said to stop taking them after the 2nd day. A week later i have not bleed heavy, but have had brown discharge when going to the loo, but not filling a pad."
"My wife had a abortion about a month ago. Since then, even though I haven't been feeling the greatest, I've tried to hide my feelings.
I've thought to myself:
- it was the right thing to do;
- we still have other children'
- etc...
Although I've been lying to myself. I feel so unworthy, and like a ******. I just hope God can forgive us for this. I have so much regret for it, but I'm trying to be strong for the both of us because I have to work. I'm a bus driver, and I can't afford an accident, or time off.
These feelings just won't go away!"
I definitely understand those who are trying to neutralize the stigma and emotional drama surrounding abortion, in order to provide straightforward unbiased guidance and information. This is a subject that is horribly abused by those with agendas that are not about the woman in question. At the same time, removing information regarding potential trauma can be deceiving and contribute to further problems of lack of information.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I've heard that abortion hurts women psychologically and physically from the women themselves. From the horse's mouth, so to speak. Cohen has interviewed these women?
They don't feel bad because society disdains abortion. They feel bad because what was living is now dead. What depended on them in order to live no longer lives because they gave it up.
Women have a very instinctual bond with the fetus.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
I've heard that abortion hurts women psychologically and physically from the women themselves. From the horse's mouth, so to speak. Cohen has interviewed these women?
They don't feel bad because society disdains abortion. They feel bad because what was living is now dead. What depended on them in order to live no longer lives because they gave it up.
Women have a very instinctual bond with the fetus.
Well now you've heard from one who doesn't feel psychologically or physically hurt.
I'm not denying that some women do feel bad, I'm sure they do, but I know for an absolute fact that not ALL do. Do you suppose that giving a child up for adoption causes no physical or psychological harm? That trying to raise a child that you didn't want and aren't prepared for causes no harm?
As I said before, there are no real good options when dealing with an unwanted pregnancy. All have the potential to cause harm. Each woman needs to weigh the pros and cons and do what will be best for her in her own unique situation.
And please, stop telling me about the nature of women.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
so far in this particular abortion thread, i have read arguments in favor of the practice stating:
1. Life is hard.
2. Humans are of no higher ontological status than lizards or birds.
Fucking insane!
As an aside, i also find it funny how some here support a "pro-choice" stance, yet swear that there is no such thing as free-will (choice)! If you do not believe humans actually make choices, how can you be "PRO-choice"? Funny stuff.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Well now you've heard from one who doesn't feel psychologically or physically hurt.
I'm not denying that some women do feel bad, I'm sure they do, but I know for an absolute fact that not ALL do. Do you suppose that giving a child up for adoption causes no physical or psychological harm? That trying to raise a child that you didn't want and aren't prepared for causes no harm?
As I said before, there are no real good options when dealing with an unwanted pregnancy. All have the potential to cause harm. Each woman needs to weigh the pros and cons and do what will be best for her in her own unique situation.
And please, stop telling me about the nature of women.
All I know about women I've heard from women.
It's just too bad abortion happens at all.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
And all I know about women is what I've heard from women, combined with actually being a woman, so it's a little ridiculous for a man to tell me what women are like. And it's beyond ridiculous for a man to tell me how a pregnant woman feels, since pregnancy is not fully comprehensible to someone who has never been pregnant.
And I agree, it is a shame that it happens at all.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
And all I know about women is what I've heard from women, combined with actually being a woman, so it's a little ridiculous for a man to tell me what women are like. And it's beyond ridiculous for a man to tell me how a pregnant woman feels, since pregnancy is not fully comprehensible to someone who has never been pregnant.
And I agree, it is a shame that it happens at all.
I would imagine being pregnant is like carrying around a big bowling ball 24/7 for 9 months. Some sympathy classes have men do just that.
I don't need to imagine this, giving birth is similar to passing stones. Learned that from a nurse that has done both. Except she said passing the stones was far more painful.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I would imagine being pregnant is like carrying around a big bowling ball 24/7 for 9 months. Some sympathy classes have men do just that.
I don't need to imagine this, giving birth is similar to passing stones. Learned that from a nurse that has done both. Except she said passing the stones was far more painful.
The bowling ball is just one small part of it. The pain of birth is another small part. You're just going to have to trust me when I say that it's one of those things that can't be fully understood unless you've experienced it. I'll take that statement back if a mom shows up here and says that her pregnancy was exactly what she imagined it would be like, but I don't think that's going to happen. I have never heard anyone say that. Certain aspects of it may be comparable to other things, but the experience as a whole is like nothing else.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
The bowling ball is just one small part of it. The pain of birth is another small part. You're just going to have to trust me when I say that it's one of those things that can't be fully understood unless you've experienced it. I'll take that statement back if a mom shows up here and says that her pregnancy was exactly what she imagined it would be like, but I don't think that's going to happen. I have never heard anyone say that. Certain aspects of it may be comparable to other things, but the experience as a whole is like nothing else.
Well, then I wouldn't except anyone to understand you, if you simply assume they can't.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Well, then I wouldn't except anyone to understand you, if you simply assume they can't.
Additionally, when you are pregnant and you are bitchy and untrusting. Don't expect to understand what your husband is going through.
Men don't react very well, psycho-physiologically to that situation. In a general sense.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Additionally, when you are pregnant and you are bitchy and untrusting. Don't expect to understand what your husband is going through.
Men don't react very well, psycho-physiologically to that situation. In a general sense.
Heehee I won't argue with that! Well, maybe the "untrusting" part, I'm not sure where that comes from, but the bitchy part was definitely real. You'd be bitchy too if you had to haul a bowling ball around 24-7!
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Heehee I won't argue with that! Well, maybe the "untrusting" part, I'm not sure where that comes from, but the bitchy part was definitely real. You'd be bitchy too if you had to haul a bowling ball around 24-7!
I know I would, and I would probably take it out on my husband, rather than my friends or random aquantances.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I was talking to my ex-gf a few weeks ago, and she is about 7 months pregnant. I was saying some really targetted statments, like really digging into her personality and she seemed to take it very well. She admitted to me that she has learned a lot about herself. But, I can guarantee when she's alone with her husband, she's not so nice. :cool:
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I know I would, and I would probably take it out on my husband, rather than my friends or random aquantances.
One of my best friends was pregnant the same time as me ... both times, 8 years apart, what are the odds? ... so we took it out on each other. Probably saved my marriage, lol.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
One of my best friends was pregnant the same time as me ... both times, 8 years apart, what are the odds? ... so we took it out on each other. Probably saved my marriage, lol.
That's a good idea. Then you and your friend can stay in one house and your husbands in the other.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I was talking to my ex-gf a few weeks ago, and she is about 7 months pregnant. I was saying some really targetted statments, like really digging into her personality and she seemed to take it very well. She admitted to me that she has learned a lot about herself. But, I can guarantee when she's alone with her husband, she's not so nice. :cool:
Not everyone gets bitchy. My step-sister was on cloud nine the entire time, with both of her kids. Her husband said he wishes she could be pregnant forever because she was so much nicer, but they can't afford that many kids.
Me, I was a bitch on wheels. I stayed away from people as much as I could so that I'd have some friends left when it was all over.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Not everyone gets bitchy. My step-sister was on cloud nine the entire time, with both of her kids. Her husband said he wishes she could be pregnant forever because she was so much nicer, but they can't afford that many kids.
Me, I was a bitch on wheels. I stayed away from people as much as I could so that I'd have some friends left when it was all over.
Maybe your right, my ex-gf is naturally a bitchy person, maybe all she needed was to get knocked up. She swore to me she would have an abortion if she ever got pregnant. Apparently she was wrong.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
Thanks.
I have just always been curious as to why you don't hear this mentioned more. It just seems like such an obvious alternative.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
Come on. Nobody really believes that do they?
I don't understand the people here who keep asserting that an abortion is just a surgical procedure. The implication seems to be that if it wasn't for the pro-life camp campaigning to make women feel guilty about having an abortion they wouldn't have a problem with it.
I firmly believe that I have no right to tell a woman whether or not she can have an abortion (unless the child was mine, then I'd like a say in the matter), so I don't ever want to see abortions banned. But even as a male I can appreciate how terribly traumatic it must be to go through. For any normal human being, ending another human life is still a big deal. How can anyone really see it as just another form of surgery?
You may be pro-choice, but that doesn't mean that you have to be blind to the reality that abortion is a terrible thing to go through.
-C Addison
Ok, but surely it wasn't a walk in the park either. My point was just that some of the pro-choice people seem to consider it such an inconsequential thing. I don't know. I've never been close to anyone thats had an abortion, so I'm not really qualified to discuss how it feels to have one, but I just imagine that it can't be easy.
-C Addison
I agree with you. Its just that the tone of a few of the posts that I've seen on these boards in the past seems to suggest that some people are so eager to fight for a woman's right to choose that they're happy to gloss over the emotional and physical realities of the procedure. Maybe it really is less traumatic than I imagine it would be. But surely it wasn't an easy decision for you to make?
-C Addison
"In a study of post-abortion patients only 8 weeks after their abortion, researchers found that 44% complained of nervous disorders, 36% had experienced sleep disturbances, 31% had regrets about their decision, and 11% had been prescribed psychotropic medicine by their family doctor. (2) A 5 year retrospective study in two Canadian provinces found significantly greater use of medical and psychiatric services among aborted women. Most significant was the finding that 25% of aborted women made visits to psychiatrists as compared to 3% of the control group. (3) Women who have had abortions are significantly more likely than others to subsequently require admission to a psychiatric hospital. At especially high risk are teenagers, separated or divorced women, and women with a history of more than one abortion. (4) "
If one looks at the sources of this information, one might note that all such information is from 1979, or 1980 or some other early stage of the game. Why would that be? I found this article explains very much. http://afterabortion.com/pmdd.html
"Yet with Post Abortion Stress Syndrome, it's very different. If a woman suffers from PASS after an abortion, the concern for her actual health problem disappears, and she becomes a pawn in the rhetoric of the abortion war. She gets no official treatment or support for her health problem. She gets told what she is experiencing does not exist, or 'only happens to women with previous psychological problems'. (As if having a previous psychological problem would suddenly mean that you wouldn't need treatment, support or help for your new problem!?)
The prochoice majority says PASS 'does not exist', and that anti-abortionists are using it to try and scare women away from abortion, and to try to influence lawmakers that abortion is dangerous. The prolifers agree that PASS exists, but they use it (as the prochoicers fear) as a way to discourage abortion, and as a way to help revoke abortion rights. The woman who is suffering is left alone, as the two sides argue, and the medical community stays out of it.
The medical community does not acknowledge PASS as real, because they don't have enough scientific information from research. Where does the money to do research come from? Grants from pharmaceutical companies. The drug companies that fund medical research that allows a disorder to be diagnosed and 'medically accepted' will not go anywhere near research for PASS. Why? Because they don't want to touch the political suicide that anything related to abortion is. RU-486 is being manufactured in China, because no American drug company even considered making it.
There is such an uproar over anything related to abortion, that drug companies don't want to fund any research into anything abortion related. Why jeopardize the profitability of all their base drugs, by looking into something controversial, that may bring them protests and boycotts from both sides of the abortion war, regardless of how their research turns out?
So without research dollars to fund the studies, the medical community must keep to it's current theory, that PASS 'does not exist'. Numerous medical illnesses never existed until companies thought they might be able to create a drug to treat them, and therefore make a profit. Once enough money was spent on research for them, the diseases became 'real', and were accepted and promoted as such. PMDD and PPD were two such illnesses. As in the past were schizophrenia, manic depression, high blood pressure and AIDS. But when these illnesses were not 'recognized' by the medical community, and did not have an official name or recommended treatment from the medical community yet, did that mean these diseases did not exist? Does that mean no one suffered, before an official name, treatment and official diagnosis was announced? Of course not".
The above information (second link) is from a site that is politically neutral pertaining to abortion. The site is dedicated to picking up the slack from the gaping holes in the medical health system regarding offering help and support for women post abortion who have nowhere else to turn for support and healing.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"This procedure has been heartbreaking for me. I never expected so many tears and so much grief! I feel empty inside."
"Hi, I am a 30 year old mother of 3. When I found this site and read around a bit, it felt right. My abortion was in 1991, I was obviously very young at 15. I quickly went back to life as normal. It was not until the birth of my second son, that it pushed it's way to the surface. I have been to hell and back again over the past 5 years. I know I suffer from Pass.
I am an inlightend Christian, who feels very strongly that the only way I Can heal is through the grace and forgiveness of God. I have spent the last 5 years of my life full of shame, regret, and self hatered. All I have known to do is punish myself. It has been hard for to allow myself forgiveness, because I don't feel I deserve it, after what I did to my baby. It has only been very recently, that I came to the conclusion, my self hatered and punishment has served no purpose. Other then to prevent me from being totally available to my children and husband. I have to heal because I want to give them all of me, not a broken half. I know I cannot move forward with any purpose, without first healing what is behind me. I believe the only one who can open me up to even being willing to accept forgiveness and forgive myself is God. I respect those who do not share my faith, but at the same time, I need to be able to include it in my healing. Is this the right place for me to be able to do so?"
"I had an abortion a week yesterday at almost 6 weeks gestation. it was an aweful experience. I suffered terrible pain after and needed to be sedated. the Antibiotics they give you as a precaution, had terrible side effects on me, which prevented me from a quick recover. the Dr said to stop taking them after the 2nd day. A week later i have not bleed heavy, but have had brown discharge when going to the loo, but not filling a pad."
"My wife had a abortion about a month ago. Since then, even though I haven't been feeling the greatest, I've tried to hide my feelings.
I've thought to myself:
- it was the right thing to do;
- we still have other children'
- etc...
Although I've been lying to myself. I feel so unworthy, and like a ******. I just hope God can forgive us for this. I have so much regret for it, but I'm trying to be strong for the both of us because I have to work. I'm a bus driver, and I can't afford an accident, or time off.
These feelings just won't go away!"
I definitely understand those who are trying to neutralize the stigma and emotional drama surrounding abortion, in order to provide straightforward unbiased guidance and information. This is a subject that is horribly abused by those with agendas that are not about the woman in question. At the same time, removing information regarding potential trauma can be deceiving and contribute to further problems of lack of information.
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Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I've heard that abortion hurts women psychologically and physically from the women themselves. From the horse's mouth, so to speak. Cohen has interviewed these women?
They don't feel bad because society disdains abortion. They feel bad because what was living is now dead. What depended on them in order to live no longer lives because they gave it up.
Women have a very instinctual bond with the fetus.
-Enoch Powell
I'm not denying that some women do feel bad, I'm sure they do, but I know for an absolute fact that not ALL do. Do you suppose that giving a child up for adoption causes no physical or psychological harm? That trying to raise a child that you didn't want and aren't prepared for causes no harm?
As I said before, there are no real good options when dealing with an unwanted pregnancy. All have the potential to cause harm. Each woman needs to weigh the pros and cons and do what will be best for her in her own unique situation.
And please, stop telling me about the nature of women.
1. Life is hard.
2. Humans are of no higher ontological status than lizards or birds.
Fucking insane!
As an aside, i also find it funny how some here support a "pro-choice" stance, yet swear that there is no such thing as free-will (choice)! If you do not believe humans actually make choices, how can you be "PRO-choice"? Funny stuff.
3. Some people are less intelligent than others.
ROTFL!
All I know about women I've heard from women.
It's just too bad abortion happens at all.
-Enoch Powell
And I agree, it is a shame that it happens at all.
I would imagine being pregnant is like carrying around a big bowling ball 24/7 for 9 months. Some sympathy classes have men do just that.
I don't need to imagine this, giving birth is similar to passing stones. Learned that from a nurse that has done both. Except she said passing the stones was far more painful.
Well, then I wouldn't except anyone to understand you, if you simply assume they can't.
Additionally, when you are pregnant and you are bitchy and untrusting. Don't expect to understand what your husband is going through.
Men don't react very well, psycho-physiologically to that situation. In a general sense.
I know I would, and I would probably take it out on my husband, rather than my friends or random aquantances.
That's a good idea. Then you and your friend can stay in one house and your husbands in the other.
Me, I was a bitch on wheels. I stayed away from people as much as I could so that I'd have some friends left when it was all over.
Maybe your right, my ex-gf is naturally a bitchy person, maybe all she needed was to get knocked up. She swore to me she would have an abortion if she ever got pregnant. Apparently she was wrong.
A bowling ball for nine months? Maybe the last month or so.
For the first few months its just a Maggot.
Well, the egg becomes a baby quite rapidly, not 9 months exactly. The majority of the size is grown within the first 25 weeks. (Moore & Persaud, 1993)
http://www.cerebralpalsychildren.com/CP1.jpg