Immigration

Tim Simmons

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

It’s pretty fucking easy to “master” lying and being full of shit if you have zero ethical standards. Make a ton of promises, break them all, state media tells you it was the other side’s fault, boom. 

Fighting lies is swimming upstream
is a tsunami. I’m tired of people giving that POS credit for mastering anything. Anyone could do that if they were a narcissist to the level he is. He’s not special. 

If he was a master at messaging his approval rating wouldn’t be in the toilet this early in his term. 

Many smart reasonable conservatives voted for him.

I know these words, but this sentence makes no sense. 

Tim Simmons

If they were smart and or reasonable, they wouldn’t have voted for him. If they did, they are neither smart nor reasonable. 

Merkin Baller

Tim Simmons said:

Democrats do need to offer something substantial to the public. Sane leadership isn’t enough. While I think the public is on the wrong side of things, the culture war stuff won’t get widespread traction. The US public’s default thought is “what’s in it for me” and they need to cater to that. 

I thought Harris’ Medicare elder care plan was a home run. That’s impactful for everyone. They do need to campaign on more like that. 

I don't disagree that Democrats need to do a lot of things differently, I just don't know how they break through the RW media apparatus. They have no answer for that, and unless otherwise smart and reasonable people start to see through and turn away from Fox News etc, I don't see any way out of the mess we're in. 

Tim Simmons

Agreed.

HughFreakingDillon

Tim Simmons said:

Democrats do need to offer something substantial to the public. Sane leadership isn’t enough. While I think the public is on the wrong side of things, the culture war stuff won’t get widespread traction. The US public’s default thought is “what’s in it for me” and they need to cater to that. 

I thought Harris’ Medicare elder care plan was a home run. That’s impactful for everyone. They do need to campaign on more like that. 

Too many voters in your country are stupid. (<—— THIS IS WHY DEMS LOST 😂)

Make broad claims and bullshit: I’ll vote for that guy!
Give specifics on a plan: that’ll make my taxes go up. I’m voting the liar. 

Tim Simmons

I think Trump winning is due to a confluence of factors. The biggest being incumbent parties governing out of the pandemic were losing left and right. Combine that with many voters being disengaged from info and politics because *life*, then you factor in rw media, culture wars and the various ways of being exhausted from that, low info voters, etc, it’s a perfect shit storm. 

Tim Simmons

Over the past 4 months we’ve read  two dozen reasons why things shook out the way they did. They’re ALL correct. Probably together  

Halifax2TheMax

The stupid American electorate with the three second attention spans are not going to become policy wonks and vote their interests. Brandon had very detailed policy proposals on a whole range of issues that were mostly center or center-left, including tax breaks for middle and lower classes, and a whole host of other issues and “they’re eating the pets of the people that live there.” Primal fear is a much easier switch than rational intelligence.

Stupid won and now it’s time for them to reap what they’ve sown and own it.

HughFreakingDillon

Tim Simmons said:

Over the past 4 months we’ve read  two dozen reasons why things shook out the way they did. They’re ALL correct. Probably together  

Agreed 100%. So tired of people saying it was (this one thing). Misinformation had a lot to do with it, but there were msny factors. 

Merkin Baller

Tim Simmons said:

Over the past 4 months we’ve read  two dozen reasons why things shook out the way they did. They’re ALL correct. Probably together  

Agreed.

Halifax2TheMax

El Salvador, ‘Murica’s Siberian Gulag.

Lerxst1992

Merkin Baller said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

It’s pretty fucking easy to “master” lying and being full of shit if you have zero ethical standards. Make a ton of promises, break them all, state media tells you it was the other side’s fault, boom. 

Fighting lies is swimming upstream
is a tsunami. I’m tired of people giving that POS credit for mastering anything. Anyone could do that if they were a narcissist to the level he is. He’s not special. 

If he was a master at messaging his approval rating wouldn’t be in the toilet this early in his term. 

I am only saying that’s why he won. I don’t agree with it, but in order to understand politics, I find it necessary to understand why voters continually reject democrats when all the Rs do is tax cuts for billionaires. Take one step to the center. Many smart reasonable conservatives voted for him.

You're still dismissing the massive amount of misinformation even supposed smart and reasonable conservatives believe to be true because they only consume Fox News. No amount of Democrat messaging is going to break through to people who don't want to be reached. 


In response to the boldfaced: 

"Take one step to the center" said the unjust man.

You step towards him, he steps away.

"Take one step to the center" says the unjust man, again. 

And they say the exact same about dems. Yes they are mostly inaccurate, but not fully, and that’s where their wedge with voters exists. 

as far as not knowing how to break thru, the bottom line is democratic leadership is terrible at messaging. How do we know this? They miss obvious messages almost every time.

in 2024 Rs were blaming Biden Harris for inflation. Dem leadership should have immediately determined that would be toxic to their campaign. Yet They had no idea how to fight back.

I can’t recall one time they tried to pin that inflation on the broken supply chain they inherited. Instead of mentioning it once or twice, if they even did, it should have been a central theme in its advertising. Short and sweet with pictures of ships lined up in LA and overflowing empty shipping containers

trump doesn’t care if his punches are 100% accurate. He just punches and punches, knowing eventually they will land with 2% of the voters. On inflation, all the dems did is take his punches, and their loss is their own fault. It was obvious the second they started getting the blame for inflation, by the dude who caused it. 

that was so easy and obvious. Yet there are plenty of on this page blaming voters. That just doesn’t work. Go no further than Biden Harris on who to blame.

HughFreakingDillon

Lerxst1992 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

It’s pretty fucking easy to “master” lying and being full of shit if you have zero ethical standards. Make a ton of promises, break them all, state media tells you it was the other side’s fault, boom. 

Fighting lies is swimming upstream
is a tsunami. I’m tired of people giving that POS credit for mastering anything. Anyone could do that if they were a narcissist to the level he is. He’s not special. 

If he was a master at messaging his approval rating wouldn’t be in the toilet this early in his term. 

I am only saying that’s why he won. I don’t agree with it, but in order to understand politics, I find it necessary to understand why voters continually reject democrats when all the Rs do is tax cuts for billionaires. Take one step to the center. Many smart reasonable conservatives voted for him.

You're still dismissing the massive amount of misinformation even supposed smart and reasonable conservatives believe to be true because they only consume Fox News. No amount of Democrat messaging is going to break through to people who don't want to be reached. 


In response to the boldfaced: 

"Take one step to the center" said the unjust man.

You step towards him, he steps away.

"Take one step to the center" says the unjust man, again. 

And they say the exact same about dems. Yes they are mostly inaccurate, but not fully, and that’s where their wedge with voters exists. 

as far as not knowing how to break thru, the bottom line is democratic leadership is terrible at messaging. How do we know this? They miss obvious messages almost every time.

in 2024 Rs were blaming Biden Harris for inflation. Dem leadership should have immediately determined that would be toxic to their campaign. Yet They had no idea how to fight back.

I can’t recall one time they tried to pin that inflation on the broken supply chain they inherited. Instead of mentioning it once or twice, if they even did, it should have been a central theme in its advertising. Short and sweet with pictures of ships lined up in LA and overflowing empty shipping containers

trump doesn’t care if his punches are 100% accurate. He just punches and punches, knowing eventually they will land with 2% of the voters. On inflation, all the dems did is take his punches, and their loss is their own fault. It was obvious the second they started getting the blame for inflation, by the dude who caused it. 

that was so easy and obvious. Yet there are plenty of on this page blaming voters. That just doesn’t work. Go no further than Biden Harris on who to blame.

you continue to completely discount how easy it is to manipulate with lies and hatred. Humans naturally resonate with what is negatively affecting them. That's what maga taps into. It doesn't matter that it's all lies. You clearly don't understand how hard it is to fight misinformation with truth. Misinformation wins all day long. It's easier to digest. It takes no critical thought. Why do you think since the dawn of television, politicians use attack ads instead of positive messages about what they will do? Cuz that's what works. Truth be damned. But if dems did that, or when they do that, they get hammered by the moral high ground. 

If it's so easy, you are missing out on one helluva lucrative opportunity as a campaign manager. "wonder why"

benjs

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

It’s pretty fucking easy to “master” lying and being full of shit if you have zero ethical standards. Make a ton of promises, break them all, state media tells you it was the other side’s fault, boom. 

Fighting lies is swimming upstream
is a tsunami. I’m tired of people giving that POS credit for mastering anything. Anyone could do that if they were a narcissist to the level he is. He’s not special. 

If he was a master at messaging his approval rating wouldn’t be in the toilet this early in his term. 

I am only saying that’s why he won. I don’t agree with it, but in order to understand politics, I find it necessary to understand why voters continually reject democrats when all the Rs do is tax cuts for billionaires. Take one step to the center. Many smart reasonable conservatives voted for him.

You're still dismissing the massive amount of misinformation even supposed smart and reasonable conservatives believe to be true because they only consume Fox News. No amount of Democrat messaging is going to break through to people who don't want to be reached. 


In response to the boldfaced: 

"Take one step to the center" said the unjust man.

You step towards him, he steps away.

"Take one step to the center" says the unjust man, again. 

And they say the exact same about dems. Yes they are mostly inaccurate, but not fully, and that’s where their wedge with voters exists. 

as far as not knowing how to break thru, the bottom line is democratic leadership is terrible at messaging. How do we know this? They miss obvious messages almost every time.

in 2024 Rs were blaming Biden Harris for inflation. Dem leadership should have immediately determined that would be toxic to their campaign. Yet They had no idea how to fight back.

I can’t recall one time they tried to pin that inflation on the broken supply chain they inherited. Instead of mentioning it once or twice, if they even did, it should have been a central theme in its advertising. Short and sweet with pictures of ships lined up in LA and overflowing empty shipping containers

trump doesn’t care if his punches are 100% accurate. He just punches and punches, knowing eventually they will land with 2% of the voters. On inflation, all the dems did is take his punches, and their loss is their own fault. It was obvious the second they started getting the blame for inflation, by the dude who caused it. 

that was so easy and obvious. Yet there are plenty of on this page blaming voters. That just doesn’t work. Go no further than Biden Harris on who to blame.

you continue to completely discount how easy it is to manipulate with lies and hatred. Humans naturally resonate with what is negatively affecting them. That's what maga taps into. It doesn't matter that it's all lies. You clearly don't understand how hard it is to fight misinformation with truth. Misinformation wins all day long. It's easier to digest. It takes no critical thought. Why do you think since the dawn of television, politicians use attack ads instead of positive messages about what they will do? Cuz that's what works. Truth be damned. But if dems did that, or when they do that, they get hammered by the moral high ground. 

If it's so easy, you are missing out on one helluva lucrative opportunity as a campaign manager. "wonder why"

I posted this in November, as I think they're factors that are not considered adequately by Democratic leadership. When I think of how the Democrats have messaged over the past eight years, these are the things I feel Democrats are getting wrong.

1. The voting populace will vote for immediate change, not long term change. Don't campaign on long-term change

2. Character is not even close to a top issue. Don't campaign by criticizing another's character
3. The truthfulness of a claim is not considered by supporters. Truth doesn't matter - volume does. Speak louder. Be entertaining - whatever it is, stand up and stand out.
4. The voting populace is deaf to criticism by non-supporters (and excuse criticism by claiming that someone is a non-supporter). If you're a Republican, the word of a Democrat is less than meaningless, and vice-versa. Republican change will only come from Republicans, and vice-versa. Don't waste time on each others' networks unless you seriously can convince a Republican that your values are the same as theirs.
5. There is a belief in the finite amount of power and government concern available for distribution. Therefore, power or government concern granted to any cohort other than a voter’s own, is seen as a loss of power to (or lack of concern about) that voter. That includes gender, race, religion, and any other exploitable division of humans. People are easily divided. They think if the government is caring about someone else, they themselves are cared for less by the government. Trans rights, etc - shouldn't be main talking points during campaigns, as they're easily exploited
6. If given permission to suppress critical thought, by someone seen as powerful, a voter will gladly take that opportunity. People don't want to think. They want to trust and believe.

Tim Simmons

I think both can be true that Dems suck at messaging, especially in 2024, and also that many American voters are dumb as rocks.

Halifax2TheMax

benjs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

It’s pretty fucking easy to “master” lying and being full of shit if you have zero ethical standards. Make a ton of promises, break them all, state media tells you it was the other side’s fault, boom. 

Fighting lies is swimming upstream
is a tsunami. I’m tired of people giving that POS credit for mastering anything. Anyone could do that if they were a narcissist to the level he is. He’s not special. 

If he was a master at messaging his approval rating wouldn’t be in the toilet this early in his term. 

I am only saying that’s why he won. I don’t agree with it, but in order to understand politics, I find it necessary to understand why voters continually reject democrats when all the Rs do is tax cuts for billionaires. Take one step to the center. Many smart reasonable conservatives voted for him.

You're still dismissing the massive amount of misinformation even supposed smart and reasonable conservatives believe to be true because they only consume Fox News. No amount of Democrat messaging is going to break through to people who don't want to be reached. 


In response to the boldfaced: 

"Take one step to the center" said the unjust man.

You step towards him, he steps away.

"Take one step to the center" says the unjust man, again. 

And they say the exact same about dems. Yes they are mostly inaccurate, but not fully, and that’s where their wedge with voters exists. 

as far as not knowing how to break thru, the bottom line is democratic leadership is terrible at messaging. How do we know this? They miss obvious messages almost every time.

in 2024 Rs were blaming Biden Harris for inflation. Dem leadership should have immediately determined that would be toxic to their campaign. Yet They had no idea how to fight back.

I can’t recall one time they tried to pin that inflation on the broken supply chain they inherited. Instead of mentioning it once or twice, if they even did, it should have been a central theme in its advertising. Short and sweet with pictures of ships lined up in LA and overflowing empty shipping containers

trump doesn’t care if his punches are 100% accurate. He just punches and punches, knowing eventually they will land with 2% of the voters. On inflation, all the dems did is take his punches, and their loss is their own fault. It was obvious the second they started getting the blame for inflation, by the dude who caused it. 

that was so easy and obvious. Yet there are plenty of on this page blaming voters. That just doesn’t work. Go no further than Biden Harris on who to blame.

you continue to completely discount how easy it is to manipulate with lies and hatred. Humans naturally resonate with what is negatively affecting them. That's what maga taps into. It doesn't matter that it's all lies. You clearly don't understand how hard it is to fight misinformation with truth. Misinformation wins all day long. It's easier to digest. It takes no critical thought. Why do you think since the dawn of television, politicians use attack ads instead of positive messages about what they will do? Cuz that's what works. Truth be damned. But if dems did that, or when they do that, they get hammered by the moral high ground. 

If it's so easy, you are missing out on one helluva lucrative opportunity as a campaign manager. "wonder why"

I posted this in November, as I think they're factors that are not considered adequately by Democratic leadership. When I think of how the Democrats have messaged over the past eight years, these are the things I feel Democrats are getting wrong.

1. The voting populace will vote for immediate change, not long term change. Don't campaign on long-term change

2. Character is not even close to a top issue. Don't campaign by criticizing another's character
3. The truthfulness of a claim is not considered by supporters. Truth doesn't matter - volume does. Speak louder. Be entertaining - whatever it is, stand up and stand out.
4. The voting populace is deaf to criticism by non-supporters (and excuse criticism by claiming that someone is a non-supporter). If you're a Republican, the word of a Democrat is less than meaningless, and vice-versa. Republican change will only come from Republicans, and vice-versa. Don't waste time on each others' networks unless you seriously can convince a Republican that your values are the same as theirs.
5. There is a belief in the finite amount of power and government concern available for distribution. Therefore, power or government concern granted to any cohort other than a voter’s own, is seen as a loss of power to (or lack of concern about) that voter. That includes gender, race, religion, and any other exploitable division of humans. People are easily divided. They think if the government is caring about someone else, they themselves are cared for less by the government. Trans rights, etc - shouldn't be main talking points during campaigns, as they're easily exploited
6. If given permission to suppress critical thought, by someone seen as powerful, a voter will gladly take that opportunity. People don't want to think. They want to trust and believe.

I would insert “blindly” between “to” and “trust” in your last sentence.

Merkin Baller

Lerxst1992 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

It’s pretty fucking easy to “master” lying and being full of shit if you have zero ethical standards. Make a ton of promises, break them all, state media tells you it was the other side’s fault, boom. 

Fighting lies is swimming upstream
is a tsunami. I’m tired of people giving that POS credit for mastering anything. Anyone could do that if they were a narcissist to the level he is. He’s not special. 

If he was a master at messaging his approval rating wouldn’t be in the toilet this early in his term. 

I am only saying that’s why he won. I don’t agree with it, but in order to understand politics, I find it necessary to understand why voters continually reject democrats when all the Rs do is tax cuts for billionaires. Take one step to the center. Many smart reasonable conservatives voted for him.

You're still dismissing the massive amount of misinformation even supposed smart and reasonable conservatives believe to be true because they only consume Fox News. No amount of Democrat messaging is going to break through to people who don't want to be reached. 


In response to the boldfaced: 

"Take one step to the center" said the unjust man.

You step towards him, he steps away.

"Take one step to the center" says the unjust man, again. 

And they say the exact same about dems. Yes they are mostly inaccurate, but not fully, and that’s where their wedge with voters exists. 

as far as not knowing how to break thru, the bottom line is democratic leadership is terrible at messaging. How do we know this? They miss obvious messages almost every time.

in 2024 Rs were blaming Biden Harris for inflation. Dem leadership should have immediately determined that would be toxic to their campaign. Yet They had no idea how to fight back.

I can’t recall one time they tried to pin that inflation on the broken supply chain they inherited. Instead of mentioning it once or twice, if they even did, it should have been a central theme in its advertising. Short and sweet with pictures of ships lined up in LA and overflowing empty shipping containers

trump doesn’t care if his punches are 100% accurate. He just punches and punches, knowing eventually they will land with 2% of the voters. On inflation, all the dems did is take his punches, and their loss is their own fault. It was obvious the second they started getting the blame for inflation, by the dude who caused it. 

that was so easy and obvious. Yet there are plenty of on this page blaming voters. That just doesn’t work. Go no further than Biden Harris on who to blame.

I guess I just don't understand how any change in messaging would get through to supposedly "smart and reasonable conservatives" who voted for trump. 

If they're smart and reasonable, they shouldn't need Joe Biden to explain the inflation of the last few years to them, they already know.

Merkin Baller

Well said @benjs

Go Beavers

“Rational”’republicans (not cult like) are currently telling themselves things would be worse if Harris was president. It’s difficult to counter that because there isn’t a reality of Harris as president that can be used for comparison. 

cblock4life

HughFreakingDillon said:

It’s pretty fucking easy to “master” lying and being full of shit if you have zero ethical standards. Make a ton of promises, break them all, state media tells you it was the other side’s fault, boom. 

Fighting lies is swimming upstream
is a tsunami. I’m tired of people giving that POS credit for mastering anything. Anyone could do that if they were a narcissist to the level he is. He’s not special. 

If he was a master at messaging his approval rating wouldn’t be in the toilet this early in his term. 

Ok, I’m convinced we are somehow related.  You know my dad was a pig (cheated a lot) so you may be my brother😂

You are absolutely correct.  I’ve been dealing with a narcissist practically my whole life and you described it perfectly.  They become experts at it and if you let your guard down you could be in for a heap shit of trouble, pain, and heartache.  They’re relentless and never, ever sorry.