Immigration

Merkin Baller

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

This forum is helping me understand why the democrats lost to trump. Yes she was detained in horrible conditions but there is another side to this story with plenty of relevant facts.

One minute of Internet research…

“According to Mooney, she was visiting home in Vancouver in November when she learned that her three-year work visa had been revoked.

 “Jasmine mentioned she was going to San Ysidro. I said, ‘I don’t think that’s a good idea with this new administration and the political climate,’ ” Mooney's immigration lawyer, Len Saunders recalled. “I said, ‘Look, if you are my client, I would probably advise you to do this on the northern border. I just have a bad feeling from when the new administration took over.' " “

..

Who was president in November?

Was she aware relations between these two countries has been extremely tense?

Why would she come on American soil against the advise of her attorney.

The main reason Trump won was misinformation about the economy under Biden and the fantasy belief surrounding Trump and his ability to improve the economy. The other reasons had to do with culture war narratives that effectively stirred up anger and fear. 

Bingo was his name-o.

HughFreakingDillon

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's hilarious that every random event that liberals get upset about is somehow related to why trump won an election. totally bizarre cognitive connections being made. 

It’s hilarious when some have the need to constantly throw shade without challenging its own conviction to question comfortable beliefs. Much easier to be always right I guess

he ran on..

the us is 36 trillion in debt
the us is being taken advantage of financially by others
the us has an immigration problem, draining its resources and wealth of Americans 


The last thing this is … is random

voters agreed with him, I didn’t. We have a case of a Canadian citizen who either wasn’t paying attention or didn’t care to. Came onto American soil against the advice of her attorney and without a visa.

yet no one here will even raise or acknowledge that issues have two sides. Wonder why.

 Shade is much more comfortable than thinking.

She was in the country illegally. She was detained and sent back as the law allows. The conditions of detainment are a separate issue and have been that way through both parties action/inaction. 

This incident and dems reaction to it has zero to do with why trump won. Saying that over and over again by you and at least one other every time something like this occurs is a sad attempt at an I told you so. 

Trump won on lies and misinformation. That’s it. It’s not “cuz democrats/libs”. 

Lerxst1992

Merkin Baller said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

This forum is helping me understand why the democrats lost to trump. Yes she was detained in horrible conditions but there is another side to this story with plenty of relevant facts.

One minute of Internet research…

“According to Mooney, she was visiting home in Vancouver in November when she learned that her three-year work visa had been revoked.

 “Jasmine mentioned she was going to San Ysidro. I said, ‘I don’t think that’s a good idea with this new administration and the political climate,’ ” Mooney's immigration lawyer, Len Saunders recalled. “I said, ‘Look, if you are my client, I would probably advise you to do this on the northern border. I just have a bad feeling from when the new administration took over.' " “

..

Who was president in November?

Was she aware relations between these two countries has been extremely tense?

Why would she come on American soil against the advise of her attorney.

The main reason Trump won was misinformation about the economy under Biden and the fantasy belief surrounding Trump and his ability to improve the economy. The other reasons had to do with culture war narratives that effectively stirred up anger and fear. 

Bingo was his name-o.

I’ll keep saying it. I don’t agree with it. But this is what he ran vigorously on.

the us is 36 trillion in debt
the us is being taken advantage of financially by others
the us has an immigration problem, draining its resources and wealth of Americans 

HughFreakingDillon

If you don’t agree with it why do you keep telling Canadians we need to pay up? 

And all of those points are what’s referred to as “misinformation”. 

tbergs

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's hilarious that every random event that liberals get upset about is somehow related to why trump won an election. totally bizarre cognitive connections being made. 

It’s hilarious when some have the need to constantly throw shade without challenging its own conviction to question comfortable beliefs. Much easier to be always right I guess

he ran on..

the us is 36 trillion in debt
the us is being taken advantage of financially by others
the us has an immigration problem, draining its resources and wealth of Americans 


The last thing this is … is random

voters agreed with him, I didn’t. We have a case of a Canadian citizen who either wasn’t paying attention or didn’t care to. Came onto American soil against the advice of her attorney and without a visa.

yet no one here will even raise or acknowledge that issues have two sides. Wonder why.

 Shade is much more comfortable than thinking.

I hear what you're saying, but I think you are putting the onus on regular citizens to live in fear and forego doing anything historically considered normal/legal, whether fringe or not, because we have a dictator in the White House. Basically, don't rock the boat or you'll get what's coming to you. It's frankly frightening to witness and even worse to read comments by you and Get Right that ultimately "victim blame" people for facing extreme repercussions for actions that are not ultimately criminal in nature. It's beyond fucked up, but I'm starting to feel like I'm in the minority on this issue when I read comments like yours and see the continued support by the public in this president. I mean, how the hell is his approval so high yet?

As it stands, I don't see Democrats taking back any branch of government in 2 or 4 years. People seem mostly ok with what is happening and my perspective is that now that Project 2025 is being rolled out, the average American is ok with it and prefers there to be a regimented plan on how the country is run, whether it's good or not. Democrats are doing a lot of naysaying, but they don't even come close to being able to put together something that comprehensive and overarching. It almost seems like a lot of people like living under an authoritarian regime because it comforts them, at least until it comes to their doorstep, but these people are too ignorant to even consider it causing them any harm until it most certainly does. That, or it's because at their core, they agree with the draconian way the government is being run the past 2 months. Either way, it sucks and doesn't bode well for us as a country.

Merkin Baller

Lerxst1992 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

This forum is helping me understand why the democrats lost to trump. Yes she was detained in horrible conditions but there is another side to this story with plenty of relevant facts.

One minute of Internet research…

“According to Mooney, she was visiting home in Vancouver in November when she learned that her three-year work visa had been revoked.

 “Jasmine mentioned she was going to San Ysidro. I said, ‘I don’t think that’s a good idea with this new administration and the political climate,’ ” Mooney's immigration lawyer, Len Saunders recalled. “I said, ‘Look, if you are my client, I would probably advise you to do this on the northern border. I just have a bad feeling from when the new administration took over.' " “

..

Who was president in November?

Was she aware relations between these two countries has been extremely tense?

Why would she come on American soil against the advise of her attorney.

The main reason Trump won was misinformation about the economy under Biden and the fantasy belief surrounding Trump and his ability to improve the economy. The other reasons had to do with culture war narratives that effectively stirred up anger and fear. 

Bingo was his name-o.

I’ll keep saying it. I don’t agree with it. But this is what he ran vigorously on.

the us is 36 trillion in debt
the us is being taken advantage of financially by others
the us has an immigration problem, draining its resources and wealth of Americans 

He ran vigorously on fixing the economy, and in 2024 America had the best economy of any developed nation. He ran vigorously against inflation that he blamed on Biden, but in reality was caused by a global pandemic. No nation handled pandemic induced inflation better than America. 

Go off tho... 

Lerxst1992

Merkin Baller said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

This forum is helping me understand why the democrats lost to trump. Yes she was detained in horrible conditions but there is another side to this story with plenty of relevant facts.

One minute of Internet research…

“According to Mooney, she was visiting home in Vancouver in November when she learned that her three-year work visa had been revoked.

 “Jasmine mentioned she was going to San Ysidro. I said, ‘I don’t think that’s a good idea with this new administration and the political climate,’ ” Mooney's immigration lawyer, Len Saunders recalled. “I said, ‘Look, if you are my client, I would probably advise you to do this on the northern border. I just have a bad feeling from when the new administration took over.' " “

..

Who was president in November?

Was she aware relations between these two countries has been extremely tense?

Why would she come on American soil against the advise of her attorney.

The main reason Trump won was misinformation about the economy under Biden and the fantasy belief surrounding Trump and his ability to improve the economy. The other reasons had to do with culture war narratives that effectively stirred up anger and fear. 

Bingo was his name-o.

I’ll keep saying it. I don’t agree with it. But this is what he ran vigorously on.

the us is 36 trillion in debt
the us is being taken advantage of financially by others
the us has an immigration problem, draining its resources and wealth of Americans 

He ran vigorously on fixing the economy, and in 2024 America had the best economy of any developed nation. He ran vigorously against inflation that he blamed on Biden, but in reality was caused by a global pandemic. No nation handled pandemic induced inflation better than America. 

Go off tho... 

I completely agree with this comment, however those three points he ran on that I raised are true as well. I am not saying I told you so, or even it’s why he won. Just that these three points were significant in his campaign and people fell for that. And he is following thru now. 


as far as your point inflation was caused by trumps handling of COVID, I’ve mentioned that several times on the forum, and I can’t recall Biden or Harris making that point. I do recall them blaming him for unemployment. If they did blame him for the broken supply chain, it should have been a significant theme in her campaign. It wasn’t.

Merkin Baller

Lerxst1992 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

This forum is helping me understand why the democrats lost to trump. Yes she was detained in horrible conditions but there is another side to this story with plenty of relevant facts.

One minute of Internet research…

“According to Mooney, she was visiting home in Vancouver in November when she learned that her three-year work visa had been revoked.

 “Jasmine mentioned she was going to San Ysidro. I said, ‘I don’t think that’s a good idea with this new administration and the political climate,’ ” Mooney's immigration lawyer, Len Saunders recalled. “I said, ‘Look, if you are my client, I would probably advise you to do this on the northern border. I just have a bad feeling from when the new administration took over.' " “

..

Who was president in November?

Was she aware relations between these two countries has been extremely tense?

Why would she come on American soil against the advise of her attorney.

The main reason Trump won was misinformation about the economy under Biden and the fantasy belief surrounding Trump and his ability to improve the economy. The other reasons had to do with culture war narratives that effectively stirred up anger and fear. 

Bingo was his name-o.

I’ll keep saying it. I don’t agree with it. But this is what he ran vigorously on.

the us is 36 trillion in debt
the us is being taken advantage of financially by others
the us has an immigration problem, draining its resources and wealth of Americans 

He ran vigorously on fixing the economy, and in 2024 America had the best economy of any developed nation. He ran vigorously against inflation that he blamed on Biden, but in reality was caused by a global pandemic. No nation handled pandemic induced inflation better than America. 

Go off tho... 

I completely agree with this comment, however those three points he ran on that I raised are true as well. I am not saying I told you so, or even it’s why he won. Just that these three points were significant in his campaign and people fell for that. And he is following thru now. 


as far as your point inflation was caused by trumps handling of COVID, I’ve mentioned that several times on the forum, and I can’t recall Biden or Harris making that point. I do recall them blaming him for unemployment. If they did blame him for the broken supply chain, it should have been a significant theme in her campaign. It wasn’t.

& to Hugh's point, the things you mentioned that he ran on: 

the us is 36 trillion in debt
the us is being taken advantage of financially by others
the us has an immigration problem, draining its resources and wealth of Americans 

Are also based on misinformation in some way shape or form. 


It's ok to admit he won on misinformation. And he's still winning on misinformation. 

Lerxst1992

tbergs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's hilarious that every random event that liberals get upset about is somehow related to why trump won an election. totally bizarre cognitive connections being made. 

It’s hilarious when some have the need to constantly throw shade without challenging its own conviction to question comfortable beliefs. Much easier to be always right I guess

he ran on..

the us is 36 trillion in debt
the us is being taken advantage of financially by others
the us has an immigration problem, draining its resources and wealth of Americans 


The last thing this is … is random

voters agreed with him, I didn’t. We have a case of a Canadian citizen who either wasn’t paying attention or didn’t care to. Came onto American soil against the advice of her attorney and without a visa.

yet no one here will even raise or acknowledge that issues have two sides. Wonder why.

 Shade is much more comfortable than thinking.

I hear what you're saying, but I think you are putting the onus on regular citizens to live in fear and forego doing anything historically considered normal/legal, whether fringe or not, because we have a dictator in the White House. Basically, don't rock the boat or you'll get what's coming to you. It's frankly frightening to witness and even worse to read comments by you and Get Right that ultimately "victim blame" people for facing extreme repercussions for actions that are not ultimately criminal in nature. It's beyond fucked up, but I'm starting to feel like I'm in the minority on this issue when I read comments like yours and see the continued support by the public in this president. I mean, how the hell is his approval so high yet?

As it stands, I don't see Democrats taking back any branch of government in 2 or 4 years. People seem mostly ok with what is happening and my perspective is that now that Project 2025 is being rolled out, the average American is ok with it and prefers there to be a regimented plan on how the country is run, whether it's good or not. Democrats are doing a lot of naysaying, but they don't even come close to being able to put together something that comprehensive and overarching. It almost seems like a lot of people like living under an authoritarian regime because it comforts them, at least until it comes to their doorstep, but these people are too ignorant to even consider it causing them any harm until it most certainly does. That, or it's because at their core, they agree with the draconian way the government is being run the past 2 months. Either way, it sucks and doesn't bode well for us as a country.

I don’t want folks to live in fear, although it may come to that. I was replying to some anger at trump for that unfortunate Canadian actress who was detained. How the USA treats detainees, especially those that formerly had visas is definitely a point I support. But this actress ignored her attorney and entered the USA without a visa. In this climate. Something I needed to research on the internet after reading a one sided thread posted here.

In a perfect world those who post news articles, perhaps that’s a good thing to do before posting. But who the heck am I to say.

Only trying to point out here is a legitimate counter to this specific fact pattern. When the far left goes off against trump on the news, they often look bad when there are legitimate counters that they ignore. It makes the dems look bad to the middle, and the left is oblivious to that.

now if the govt does not abide by the court investigating if those were deported to El Salvador against a court order, that’s frightening. The court has a right to know if its order was violated, and if so, those responsible should be held in contempt.

Tim Simmons

Its a fair and correct point. If you want the moral and factual high ground, be fair, moral and factual. 

that being said and at the risk of whataboutism, its like pointing out that its starting to rain, while theres a hole in the boat and its sinking. Ignoring legitimate counters to specific fact patterns has been a conservative hallmark for over a couple of decades now. So much so its broken through to the electorate. It comes off as a bit unfair to hold only one side up to this standard of information fairness, to say nothing of the degrees of what facts end up being ignored by either end of the political spectrum and which do the most damage.


But yes. Include all the relevant information for readers. certainly. but these are not apples to apples omissions in terms of chasing a narrative for political gain. 

HughFreakingDillon

Tim Simmons said:

Its a fair and correct point. If you want the moral and factual high ground, be fair, moral and factual. 

that being said and at the risk of whataboutism, its like pointing out that its starting to rain, while theres a hole in the boat and its sinking. Ignoring legitimate counters to specific fact patterns has been a conservative hallmark for over a couple of decades now. So much so its broken through to the electorate. It comes off as a bit unfair to hold only one side up to this standard of information fairness, to say nothing of the degrees of what facts end up being ignored by either end of the political spectrum and which do the most damage.


But yes. Include all the relevant information for readers. certainly. but these are not apples to apples omissions in terms of chasing a narrative for political gain. 

This. My god I've/we've been saying this for YEARS. "The Left" has a different standard to be held to. "The Left" is responsible for who the right voted for. The Left The Left The Left. The right can do what it wants because they are the supposed bad guy, so it's up to the Left to be virtuous and true AND win. It's beyond annoying. 

Tim Simmons

His point stands though. All relevant info should be included. Especially if you want to be the higher standard. 

Unfortunately, thats not how any of this works anymore. 

HughFreakingDillon

of course all relevant info should be included. I'm saying how we act or react is supposed to be different, even when all things are equal. 

Lerxst1992

Tim Simmons said:

His point stands though. All relevant info should be included. Especially if you want to be the higher standard. 

Unfortunately, thats not how any of this works anymore. 

Winning an election is about messaging to the electorate. For all of his BS, Donnie has mastered this and the dems have no idea for ten years how to respond.

regarding the debt, being taken advantage of by other countries and deporting immigrants, trump was clear during the election and these actions should not be a surprise. 

The business with defying court orders, that’s where to draw the line, because the dems would need to be heard to have any impact. the risk being, dems start to complain about everything and anything and get called out they are going to look foolish and voters will continue to ignore them.

HughFreakingDillon

It’s pretty fucking easy to “master” lying and being full of shit if you have zero ethical standards. Make a ton of promises, break them all, state media tells you it was the other side’s fault, boom. 

Fighting lies is swimming upstream
is a tsunami. I’m tired of people giving that POS credit for mastering anything. Anyone could do that if they were a narcissist to the level he is. He’s not special. 

If he was a master at messaging his approval rating wouldn’t be in the toilet this early in his term. 

Halifax2TheMax

France wants their Statue of Liberty back. Truth.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHWvhPgSOhQ/?igsh=MTU3enB1eGp6OXRvaQ==

Lerxst1992

HughFreakingDillon said:

It’s pretty fucking easy to “master” lying and being full of shit if you have zero ethical standards. Make a ton of promises, break them all, state media tells you it was the other side’s fault, boom. 

Fighting lies is swimming upstream
is a tsunami. I’m tired of people giving that POS credit for mastering anything. Anyone could do that if they were a narcissist to the level he is. He’s not special. 

If he was a master at messaging his approval rating wouldn’t be in the toilet this early in his term. 

I am only saying that’s why he won. I don’t agree with it, but in order to understand politics, I find it necessary to understand why voters continually reject democrats when all the Rs do is tax cuts for billionaires. Take one step to the center. Many smart reasonable conservatives voted for him.

Merkin Baller

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

It’s pretty fucking easy to “master” lying and being full of shit if you have zero ethical standards. Make a ton of promises, break them all, state media tells you it was the other side’s fault, boom. 

Fighting lies is swimming upstream
is a tsunami. I’m tired of people giving that POS credit for mastering anything. Anyone could do that if they were a narcissist to the level he is. He’s not special. 

If he was a master at messaging his approval rating wouldn’t be in the toilet this early in his term. 

I am only saying that’s why he won. I don’t agree with it, but in order to understand politics, I find it necessary to understand why voters continually reject democrats when all the Rs do is tax cuts for billionaires. Take one step to the center. Many smart reasonable conservatives voted for him.

You're still dismissing the massive amount of misinformation even supposed smart and reasonable conservatives believe to be true because they only consume Fox News. No amount of Democrat messaging is going to break through to people who don't want to be reached. 


In response to the boldfaced: 

"Take one step to the center" said the unjust man.

You step towards him, he steps away.

"Take one step to the center" says the unjust man, again. 

HughFreakingDillon

Meh, I guess it tracks. It’s always one side’s responsibility to change, never any other reason. 

Tim Simmons

Democrats do need to offer something substantial to the public. Sane leadership isn’t enough. While I think the public is on the wrong side of things, the culture war stuff won’t get widespread traction. The US public’s default thought is “what’s in it for me” and they need to cater to that. 

I thought Harris’ Medicare elder care plan was a home run. That’s impactful for everyone. They do need to campaign on more like that.