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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,254
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    Actually the more I look it looks like there's no choice but to separate. It's tragic but aside from sending them away together (is this an option?) or just letting everyone in if they happen to have children, you cannot run them through the system side-by-side.

    That said, I don't have the impression that it's particularly well-run from the standpoint of actually knowing what kids go with what parents and I suspect many will never see each other again. Tracking should be taken at least as seriously as a lot of more mundane shit that lesser government units track.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,524
    OnWis97 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    Actually the more I look it looks like there's no choice but to separate. It's tragic but aside from sending them away together (is this an option?) or just letting everyone in if they happen to have children, you cannot run them through the system side-by-side.

    That said, I don't have the impression that it's particularly well-run from the standpoint of actually knowing what kids go with what parents and I suspect many will never see each other again. Tracking should be taken at least as seriously as a lot of more mundane shit that lesser government units track.
    100% on the tracking, it should be fool proof, and what they have been doing is embarrassing.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  
    Good to know.  What other laws wouldn't you enforce?  ;)

    civil procedure is way different than criminal procedure.

    something called due process? by court order?

    IDK. read that somewhere once I think.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,524
    How does your suggestion of due process stop the separation of parent and child during the arrest process?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025
    so to inderstand, you're coming from they have no rights under our constitutional system that makes very few distinctions between citizens and non-citizens.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,846
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  
    Good to know.  What other laws wouldn't you enforce?  ;)
    Marijuana laws, where it's still illegal, for starters. (excluding serious offenses like OUI, etc) 

    Immigration needs to be fixed, I'm not refuting that, but people whose only offense is being undocumented wouldn't be kicked out. If people want to come here and work and raise their families, what's the problem? Get them on the books & paying taxes. If they don't want to do that, then sure, throw them out.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,745
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  
    Good to know.  What other laws wouldn't you enforce?  ;)
    Marijuana laws, where it's still illegal, for starters. (excluding serious offenses like OUI, etc) 

    Immigration needs to be fixed, I'm not refuting that, but people whose only offense is being undocumented wouldn't be kicked out. If people want to come here and work and raise their families, what's the problem? Get them on the books & paying taxes. If they don't want to do that, then sure, throw them out.
    They’re already paying taxes in one form or another.
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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,846
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  
    Good to know.  What other laws wouldn't you enforce?  ;)
    Marijuana laws, where it's still illegal, for starters. (excluding serious offenses like OUI, etc) 

    Immigration needs to be fixed, I'm not refuting that, but people whose only offense is being undocumented wouldn't be kicked out. If people want to come here and work and raise their families, what's the problem? Get them on the books & paying taxes. If they don't want to do that, then sure, throw them out.
    They’re already paying taxes in one form or another.
    I'm well aware. 

    That doesn't mean the system doesn't need to be fixed. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,524
    mickeyrat said:
    so to inderstand, you're coming from they have no rights under our constitutional system that makes very few distinctions between citizens and non-citizens.
    Where did I say that? 

    I understand that the constitution does not refer to citizens, only people in the USA. So they should have due process, which means after arrested and detained, bond hearing, legal representation, a court hearing.  In most cases anyhow
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,745
    Merkin Baller said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  
    Good to know.  What other laws wouldn't you enforce?  ;)
    Marijuana laws, where it's still illegal, for starters. (excluding serious offenses like OUI, etc) 

    Immigration needs to be fixed, I'm not refuting that, but people whose only offense is being undocumented wouldn't be kicked out. If people want to come here and work and raise their families, what's the problem? Get them on the books & paying taxes. If they don't want to do that, then sure, throw them out.
    They’re already paying taxes in one form or another.
    I'm well aware. 

    That doesn't mean the system doesn't need to be fixed. 
    Last year’s immigration bill was the best attempt in a very long time but you know, COOTWH. You can pretty much assume that nothing will be done for the next four years except for the current cruelty.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025
    cincybearcat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    so to inderstand, you're coming from they have no rights under our constitutional system that makes very few distinctions between citizens and non-citizens.
    Where did I say that? 

    I understand that the constitution does not refer to citizens, only people in the USA. So they should have due process, which means after arrested and detained, bond hearing, legal representation, a court hearing.  In most cases anyhow
    right. point to where this is happening now under this administration.

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025
    will look forward to confirmation of this if true. 



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025
    mickeyrat said:




    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,524
    mickeyrat said:
    cincybearcat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    so to inderstand, you're coming from they have no rights under our constitutional system that makes very few distinctions between citizens and non-citizens.
    Where did I say that? 

    I understand that the constitution does not refer to citizens, only people in the USA. So they should have due process, which means after arrested and detained, bond hearing, legal representation, a court hearing.  In most cases anyhow
    right. point to where this is happening now under this administration.

    I thought this thread was immigration …. Not trumps immigration? Huh….

    I will say so many people have gotten so used to this being abused that they see enforcement as excessive.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,524
    This thread should be renamed, moving the goalpost. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025
    talking about current happenings is moving the goalposts.

    ok.

    theres what could/should happen, like say Congress acting as a co-equal branch.

    When process reaches the Judiciary  , they can at times, in theory, act as a co-equal branch.

    then theres the hamfisted, heavy handed shit occurring NOW, in some ways a ramping up of policies going back to Obama.

    this gitmo idea is more than disturbing. leaving who to determine whats the worst criminals.  actual criminals or those undocumentedwhich fall on the civil side of law?

    lets do this. pause all deportations, unless and until all employers exploiting this labor pool are held criminally liable as well?

    crossings dropped to pre-fuckstick levels with the new process of applying for asylum in place via the app that was created last summer . all those appointments for those folks following those new EO rules, gone.

    Do you think they are just turning around and going back to whatever caused them to flee to begin with?

    so who is it that moved the goalposts? folks here , largely in agreement that congress must act and perhaps have slight differences of how to achieve more common ideas surrounding this topic? or the current admin?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,846

  • DE4173DE4173 Posts: 994
    💀

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,397
    mickeyrat said:


    You reap what you sow! Maybe he can call his neighbors to see if their teen kids want to work 😂😂 you know Johnny or Timmy or Frankie! That’s just roofing, how about all the rest of services that hard working immigrants perform everyday all through America? 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025
    Due Process is a foundational principle of this nation. In fact fuckstick abused the right to escape accountability for his crimes against the country and its citizens.
    Unless criminal statutes were broken i.e. burglery, theft etc. being here as an undocumented person is a civil matter.



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025
    edited February 1
    will acknowledge the lack of context and its hard to hear the words in the  yelling. It could be staged for all I know.
    This location is nw of indy on 65



    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,025
    hmmm. this video touches on immigrant prospect in mid 1800 america. and a lot more.



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • battle1battle1 PHI Posts: 506
    mickeyrat said:
    will acknowledge the lack of context and its hard to hear the words in the  yelling. It could be staged for all I know.
    This location is nw of indy on 65



    Sorry, mickey but there is zero evidence that this video is actually an ICE raid.  Posting things like this is equally as dangerous as what you rail against daily.  
  • battle1battle1 PHI Posts: 506
    Literally posting fake videos, and its not the first time.  This forum is sad.  
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,397
    Been talking to immigrants that I come in contact with! Today I spoke to one individual that I buy burning wood from really great guy hard working immigrant, I asked how’s his family and situation I’ve been dealing with him for the past 4 winters he said he’s in the process of trying to get status here but now it’s been shut down. He’s anxious angry frustrated but he has no choice but to try to keep working and hope ICE doesn’t stop him, he also stated that he has no problem with deporting individuals that are committing crimes or not contributing to society in a positive manner. 
    I’ve also spoken to others and the recurring theme is the same why punish those who are committing no crimes and are contributing to the country! Surely we are advanced enough to have an effective efficient process for streamlining the immigrants that have good intentions to better themselves. But I don’t see how that happens with this administration 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,418
    josevolution said:
     Surely we are advanced enough to have an effective efficient process...

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