Immigration

mace1229

I haven't heard of anyone manufacturing fentanyl in the United States, only China and Mexico. Is that actually happening here?

tbergs

mace1229 said:

I haven't heard of anyone manufacturing fentanyl in the United States, only China and Mexico. Is that actually happening here?

It's not, but it doesn't have to be because doctors were handing it out like candy for decades.

josevolution

mace1229 said:

I haven't heard of anyone manufacturing fentanyl in the United States, only China and Mexico. Is that actually happening here?

They will once it can’t be transported across the borders! Dealers always find a way there’s to much $$$$ to be made from the Americans! 

shecky

City Councilwoman Danielle Jurinsky feels vindicated after months of warnings

 By Madison Colombo Fox News

Published December 18, 2024 2:00pm EST

Nineteen suspected members of the Venezuelan Tren de Aragua gang were detained this week following a violent home invasion that left two Aurora residents hospitalized. The incident has sparked renewed outrage from City Councilwoman Danielle Jurinsky, who has long warned about rising migrant-related crime in the city.

"This is unfortunately not something you want to be able to say I told you so on, but I told you so," Jurinsky said during an interview on ‘Fox & Friends’ Wednesday. 

"Nobody wanted to listen to me. This very much turned into political theater leading up to the presidential election. Many people have suffered."

According to Aurora Police Chief Todd Chamberlain, the suspects entered an apartment at a complex that had previously been the center of gang-related violence. The suspects allegedly took two victims to another unit, where they were beaten, pistol-whipped, and threatened.

"This isn’t just assault. This isn’t just fistfights. This is absolute torture," said Jurinsky, referencing claims that the female victim’s fingernails were forcibly removed. A male victim suffered a stab wound, but both are expected to recover.

Chief Chamberlain, who took office in September, described the attack as "a gang incident" during a press conference on Tuesday, but stopped short of confirming what group the suspects were affiliated with. "So, does this fall into the category of torture for me? Yeah, it does," he said.

Jurinsky has been vocal about her concerns regarding migrant-related crime, particularly the growing presence of Tren de Aragua (TDA), a violent gang that originated in Venezuela. A previous incident at the same apartment complex, involving TDA members pounding on doors and brandishing weapons, gained national attention earlier this year.

"Once the Americans were moved out of the complex. This is the most vulnerable population left. These are other migrants. Some of them don’t even realize where they are. They were simply dropped off in the middle of the night in some cases." 

The gang’s growing footprint in the United States has raised alarms at both local and federal levels. Texas Congressman Troy Nehls, R-Texas, recently stated that TDA now operates in 17 states. Members of the gang have also been linked to other high-profile crimes, including the murder of Georgia nursing student Laken Riley. 

Jurinsky has pointed to federal immigration policies under the Biden administration as a contributing factor to the rise of TDA in the United States. Telling Fox’s Laura Ingraham in September, "These folks are a product of our current administration’s failed border policies. American citizens have had to suffer because of it." 

A recent New York Times report confirmed that the Biden administration oversaw the highest net immigration numbers in U.S. history – much of that due to illegal immigration. 

President-elect Donald Trump, who has pledged to prioritize mass deportations during his second term, made Aurora a pivotal campaign message ahead of the election. 

During an October 11th rally in Aurora, the President-elect announced "Operation Aurora," a plan to target undocumented immigrants with gang ties. Trump says he intends to use the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to "expedite the removal of these savage gangs."

While Jurinsky remains critical of the city’s previous leadership, she expressed support for Chief Chamberlain’s transparency and commitment to tackling the issue. "He has made clear that we will not stand for this. It is a new day in the Aurora police chief’s office."

For now, Aurora residents wait to see whether these arrests will mark a turning point in the fight against TDA and other violent groups infiltrating the city

Tim Simmons

Sounds like the current system is working. They caught them.

josevolution

If you’re an illegal immigrant with no legal status and are part of violent gangs or committing crimes they should be deported I have no problem with that 

shecky

josevolution said:

If you’re an illegal immigrant with no legal status and are part of violent gangs or committing crimes they should be deported I have no problem with that 

Agreed. The problem we have is, Tren de Aragua (TDA), who make MS-13 look like kindergartners, are embedded in 16 of our states now. Joe Biden and Mayorkas are 100% responsible for this, by opening our borders and not properly vetting people coming in the last 4 years.

Tim Simmons

We have 200 different scourges in this country that are worse. We don’t need to burn down the whole immigration system to fix this. The police will police. The current system works just fine. 

tbergs

shecky said:

josevolution said:

If you’re an illegal immigrant with no legal status and are part of violent gangs or committing crimes they should be deported I have no problem with that 

Agreed. The problem we have is, Tren de Aragua (TDA), who make MS-13 look like kindergartners, are embedded in 16 of our states now. Joe Biden and Mayorkas are 100% responsible for this, by opening our borders and not properly vetting people coming in the last 4 years.

You don't even know what you're talking about when you say "open borders". If by open, you mean people can come and go through the legal avenue anyway there, yes. We aren't closing the country [name-calling removed by admin. See Posting Guidelines to keep your forum account from being read-only.]. The border was never an open door where people freely wandered in. That's only at schools these days where everyone is supposed to be armed.

HughFreakingDillon

tbergs said:

shecky said:

josevolution said:

If you’re an illegal immigrant with no legal status and are part of violent gangs or committing crimes they should be deported I have no problem with that 

Agreed. The problem we have is, Tren de Aragua (TDA), who make MS-13 look like kindergartners, are embedded in 16 of our states now. Joe Biden and Mayorkas are 100% responsible for this, by opening our borders and not properly vetting people coming in the last 4 years.

You don't even know what you're talking about when you say "open borders". If by open, you mean people can come and go through the legal avenue anyway there, yes. We aren't closing the country [name-calling removed by admin. See Posting Guidelines to keep your forum account from being read-only.]. The border was never an open door where people freely wandered in. That's only at schools these days where everyone is supposed to be armed.

Shecky thinks mexico is the 52nd state (canada being 51) and wants a wall a la post WW2 germany and mexico will be New New Mexico, or maybe New Mexico 2. That will be decided by a twitter poll. Trump suggested South America not realizing that might cause some confusion. 

brianlux

FiveBelow said:

brianlux said:

Choccoloccotide said:

josevolution said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-border-czar-tom-homan-fact-check-mexican-cartels-u-s-fentanyl-deaths/Trump's "border czar" claims Mexican cartels killed a quarter-million Americans with fentanyl. Here's a fact check.

Here you go sheckster & chocotide 250k fentanyl deaths 😂 blame the Mexican’s, like Joey or Linda overdosing are not to blame and who’s selling them the drug it ain’t Chico & the man it’s Pauley down the street or Mike in the dorm next door! 

Well the Mexican govt is bought off by the cartels and Chinese to allow the unrestricted flow of fentanyl across the border.  Trump blames the Mexican govt and the CCP (Chicomms) for fentanyl, not the Mexican people.  Here ya go:  https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/drugs-fentanyl-china/

Even though it was written a while back, to get a clear picture about what goes on there, this is an excellent book.  Not an easy read by any means, but really well written and researched by the author right at the source.  It's amazing he was able to publish this.

No offense to Charles Bowden, but Matt Foley is probably more familiar with what goes on “down by the river”.

You either haven't read Bowden, or don't know much about him or even know who he is, or you're just kidding.

I hope it's the latter.  If you're not kidding, the offense is on you, not me.

Bowden's work was heavy duty, highly engaging, sometimes absolutely brutal, and even at times oddly humorous.  He was no slouch.  He hung out with the heavies of the cartel drug lords to research and gather information, as well as the people on both sides of the border, the druggies, the average person, and the higher ups in the DEA.  He was no bullshit, didn't have a naive bone in his body, and he was a hell of a fine writer.

mace1229

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

so is that only because of illegal immigrants? I kind of doubt that...not saying they might not add to the issue but come on.

Also...no one compares anyone to Hitler for wanting to deport illegals. The issue is how are they discovered? Do we just deport them as they are arrested for committing crime? Or do we form teams to seek them out and deport any illegal...even ones who have assimilated and work/contribute to society, etc. And at what cost? Is the cost of such a program more than the cost of dealing with them?

I have nothing against stricter policies.

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

so is that only because of illegal immigrants? I kind of doubt that...not saying they might not add to the issue but come on.

Also...no one compares anyone to Hitler for wanting to deport illegals. The issue is how are they discovered? Do we just deport them as they are arrested for committing crime? Or do we form teams to seek them out and deport any illegal...even ones who have assimilated and work/contribute to society, etc. And at what cost? Is the cost of such a program more than the cost of dealing with them?

I have nothing against stricter policies.

I doubt illegal immigrants are the only group that benefits from that, but they undoubtedly require language services at a higher rate than any other group. And, without that group, might not be to the point where it's a requirement now.

People have been comparing trump and his immigration policies to hitler for 8 years. Claiming they'll be sent off in "box cars" etc. His deportation plan of illegal immigrants has 100% been compared to nazi Germany and their treatment of the Jews.

Go Beavers

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

Illegals don’t receive many of the same benefits. In some states they can be eligible for certain benefits, like medical. Kids do get to go to school and I think you’re referring to being eligible for meals there where available. And I’d say the majority of republicans think we have literal open borders. 

Tim Simmons

I mean, they did separate families and used cages, so it’s not that massive of a jump. 

josevolution

Tim Simmons said:

I mean, they did separate families and used cages, so it’s not that massive of a jump. 

There is that too maybe this time they’ll keep families together or maybe give them cots to sleep on 

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

so is that only because of illegal immigrants? I kind of doubt that...not saying they might not add to the issue but come on.

Also...no one compares anyone to Hitler for wanting to deport illegals. The issue is how are they discovered? Do we just deport them as they are arrested for committing crime? Or do we form teams to seek them out and deport any illegal...even ones who have assimilated and work/contribute to society, etc. And at what cost? Is the cost of such a program more than the cost of dealing with them?

I have nothing against stricter policies.

I doubt illegal immigrants are the only group that benefits from that, but they undoubtedly require language services at a higher rate than any other group. And, without that group, might not be to the point where it's a requirement now.

People have been comparing trump and his immigration policies to hitler for 8 years. Claiming they'll be sent off in "box cars" etc. His deportation plan of illegal immigrants has 100% been compared to nazi Germany and their treatment of the Jews.

well...if you listen to Homan that isn't too far off. trump has at least said that they wouldn't separate families...they will just deport everyone. It's tough because if the family is here illegally but they are self sufficient it does seem a bit cruel to just upend them from wherever they have settled and kick them across the border. I get it...they are here illegally, but that is where the disconnect is.

mace1229

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

Illegals don’t receive many of the same benefits. In some states they can be eligible for certain benefits, like medical. Kids do get to go to school and I think you’re referring to being eligible for meals there where available. And I’d say the majority of republicans think we have literal open borders. 

In every state I've lived schools are required to provide 2 free meals to children who live in a household under a certain income. The majority of illegal immigrants (as well as many others) meet that requirement. 
What I meant by receive the same benefits, is there is very little they are denied based off their legal status. They can qualify for in-state tuition, which is just tax-subsidized college, some state funded financial Ade and scholarships, free k-12 education, anything a school offers is offered to all children. I'm not sure about subsided health care, but they can't be denied in an ER, which leads to an abuse of ER visits over non-emergency illnesses.  We offer more to illegal immigrants than any other country I've heard of. 
I'm not saying it's all wrong and we should stop immediately, I'm glad we offer a lot of those services. I also think some of it is overboard too. 

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

Illegals don’t receive many of the same benefits. In some states they can be eligible for certain benefits, like medical. Kids do get to go to school and I think you’re referring to being eligible for meals there where available. And I’d say the majority of republicans think we have literal open borders. 

In every state I've lived schools are required to provide 2 free meals to children who live in a household under a certain income. The majority of illegal immigrants (as well as many others) meet that requirement. 
What I meant by receive the same benefits, is there is very little they are denied based off their legal status. They can qualify for in-state tuition, which is just tax-subsidized college, some state funded financial Ade and scholarships, free k-12 education, anything a school offers is offered to all children. I'm not sure about subsided health care, but they can't be denied in an ER, which leads to an abuse of ER visits over non-emergency illnesses.  We offer more to illegal immigrants than any other country I've heard of. 
I'm not saying it's all wrong and we should stop immediately, I'm glad we offer a lot of those services. I also think some of it is overboard too. 

it's a huge problem for sure...balancing humanity with funding is a tough call

a simplistic approach would be for the US to require money from whatever country they are coming from but that is a slippery slope as well

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

so is that only because of illegal immigrants? I kind of doubt that...not saying they might not add to the issue but come on.

Also...no one compares anyone to Hitler for wanting to deport illegals. The issue is how are they discovered? Do we just deport them as they are arrested for committing crime? Or do we form teams to seek them out and deport any illegal...even ones who have assimilated and work/contribute to society, etc. And at what cost? Is the cost of such a program more than the cost of dealing with them?

I have nothing against stricter policies.

I doubt illegal immigrants are the only group that benefits from that, but they undoubtedly require language services at a higher rate than any other group. And, without that group, might not be to the point where it's a requirement now.

People have been comparing trump and his immigration policies to hitler for 8 years. Claiming they'll be sent off in "box cars" etc. His deportation plan of illegal immigrants has 100% been compared to nazi Germany and their treatment of the Jews.

well...if you listen to Homan that isn't too far off. trump has at least said that they wouldn't separate families...they will just deport everyone. It's tough because if the family is here illegally but they are self sufficient it does seem a bit cruel to just upend them from wherever they have settled and kick them across the border. I get it...they are here illegally, but that is where the disconnect is.

You don't think deporting illegal immigrants back to their country of origin vs sending citizens to work/concentration camps to die is not the same thing and not a fair comparison?

mace1229

Tim Simmons said:

I mean, they did separate families and used cages, so it’s not that massive of a jump. 

The cages and "drinking toilet water" were around before trump. Just no one cared until he was in office. 

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

Illegals don’t receive many of the same benefits. In some states they can be eligible for certain benefits, like medical. Kids do get to go to school and I think you’re referring to being eligible for meals there where available. And I’d say the majority of republicans think we have literal open borders. 

In every state I've lived schools are required to provide 2 free meals to children who live in a household under a certain income. The majority of illegal immigrants (as well as many others) meet that requirement. 
What I meant by receive the same benefits, is there is very little they are denied based off their legal status. They can qualify for in-state tuition, which is just tax-subsidized college, some state funded financial Ade and scholarships, free k-12 education, anything a school offers is offered to all children. I'm not sure about subsided health care, but they can't be denied in an ER, which leads to an abuse of ER visits over non-emergency illnesses.  We offer more to illegal immigrants than any other country I've heard of. 
I'm not saying it's all wrong and we should stop immediately, I'm glad we offer a lot of those services. I also think some of it is overboard too. 

it's a huge problem for sure...balancing humanity with funding is a tough call

a simplistic approach would be for the US to require money from whatever country they are coming from but that is a slippery slope as well

I think we can agree on this. That would be a good idea, but don't know how you'd enforce it, or like getting blood from a turnip if you could.

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

so is that only because of illegal immigrants? I kind of doubt that...not saying they might not add to the issue but come on.

Also...no one compares anyone to Hitler for wanting to deport illegals. The issue is how are they discovered? Do we just deport them as they are arrested for committing crime? Or do we form teams to seek them out and deport any illegal...even ones who have assimilated and work/contribute to society, etc. And at what cost? Is the cost of such a program more than the cost of dealing with them?

I have nothing against stricter policies.

I doubt illegal immigrants are the only group that benefits from that, but they undoubtedly require language services at a higher rate than any other group. And, without that group, might not be to the point where it's a requirement now.

People have been comparing trump and his immigration policies to hitler for 8 years. Claiming they'll be sent off in "box cars" etc. His deportation plan of illegal immigrants has 100% been compared to nazi Germany and their treatment of the Jews.

well...if you listen to Homan that isn't too far off. trump has at least said that they wouldn't separate families...they will just deport everyone. It's tough because if the family is here illegally but they are self sufficient it does seem a bit cruel to just upend them from wherever they have settled and kick them across the border. I get it...they are here illegally, but that is where the disconnect is.

You don't think deporting illegal immigrants back to their country of origin vs sending citizens to work/concentration camps to die is not the same thing and not a fair comparison?

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

Illegals don’t receive many of the same benefits. In some states they can be eligible for certain benefits, like medical. Kids do get to go to school and I think you’re referring to being eligible for meals there where available. And I’d say the majority of republicans think we have literal open borders. 

In every state I've lived schools are required to provide 2 free meals to children who live in a household under a certain income. The majority of illegal immigrants (as well as many others) meet that requirement. 
What I meant by receive the same benefits, is there is very little they are denied based off their legal status. They can qualify for in-state tuition, which is just tax-subsidized college, some state funded financial Ade and scholarships, free k-12 education, anything a school offers is offered to all children. I'm not sure about subsided health care, but they can't be denied in an ER, which leads to an abuse of ER visits over non-emergency illnesses.  We offer more to illegal immigrants than any other country I've heard of. 
I'm not saying it's all wrong and we should stop immediately, I'm glad we offer a lot of those services. I also think some of it is overboard too. 

it's a huge problem for sure...balancing humanity with funding is a tough call

a simplistic approach would be for the US to require money from whatever country they are coming from but that is a slippery slope as well

I think we can agree on this. That would be a good idea, but don't know how you'd enforce it, or like getting blood from a turnip if you could.

How do you feel about Elongitaint being here illegally? What about Memeania being an anchor mama? Surely this bothers your conscience too? You do realize that most “illegals” as you call them arrive via airports and overstay their visas, right? So, how do you feel about the Eastern Europeans that arrive via O’hare?

Halifax2TheMax

What some folks seem to miss in this debate is that we’re supposed to be a nation of laws and if you want to fix the immigration problem, you need to change the law. The last time this happened was 1986. Fucking 1986. We had a bipartisan overhaul of the law that would have done a lot of good things ready to be passed until the repubs took their direction from a candidate for POTUS because it was an issue they needed to run on to win. It scares all those folks in fly over country and in the hollers. Bottom line, most of us will have a difficult time without migrants contributing to the economy but the billionaire class will be fine, inflation doesn’t effect them and no one is kicking in their door or raiding their factory floor and arresting their “help.”

So, tell us, what is this opposition to immigration really about? It can’t be ESL classes, or ER visits, nor crime, seeing how native born have higher crime rates. What is it really about?

Halifax2TheMax

This may explain it. Might have to read it.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCCEu7yx2oV/?igsh=dXdmbjgwYzIzY20z

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

Illegals don’t receive many of the same benefits. In some states they can be eligible for certain benefits, like medical. Kids do get to go to school and I think you’re referring to being eligible for meals there where available. And I’d say the majority of republicans think we have literal open borders. 

In every state I've lived schools are required to provide 2 free meals to children who live in a household under a certain income. The majority of illegal immigrants (as well as many others) meet that requirement. 
What I meant by receive the same benefits, is there is very little they are denied based off their legal status. They can qualify for in-state tuition, which is just tax-subsidized college, some state funded financial Ade and scholarships, free k-12 education, anything a school offers is offered to all children. I'm not sure about subsided health care, but they can't be denied in an ER, which leads to an abuse of ER visits over non-emergency illnesses.  We offer more to illegal immigrants than any other country I've heard of. 
I'm not saying it's all wrong and we should stop immediately, I'm glad we offer a lot of those services. I also think some of it is overboard too. 

it's a huge problem for sure...balancing humanity with funding is a tough call

a simplistic approach would be for the US to require money from whatever country they are coming from but that is a slippery slope as well

I think we can agree on this. That would be a good idea, but don't know how you'd enforce it, or like getting blood from a turnip if you could.

How do you feel about Elongitaint being here illegally? What about Memeania being an anchor mama? Surely this bothers your conscience too? You do realize that most “illegals” as you call them arrive via airports and overstay their visas, right? So, how do you feel about the Eastern Europeans that arrive via O’hare?

I called them "illegal immigrants." And what's wrong with that? Beavers is the one that called them "illegals," feel free to give him a hard time about that and imply he is racist if you want, but I don't have an issue with it.
I am aware that there are a number of illegal immigrants from Europe who over stay their visas. Same rules should apply to them and everyone else.
I don't see any data supporting the claim that's where the majority come from, where are you getting that?
I'm not sure what you want me to say about Millannia and I assume Musk? I'm not too familiar with their immigration history other than supposedly they didn't have the right papers at some point back in the 90s. I don't approve of that if that's the case, but I don't think we should go back 30 years and retroactively charge people for immigration crimes far beyond the statute of limitations. There are thousands, if not millions of other people here legally now who were not of legal status when they arrived. I feel the same way about them all. Look at current immigration status, not what happened 30 years ago.

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

This may explain it. Might have to read it.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCCEu7yx2oV/?igsh=dXdmbjgwYzIzY20z

If it doesn't explain it using pictures, then I don't bother. 

mickeyrat

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Here's my take on "open border."
No one means it is open by the literal definition. But that we have the most lax immigration laws of any developed country. At formal crossings, yes, they check for documentation and deny entry if you don't have it. But in 99.99% of the border that isn't a formal crossing, it is thinly monitored and once you make it beyond a few miles of the border without getting caught, you're extremely unlikely to be ever sent back while receiving many benefits from the state and country.
It is against the law for a school official to even ask a student their legal status. Illegal immigrants will receive many of the same benefits at a higher rate that citizens. They can get 2 free meals a day, specialized language services, etc. 
Here you get compared to Hitler if you want to deport someone who is here illegally.  But that happens everywhere else in the world. 
Our immigration system is a joke, and that is how I interpret "open borders." And we bend over backwards to accommodate everyone, teachers in many states have to get an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement on their credential that they pay for the program on their own and take the classes on their own time or their credential is not renewed and they lose their job.

Illegals don’t receive many of the same benefits. In some states they can be eligible for certain benefits, like medical. Kids do get to go to school and I think you’re referring to being eligible for meals there where available. And I’d say the majority of republicans think we have literal open borders. 

In every state I've lived schools are required to provide 2 free meals to children who live in a household under a certain income. The majority of illegal immigrants (as well as many others) meet that requirement. 
What I meant by receive the same benefits, is there is very little they are denied based off their legal status. They can qualify for in-state tuition, which is just tax-subsidized college, some state funded financial Ade and scholarships, free k-12 education, anything a school offers is offered to all children. I'm not sure about subsided health care, but they can't be denied in an ER, which leads to an abuse of ER visits over non-emergency illnesses.  We offer more to illegal immigrants than any other country I've heard of. 
I'm not saying it's all wrong and we should stop immediately, I'm glad we offer a lot of those services. I also think some of it is overboard too. 

it's a huge problem for sure...balancing humanity with funding is a tough call

a simplistic approach would be for the US to require money from whatever country they are coming from but that is a slippery slope as well

I think we can agree on this. That would be a good idea, but don't know how you'd enforce it, or like getting blood from a turnip if you could.

How do you feel about Elongitaint being here illegally? What about Memeania being an anchor mama? Surely this bothers your conscience too? You do realize that most “illegals” as you call them arrive via airports and overstay their visas, right? So, how do you feel about the Eastern Europeans that arrive via O’hare?

I called them "illegal immigrants." And what's wrong with that? Beavers is the one that called them "illegals," feel free to give him a hard time about that and imply he is racist if you want, but I don't have an issue with it.
I am aware that there are a number of illegal immigrants from Europe who over stay their visas. Same rules should apply to them and everyone else.
I don't see any data supporting the claim that's where the majority come from, where are you getting that?
I'm not sure what you want me to say about Millannia and I assume Musk? I'm not too familiar with their immigration history other than supposedly they didn't have the right papers at some point back in the 90s. I don't approve of that if that's the case, but I don't think we should go back 30 years and retroactively charge people for immigration crimes far beyond the statute of limitations. There are thousands, if not millions of other people here legally now who were not of legal status when they arrived. I feel the same way about them all. Look at current immigration status, not what happened 30 years ago.

it is hard for you to change how this group is referred to? from illegal to undocumented?  I put those in the asylum pipeline as undocumented. they followed the law, crossed wherever and promptly turned themselves in as the law stated. 

visa overstays are different. they enter under legal status for a finite time period. When they choose to not address visa staus and instead "lose themselves" within the country, they are visitors here illegally, perhaps at the point of visa expiration without action to address we can reclassify them as migrants here illegally.

those who jump the border are migrants here illegally outside of the legal framework of asylum.

have you ever been speeding and not got caught? like well over the limit?  you're then an illegal driver by the logic that seems to be at play with migrants....

consider a different way of thinking/framing.