The Rapture is not an Exit Strategy

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

in what way? i know that most people don't read the bible, hell, neither do any of my "church-going" friends. if anybody shares a part of literature, poetry or history does that mean he saying, "oh look at me i'm so smart and you're so stupid"? well, i'd like for people to hear about my faith. a friend of mine, who believes in the dali lama, once told me that in the buddhist religion they allow you to keep your religion but sort of try to convince you to have an open mind to their religion. i'm open to all religions. but it would be nice if people opened up just a little bit to my beliefs

you're absolutely right on this. in fact, you've summarized my arguments i use against atheists.

in the same way you talk about the atheists. dont you see that you and they are the same way? they say "i dont know how anyone could be so dumb as to believe in god" you say "i dont know how anyone could be so dumb as to not believe in jesus." it's the same thing. that is the way in which your posts come off as condescending. the way you speak as if your views are a foregone conclusion and the only reasonable views out there. people of all religions do it.

Collin

soulsinging wrote:

people of all religions do it.

people in general.

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

in the same way you talk about the atheists. dont you see that you and they are the same way? they say "i dont know how anyone could be so dumb as to believe in god" you say "i dont know how anyone could be so dumb as to not believe in jesus." it's the same thing. that is the way in which your posts come off as condescending. the way you speak as if your views are a foregone conclusion and the only reasonable views out there. people of all religions do it.

well, if i made it sound as if people are dumb for not believing in what i don't believe then my apologies. from the bottom of my heart, to all religions and beliefs, i'll even stab my chest admitting to it, those are not my intentions. my intentions were completely opposite of that. but as for atheists, they actually tell me right off the bat that they think i'm an idiot. the reason i can't understand it, or wrap my mind around it, is because the value that the bible gives us is so brilliant. it truly promises lots of great things, not only in this life but in the life thereafter, so that's why i said i don't understand why people wouldn't want to believe. what's wrong with the promises the bible gives us?

i totally agree with you... people of all religions do it. but these were not my intentions. i was only sharing what a book says.

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

yes, i can. and i do. i dont agree with it, but it is very easy for me to wrap my head around the idea that not everyone believes what i do.

no, you don't. that is why you've argued with me. but you are entitled to this right.

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

well, if i made it sound as if people are dumb for not believing in what i don't believe then my apologies. from the bottom of my heart, to all religions and beliefs, i'll even stab my chest admitting to it, those are not my intentions. my intentions were completely opposite of that. but as for atheists, they actually tell me right off the bat that they think i'm an idiot. the reason i can't understand it, or wrap my mind around it, is because the value that the bible gives us is so brilliant. it truly promises lots of great things, not only in this life but in the life thereafter, so that's why i said i don't understand why people wouldn't want to believe. what's wrong with the promises the bible gives us?

i totally agree with you... people of all religions do it. but these were not my intentions. i was only sharing what a book says.

and im saying that regardless of your intentions, that is how it SOUNDS to them. a lot of people dont care about the next life, they're concerned with being happy in this one. and the bible doesn't hold the keys to happiness in this life for everyone, becos everyone is different and has different needs. this is why they think those are your intentions. and it's also why many atheists are so antagonistic, cos they're defensive. if they tell you you're an idiot you made 2 mistakes: 1) starting to preach about how wonderful the bible is which just makes you seem like a jesus freak who's trying to convert them, and 2) respond when they act like jerkoffs and call you an idiot. dont bring up religion anymore. and if they do and start insulting you, ignore it.

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

no, you don't. that is why you've argued with me. but you are entitled to this right.

oh yes i do. and i havent argued with you, ive been asking you to explain your beliefs to me and saying that those beliefs dont work for me.

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

and im saying that regardless of your intentions, that is how it SOUNDS to them.

well, as i said. sorry.

a lot of people dont care about the next life, they're concerned with being happy in this one. and the bible doesn't hold the keys to happiness in this life for everyone, becos everyone is different and has different needs.

this is based on having an open mind, which clearly no one has, and that really doesn't concern me. and it's just an opinion which i also respect.

this is why they think those are your intentions. and it's also why many atheists are so antagonistic, cos they're defensive. if they tell you you're an idiot you made 2 mistakes: 1) starting to preach about how wonderful the bible is which just makes you seem like a jesus freak who's trying to convert them, and 2) respond when they act like jerkoffs and call you an idiot. dont bring up religion anymore. and if they do and start insulting you, ignore it.

well now i'm sounding like a needy person. it doesn't really bother me. but i do however agree with you on the attitude that we should take. that's the kind of attitude my father takes. and an attitude that i am learning to take. i only brought those issues because they are always calling christians antogonistic and condescending when they are guilty of the very same thing. that's all i'm saying. i don't think it's a mistake by saying how wonderful the bible is, it's my right to speak about that freely.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Fuck bumper stickers...ever get raptured in the nuts?

much worse...

Scubascott

deadnothingbetter wrote:

the value that the bible gives us is so brilliant. it truly promises lots of great things, not only in this life but in the life thereafter, so that's why i said i don't understand why people wouldn't want to believe. what's wrong with the promises the bible gives us?

This is what I was trying to point out before. It sort of sounds to me like you only believe what the bible says because you think it sounds nice and you want to believe it in order to give yourself comfort. Don't you think there should be a stonger reason for choosing to believe something than your own desire to believe it?

Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression and what you mean is that you think the messages in the bible are worth listening to whether you choose to believe literally in the stories or not?

spiral out

deadnothingbetter wrote:

the reason i can't understand it, or wrap my mind around it, is because the value that the bible gives us is so brilliant. it truly promises lots of great things, not only in this life but in the life thereafter, so that's why i said i don't understand why people wouldn't want to believe. what's wrong with the promises the bible gives us?

The bible to alot of people is a fairy tale, thats why people don't believe it. There is no prove in any of it.

Whats wrong with living in the here and now and enjoying live for what it is, instead of worrying about when you die?

Tell me do you pick and choose the bits that sound ok to you?

Collin

deadnothingbetter wrote:

but as for atheists, they actually tell me right off the bat that they think i'm an idiot.

You're quite fond of generalisations, aren't you?

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

well, as i said. sorry.

no need to apologize to me, it's your friends you seem to bother dude.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

this is based on having an open mind, which clearly no one has, and that really doesn't concern me. and it's just an opinion which i also respect. well now i'm sounding like a needy person. it doesn't really bother me. but i do however agree with you on the attitude that we should take. that's the kind of attitude my father takes. and an attitude that i am learning to take. i only brought those issues because they are always calling christians antogonistic and condescending when they are guilty of the very same thing. that's all i'm saying.

yeah, they're hypocrites. everyone is to some extent. but it sounds like you give as good as you get and like you're doing the same thing they are. so you're just as hypocritical as they are in this situation. so now you're all in a position where you're pointing fingers at each other saying "he started it." be the bigger man and end it and quit being baited by them.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

i don't think it's a mistake by saying how wonderful the bible is, it's my right to speak about that freely.

it is, but quit acting like it's so unfair if people get annoyed by your proselytizing. if you wanna jump on every opportunity to rave about how wonderful jesus and the bible are, don't be surprised if your friends get sick of hearing it and start getting antagonistic. cos i dont care how you intend it to be, it's annoying and condescending when someone can't have a single conversation without bringing up how much they love jesus (and implying that everyone else ought to do the same). they're your private, personal, spiritual beliefs, keep them private and personal. didn't jesus lecture about people walking around in public making huge public demonstrations of their faith like strutting peacocks?

deadnothingbetter

spiral out wrote:

The bible to alot of people is a fairy tale, thats why people don't believe it. There is no prove in any of it.

Whats wrong with living in the here and now and enjoying live for what it is, instead of worrying about when you die?

Tell me do you pick and choose the bits that sound ok to you?

no, i don't pick and choose what to believe in. but i understand that it's a fairy tale to most. and yes there is no prove in any of it. and no there's nothign wrong with living in the here and now for what it is.

deadnothingbetter

Collin wrote:

You're quite fond of generalisations, aren't you?

no, i'm not. it's just that everytime i share my beliefs i get attacked. but as soulsinging explained it, it's because they think that i'm being condescending towards them. i guess it's all due to lack of good communicationn. i just want to believe that there could be a time when atheist and christians share their beliefs without butchering each other. and it's what i've tried to do here and everytime i say something i'm the one that always ends up being the "bad guy"

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

no need to apologize to me, it's your friends you seem to bother dude.

what do you mean my friends? and if it's my friends why are you getting into my business?

yeah, they're hypocrites. everyone is to some extent. but it sounds like you give as good as you get and like you're doing the same thing they are. so you're just as hypocritical as they are in this situation. so now you're all in a position where you're pointing fingers at each other saying "he started it." be the bigger man and end it and quit being baited by them.

i thought we covered this topic already. i apologized to all the beliefs and religions for coming off in a preachy way. and as i said before it wasn't my intention to do that. if you understand what my intentions are, then take my intentions as such, i'm just sharing a story, not being condescending or force-feeding anybody. take it as a fairy tale or truth... i don't care, that's not my business. that's all that needs to be said about this.

it is, but quit acting like it's so unfair if people get annoyed by your proselytizing. if you wanna jump on every opportunity to rave about how wonderful jesus and the bible are, don't be surprised if your friends get sick of hearing it and start getting antagonistic. cos i dont care how you intend it to be, it's annoying and condescending when someone can't have a single conversation without bringing up how much they love jesus (and implying that everyone else ought to do the same). they're your private, personal, spiritual beliefs, keep them private and personal. didn't jesus lecture about people walking around in public making huge public demonstrations of their faith like strutting peacocks?

the bible is a wonderful book????? is that statement an offense? is it a mistake to say the bible is a wonderful book? you're being a bit extravagant with this comment and it's probably the most unreasonable one so far. and i'm not acting like anything here... you're trying to get me to shut up about my beliefs and trying to make me accept that it's plain wrong to share my faith. you have to agree that you've gone a little bit off with reason on this one. i'm not saying it's unfair if people get annoyed for my proselytizing(that means that you still think that my intentions are to force people my faith and if not then they go to hell for it),what i am saying is that it's a bit odd if people want me to accept that it's wrong to share my faiths. cause you have to remember that i wasn't speaking to you in the first place. i was making a comment for cosmo and he actually responded in a open-minded fashion. but your comments are what have brought us up to this point.

jesus lecturing of public demonstrations are just that, public demonstrations, not public discussions.

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

the bible is a wonderful book????? is that statement an offense? is it a mistake to say the bible is a wonderful book? you're being a bit extravagant with this comment and it's probably the most unreasonable one so far. and i'm not acting like anything here... you're trying to get me to shut up about my beliefs and trying to make me accept that it's plain wrong to share my faith. you have to agree that you've gone a little bit off with reason on this one. i don't care if people get annoyed, i just don't think it's fair if people want me to accept that it's wrong to share my faiths if someone is open to them. cause you have to remember that i wasn't speaking to you in the first place. i was making a comment for cosmo and he actually responded in a open-minded fashion. but it was your comment that has started this debate.

jesus lecturing of public demonstrations are just that, public demonstrations, not public discussions.

im equal opportunity. im just as annoyed by atheists who go round preaching about how stupid religion is and how infallible science is. it's annoying. i personally think people should keep their spiritual beliefs to themselves unless asked to share them... i dont care if you're an atheist, hindu, or christian. but i cant tell you not to share them. im just saying, if you feel compelled to spout off about those beliefs (and yes, a lot of it is based on poor communication) then dont be offended or surprised when people take shots back. in other words, if you hop in and start saying jesus is a savior and you should all believe that and it's crazy that some people don't, dont act like you're being unfairly targeted when people ask you to defend those beliefs or insult you becos they feel their beliefs are perfectly sane and are offended by your implication that it's crazy to believe jesus was not god.

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

im equal opportunity. im just as annoyed by atheists who go round preaching about how stupid religion is and how infallible science is. it's annoying. i personally think people should keep their spiritual beliefs to themselves unless asked to share them... i dont care if you're an atheist, hindu, or christian. but i cant tell you not to share them. im just saying, if you feel compelled to spout off about those beliefs (and yes, a lot of it is based on poor communication) then dont be offended or surprised when people take shots back. in other words, if you hop in and start saying jesus is a savior and you should all believe that and it's crazy that some people don't, dont act like you're being unfairly targeted when people ask you to defend those beliefs or insult you becos they feel their beliefs are perfectly sane and are offended by your implication that it's crazy to believe jesus was not god.

i'm glad we can come to an agreement... thanks for your input soulsinging, i will learn from this

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

im equal opportunity. im just as annoyed by atheists who go round preaching about how stupid religion is and how infallible science is. it's annoying. i personally think people should keep their spiritual beliefs to themselves unless asked to share them... i dont care if you're an atheist, hindu, or christian. but i cant tell you not to share them. im just saying, if you feel compelled to spout off about those beliefs (and yes, a lot of it is based on poor communication) then dont be offended or surprised when people take shots back. in other words, if you hop in and start saying jesus is a savior and you should all believe that and it's crazy that some people don't, dont act like you're being unfairly targeted when people ask you to defend those beliefs or insult you becos they feel their beliefs are perfectly sane and are offended by your implication that it's crazy to believe jesus was not god.

oh, fyi, not to preach but i don't believe jesus is god. not that it matters