The Rapture is not an Exit Strategy

Foxwell

As I left the gym this morning, I noticed this bumper sticker:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/foxwell2000/rapture.jpg

It read: "THE RAPTURE IS NOT AN EXIT STRATEGY"

Normally, I don't put much credence in bumper sticker philosophy, but this one caught my attention in that it seemed to me to be somewhat ambivalent.

My instinct was to interpret this as an anti-Christian/anti-Bush statement because, when I hear "exit strategy" associated with fundamental Christianity, my mind naturally drifts towards 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Yet, at the same time, could this not also be a word of warning from one Christian to her fellows. A warning that it isn't good enough to wrap yourself in a Christian-cocoon and wait for Jesus to tap you on the shoulder; a presage that we shouldn't be looking for an exit but rather creating a paradise here on Earth.

I'm interested to hear what you folks think.

Me? I think Jesus Christ was a helluva a guy and should be honored and respected along with Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna, Jah, and Alan Thicke.

But is Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior? No.

So, I'm crossing my fingers (yes, I understand the historical irony of a heathen crossing his fingers) that the Rapture is more metaphor than reality.

Abuskedti

The rapture is not an exit strategy.. I agree

Cosmo

I'm with you, Foxwell.
My verdict on Jesus as a Saviour is still out... but, I love His teachings and try my hardest to follow them. The logic in me just cannot excuse that whole, ressurrection and return thing. If they actually DO find the remains of Jesus and proves He was as human as the rest of us... it isn't going to sway me one inch regarding His teachings. I will still try to follow.
I don't expect to get called up in this 'Rapture' because i've done bad things in this life. But, I am hoping that Jesus and God are not the narcisstic, judgemental jerks that many Christians lead me to believe They are. I am hoping that They judge me on who I am, not what I do or believe and understand that having questions that have gone unanswered my entire life... isn't so wrong.

Ahnimus

I thought the rapture occurred in 1974.

norm

I thought this was a thread about Blondie. Sorry. Carry on.

Foxwell

cutback wrote:

I thought this was a thread about Blondie. Sorry. Carry on.

That's funny...I hadn't gone that direction, yet. Thanks for the cutback, Cutback.

MakingWaves

Cosmo wrote:

I am hoping that They judge me on who I am, not what I do or believe and understand that having questions that have gone unanswered my entire life... isn't so wrong.

But isn't what you do or believe what makes you you? I don't see what else you can be judged on.

deadnothingbetter

Cosmo wrote:

I'm with you, Foxwell.
My verdict on Jesus as a Saviour is still out... but, I love His teachings and try my hardest to follow them. The logic in me just cannot excuse that whole, ressurrection and return thing. If they actually DO find the remains of Jesus and proves He was as human as the rest of us... it isn't going to sway me one inch regarding His teachings. I will still try to follow.
I don't expect to get called up in this 'Rapture' because i've done bad things in this life. But, I am hoping that Jesus and God are not the narcisstic, judgemental jerks that many Christians lead me to believe They are. I am hoping that They judge me on who I am, not what I do or believe and understand that having questions that have gone unanswered my entire life... isn't so wrong.

i admire this a lot. but God doesn't judge you on who you are or what you do. I'm sorry I'm going into this and it might sound as if i'm preaching to you. I've had conversations with you and not all of them turn out too great but all the while I'm giving you an honest and sincere answer. The truth is not even our good deeds get us into heaven. Ghandi and all those other great and honorable men were just like you and I. Read Ecclesiastes chapter 3. and you'll see why. Goodness is something preprogrammed in our minds. It's a gift of God to us. The truth is that in this life although it be chaotic, frustrating, confusing, etc we were not meant to life in this life. sort of like Switchfoot's song, "We were meant to live for so much more" (i really hate this song but this is actually what he is talking about) The reason why I believe Christ is my Savior is because he is just that. Something that Ghandi has not done for me. He only took a stand for the oppressions of his people and I believe to some extent he is a Saviour. but savior for the lack of a better term. He is not the Savior for the universe in essence that he cannot convict me of this greater power that is bigger than me. This is what Christ did. Putting all religion aside, church doctrines, denominations and fundamental christians why is it so hard to accept this? something that I've always tried to understand time and time again.

born to play drums

I'm with you 100% on what u said FOXWELL

deadnothingbetter

Foxwell wrote:

As I left the gym this morning, I noticed this bumper sticker:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/foxwell2000/rapture.jpg

It read: "THE RAPTURE IS NOT AN EXIT STRATEGY"

Normally, I don't put much credence in bumper sticker philosophy, but this one caught my attention in that it seemed to me to be somewhat ambivalent.

My instinct was to interpret this as an anti-Christian/anti-Bush statement because, when I hear "exit strategy" associated with fundamental Christianity, my mind naturally drifts towards 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Yet, at the same time, could this not also be a word of warning from one Christian to her fellows. A warning that it isn't good enough to wrap yourself in a Christian-cocoon and wait for Jesus to tap you on the shoulder; a presage that we shouldn't be looking for an exit but rather creating a paradise here on Earth.

I'm interested to hear what you folks think.

Me? I think Jesus Christ was a helluva a guy and should be honored and respected along with Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna, Jah, and Alan Thicke.

But is Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior? No.

So, I'm crossing my fingers (yes, I understand the historical irony of a heathen crossing his fingers) that the Rapture is more metaphor than reality.

Well, first of all the Bible never mentions rapture. All this started at the turning of the Protestants and the Great Awakening era. The Bible only speaks about a lifting up of the church and doesn't mention it very often. Do I take it as an exit strategy??? No. Because in my faith, or at least what the Bible tells me, I already am in a heavenly place. So, yeah, sort of like a paradise here on earth. But would you believe with me if I told you how we could have a paradise here on earth if I told you??? I don't think so.

MakingWaves

deadnothingbetter wrote:

i admire this a lot. but God doesn't judge you on who you are or what you do.

Why would God not judge you on what you do? "What you do unto others you do unto me."

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

i admire this a lot. but God doesn't judge you on who you are or what you do.

that's a damn shame.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

I'm sorry I'm going into this and it might sound as if i'm preaching to you. I've had conversations with you and not all of them turn out too great but all the while I'm giving you an honest and sincere answer. The truth is not even our good deeds get us into heaven. Ghandi and all those other great and honorable men were just like you and I. Read Ecclesiastes chapter 3. and you'll see why. Goodness is something preprogrammed in our minds. It's a gift of God to us. The truth is that in this life although it be chaotic, frustrating, confusing, etc we were not meant to life in this life. sort of like Switchfoot's song, "We were meant to live for so much more" (i really hate this song but this is actually what he is talking about) The reason why I believe Christ is my Savior is because he is just that. Something that Ghandi has not done for me. He only took a stand for the oppressions of his people and I believe to some extent he is a Saviour. but savior for the lack of a better term. He is not the Savior for the universe in essence that he cannot convict me of this greater power that is bigger than me. This is what Christ did. Putting all religion aside, church doctrines, denominations and fundamental christians why is it so hard to accept this? something that I've always tried to understand time and time again.

so according to the first statement, ghandi is going to hell?

Bu2

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=209084

Cosmo

MakingWaves wrote:

But isn't what you do or believe what makes you you? I don't see what else you can be judged on.

...
No. Is a soldier that kills, a murderer? Is someone who believes she is doing good and drowns her children so they'll be with Jesus doing good? No.
You are who you are and THAT is what drives to do the things you do... not the other way around. You can be a drug dealer or a pimp and give money to your church... is that good?
Who you are leads you towards where you are going. For example: If you give to a charity just to get a tax break... you are not charitable. Charity comes from within and you do it unconditionally. Sure, you'll take the tax break because it is there, but the tax break should not be the reason why you give... right?
That's all I'm saying. I am who I am and that is how I want to be viewed and judged. And I don't expect anyone else to believe this... they can believe whatever they want to. I don't apply my beliefs to anyone else and I don't take on the beliefs of others. I'm on this road, alone... that's the way I came in... that's the way I'm going out.

Cosmo

deadnothingbetter wrote:

i admire this a lot. but God doesn't judge you on who you are or what you do. I'm sorry I'm going into this and it might sound as if i'm preaching to you. I've had conversations with you and not all of them turn out too great but all the while I'm giving you an honest and sincere answer. The truth is not even our good deeds get us into heaven. Ghandi and all those other great and honorable men were just like you and I. Read Ecclesiastes chapter 3. and you'll see why. Goodness is something preprogrammed in our minds. It's a gift of God to us. The truth is that in this life although it be chaotic, frustrating, confusing, etc we were not meant to life in this life. sort of like Switchfoot's song, "We were meant to live for so much more" (i really hate this song but this is actually what he is talking about) The reason why I believe Christ is my Savior is because he is just that. Something that Ghandi has not done for me. He only took a stand for the oppressions of his people and I believe to some extent he is a Saviour. but savior for the lack of a better term. He is not the Savior for the universe in essence that he cannot convict me of this greater power that is bigger than me. This is what Christ did. Putting all religion aside, church doctrines, denominations and fundamental christians why is it so hard to accept this? something that I've always tried to understand time and time again.

...
Question: "Goodness is something preprogrammed in our minds. It's a gift of God to us."
If it's pre-programmed in us all... and some of us choose to ignore it... isn't that part of the judgement?
And if this is just a stopping point... what's the point of us being here?
...
I'll read the Chapter you have referenced and seee if I can find the answers there.
peace...

deadnothingbetter

MakingWaves wrote:

Why would God not judge you on what you do? "What you do unto others you do unto me."

"what you do unto others you do unto me" a judgement??? explain.

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

that's a damn shame.

listen, if he were to judge me right now, i'd be consumed into particles of ashes...



so according to the first statement, ghandi is going to hell?[/quote]i know where you are going with this, but this is not a subject that I can go into. my faith doesn't allow me. if Ghandi accepted Jesus Christ or not, it's not my business

deadnothingbetter

Cosmo wrote:

...
Question: "Goodness is something preprogrammed in our minds. It's a gift of God to us."
If it's pre-programmed in us all... and some of us choose to ignore it... isn't that part of the judgement?
And if this is just a stopping point... what's the point of us being here?
...
I'll read the Chapter you have referenced and seee if I can find the answers there.
peace...

oh, man i'm trying to keep up with this cause i'm listening to the spurs on the radio... and i'm a big ginobili fan. kings and spurs tied at 77

there are two men. the old man and the new man. adam is the old and jesus is the new. if this is too much doctrine for you i respect if you stop reading. we as human beings have inherited the natural dna of the old man, adam. see, this nature of ours works like a virus, no matter how much you try to get rid of it, it doesn't go away. Paul says it this way, the things that I want to do I don't do and the things that I don't want to do I do. It's like that for all of us, whether a christian or not. We as christians call this a sin. Sin is not who we are. Sin is, what a friend once called, a false identity. And this is what gets in our way when it comes to knowing who we truly are. Now, the goodness inside of us is like a reminder that tells us that we are from a greater force, that is God. It's no wonder why He said, "let us create men in our image." But sin is what has corrupted our way and it's sin what causes us to distort our own identity. Thus, we have chaos, wars, deceipt and all those negative things that cause bitter feelings in our lives. It's not the act that God judges you by. There are so many scriptures that speak of this, Galations says, "not by works lest any man should boast, but by grace."

And it is this grace that Paul goes on to say: 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

so to answer your questions, is this a stopping point? No.

If it's preprogrammed why do we choose to ignore it? Because of sin.

What's the point of us being here? To share in God's glory.

Oh, Spurs win 100-93 and Ginobili scores 16 in the fourth quarter. Ginobili is so badass!

gimmesometruth27

so wait, let me get this straight...the exit strategy the dems are going to propose next week is not the rapture??

Trau

Why should Muhammad be honored? Do you not care that he was a warlord?

danphxariz

lol, I just thought it was a reference to some evangelicals who think that the US should try to bring about the rapture through its middle east policy. I think the point the bumper sticker makes is basically, "stop trying to cause the rapture, and look for another way to end this." That's all.