''You can't be catholic and pro-abortion.''

macgyver06
macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
edited January 2007 in A Moving Train
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/04/female.speaker.ap/index.html

why is it that the pro-life side still can't grasp that you can be pro choice and not like abortion
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • qtegirl
    qtegirl Posts: 321
    The placard that reads ''You can't be catholic and pro-abortion'' is technically right. The Vatican forbids abortion during any time of the pregnancy. They also don't approve of birth control.

    Personally, I think it's just a ploy to have lots of little catholic children running around.

    That's one among many reasons that I'm not catholic anymore. Thankfully, there are progressive forces within the catholic church that would like to have these rules changed. However, I don't see it happening as long as the church remains an archaic, patriarcal hierarchy.
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    macgyver06 wrote:
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/04/female.speaker.ap/index.html

    why is it that the pro-life side still can't grasp that you can be pro choice and not like abortion
    What they can't seem to grasp is that you can indeed be Catholic and opposed to abortion, while simultaneously thinking that it would be wrong to attempt to force your presonal religious beliefs on your constituents.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    macgyver06 wrote:
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/04/female.speaker.ap/index.html

    why is it that the pro-life side still can't grasp that you can be pro choice and not like abortion

    We're all pro-choice. I just don't happen to believe that abortion should be one of the choices.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Matt8townsend
    Matt8townsend Posts: 112
    Personally, I think it's just a ploy to have lots of little catholic children running around.


    Well the Catholic religion is one that puritanically abhors the notion of anybody actually enjoying sex (hence their ultimate reverence for the 'virgin' Mary), so its more like a ploy to try and prevent people from doing it in the first place I think.

    And whether you can be a Catholic and pro abortion is a pretty mute point nowadays anyway - Biblical scripture and Catholic dogma has been demonstrated to be so mind numbingly contradictory and out of touch with contemporary morality that every individual who professes loyalty to any religion essentially makes their own choice over which particular teachings to follow and which to ignore anyway - why should the issue of abortion be any different.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    I'm Catholic and I'm pro-life, obviously. I really can't understand why someone would be Catholic and pro-choice even though many of you believe that being pro-choice does not make you "pro-abortion."

    Even allowing for the possibility of an abortion (for any reason other than to save the life of the mother) is morally reprehensible to the Church. The simple fact is, the Bible teaches that all human life has inherent value, no matter what stage of development. The teaching of the Catholic Church will not change because some "progressive forces" deem that there should be change. Morality does not change with time - it is always the same.

    That's what I find funny about this issue. 100 years ago, it would have been majorly frowned upon (and illegal) for a woman to abort her child. The Catholic Church had no problem with its position among society 100 years ago. Today, we now need "progressive forces" in the Church to change its mind because abortion IS supported in society today.

    Does that change in society necessarily reflect a correction of moral attitudes? Or is abortion to be just as frowned upon today as it was in 1906?

    I find abortion to be repulsive, barbaric, and violent. It is just as disgusting in 2006 as it was in 1906. To treat a human life like that, one must either be insane or ignorant of the actual procedure.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
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  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Matt8townsend wrote:
    Well the Catholic religion is one that puritanically abhors the notion of anybody actually enjoying sex (hence their ultimate reverence for the 'virgin' Mary), so its more like a ploy to try and prevent people from doing it in the first place I think.

    Well.. you can have sex, but only with your married partner (opposite sex, obviously) and only if it is for the purpose of procreating (thus you may not use contraception)..... Yep, there are lots of little catholics, children of large families in the poorest parts of the world!
  • JaneNY
    JaneNY Posts: 4,438
    Isn't there a contradiction though? Doesn't the catholic church believe that once a catholic, always a catholic, whether you acknowledge it or not?
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  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    JaneNY wrote:
    Isn't there a contradiction though? Doesn't the catholic church believe that once a catholic, always a catholic, whether you acknowledge it or not?
    unless you're excommunicated...
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    The teaching of the Catholic Church will not change because some "progressive forces" deem that there should be change.

    But it has..... one of the big changes in the teaching of the catholic church is that of religious freedom. The catholic church used to condemn religious freedom, but this is no longer so.. it is now accepted. This is only one example. Though slow and painful, the catholic church's teachings do progress with time. It is inevitable.
  • qtegirl
    qtegirl Posts: 321
    JaneNY wrote:
    Isn't there a contradiction though? Doesn't the catholic church believe that once a catholic, always a catholic, whether you acknowledge it or not?
    I thought that was wrong, but I guess you're right.
    From Wikipedia:

    According to canon law, one becomes a member of the Catholic Church by being baptized in the Church or by being received into the Church (by making a profession of faith, if already baptized).[24]

    "To break on one's own initiative the juridical bond with the Church, a formal act is required in writing before one's local Ordinary or parish priest, who is to judge the genuineness of the act of apostasy, heresy or schism; without this formal act of defection, "heresy (whether formal or material), schism and apostasy do not in themselves constitute a formal act of defection, if they are not externally concretized and manifested to the ecclesistical authority in the required manner."[25] Those who do not take this step are presumed to be still linked with the Catholic Church and thus bound by ecclesiastical laws. Someone who renounces membership may later be received again into the Catholic Church, after making a profession of faith, or in occult cases (lack of formal act) going to confession."

    Which sucks for me... they still have my number!
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    I'm Catholic and I'm pro-life, obviously. I really can't understand why someone would be Catholic and pro-choice even though many of you believe that being pro-choice does not make you "pro-abortion."

    Even allowing for the possibility of an abortion (for any reason other than to save the life of the mother) is morally reprehensible to the Church. The simple fact is, the Bible teaches that all human life has inherent value, no matter what stage of development. The teaching of the Catholic Church will not change because some "progressive forces" deem that there should be change. Morality does not change with time - it is always the same.

    That's what I find funny about this issue. 100 years ago, it would have been majorly frowned upon (and illegal) for a woman to abort her child. The Catholic Church had no problem with its position among society 100 years ago. Today, we now need "progressive forces" in the Church to change its mind because abortion IS supported in society today.

    Does that change in society necessarily reflect a correction of moral attitudes? Or is abortion to be just as frowned upon today as it was in 1906?

    I find abortion to be repulsive, barbaric, and violent. It is just as disgusting in 2006 as it was in 1906. To treat a human life like that, one must either be insane or ignorant of the actual procedure.

    first of all, i take it you are antiwar and anti-capital punishment, right? seeing that the bible teaches the inherent value of human life.

    also, abortion was 'legal' over a hundred years ago. it was made illegal in 1880, interestingly around the time the women's movement was getting some attention.
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  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    qtegirl wrote:
    I thought that was wrong, but I guess you're right.
    From Wikipedia:

    According to canon law, one becomes a member of the Catholic Church by being baptized in the Church or by being received into the Church (by making a profession of faith, if already baptized).[24]

    "To break on one's own initiative the juridical bond with the Church, a formal act is required in writing before one's local Ordinary or parish priest, who is to judge the genuineness of the act of apostasy, heresy or schism; without this formal act of defection, "heresy (whether formal or material), schism and apostasy do not in themselves constitute a formal act of defection, if they are not externally concretized and manifested to the ecclesistical authority in the required manner."[25] Those who do not take this step are presumed to be still linked with the Catholic Church and thus bound by ecclesiastical laws. Someone who renounces membership may later be received again into the Catholic Church, after making a profession of faith, or in occult cases (lack of formal act) going to confession."

    Which sucks for me... they still have my number!
    That's how they're able to say crap like "there are a billion Catholics worldwide." How many millions of those do you suppose are people just like you who want nothing at all to do with the Catholic church?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    hippiemom wrote:
    That's how they're able to say crap like "there are a billion Catholics worldwide." How many millions of those do you suppose are people just like you who want nothing at all to do with the Catholic church?
    This links to the thread about 'stepping out of the church'...
  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    redrock wrote:
    This links to the thread about 'stepping out of the church'...


    No. This does: http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=227790
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    No. This does: http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=227790
    :rolleyes:

    :D OK... should have also posted the link....
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    know1 wrote:
    We're all pro-choice. I just don't happen to believe that abortion should be one of the choices.
    ...
    Then you are not Pro-Choice.
    I am Pro-Choice but, i hope the woman chooses not to have an abortion and seeks an alternative path to take. I am not one to limit the legal options open to her, therefore, making the choice for her.
    I believe that education is the key... but, that costs money and money is more important than abortion.
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  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    redrock wrote:
    :rolleyes:

    :D OK... should have also posted the link....

    I should have put the "wink" face on their. I did not care whether the link was on or not. I just thought I was being funny. My sense of humor is so-so at best.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Then you are not Pro-Choice.
    I am Pro-Choice but, i hope the woman chooses not to have an abortion and seeks an alternative path to take. I am not one to limit the legal options open to her, therefore, making the choice for her.
    I believe that education is the key... but, that costs money and money is more important than abortion.

    Same here. I would definetly encourage the woman to pursue a different course, but in the end it is her body and her decision to make not mine. Then again it doesn't really matter because I'm not a Christian so there for no conflict of interest.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    I should have put the "wink" face on their. I did not care whether the link was on or not. I just thought I was being funny. My sense of humor is so-so at best.

    aahhh.. but I did put my little rolly eyes and my big smile... I understood your jest! :)
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    know1 wrote:
    We're all pro-choice. I just don't happen to believe that abortion should be one of the choices.


    Abortion is a medical procedure and should not be legislated by our government.

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