President misquoted over gays in Iran: aide

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

spiral out wrote:

Your right here roland.

There culture will evolve in it's own time.

Liberal ivory tower elitism at its finest. their tiny ape brains will evolve and come around eventually, right? In he meantime, don't say anything bad about their president 'cuz that means you're a Bush loving, bombdropping knuckledragger who loves killing people.

spiral out

MrSmith wrote:

Liberal ivory tower elitism at its finest. their tiny ape brains will evolve and come around eventually, right? In he meantime, don't say anything bad about their president 'cuz that means you're a Bush loving, bombdropping knuckledragger who loves killing people.

You don't half post a load of crap.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

I'll treat Iranian politicians as i do anyone else. when I think their culture is fucked (in some areas), I'll let it be known. I won't wait for their culture to evolve.

spiral out

MrSmith wrote:

I'll treat Iranian politicians as i do anyone else. when I think their culture is fucked (in some areas), I'll let it be known. I won't wait for their culture to evolve.

Well our culture needs evolve to, our culture is also fucked in some areas. So why don't you treat it with equal contempt. Or indeed do something about it.

But i kind of get the feeling that you think you are the best and everyone should act like you.

You live up to your namesake.

even flow?

MrSmith wrote:

Does anyone else think that Roland is some kind of gov't plant, put on the internet to try to make people who oppose Bush look like fools?

You mean the answer to jlew? Then yes!

jlew24asu

even flow? wrote:

You mean the answer to jlew? Then yes!

but I dont even like bush

RolandTD20Kdrummer

even flow? wrote:

You mean the answer to jlew? Then yes!

My dept has been monitoring your internet use for a long time now.

Thanks for all the good porn links...

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

spiral out wrote:

Well our culture needs evolve to, our culture is also fucked in some areas. So why don't you treat it with equal contempt. Or indeed do something about it.

the other 90% of posters do a pretty good job of pointing out Americas fuckups, so I don't feel as much of a need. But maybe i should. Bush's failed administration is pretty much obvious at this point, considering he only has about 30% support, he hasn't passed anything through congress in over a year, and is probably in the alltime bottom 3 of US presidents.

NCfan

baraka wrote:

I'll probably take some heat from some of my fellow left-leaning posters, but I feel the need to address this as I have been seeing this trend in several threads.

I feel that US foreign policy is very objectionable and it continues the cycle of violence we see throughout the world. I love the principles my country was founded on and I feel it is my country's responsibility to live up to a particular standard. Lately, it seems to me we have failed time and time again. This is not to say that my country has not done and accomplished wonderful things.

That said, I have a problem uplifting questionable men(or women or countries) in order to make the US look 'bad'. It frankly is not needed as each reprehensible action stands on its own. Is is possible that we can express disdain for US foreign policy and the current administration and also feel that Ahmadinejad is 'not a very nice guy'?

Wow, I'd actually keep up with these threads and post more around here if there were more people like you on these boards. Sadly, I don't really come around anymore because most posters are of the "Roland" type, and it's just not worth it. And you don't learn anything from the other side except how to bring up irrelevant things or slander those you with whom you disagree out of desperation or lack of an intellectual rebuttal.

I know this message board isn't indicative of the left as a whole, but it sure does represent the worst it has to offer. Most of the posters on here would do more for their cause by keeping to themselves rather than trying to defend them in the most bankrupt ways.

But I guess you guys need a place to express your views too, so I should probably just find another message board to exchange ideas. It just sucks though becuase I really dig the band...

RolandTD20Kdrummer

baraka wrote:

I'll probably take some heat from some of my fellow left-leaning posters, but I feel the need to address this as I have been seeing this trend in several threads.

I feel that US foreign policy is very objectionable and it continues the cycle of violence we see throughout the world. I love the principles my country was founded on and I feel it is my country's responsibility to live up to a particular standard. Lately, it seems to me we have failed time and time again. This is not to say that my country has not done and accomplished wonderful things.

That said, I have a problem uplifting questionable men(or women or countries) in order to make the US look 'bad'. It frankly is not needed as each reprehensible action stands on its own. Is is possible that we can express disdain for US foreign policy and the current administration and also feel that Ahmadinejad is 'not a very nice guy'?

That's fine. Who is elevating one over the other? Certainly not I.

Attempting to equalize somewhat perhaps. That's fair and appropriate. I'd like to know when exactly in the past 6 years did America become so high and mighty as human beings in their views towards other countries?

One could argue US foreign policy has become quite a disaster.

baraka

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

That's fine. Who is elevating one over the other? Certainly not I.

Attempting to equalize somewhat perhaps. That's fair and appropriate. I'd like to know when exactly in the past 6 years did America become so high and mighty as human beings in their views towards other countries?

One could argue US foreign policy has become quite a disaster.

Roland, it is my opinion that, right now, with our current foreign policy (and past policies), the US has not taken the moral high road. I share your frustrations in that regard.

I just don't think it helps our cause to uplift a man such as Ahmadinejad or make excuses for him. It would be intellectually dishonest for me to state, 'oh, Ahmadinehad was misquoted or misunderstood' when it is very clear where that man stands on many issues. Does that give the US the moral high ground concerning their foreign policy? Absolutely not! Just because one believes Ahmadinejad to be 'not a nice person', that does NOT absolve the US of their failings.

mammasan

baraka wrote:

Roland, it is my opinion that, right now, with our current foreign policy (and past policies), the US has not taken the moral high road. I share your frustrations in that regard.

I just don't think it helps our cause to uplift a man such as Ahmadinejad or make excuses for him. It would be intellectually dishonest for me to state, 'oh, Ahmadinehad was misquoted or misunderstood' when it is very clear where that man stands on many issues. Does that give the US the moral high ground concerning their foreign policy? Absolutely not! Just because one believes Ahmadinejad to be 'not a nice person', that does NOT absolve the US of their failings.

Great post. I share your feelings on this matter. It seems that many left leaning individual have been doing what you stated. We do not need to make a man like Ahmadinejad into a hero in order to criticize American foreign policy.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

baraka wrote:

Roland, it is my opinion that, right now, with our current foreign policy (and past policies), the US has not taken the moral high road. I share your frustrations in that regard.

I just don't think it helps our cause to uplift a man such as Ahmadinejad or make excuses for him. It would be intellectually dishonest for me to state, 'oh, Ahmadinehad was misquoted or misunderstood' when it is very clear where that man stands on many issues. Does that give the US the moral high ground concerning their foreign policy? Absolutely not! Just because one believes Ahmadinejad to be 'not a nice person', that does NOT absolve the US of their failings.

I'm not making excuses, just identifying some of the blatant propaganda being spun around heading into this new Iran war.

norm

baraka wrote:

Roland, it is my opinion that, right now, with our current foreign policy (and past policies), the US has not taken the moral high road. I share your frustrations in that regard.

I just don't think it helps our cause to uplift a man such as Ahmadinejad or make excuses for him. It would be intellectually dishonest for me to state, 'oh, Ahmadinehad was misquoted or misunderstood' when it is very clear where that man stands on many issues. Does that give the US the moral high ground concerning their foreign policy? Absolutely not! Just because one believes Ahmadinejad to be 'not a nice person', that does NOT absolve the US of their failings.

mammasan wrote:

Great post. I share your feelings on this matter. It seems that many left leaning individual have been doing what you stated. We do not need to make a man like Ahmadinejad into a hero in order to criticize American foreign policy.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

I do not believe I've promoted Ahmadinejad anywhere in this thread.

mammasan

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I do not believe I've promoted Ahmadinejad anywhere in this thread.

You may not have promoted him but when asked about the fact that Iran executes homosexuals your first response was to criticize the way the US treated blacks in the past.

The US is guilty of some pretty fucked up shit even in this day and age but to try to compare the US to Iran is absolutely ridiculous.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

mammasan wrote:

You may not have promoted him but when asked about the fact that Iran executes homosexuals your first response was to criticize the way the US treated blacks in the past.

The US is guilty of some pretty fucked up shit even in this day and age but to try to compare the US to Iran is absolutely ridiculous.

I did make references to the fact that they are indeed different. In fact I said exactly that a couple times and made comparisons to apples and oranges.

You see, the western media is in the process right now of spinning a significant amount of hatred towards Iran with hopes of passing off another war by belittling and demonizing the entire situation.

The saying let he who is without guilt cast the first stone comes to mind

Just casting some light on reality.

mammasan

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I did make references to the fact that they are indeed different. In fact I said exactly that a couple times and made comparisons to apples and oranges.

You see, the western media is in the process right now of spinning a significant amount of hatred towards Iran with hopes of passing off another war by belittling and demonizing the entire situation.

The saying let he who is without guilt cast the first stone comes to mind

Just casting some light on reality.

I agree that the media is using anything it can to demonize him, but guess what the man isn't exactly a saint. Should he be criticized for his words and his actions, Yes. Are his words and his actions worthy of us taking military action against him, NO.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

mammasan wrote:

I agree that the media is using anything it can to demonize him, but guess what the man isn't exactly a saint. Should he be criticized for his words and his actions, Yes. Are his words and his actions worthy of us taking military action against him, NO.

If he actually said wipe Israel off the map etc... by all means. So far all I hear this guy talk about is peace, and wanting to live in peace, and have more discussions and talks. They were ready to ban the guy from speaking at Columbia. Not only that they smeared him before he got a chance to speak even (brutal!) Bush has also previously refused to communicate with the guy, when asked to initiate communication.

I have no affinity for the guy, it's just that I have less affinity for blatant misinformation with a hidden agenda behind it.

baraka

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I'm not making excuses, just identifying some of the blatant propaganda being spun around heading into this new Iran war.

Now this I agree with, Roland. Recently, the Senate passed (76-22, I think) a resolution branding Iran's Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization. To me, this appears to be a back-door way to declare war on Iran under the blanket of 'The War on Terror'. This concerns me greatly, as I do not support preemptive war. But Ahmadinejad...........you will not hear any words of support from me concerning him. I will, however, vehemently oppose any preemptive military action against Iran.