Breach in the wall made by Palestinians at Gaza

even flow?

farfromglorified wrote:

Israel was created because foolish people bought into guilt regarding the victimization of its people. Sound familiar?

I never thought this is what I would read from you.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. I guess the Jews need to realize they aren't, weren't and won't be the only people on this planet who are, were or about to be hard done by and get things for free. So they should be the first to get a grip on building walls around other forms of human lives.

theroachman

farfromglorified

Nice lets punish the children so the adults can prove they are right. And have you taken the time yet to actual read anything from the people who are currently living in hell?


http://www.totalcatholic.com/pages/news_pages/2401gazablockade.html

Gaza priest decries Israeli blockade

The Catholic priest in Hamas-controlled Gaza has described the situation in his parish as “almost as bad as hell” and condemned what he called “punishment until death”.


Mgr Manawel Musallam, speaking exclusively to The Universe on Wednesday, said: “Gaza is dying.


“This is not punishment for salvation. This is punishment for extermination. It is the punishment of a nation.”


The priest explained how thousands of people had escaped Palestine into Egypt when gunmen blew up part of the border wall at the Rafah crossing overnight on Tuesday. The exodus has taken place as a result of an ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip to combat rocket attacks on its territory.


Mgr Musallam explained: “People have gone to find food and employment [in Egypt]. There is no food here, no employment here. We have a lack of water and electricity.

“The situation is critical. Streets are covered with sewerage. I see the sick crying and dying.


“Our hospitals need electricity and medication but out of 3,700 parcels of supplies only nine were allowed in.”


Mgr Musallam said children in the Holy Family Catholic School had to walk to school as there was no fuel for transport. Pupils and teachers arrive dirty because they cannot wash as water has to be pumped into buildings using electricity.


“In our school canteen, we have to feed 700 pupils but have only enough food for 30 or 40,” he added. “The cook cannot find anything to give them to eat. With no electricity and no water there is very little you can cook. You cannot even make a loaf of bread.


“I see children crying in huge distress all day long. Two pupils in the school, aged nine and six, were wounded in the bombings. They are afraid and traumatised because of the bombardments and of the darkness at night.


“They cannot even go to the toilet at night. They wet their beds but there is no water to wash afterwards. People come here to ask for water and electricity because we have a generator. They come to cook and they come for a shower.”


The heads of churches in Jerusalem and the Holy Land have issued a strongly- worded statement urging the Israeli authorities to end the current blockade.


They condemned the situation as “illegal collective punishment, an immoral act in violation of the basic human and natural laws as well as international law that cannot be tolerated anymore”.


“The siege over Gaza should end now,” they added. “One-and-a-half million people are imprisoned and without proper food or medicine, 800,000 are without electricity.


“In the name of God, we urge the international community, President Bush and the leaders of Israel, to put an end to this suffering and call upon Israel to activate Prime Minister Salam Fayyad’s initiative for Palestinian responsibility of the borders, thus ensuring sufficient normal flow of medicine, food, fuel and goods to Gaza.”

farfromglorified

even flow? wrote:

I never thought this is what I would read from you.

Why?

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

The sum of two crimes is never justice.

farfromglorified

theroachman wrote:

farfromglorified

Nice lets punish the children so the adults can prove they are right.

You're either not listening to what I've said or don't understand it. I'm not justifying or attempting to justify the current Palestinian situation.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

I'm glad this was bumped

update: 500,000 may flood into Israel.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23111166-2703,00.html

could be hype...mabye not. In any even, it would be a huge development if it did happen.

theroachman

farfromglorified wrote:

You're either not listening to what I've said or don't understand it. I'm not justifying or attempting to justify the current Palestinian situation.

Sorry but your not reading what you are posting. You are expecting the Palestinians to just roll over. Such as when you imply Israeli settlements are not really acts of aggression. Destroying then paving over of a families farm is an act of war no different then a F16 carpet bombing a city in Lebanon. I really do not understand why you can not see the difference of scale or the desperation of the people of Palestine.

Peace can happen

It would be easy thing to do if the Israeli government were to have any recent history to show they can be honest negotiates. That is not going to happen as long a GW or any other Republican is president. Yes the US is the only county that can negotiate a peace even if you think it is not our problem.

But since we will never see this issue eye to eye then that is the way it will end

theroachman

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I'm glad this was bumped

update: 500,000 may flood into Israel.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23111166-2703,00.html

could be hype...mabye not. In any even, it would be a huge development if it did happen.

Your welcome

It is my opinion that people in the US have not seen what really is going on in the world outside of the safety of their homes. Till people here in the US, even those that understand the problem but still insist that the Palestinians are just as must to blame we will never see peace.

I also believe that if the US can actually do some good in this one corner of the world many of the other problems of the world will become more solvable even with out the help of the US. So really it is the responsibility of the US to do what is right. Demand the Government of Israel to go back to the negotiating table. Stop all transfer of US made arms to Israel. And start getting the medicine, food and water back into the occupied territories.


And I am not even going to go into the conspiracies about a peacefull Isreal and the end of the world jokes. Those are by sick folks who revel in war and death

RolandTD20Kdrummer

You can't just bulldoze peoples houses and forcefully evict people from their land.

Bad idea right there. Thats where the leg you stand on gets lost.

"chosen people" only highways? They'll kill you for driving on them..

Insane. All credibility gets lost on that one too.

Blowback?...yeah definitely.

expect it.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

theroachman wrote:

Your welcome

It is my opinion that people in the US have not seen what really is going on in the world outside of the safety of their homes. Till people here in the US, even those that understand the problem but still insist that the Palestinians are just as must to blame we will never see peace.

I also believe that if the US can actually do some good in this one corner of the world many of the other problems of the world will become more solvable even with out the help of the US. So really it is the responsibility of the US to do what is right. Demand the Government of Israel to go back to the negotiating table. Stop all transfer of US made arms to Israel. And start getting the medicine, food and water back into the occupied territories.


And I am not even going to go into the conspiracies about a peacefull Isreal and the end of the world jokes. Those are by sick folks who revel in war and death

Apparently the Palestinians are terrorists...so many terrorists it seems.

Israel is not though. Bit of a double standard.

Commy

there's a lot of apologists for Israel in this thread.


The palestinians are justifiably angered. Israel kills 3 palestinians for every Israeli that dies. Who struck first is irrelevent at this point (though you'll recal Israel didn't exist pre-1946, thats telling). Even more criminal is the coverage if the war. NBC, CBS, and ABC all have a very one-sided view of the situation, portraying Israel as the innocent, reporting on their deaths 185% of the time (they run multiple stories on the same casualties) while only reporting 50% of palestinian casualties. Add the dirt poor situation palestinians have found themselves in -thanks to Israeli tanks and bulldozers (happily supplied by US corporations)-to the situation and palestinians are justifiable angered.

And no one seems to remember the times that Israel has invaded Lebanon, thousands dead, mostily civilian. And weekly there are Israeli forays into Palestinian territories, tanks and special ops units, often unprovoked. It's slaughter on a large scale. This is what people are resisting, Israeli agression.

jlew24asu

Commy wrote:

there's a lot of apologists for Israel in this thread.

I think there are far more hamas apologists, yourself included, in this thread and on this board. its just that when people give equal blame to hamas and Israel people like you will claim they are pro Zionism. which simple isnt true.

Commy

jlew24asu wrote:

I think there are far more hamas apologists, yourself included, in this thread and on this board. its just that when people give equal blame to hamas and Israel people like you will claim they are pro Zionism. which simple isnt true.

I don't condone the violence, I simply said they have every right to be pissed off, which is true. Israel is the agressor in this conflict.

farfromglorified

theroachman wrote:

Sorry but your not reading what you are posting. You are expecting the Palestinians to just roll over.

Where did I say Palestinians should "just roll over"? I simply said they shouldn't condone actions on their side that they would see as wrong on the other side.

Such as when you imply Israeli settlements are not really acts of aggression.

Where did I say this? I simply said that's just one example of the aggression on both sides.

Peace can happen

Absolutely!

It would be easy thing to do if the Israeli government were to have any recent history to show they can be honest negotiates.

How can you say this and then leave out the Palestinian leadership? They too have shown themselves as dishonest.

That is not going to happen as long a GW or any other Republican is president. Yes the US is the only county that can negotiate a peace even if you think it is not our problem.

The only countries that can negotiate a peace treaty are Israel and Palestine, as they are the ones who will have to live by it.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

For every action the Palestinians take Israel commits a harsher one.

This rhetoric comes from their own mouths. This is their practice, this is what they do, and how they respond,

It's not equal any way you slice it.

I really don't understand how anyone can see it all as an equal situation and place blame as though it is, when it is anything but.

Boggles the mind for those who don't see who is the real aggressor here.

jeffbr

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

For every action the Palestinians take Israel commits a harsher one.

This rhetoric comes from their own mouths. This is their practice, this is what they do, and how they respond,

It's not equal any way you slice it.

I really don't understand how anyone can see it all as an equal situation and place blame as though it is, when it is anything but.

Boggles the mind for those who don't see who is the real aggressor here.

Firstly, the definition of aggressor is the party who attacks first. I think both have been aggressors at different times.

Secondly, your beef is that Israel hits harder than the Palastinians. That's life. If someone slaps me, I just might punch them. I certainly wouldn't constrain myself to retaliate in an equal way. I'd want to retaliate in a way that makes the aggressor not want to be the aggressor again. Wouldn't you?

That being said, I couldn't care less who wins there. I'm a big fan of letting all of those assholes go for it and let us know who wins. At that point we can establish trade and diplomatic relations with the winner. I think every part involved has their head up their ass.

jlew24asu

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

For every action the Palestinians take Israel commits a harsher one.

This rhetoric comes from their own mouths. This is their practice, this is what they do, and how they respond,

It's not equal any way you slice it.

I really don't understand how anyone can see it all as an equal situation and place blame as though it is, when it is anything but.

Boggles the mind for those who don't see who is the real aggressor here.

you are part of the problem.

Commy

jlew24asu wrote:

you are part of the problem.

If that's true (I dont' see how it can be) then most people are.


You think its ok for Israel to retaliate (or instigate, depending on the propaganda)


That gives them carte blanch, which you dont' have a problem with.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

jlew24asu wrote:

you are part of the problem.

Perhaps, but I am more part of a fair solution than part of the problem

jlew24asu

Commy wrote:

It that's true (I dont' see how it can be) then most people are.


You except that Israel can retaliate.


That gives them carte blanch and you think its justified.

I never said Israel can retaliate. never once. BOTH sides are at fault. and Hamas will never have peace until they admit Israel can exist. and Israel will never have peace as long as they build more settlements.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

jeffbr wrote:

Firstly, the definition of aggressor is the party who attacks first. I think both have been aggressors at different times.

Secondly, your beef is that Israel hits harder than the Palastinians. That's life. If someone slaps me, I just might punch them. I certainly wouldn't constrain myself to retaliate in an equal way. I'd want to retaliate in a way that makes the aggressor not want to be the aggressor again. Wouldn't you?

That being said, I couldn't care less who wins there. I'm a big fan of letting all of those assholes go for it and let us know who wins. At that point we can establish trade and diplomatic relations with the winner. I think every part involved has their head up their ass.

Well first you have to put it on the level that it's on. You're dealing with a dog and a you're a 6,5" 350 pound fighter carrying a club.

That's the analogy. Smash away...