there's a lot of apologists for Israel in this thread.
I think there are far more hamas apologists, yourself included, in this thread and on this board. its just that when people give equal blame to hamas and Israel people like you will claim they are pro Zionism. which simple isnt true.
I think there are far more hamas apologists, yourself included, in this thread and on this board. its just that when people give equal blame to hamas and Israel people like you will claim they are pro Zionism. which simple isnt true.
I don't condone the violence, I simply said they have every right to be pissed off, which is true. Israel is the agressor in this conflict.
Sorry but your not reading what you are posting. You are expecting the Palestinians to just roll over.
Where did I say Palestinians should "just roll over"? I simply said they shouldn't condone actions on their side that they would see as wrong on the other side.
Such as when you imply Israeli settlements are not really acts of aggression.
Where did I say this? I simply said that's just one example of the aggression on both sides.
Peace can happen
Absolutely!
It would be easy thing to do if the Israeli government were to have any recent history to show they can be honest negotiates.
How can you say this and then leave out the Palestinian leadership? They too have shown themselves as dishonest.
That is not going to happen as long a GW or any other Republican is president. Yes the US is the only county that can negotiate a peace even if you think it is not our problem.
The only countries that can negotiate a peace treaty are Israel and Palestine, as they are the ones who will have to live by it.
For every action the Palestinians take Israel commits a harsher one.
This rhetoric comes from their own mouths. This is their practice, this is what they do, and how they respond,
It's not equal any way you slice it.
I really don't understand how anyone can see it all as an equal situation and place blame as though it is, when it is anything but.
Boggles the mind for those who don't see who is the real aggressor here.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
For every action the Palestinians take Israel commits a harsher one.
This rhetoric comes from their own mouths. This is their practice, this is what they do, and how they respond,
It's not equal any way you slice it.
I really don't understand how anyone can see it all as an equal situation and place blame as though it is, when it is anything but.
Boggles the mind for those who don't see who is the real aggressor here.
Firstly, the definition of aggressor is the party who attacks first. I think both have been aggressors at different times.
Secondly, your beef is that Israel hits harder than the Palastinians. That's life. If someone slaps me, I just might punch them. I certainly wouldn't constrain myself to retaliate in an equal way. I'd want to retaliate in a way that makes the aggressor not want to be the aggressor again. Wouldn't you?
That being said, I couldn't care less who wins there. I'm a big fan of letting all of those assholes go for it and let us know who wins. At that point we can establish trade and diplomatic relations with the winner. I think every part involved has their head up their ass.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Perhaps, but I am more part of a fair solution than part of the problem
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
It that's true (I dont' see how it can be) then most people are.
You except that Israel can retaliate.
That gives them carte blanch and you think its justified.
I never said Israel can retaliate. never once. BOTH sides are at fault. and Hamas will never have peace until they admit Israel can exist. and Israel will never have peace as long as they build more settlements.
Firstly, the definition of aggressor is the party who attacks first. I think both have been aggressors at different times.
Secondly, your beef is that Israel hits harder than the Palastinians. That's life. If someone slaps me, I just might punch them. I certainly wouldn't constrain myself to retaliate in an equal way. I'd want to retaliate in a way that makes the aggressor not want to be the aggressor again. Wouldn't you?
That being said, I couldn't care less who wins there. I'm a big fan of letting all of those assholes go for it and let us know who wins. At that point we can establish trade and diplomatic relations with the winner. I think every part involved has their head up their ass.
Well first you have to put it on the level that it's on. You're dealing with a dog and a you're a 6,5" 350 pound fighter carrying a club.
That's the analogy. Smash away...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
you fully support hamas. that will never be a solution.
I support fairness and equality and place blame accordingly when it does not occur.
my bad..
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
If the stupid fucking dog bites me, then yes, he'll get a club to the head.
So you would kill a dog for biting you? How about your own dog?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I never said Israel can retaliate. never once. BOTH sides are at fault. and Hamas will never have peace until they admit Israel can exist. and Israel will never have peace as long as they build more settlements.
I agree, both sides have much to answer for. But when it comes to violence ISreal has the upper hand. They prefer to solve problems with tanks. It's their ace in the hole-thanks to US support. The PLO did kick Israel out of Lebanon (and got US marines out as well), but over all Israel can inflict more violence than any thousand suicide bombers.
Israel prefers violence, it is where they are strong.
So you would kill a dog for biting you? How about your own dog?
Now you're really starting to take your analogy far afield. If it was a dog that kept on coming, or wouldn't release after a couple of smacks, then yes, if I felt threatened I'd kill it. If it was my dog? Are you saying Palestinians are Israeli pets? I'm missing your point on the 2nd question. If it was my dog, it wouldn't bite me in the first place. So is your solution to give each Israeli a Palestinian for a pet? I don't get it.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Now you're really starting to take your analogy far afield. If it was a dog that kept on coming, or wouldn't release after a couple of smacks, then yes, if I felt threatened I'd kill it. If it was my dog? Are you saying Palestinians are Israeli pets? I'm missing your point on the 2nd question. If it was my dog, it wouldn't bite me in the first place. So is your solution to give each Israeli a Palestinian for a pet? I don't get it.
Well it's living in your house, and you've kicked it a lot. but forget it.... I know your answer regardless...
You either see it for what it is, or you don't
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I see it exactly for what it is. A clusterfuck where both sides are being stupid, and neither side will work for peace. You are the one who is only seeing one side of the conflict and have created good guys and bad guys out of the situation.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Before there can be peace all sides need to realize Israeli aggression is more to blame than anything. And peace, if that is the goal , cannot be attained until Israel decides to stop being the instigator.
I see it exactly for what it is. A clusterfuck where both sides are being stupid, and neither side will work for peace. You are the one who is only seeing one side of the conflict and have created good guys and bad guys out of the situation.
One side acts the other reacts. Bulldozing homes...evicting people from their land....let it sink in a bit...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Until there can be real peace all sides need to realize that both sides are to blame. Just as Israel instigates violence with its idiotic occupation, Hamas instigates by firing rockets just when it seems as if things quieted down. Both sides are assholes.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Exactly. Dipshits shoot rockets at Israel, Israel blows their shit up.
Both sides are guilty. Both sides instigate at various times.
There's no such thing as defending yourself in an aggressive occupation. At the outset, you are intruding from the get go.
Israel decided to flip the switch a decide it wanted the place for itself, then started leveling anything in it's path that protested.
What did they expect would happen?
duh...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Just roll over a little more, it's almost complete...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Before there can be peace all sides need to realize Israeli aggression is more to blame than anything. And peace, if that is the goal , cannot be attained until Israel decides to stop being the instigator.
how about one side agreeing that the other can exist?
how about one side agreeing that the other can exist?
And the other side agreeing that they won't try to steal all the land.
Simple as that.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Before there can be peace all sides need to realize Israeli aggression is more to blame than anything.
This is silly at best, vengeful at worst. In short, because of attitudes like this, you have war.
In reality, before there can be peace, all sides need to realize that the definition of peace is the absence of conflict and then to act accordingly.
"Realizing" (read blaming) one side is not a step towards peace. Peace stems from independence and blame is a highly dependent act. Peace will be found when both sides stop referring to the other, but rather only to themselves. When Israelis start talking about recognizing their own borders, when Palestinians start talking about preventing attacks and repraisals from their own territorty, and both sides start talking about healing the ideological schisms within their own populations, peace will be in short order.
And peace, if that is the goal , cannot be attained until Israel decides to stop being the instigator.
I cannot believe that this kind of statement is still being made. Of course Israel has been an instigator. But to imply, as this does, that Palestinians and other parties have not been instigators, is nothing short of insane. There have been so many instigations by both sides that finger pointing is laughable.
This topic is so blindly partisan, so ingrained, and so visceral, it's no surprise that so little progress is made.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I'm curious -- what is your solution to this problem? Do you want to give the land back to the British? Give it all to the existing Palestinian government? Use international forces to push both sides back to the 1967 borders? What specifically, in your mind, will lead to peace?
Comments
I think there are far more hamas apologists, yourself included, in this thread and on this board. its just that when people give equal blame to hamas and Israel people like you will claim they are pro Zionism. which simple isnt true.
Where did I say Palestinians should "just roll over"? I simply said they shouldn't condone actions on their side that they would see as wrong on the other side.
Where did I say this? I simply said that's just one example of the aggression on both sides.
Absolutely!
How can you say this and then leave out the Palestinian leadership? They too have shown themselves as dishonest.
The only countries that can negotiate a peace treaty are Israel and Palestine, as they are the ones who will have to live by it.
This rhetoric comes from their own mouths. This is their practice, this is what they do, and how they respond,
It's not equal any way you slice it.
I really don't understand how anyone can see it all as an equal situation and place blame as though it is, when it is anything but.
Boggles the mind for those who don't see who is the real aggressor here.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Firstly, the definition of aggressor is the party who attacks first. I think both have been aggressors at different times.
Secondly, your beef is that Israel hits harder than the Palastinians. That's life. If someone slaps me, I just might punch them. I certainly wouldn't constrain myself to retaliate in an equal way. I'd want to retaliate in a way that makes the aggressor not want to be the aggressor again. Wouldn't you?
That being said, I couldn't care less who wins there. I'm a big fan of letting all of those assholes go for it and let us know who wins. At that point we can establish trade and diplomatic relations with the winner. I think every part involved has their head up their ass.
You think its ok for Israel to retaliate (or instigate, depending on the propaganda)
That gives them carte blanch, which you dont' have a problem with.
Perhaps, but I am more part of a fair solution than part of the problem
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I never said Israel can retaliate. never once. BOTH sides are at fault. and Hamas will never have peace until they admit Israel can exist. and Israel will never have peace as long as they build more settlements.
Well first you have to put it on the level that it's on. You're dealing with a dog and a you're a 6,5" 350 pound fighter carrying a club.
That's the analogy. Smash away...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
you fully support hamas. that will never be a solution.
If the stupid fucking dog bites me, then yes, he'll get a club to the head.
I support fairness and equality and place blame accordingly when it does not occur.
my bad..
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
So you would kill a dog for biting you? How about your own dog?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I agree, both sides have much to answer for. But when it comes to violence ISreal has the upper hand. They prefer to solve problems with tanks. It's their ace in the hole-thanks to US support. The PLO did kick Israel out of Lebanon (and got US marines out as well), but over all Israel can inflict more violence than any thousand suicide bombers.
Israel prefers violence, it is where they are strong.
Now you're really starting to take your analogy far afield. If it was a dog that kept on coming, or wouldn't release after a couple of smacks, then yes, if I felt threatened I'd kill it. If it was my dog? Are you saying Palestinians are Israeli pets? I'm missing your point on the 2nd question. If it was my dog, it wouldn't bite me in the first place. So is your solution to give each Israeli a Palestinian for a pet? I don't get it.
Well it's living in your house, and you've kicked it a lot. but forget it.... I know your answer regardless...
You either see it for what it is, or you don't
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I see it exactly for what it is. A clusterfuck where both sides are being stupid, and neither side will work for peace. You are the one who is only seeing one side of the conflict and have created good guys and bad guys out of the situation.
One side acts the other reacts. Bulldozing homes...evicting people from their land....let it sink in a bit...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Exactly. Dipshits shoot rockets at Israel, Israel blows their shit up.
Both sides are guilty. Both sides instigate at various times.
There's no such thing as defending yourself in an aggressive occupation. At the outset, you are intruding from the get go.
Israel decided to flip the switch a decide it wanted the place for itself, then started leveling anything in it's path that protested.
What did they expect would happen?
duh...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://tmh.floonet.net/graphics/map366.gif
1946 - 2000
http://www.friendsofpalestine.org.au/images/Palestine%20Map%20Big.jpg
Just roll over a little more, it's almost complete...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
how about one side agreeing that the other can exist?
And the other side agreeing that they won't try to steal all the land.
Simple as that.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
This is silly at best, vengeful at worst. In short, because of attitudes like this, you have war.
In reality, before there can be peace, all sides need to realize that the definition of peace is the absence of conflict and then to act accordingly.
"Realizing" (read blaming) one side is not a step towards peace. Peace stems from independence and blame is a highly dependent act. Peace will be found when both sides stop referring to the other, but rather only to themselves. When Israelis start talking about recognizing their own borders, when Palestinians start talking about preventing attacks and repraisals from their own territorty, and both sides start talking about healing the ideological schisms within their own populations, peace will be in short order.
I cannot believe that this kind of statement is still being made. Of course Israel has been an instigator. But to imply, as this does, that Palestinians and other parties have not been instigators, is nothing short of insane. There have been so many instigations by both sides that finger pointing is laughable.
This topic is so blindly partisan, so ingrained, and so visceral, it's no surprise that so little progress is made.
That's what we have here....
They've lost enough land and suffered enough already. They are the ones defending themselves. Israel will just keep taking. Look for yourself.
They will take every last square inch. There is no intention of living in peace. Those in power are insane.
http://www.friendsofpalestine.org.au/gallery.html
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I'm curious -- what is your solution to this problem? Do you want to give the land back to the British? Give it all to the existing Palestinian government? Use international forces to push both sides back to the 1967 borders? What specifically, in your mind, will lead to peace?
absolutely. but most on here agree with hamas that Israel doesnt have the right to exist. it gets us no where.