The pull back should be in accordance with international law and the consensus of the international community - excluding the U.S which supports the occupation - which is that Israel needs to withdraw to the pre 1967 borders.
We know that Israel will never agree to anything and it will continue flouting International law as long as it's crimes are supported by the U.S government.
that's been the general agreement it seems, for Israel to pull back to the 1967 borders...which they have repeatedly refused to do. It really is up to Israel, whether or not they want to end the violence.
that's been the general agreement it seems, for Israel to pull back to the 1967 borders...which they have repeatedly refused to do. It really is up to Israel, whether or not they want to end the violence.
Right. It's up to Israel, but also the U.S. Let's not forget that this isn't just an issue between two opposing parties; the Palestinians and Israel. This is an issue between the Palestinians, Israel and the U.S. Without unconditional U.S support for Israel and U.S interference in the International consensus for a two-state settlement, this conflict would have been over a long time ago.
It really is a shame that the best interests of both Israel and the U.S are being hijacked by a bunch of war-mongering religious freaks.
The U.S would benefit immeasurably from switching sides and supporting the Palestinians. It's a shame that so many people fail to see that.
The U.S would benefit immeasurably from switching sides and supporting the Palestinians. It's a shame that so many people fail to see that.
That's not helpful, dude, at all. The U.S. does need to end its favoritism of Israel, and adopt a BALANCED approach. More black-and-white won't help Israel to change its own black-and-white, all-or-nothing stance on the issue. Everyone going to have to suck it up and conpromise to some extent. Israel should do more compromising, given that they hold the military cards and given that they have occupied the wrong lands for too long already. They won't shift until they also get some Palestinian initiatives to end the violence, though. And obviously ceasefires won't cut it, because BOTH sides have broken many of those.
I'd say you probably should be banned, but then I'd have to concede that I should be banned too.
I think Roland might need a time-out, because he's STILL pissed at me after, like, two days ...
I'm not the one telling people to go fuck themselves. sorry.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Well ye, but what i mean is i thought i was getting banned, but i didnt tell you to "go fuck yourself".
it's all good tho i'm just making an observation, im not trying to get anyone banned.
You didn't, but I think you had the misfortune of being yet another person to paint me with the warmonger brush in these Israel threads. Its an odd position to be in ... Arguing against violence but being told that you're some sort of Bushie-loving armchair warhawk because you refuse to see this issue as one-sided. Its bizarre, honestly, not you specifically, but more generally ... People who won't concede that terrorism is unhelpful telling you that you're a bastard.
Anyhow, there ya go.
I'm not the one telling people to go fuck themselves. sorry.
No, you confine your helpful activities to telling people that they're stupid for not seeing your points, and then getting two-face to back you up on it with some lame gaslighting attempt. Sorry, but its not appreciated. Also, what was telling Heinneken Helen not to keep bringing the issue up, and then not two posts later calling me out yet again?
You guys can treat these threads like an opportunity to flex your message board brute squad muscles, or you can at least pretend to be interested in other views of the situation.
Maybe I am stupid after all, for being the only person still trying to debate with you guys. Everyone else on the other side is long-gone.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
No, you confine your helpful activities to telling people that they're stupid for not seeing your points, and then getting two-face to back you up on it with some lame gaslighting attempt. Sorry, but its not appreciated. Also, what was telling Heinneken Helen not to keep bringing the issue up, and then not two posts later calling me out yet again?
You guys can treat these threads like an opportunity to flex your message board brute squad muscles, or you can at least pretend to be interested in other views of the situation.
Maybe I am stupid after all, for being the only person still trying to debate with you guys. Everyone else on the other side is long-gone.
Hey man I made a generalized comment not even directed at you, and you started in with the personal attacks.
You're just an innocent bystander...I can see.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Hey man I made a generalized comment not even directed at you, and you started in with the personal attacks.
You're just an innocent bystander...I can see.
Your comment was a personal attack on everyone in this thread disagreeing with you. I don't know what else would have spurred you on. And even if it was a "generalized comment", how the hell was it helpful? You did exactly what Brynzie said I did, which was to become pissy because you had nothing argument-wise.
Sorry, but harping about my personal attacks kind of loses some of its credibility when you keep bringing the issue up, after several other posters declared it dead ... Go look at your posts.
You didn't, but I think you had the misfortune of being yet another person to paint me with the warmonger brush in these Israel threads. Its an odd position to be in ... Arguing against violence but being told that you're some sort of Bushie-loving armchair warhawk because you refuse to see this issue as one-sided. Its bizarre, honestly, not you specifically, but more generally ... People who won't concede that terrorism is unhelpful telling you that you're a bastard.
Anyhow, there ya go.
Just let the conspiracy theorists have their circle jerk...get out of here before it gets on you!
Your comment was a personal attack on everyone in this thread disagreeing with you. I don't know what else would have spurred you on. And even if it was a "generalized comment", how the hell was it helpful? You did exactly what Brynzie said I did, which was to become pissy because you had nothing argument-wise.
Sorry, but harping about my personal attacks kind of loses some of its credibility when you keep bringing the issue up, after several other posters declared it dead ... Go look at your posts.
I know exactly what I post.
When the focus is pinpointed to someone in particular...that's the distinction, and the problem.
It's only directed at you if you perceive it to be, and decide to take it personally and then proceed to conduct yourself in a spiteful manner and call people out directly ...to the point you're telling people to go fuck themselves, and even relishing in it afterwards. You want to call me out? Sure, I can hang with the best of them.
Some people are a notch above it. I'll usually entertain it for a while to expose people's true intentions if they are to be seen.
Surely you can see how it derails and disrupts legitimate discussion and threads can't you? Yet you feed into it again and again at a direct attack level at every opportunity.
Spite and vengeance...wonderful traits to possess, if you were to perhaps possess them in any significant amount.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Unfortunately, I stepped up and tried to play crazy-ball, and it wound up being a lot more trouble than it was worth.
Really? That sounds very interesting. In what way?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
When the focus is pinpointed to someone in particular...that's the distinction, and the problem.
It's only directed at you if you perceive it to be, and decide to take it personally and then proceed to conduct yourself in a spiteful manner and call people out directly ...to the point you're telling people to go fuck themselves, and even relishing in it afterwards. You want to call me out? Sure, I can hang with the best of them.
Some people are a notch above it. I'll usually entertain it for a while to expose people's true intentions if they are to be seen.
Surely you can see how it derails and disrupts legitimate discussion and threads can't you? Yet you feed into it again and again at a direct attack level at every opportunity.
Spite and vengeance...wonderful traits to possess, if you were to perhaps possess them in any significant amount.
I don't even follow you anymore, which is maybe just as well. I am relishing shit now? Alrighty then.
And while Specifics and I are indeed cool at this point, I'd appreciate it if you stopped pretending that I was not provoked there. Again, go back and read the thead if that's what it takes to jog your memory.
I don't even follow you anymore, which is maybe just as well. I am relishing shit now? Alrighty then.
And while Specifics and I are indeed cool at this point, I'd appreciate it if you stopped pretending that I was not provoked there. Again, go back and read the thead if that's what it takes to jog your memory.
It's all pretty straightforward. Those who can see will see.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
It's all pretty straightforward. Those who can see will see.
Well, then we can agree on at least one thing, which is nothing short of a minor miracle. People on here aren't stupid, contrary to what you suggested to start this whole thing.
Well, then we can agree on at least one thing, which is nothing short of a minor miracle. People on here aren't stupid, contrary to what you suggested to start this whole thing.
I played ping pong with you for a bit on a match you started to see how long and far you would take it and to what degree. So yes, in that regard, they aren't stupid.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I played ping pong with you for a bit on a match you started to see how long and far you would take it and to what degree. So yes, in that regard, they aren't stupid.
Right, this was all some kind of grand strategy on your part to "out me". Of course, I should have known. Glad the truth is coming out now. Who knows what people might have assumed otherwise? Obviously your character is beyond rapproch.
Right, this was all some kind of grand strategy on your part to "out me". Of course, I should have known. Glad the truth is coming out now. Who knows what people might have assumed otherwise? Obviously your character is beyond rapproch.
Reproach?
I've been privy to this methodology for a long time. Been in the exact same circumstance hundreds of times enough to learn various angles on how it all works, and how people are, and react, and conduct themselves in various situations.
I also always reserve the right to defend myself when attacked and called out directly.
As should everyone deserve these exact same rights.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I've been privy to this methodology for a long time. Been in the exact same circumstance hundreds of times enough to learn various angles on how it all works, and how people are, and react, and conduct themselves in various situations.
I also always reserve the right to defend myself when attacked and called out directly.
As should everyone deserve these exact same rights.
And apparently you also reserve the right to use personal attacks but then hide behind "oh, but it was only a generalized remark!!!" ... And right #2 is "I reserve the right to keep bringing shit up, well after the poster I am sparring with has left and gotten over things, and then I can have someone else jump in and continue to state offensive things, and basically, I will never, ever, let something go."
Really? This is what you've distilled from your endless experiences? Hey, it ain't working for me. Sorry.
And apparently you also reserve the right to use personal attacks but then hide behind "oh, but it was only a generalized remark!!!" ... And right #2 is "I reserve the right to keep bringing shit up, well after the poster I am sparring with has left and gotten over things, and then I can have someone else jump in and continue to state offensive things, and basically, I will never, ever, let something go."
Really? This is what you've distilled from your endless experiences? Hey, it ain't working for me. Sorry.
Sure you can take your shots first. Don't cry foul when you get them back.
that's all.
You're still doing it btw...and you might care to notice I haven't been.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
Right. It's up to Israel, but also the U.S. Let's not forget that this isn't just an issue between two opposing parties; the Palestinians and Israel. This is an issue between the Palestinians, Israel and the U.S. Without unconditional U.S support for Israel and U.S interference in the International consensus for a two-state settlement, this conflict would have been over a long time ago.
It really is a shame that the best interests of both Israel and the U.S are being hijacked by a bunch of war-mongering religious freaks.
The U.S would benefit immeasurably from switching sides and supporting the Palestinians. It's a shame that so many people fail to see that.
Interesting. Because i thought i was going to get banned for general insults, swearing and making a potentially homophobic remark.
(i'm not homophobic or homosexual)
edit: I'm all for revolution tho!!
Are you still trying to draw out this shit, man? WOW.
I'd say you probably should be banned, but then I'd have to concede that I should be banned too.
I think Roland might need a time-out, because he's STILL pissed at me after, like, two days ...
That's not helpful, dude, at all. The U.S. does need to end its favoritism of Israel, and adopt a BALANCED approach. More black-and-white won't help Israel to change its own black-and-white, all-or-nothing stance on the issue. Everyone going to have to suck it up and conpromise to some extent. Israel should do more compromising, given that they hold the military cards and given that they have occupied the wrong lands for too long already. They won't shift until they also get some Palestinian initiatives to end the violence, though. And obviously ceasefires won't cut it, because BOTH sides have broken many of those.
Well ye, but what i mean is i thought i was getting banned, but i didnt tell you to "go fuck yourself".
it's all good tho i'm just making an observation, im not trying to get anyone banned.
I'm not the one telling people to go fuck themselves. sorry.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
You didn't, but I think you had the misfortune of being yet another person to paint me with the warmonger brush in these Israel threads. Its an odd position to be in ... Arguing against violence but being told that you're some sort of Bushie-loving armchair warhawk because you refuse to see this issue as one-sided. Its bizarre, honestly, not you specifically, but more generally ... People who won't concede that terrorism is unhelpful telling you that you're a bastard.
Anyhow, there ya go.
No, you confine your helpful activities to telling people that they're stupid for not seeing your points, and then getting two-face to back you up on it with some lame gaslighting attempt. Sorry, but its not appreciated. Also, what was telling Heinneken Helen not to keep bringing the issue up, and then not two posts later calling me out yet again?
You guys can treat these threads like an opportunity to flex your message board brute squad muscles, or you can at least pretend to be interested in other views of the situation.
Maybe I am stupid after all, for being the only person still trying to debate with you guys. Everyone else on the other side is long-gone.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
About the reaction I'd expect.
Hey man I made a generalized comment not even directed at you, and you started in with the personal attacks.
You're just an innocent bystander...I can see.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Your comment was a personal attack on everyone in this thread disagreeing with you. I don't know what else would have spurred you on. And even if it was a "generalized comment", how the hell was it helpful? You did exactly what Brynzie said I did, which was to become pissy because you had nothing argument-wise.
Sorry, but harping about my personal attacks kind of loses some of its credibility when you keep bringing the issue up, after several other posters declared it dead ... Go look at your posts.
Just let the conspiracy theorists have their circle jerk...get out of here before it gets on you!
I know exactly what I post.
When the focus is pinpointed to someone in particular...that's the distinction, and the problem.
It's only directed at you if you perceive it to be, and decide to take it personally and then proceed to conduct yourself in a spiteful manner and call people out directly ...to the point you're telling people to go fuck themselves, and even relishing in it afterwards. You want to call me out? Sure, I can hang with the best of them.
Some people are a notch above it. I'll usually entertain it for a while to expose people's true intentions if they are to be seen.
Surely you can see how it derails and disrupts legitimate discussion and threads can't you? Yet you feed into it again and again at a direct attack level at every opportunity.
Spite and vengeance...wonderful traits to possess, if you were to perhaps possess them in any significant amount.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Unfortunately, I stepped up and tried to play crazy-ball, and it wound up being a lot more trouble than it was worth.
Really? That sounds very interesting. In what way?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I don't even follow you anymore, which is maybe just as well. I am relishing shit now? Alrighty then.
And while Specifics and I are indeed cool at this point, I'd appreciate it if you stopped pretending that I was not provoked there. Again, go back and read the thead if that's what it takes to jog your memory.
It's all pretty straightforward. Those who can see will see.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Well, then we can agree on at least one thing, which is nothing short of a minor miracle. People on here aren't stupid, contrary to what you suggested to start this whole thing.
I played ping pong with you for a bit on a match you started to see how long and far you would take it and to what degree. So yes, in that regard, they aren't stupid.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Right, this was all some kind of grand strategy on your part to "out me". Of course, I should have known. Glad the truth is coming out now. Who knows what people might have assumed otherwise? Obviously your character is beyond rapproch.
Reproach?
I've been privy to this methodology for a long time. Been in the exact same circumstance hundreds of times enough to learn various angles on how it all works, and how people are, and react, and conduct themselves in various situations.
I also always reserve the right to defend myself when attacked and called out directly.
As should everyone deserve these exact same rights.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
And apparently you also reserve the right to use personal attacks but then hide behind "oh, but it was only a generalized remark!!!" ... And right #2 is "I reserve the right to keep bringing shit up, well after the poster I am sparring with has left and gotten over things, and then I can have someone else jump in and continue to state offensive things, and basically, I will never, ever, let something go."
Really? This is what you've distilled from your endless experiences? Hey, it ain't working for me. Sorry.
So what's new?
Dude, you blasting me was not appreciated. You know better than that. I'll say that much, and then let it drop.
Sure you can take your shots first. Don't cry foul when you get them back.
that's all.
You're still doing it btw...and you might care to notice I haven't been.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Right, this is me, having a discussion with myself. You just a nice fella watching everything unfold.
Morning. Not much Steve. Same old same old.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")