Why don't you try referring to the actual video that I posted if you have a problem with it? Is there something about what George Galloway said that you disagree with? If so, what is it? You haven't once referred to the actual video, but instead have just accused people of being anti-semitic e.t.c.
Excuse me, I accused one person of making an anti-semitic statement, and I have yet to see anyone disagree with my assessment. (If anyone thinks that asserting that Jews secretly control America is not anti-semitic then I would recommend reading up on the topic). As for the video, I see little point in commenting on it. The same video was linked to in countless threads last summer and was discussed then. What more is there to say about it. I'm really more interested in talking about why people seem to have this need to fight each other over this topic. You clearly know (or should have learned by now from experience) that you probably aren't going to convince anyone not already in agreement with you, but that doesn't seem to be your goal anyways given the hostile tone you employ from the outset. I just don't understand why you're trying to pick fights.
No, we can't. Israel has been engaged in state terrorism for the past 40 years. That's a fact, despite the efforts of the U.S Government to singularly, and unilaterally brush Israels crimes under the carpet by vetoing every single U.N resolution that condemns the illegal occupation and calls for a two-state solution. Firing missiles into crowded residential streets is an act of terrorism.
Bulldozing peoples homes is an act of terrorism.
Shooting 6 year old children in the head for throwing stones is an act of terrorism.
Continuing an illegal, and brutal military occupation is an act of terrorism.
e.t.c, e.t.c.
Without getting into this pointless debate with you I will point out that you haven't addressed the question of mine that you quote in your post. However it seems clear from your response that my question was founded on a false assumption that you even began this thread to engage in dialogue when it is now perfectly clear that you simply wanted a venue in which to rant.
It isn't that I don't like what they have to say. It's that I don't like the manner in which they choose to say it, which is so flagrantly offensive and hostile that it effectively pre-empts any possible true discussion and understanding. A conversation is by definition two sided. It involves give and take such as what the two of us have been doing. Name-calling is no discussion.
I can agree with you on that. If someone has to resort to being an asshole, it's because they have nothing substantial to reply with....seen it time and time again.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You've gotten it all wrong. He began the interview by stating how he had been opposing the occupation for as long as his daughter has been alive. Not that he began opposing the illegal occupation on the day of his daughters birth, but that he had been opposing the occupation for as long as she has been alive, and longer. It is only later in the interview that he attacks the obviously biased interviewer for trying to pretend that the roots of the Israel-Lebanon crises began just 4 weeks previously. You must have been watching the video backwards. No wonder you heard things that weren't actually said and so believe that George Galloway is racist.
And as for the rest of your post and your stating that people criticize 'Israel because they hate Jews', this just confirms the fact that you have nothing constructive to say on the subject.
I find it beyond belief that you offer up as criticism not having something constructive to say. As if throwing around loaded terms about Israel's state terrorism is constructive.
Without getting into this pointless debate with you I will point out that you haven't addressed the question of mine that you quote in your post. However it seems clear from your response that my question was founded on a false assumption that you even began this thread to engage in dialogue when it is now perfectly clear that you simply wanted a venue in which to rant.
My word...yes Holmes...it was indeed carried out in the library with (in fact) the candlestick as suspected.
....we's jus simple folk here Byrnzie and I is....
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Excuse me, I accused one person of making an anti-semitic statement, and I have yet to see anyone disagree with my assessment. (If anyone thinks that asserting that Jews secretly control America is not anti-semitic then I would recommend reading up on the topic). As for the video, I see little point in commenting on it. The same video was linked to in countless threads last summer and was discussed then. What more is there to say about it. I'm really more interested in talking about why people seem to have this need to fight each other over this topic. You clearly know (or should have learned by now from experience) that you probably aren't going to convince anyone not already in agreement with you, but that doesn't seem to be your goal anyways given the hostile tone you employ from the outset. I just don't understand why you're trying to pick fights.
I understand why he does. cuz he is hard headed like me and feels very passionately that Israel is a terrorist state and have no legitimacy until they return to the 1967 borders. thats it. anything else you say is wrong. you and I will disagree with his stance, but thats allowed. byrzine, i'm not knockin ya buddy. I feel the same way, except its on opposite side of the argument. I enjoy sparin with ya. I think ultimately we all want peace.
Fine. So which part of all the criticism of Israel do you have a problem with? Can you be more specific? Your post on it's own says nothing.
What part of the criticism of Israel do you believe is 'wildly off base, or grows out of questionable motivations, or both'?
Is there a point in me answering these questions? I doubt it will get anywhere. Judging by your other comments any answer I give that you disagree with will only result in a torrent of vitriolic abuse. I feel like until I'm satisfied that we can actually discuss the situation rationally and with some modicum of civility there really isn't any point in discussing it at all.
I can agree with you on that. If someone has to resort to being an asshole, it's because they have nothing substantial to reply with....seen it time and time again.
or sometimes people (jlew24asu<----wont say who) just like being an asshole
Oh heavens, I'm so sorry if I've caused offense with my lofty rhetoric. I shall hence forth endeavor to converse in a more plebean manner. Forsooth, this shant happen again.
Is there a point in me answering these questions? I doubt it will get anywhere. Judging by your other comments any answer I give that you disagree with will only result in a torrent of vitriolic abuse. I feel like until I'm satisfied that we can actually discuss the situation rationally and with some modicum of civility there really isn't any point in discussing it at all.
I'd be happy to discuss this with you, rationally.
seems to me, people will consider Israel a "terrorist state" until they return to the 1967 borders.
from what I understand, Israel went on the offensive in response to a ,military build up along the border is Egypt. (which side is right or wrong is highly debatable)
so I ask, would going back to the 1967 borders bring peace to the region? why or why not should Israel do it ?
Without getting into this pointless debate with you I will point out that you haven't addressed the question of mine that you quote in your post. However it seems clear from your response that my question was founded on a false assumption that you even began this thread to engage in dialogue when it is now perfectly clear that you simply wanted a venue in which to rant.
I did address the question of yours. I answered it by saying flatly,'no, we can't'.
I find it beyond belief that you offer up as criticism not having something constructive to say. As if throwing around loaded terms about Israel's state terrorism is constructive.
is there a difference between you and your government? while many settlers do attack and abuse palestinians no one is saying every single israeli is like this...a lot, like on all sides, just happen to be caught in the middle
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I don't think it would bring peace to the region because I think at this point "resistance" has become a goal among many Palestinians so that they will continue to violently "resist" even once the occupation is over. It's like Hezbollah in Lebanon. Once Israel pulled out of Lebanon in 2000 Hezbollah simply found a new justification for continuing to fight. For them it is the Shebaa Farms, which is a tiny territory they claim is a part of Lebanon still under occupation. In fact the land is recognized by the UN to have been part of Syria before 67', but that doesn't really matter to Hezbollah because all they are looking for is a pretext to keep fighting. The reason Israel should pull back is demographic and moral. Israel has no right to rule over the Palestinians against their will, and if Israel is to remain both a democracy and a Jewish state is must cease occupying nearly 3 million Palestinians. I don't think Israel should pull back entirely to the 67' line, which was never a border anyways, only an armistice line, because they need to make very slight alterations to the line for security reasons (ie controlling the heights overlooking the only international airport in the country so that someone can't easily close down the country with a shoulder mounted missile). This would be an addition to Israel of about 3% of the West Bank, which they could compensate the Palestinians for with land that is now part of Israel.
Oh heavens, I'm so sorry if I've caused offense with my lofty rhetoric. I shall hence forth endeavor to converse in a more plebean manner. Forsooth, this shant happen again.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
is there a difference between you and your government? while many settlers do attack and abuse palestinians no one is saying every single israeli is like this...a lot, like on all sides, just happen to be caught in the middle
I agree about people being caught in the middle, but I don't get the bit about the division between gov't and individual. What is the connection to Byrnzie using loaded terms?
I did address the question of yours. I answered it by saying flatly,'no, we can't'.
alright, then could you please explain to me how talking about "Israeli terror" is a constructive way to begin a discussion. Saying that Israel practices state terror is not an answer.
I agree about people being caught in the middle, but I don't get the bit about the division between gov't and individual. What is the connection to Byrnzie using loaded terms?
b/c you seem to be taking it personal whenever he says it...it's not being applied to every single israeli
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
alright, then could you please explain to me how talking about "Israeli terror" is a constructive way to begin a discussion. Saying that Israel practices state terror is not an answer.
stop doing it, how's that for an answer?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
b/c you seem to be taking it personal whenever he says it...it's not being applied to every single israeli
ok, I see what you mean, but that assumes that one can only be offended by comments directed directly at oneself. I'm offended by the comments because I strongly disagree with them and therefore find them to be a slur against a country that I love dearly, but that isn't even my point. My point is that Byrnzie seems to patently not want to discuss the issue and come to a greater understanding of world events. Rather he seems to simply want someone to scream at, and I'm just perplexed why he feels this urge to unload all his anger about this topic on us?
alright, then could you please explain to me how talking about "Israeli terror" is a constructive way to begin a discussion. Saying that Israel practices state terror is not an answer.
By the way I'm not Israeli. And weren't you the one just drawing distinctions between individuals and gov't?
you think i was talking to you personally? there you go again...it was an answer, israel should stop it's terroristic activities
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
That is your opinion. I disagree. I in no way condone everything Israel does, but I think that talking about state terror blatently ignores salient points of history and intention.
ok, I see what you mean, but that assumes that one can only be offended by comments directed directly at oneself. I'm offended by the comments because I strongly disagree with them and therefore find them to be a slur against a country that I love dearly, but that isn't even my point. My point is that Byrnzie seems to patently not want to discuss the issue and come to a greater understanding of world events. Rather he seems to simply want someone to scream at, and I'm just perplexed why he feels this urge to unload all his anger about this topic on us?
ppl feel strongly about the actions of israel against the palestinians. some actions can certainly be regarded as 'terrorism'...you can't get so upset b/c ppl don't see it the same was you
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
That is your opinion. I disagree. I in no way condone everything Israel does, but I think that talking about state terror blatently ignores salient points of history and intention.
what is the intention of targeting their electrical system, even to the schools and hospitals? what is the intention of attacking an ambulance?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
you think i was talking to you personally? there you go again...it was an answer, israel should stop it's terroristic activities
But it's an answer to a question I didn't ask. The question isn't about what Israel does or doesn't, should or shouldn't do. The question was about the proper way to address other people who might not agree with you when beginning a discussion of a sensitive subject. I am questioning whether Byrnzie's choice of terms was well suited to starting a conversation, which again must be two-sided, or whether he is merely looking to pick a fight.
it's gonna take both sides to resolve this awlful mess. it's gonna take some shit eating from both sides. so just get on with it and do right by your people. i dont care what has gone on in the past. suck it up and start anew.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
what is the intention of targeting their electrical system, even to the schools and hospitals? what is the intention of attacking an ambulance?
The electrical system I can't speak to. As for ambulances, there have been repeated well documented instances of Palestinian terrorists using ambulances and other "protected" vehicles to transport weapons and attackers. Just yesterday an Israeli army post was attacked by militants using a jeep with TV markings on it.
ppl feel strongly about the actions of israel against the palestinians. some actions can certainly be regarded as 'terrorism'...you can't get so upset b/c ppl don't see it the same was you
I don't care if people disagree with me. That is there right and the more power to them. All I'm saying is that we should strive to discuss issues in a constructive and positive manner without immediately throwing out terms meant to alienate and infuriate those with whom we disagree.
Comments
Excuse me, I accused one person of making an anti-semitic statement, and I have yet to see anyone disagree with my assessment. (If anyone thinks that asserting that Jews secretly control America is not anti-semitic then I would recommend reading up on the topic). As for the video, I see little point in commenting on it. The same video was linked to in countless threads last summer and was discussed then. What more is there to say about it. I'm really more interested in talking about why people seem to have this need to fight each other over this topic. You clearly know (or should have learned by now from experience) that you probably aren't going to convince anyone not already in agreement with you, but that doesn't seem to be your goal anyways given the hostile tone you employ from the outset. I just don't understand why you're trying to pick fights.
Without getting into this pointless debate with you I will point out that you haven't addressed the question of mine that you quote in your post. However it seems clear from your response that my question was founded on a false assumption that you even began this thread to engage in dialogue when it is now perfectly clear that you simply wanted a venue in which to rant.
I can agree with you on that. If someone has to resort to being an asshole, it's because they have nothing substantial to reply with....seen it time and time again.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I find it beyond belief that you offer up as criticism not having something constructive to say. As if throwing around loaded terms about Israel's state terrorism is constructive.
My word...yes Holmes...it was indeed carried out in the library with (in fact) the candlestick as suspected.
....we's jus simple folk here Byrnzie and I is....
http://sidesalad.net/archives/Rednecks.jpg
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Is there a point in me answering these questions? I doubt it will get anywhere. Judging by your other comments any answer I give that you disagree with will only result in a torrent of vitriolic abuse. I feel like until I'm satisfied that we can actually discuss the situation rationally and with some modicum of civility there really isn't any point in discussing it at all.
Oh heavens, I'm so sorry if I've caused offense with my lofty rhetoric. I shall hence forth endeavor to converse in a more plebean manner. Forsooth, this shant happen again.
seems to me, people will consider Israel a "terrorist state" until they return to the 1967 borders.
from what I understand, Israel went on the offensive in response to a ,military build up along the border is Egypt. (which side is right or wrong is highly debatable)
so I ask, would going back to the 1967 borders bring peace to the region? why or why not should Israel do it ?
I think you'll find that Israel was on the offensive a long time before 1967.
I did address the question of yours. I answered it by saying flatly,'no, we can't'.
is there a difference between you and your government? while many settlers do attack and abuse palestinians no one is saying every single israeli is like this...a lot, like on all sides, just happen to be caught in the middle
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
speaking of insane...
http://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/insane-bush.gif
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I agree about people being caught in the middle, but I don't get the bit about the division between gov't and individual. What is the connection to Byrnzie using loaded terms?
alright, then could you please explain to me how talking about "Israeli terror" is a constructive way to begin a discussion. Saying that Israel practices state terror is not an answer.
b/c you seem to be taking it personal whenever he says it...it's not being applied to every single israeli
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
stop doing it, how's that for an answer?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
ok, I see what you mean, but that assumes that one can only be offended by comments directed directly at oneself. I'm offended by the comments because I strongly disagree with them and therefore find them to be a slur against a country that I love dearly, but that isn't even my point. My point is that Byrnzie seems to patently not want to discuss the issue and come to a greater understanding of world events. Rather he seems to simply want someone to scream at, and I'm just perplexed why he feels this urge to unload all his anger about this topic on us?
By the way I'm not Israeli. And weren't you the one just drawing distinctions between individuals and gov't?
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you think i was talking to you personally? there you go again...it was an answer, israel should stop it's terroristic activities
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
That is your opinion. I disagree. I in no way condone everything Israel does, but I think that talking about state terror blatently ignores salient points of history and intention.
ppl feel strongly about the actions of israel against the palestinians. some actions can certainly be regarded as 'terrorism'...you can't get so upset b/c ppl don't see it the same was you
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
what is the intention of targeting their electrical system, even to the schools and hospitals? what is the intention of attacking an ambulance?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
But it's an answer to a question I didn't ask. The question isn't about what Israel does or doesn't, should or shouldn't do. The question was about the proper way to address other people who might not agree with you when beginning a discussion of a sensitive subject. I am questioning whether Byrnzie's choice of terms was well suited to starting a conversation, which again must be two-sided, or whether he is merely looking to pick a fight.
it's gonna take both sides to resolve this awlful mess. it's gonna take some shit eating from both sides. so just get on with it and do right by your people. i dont care what has gone on in the past. suck it up and start anew.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The electrical system I can't speak to. As for ambulances, there have been repeated well documented instances of Palestinian terrorists using ambulances and other "protected" vehicles to transport weapons and attackers. Just yesterday an Israeli army post was attacked by militants using a jeep with TV markings on it.
I don't care if people disagree with me. That is there right and the more power to them. All I'm saying is that we should strive to discuss issues in a constructive and positive manner without immediately throwing out terms meant to alienate and infuriate those with whom we disagree.