First of all, no not all...some still do contain it. Also, it was merely replaced in other imms with different preservatives. The fact remains. Imms are not healthy. They overload the body, esp the liver and spleen because of multiples given together. They also innundate a babies developing immune system. Babies do not need these at such an early age due to the natural protection they have from their mothers at birth. Starting infants as young as one day old with Hep B vaccine is unsafe, irrational and uncalled for.
Try doing the research yourself and see what you come up with. Don't rely blindly on the info given to you via the doctors office. Those preprinted info sheets come directly from the vaccine manufacturers.
Um, I am actively involved in this field, even did a stint at the CDC in my undergrad days, I've worked with some of the best in the field. I'm curious where you obtain your info from. Perhaps you could link us to some peer reviewed papers backing your claims. My research does not come from quacks or conspiracy theory websites, but published results. Show me a peer reviewed paper backing your claims. And it is ridiculous to suggest that babies have a natural defense from diseases, such as whooping cough, measles, etc. What an uneducated statement!
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Hope you're not getting uptight about me and what I think I know because the older I get the more I know that I know nothing!
But I would like to continue to struggle along trying to wade through all the science to a better understanding.
I'm just bored. It's my sixth work day in a row and it's boring. I'll be here for another two hours, then I'm home playing Wii.
I got this DVD from HHMI called "2000 and Beyond: The Microbe Menace" that covers the future of infectious diseases. I haven't watched it yet, but it looks interesting. It can be viewed online here http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/disease/lectures.html
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
First of all, no not all...some still do contain it.
Wrong, thimerosal was removed from all vaccinations with the exception of some flu shots as of 2003. Did you not look at the CDC link I provided? I will provide it again for you reading enjoyment.
I have to say, of all the discussions I've been involved in on AMT, this one really boils my blood. I can not stress the danger of misinformation like this. Over a year ago, three people in Indiana were hospitalized last year after a 17-year-old girl carried measles back from Romania. It spread to 34 people because many in her community had refused to be vaccinated due to an irrational fear spread by misinformation.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Well, OK........ Frankly, I find it a bit disturbing that someone who professes to be in health care would hold such a reckless and dangerous view, ie being against all vaccinations. I only pray that you do not mislead folks that come to you for professional opinions, because most in the health care field would view discouraging vaccinations as, well, incompetence. Firstly, there are a lot of folks that are susceptible/gullible to the proliferation of misinformation and flat-out conspiracy theory type stuff posted all over the internet (it seems they find it easier to learn the misinformation than to unlearn it in the face of more credible facts). And second, the huge success of vaccinations are their own downfall..people have never seen a polio outbreak, a case of tetanus toxicity, or known someone rendered sterile by mumps.This kind of ignorance puts everyone in danger. This is a public health issue that not only affects you, but the person sitting next to you.
A big risk is that once an outbreak occurs among the unvaccinated, it then gives that disease organism an opportunity to multiply rapidly, which leaves open opportunity for more mutations to render the organism sufficiently changed to then infect even the vaccinated.
I'm sorry that you are disturbed, but the fact remains, many in the medical field are seeing the truth in vaccines. It is very similar to the course change antibiotics took from our generation to our childrens. When we were kids, antibiotics were given for every little ailment. We now know that this has caused a significant drop in effectiveness and has aided in the creation of super strains of virus and bacteria.
What is truly a disservice to patients is to not inform them fully. Anyone who lives in a major country like the US or Australia are not at significant risk for diseases of the past such as polio, whooping cough, smallpox etc. Things like Hep B vaccine only treats one strain in the family of Hepatitis. Same with the new HPV vaccine being pushed on preteen girls. Flu vaccine only treats the strain of flu that is "expected" to be strongest in the next season. The list goes on and on.
Vaccine necessity is a fallicy in todays society. Unless you are traveling to a third world country where major communicable disease is highly likely to be contracted, children and babies do not need to be immunized.
If a person chooses to vaccinate their child, at the very least they should do single immunizations. Not multiple. They should also highly weigh the dangers vs. the risks of contracting unseen diseases such as polio or diptheria. The rest also need careful evaluation as to exposure rates. How often will a child actually come into a risk for acquiring hepatitis or measles and mumps. The chickenpox vaccine is one of the newer ones that again has very little merit behind it. Chickenpox was a rite of passage for centuries. With very few people developing significant problems from it or dying. But now parents are pushed with scare tactics to get their kids immunized against this very minor disease. With I might add, a huge breathrough rate. So again I ask you, do the risks outweight the complications or possibility of disease.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Wrong, thimerosal was removed from all vaccinations with the exception of some flu shots as of 2003. Did you not look at the CDC link I provided? I will provide it again for you reading enjoyment.
I have to say, of all the discussions I've been involved in on AMT, this one really boils my blood. I can not stress the danger of misinformation like this. Over a year ago, three people in Indiana were hospitalized last year after a 17-year-old girl carried measles back from Romania. It spread to 34 people because many in her community had refused to be vaccinated due to an irrational fear spread by misinformation.
LOL I do not need to "look at the information you provided" because I do this for a living. I have and continue to read pretty much every article out there. This is a topic of disucssion regularly had between colleagues. Who do you think you are? The misinformation comes from those like you who refuse to see beyond what you are force fed.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
I'm just bored. It's my sixth work day in a row and it's boring. I'll be here for another two hours, then I'm home playing Wii.
I got this DVD from HHMI called "2000 and Beyond: The Microbe Menace" that covers the future of infectious diseases. I haven't watched it yet, but it looks interesting. It can be viewed online here http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/disease/lectures.html
Yeah, how embarrassment, I got no clue about these Wii thingies.
But 6 days of work would suck! :(
Are we talking infectious like streptococci, meningicocci and staphlococous or like those scary superbug f**kers that are coming for us all? :eek:
I watched a two hour long documentary about the efficacy of vaccines and the harmful side-effects. The documentary was bias against vaccination, claiming it caused autism and so on, some statistical evidence was provided, but afterwards I remained unconvinced.
This thread right now looks like that documentary, without the evidence.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm sorry that you are disturbed, but the fact remains, many in the medical field are seeing the truth in vaccines. It is very similar to the course change antibiotics took from our generation to our childrens. When we were kids, antibiotics were given for every little ailment. We now know that this has caused a significant drop in effectiveness and has aided in the creation of super strains of virus and bacteria.
What is truly a disservice to patients is to not inform them fully. Anyone who lives in a major country like the US or Australia are not at significant risk for diseases of the past such as polio, whooping cough, smallpox etc. Things like Hep B vaccine only treats one strain in the family of Hepatitis. Same with the new HPV vaccine being pushed on preteen girls. Flu vaccine only treats the strain of flu that is "expected" to be strongest in the next season. The list goes on and on.
Vaccine necessity is a fallicy in todays society. Unless you are traveling to a third world country where major communicable disease is highly likely to be contracted, children and babies do not need to be immunized.
If a person chooses to vaccinate their child, at the very least they should do single immunizations. Not multiple. They should also highly weigh the dangers vs. the risks of contracting unseen diseases such as polio or diptheria. The rest also need careful evaluation as to exposure rates. How often will a child actually come into a risk for acquiring hepatitis or measles and mumps. The chickenpox vaccine is one of the newer ones that again has very little merit behind it. Chickenpox was a rite of passage for centuries. With very few people developing significant problems from it or dying. But now parents are pushed with scare tactics to get their kids immunized against this very minor disease. With I might add, a huge breathrough rate. So again I ask you, do the risks outweight the complications or possibility of disease.
To answer your last question, the risk of a vaccination is miniscule compared to the alternative. I gave you an example of an outbreak earlier and also told you how the unvaccinated can place the health of others at risk. Here are some more cases for you.
"A measles outbreak in Boston is showing how the global economy opens opportunities for one of the world's most contagious viruses. Disease detectives say a computer programmer from India brought the virus to Boston's tallest office tower. The outbreak reveals that millions of Americans in their 30s and 40s are vulnerable to measles, even though they were vaccinated years ago."
"Although 30 million measles cases occur annually worldwide, endemic disease was eliminated from the U.S. in 2000, principally due to widespread use of measles vaccine. In 2005, a measles outbreak involving at least 34 persons occurred in Indiana, where 98% of school-age children have received the recommended two doses of vaccine.
The index case was an unvaccinated 17-year-old girl who had traveled on a church mission to a Romanian orphanage and was incubating measles upon her return. The next day, while experiencing prodromal symptoms, she attended a large church gathering. Thirty-three additional people subsequently developed measles in three generations of spread; disease was confirmed by laboratory studies, or by epidemiologic linkage to a laboratory-confirmed case and presence of the characteristic rash and ≥2 associated symptoms. Measles virus, isolated from six patients, belonged to a genotype (D4) known to be endemic in Romania. Thirty of the measles patients (88%) were <20 years old; of these, 20 (67%) were home-schooled. Thirty-two patients (94%) had not received vaccine, and three (9%) required hospitalization. Interviews with six families that had declined vaccination revealed concerns related to media reports of the vaccine’s dangers (e.g., a postulated association with autism, and perceived adverse effects of the vaccine preservative thimerosal). Public health measures contained the outbreak, at a cost of $167,685.
Comment: Failure to vaccinate, not vaccine failure, facilitated this measles outbreak. False claims about the risks of measles vaccine, abetted by media coverage, led parents to decline vaccination for their children. Enhanced communication strategies concerning measles vaccine are needed if future measles outbreaks are to be prevented."
The scare tactics are the ones perpetrated by those against vaccinations. And they can lead to terrible consequences. There is a reason we do not see these kind of diseases in large numbers in the States and elsewhere...............vaccinations. I mentioned earlier that the success rate of said vaccinations might be their downfall and help fuel the conspiracy theories.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Um, I am actively involved in this field, even did a stint at the CDC in my undergrad days, I've worked with some of the best in the field. I'm curious where you obtain your info from. Perhaps you could link us to some peer reviewed papers backing your claims. My research does not come from quacks or conspiracy theory websites, but published results. Show me a peer reviewed paper backing your claims. And it is ridiculous to suggest that babies have a natural defense from diseases, such as whooping cough, measles, etc. What an uneducated statement!
OK, try looking up Dr. Sherry Tenpenny. She has written quite a bit on this topic and travels extensively to discuss this with colleagues. To educate the public.
Or Dr. David Ayoub. He has exposed the growing amount of scientific evidence between vaccines and neurodevelopmental disorders through papers, lectures and conferences.
You must also be aware of the research done by Dr. Vera Schribner and her video "Vaccination...the hidden truth".
The list goes on and on. Anti-immz organizations are popping up left and right. The info is getting out and doctors are picking up on it. The holistic approach is becoming more and more prominent in the field of medicine.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
LOL I do not need to "look at the information you provided" because I do this for a living. I have and continue to read pretty much every article out there. This is a topic of disucssion regularly had between colleagues. Who do you think you are? The misinformation comes from those like you who refuse to see beyond what you are force fed.
What is your field? One of mine is the area of microbiology, immunology, and virology. I have actively participated in the studies and research. What I know is what I have learned in my profession through research I have participated in. You have not provided anything here bu your opinion, no links to papers or otherwise.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
GARDASIL was efficacious against HPV disease caused by each of the 4 vaccine HPV types.
In a pre-defined analysis, the efficacy of GARDASIL against HPV 16/18-related disease was 100% (95% CI: 87.9%, 100.0%) for CIN 3 or AIS and 100% (95% CI: 55.5%, 100.0%) for VIN 2/3 or VaIN 2/3. The efficacy of GARDASIL against HPV 6-, 11-, 16-, and 18-related VIN 1 or VaIN 1 was 100% (95% CI: 75.8%, 100.0%). These analyses were conducted in the PPE population that consisted of individuals who received all 3 vaccinations within 1 year of enrollment, did not have major deviations from the study protocol, and were naïve (PCR negative and seronegative) to the relevant HPV type(s) (Types 6, 11, 16, and 18) prior to dose 1 and through 1 month Postdose 3 (Month 7).
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
OK, try looking up Dr. Sherry Tenpenny. She has written quite a bit on this topic and travels extensively to discuss this with colleagues. To educate the public.
Or Dr. David Ayoub. He has exposed the growing amount of scientific evidence between vaccines and neurodevelopmental disorders through papers, lectures and conferences.
You must also be aware of the research done by Dr. Vera Schribner and her video "Vaccination...the hidden truth".
The list goes on and on. Anti-immz organizations are popping up left and right. The info is getting out and doctors are picking up on it. The holistic approach is becoming more and more prominent in the field of medicine.
It is true that Gardasil does not protect against all types of HPV, so it will not prevent all cervical cancer. But to say it doesn't protect against cervical cancer at all is a fallacy. Forgive me for my bias, but I tend to side more with CDC and the majority of those in the field.
Also, I am not against holistic approaches at all. What I am against is someone who claims to be in health care proclaiming that ALL vaccinations are unnecessary. This is reckless and dangerous for all the reasons I've given earlier.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
GARDASIL was efficacious against HPV disease caused by each of the 4 vaccine HPV types.
In a pre-defined analysis, the efficacy of GARDASIL against HPV 16/18-related disease was 100% (95% CI: 87.9%, 100.0%) for CIN 3 or AIS and 100% (95% CI: 55.5%, 100.0%) for VIN 2/3 or VaIN 2/3. The efficacy of GARDASIL against HPV 6-, 11-, 16-, and 18-related VIN 1 or VaIN 1 was 100% (95% CI: 75.8%, 100.0%). These analyses were conducted in the PPE population that consisted of individuals who received all 3 vaccinations within 1 year of enrollment, did not have major deviations from the study protocol, and were naïve (PCR negative and seronegative) to the relevant HPV type(s) (Types 6, 11, 16, and 18) prior to dose 1 and through 1 month Postdose 3 (Month 7).
I guess the FDA is part of the conspiracy :rolleyes:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Oh and I forgot...
here is a link that lists all the nasty little ingredients you routinely inject into your children when you allow them to get vaccines. Notice that this is a 2007 CDC listing. It is officially entitled the Excipient and Media Summary.
Hmmm...lets evaluate one major multiple dose vaccine a child gets starting at age 2 months.....
DTP, TDaP, DTaP: has aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, formaldehyde, gelatin, glutaraldehyde, hydrochloric acid, neomycin, phenoxyethanol, phosphate buffers, polymixin B, polysorbate 80, note the trace amounts of thermerosal still in vaccines.
I couldn't find this link before, but dug it up ...I love this breakdown it is much easier to read. It also offers the manufacturers information and breaks the ingredients down nicely. I have another somewhere I will have to scan in that tells what each of these ingredients does and its side effects. Of course you could always look this up for yourselves. But Baraka has problems doing that so I thought it would be easier to do it for her. Although I am suprised that as a "professional" in this field that she doesn't know this info already. http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
I guess the FDA is part of the conspiracy :rolleyes:
Yea, watch out for that Robert Gallo too, that guy is a conspirator.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Oh and I forgot...
here is a link that lists all the nasty little ingredients you routinely inject into your children when you allow them to get vaccines. Notice that this is a 2007 CDC listing. It is officially entitled the Excipient and Media Summary.
Hmmm...lets evaluate one major multiple dose vaccine a child gets starting at age 2 months.....
DTP, TDaP, DTaP: has aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, formaldehyde, gelatin, glutaraldehyde, hydrochloric acid, neomycin, phenoxyethanol, phosphate buffers, polymixin B, polysorbate 80, note the trace amounts of thermerosal still in vaccines.
I couldn't find this link before, but dug it up ...I love this breakdown it is much easier to read. It also offers the manufacturers information and breaks the ingredients down nicely. I have another somewhere I will have to scan in that tells what each of these ingredients does and its side effects. Of course you could always look this up for yourselves. But Baraka has problems doing that so I thought it would be easier to do it for her. Although I am suprised that as a "professional" in this field that she doesn't know this info already. http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html
Nice try, I have posted several links, links that you have failed to understand, and it is obvious you have also failed to understand the links you just provided. Look at those links again pertaining to thimerosal. Also I will note, that even though thimerosal has been removed from most vaccinations, there was never proven link to adverse affects, it was basically removed to appease the concerns of the general public. Again, you are just crying wolf here, with no credible sources or studies to back up your claims.
The FDA & CDC does NOT claim there are no risks with vaccinations. But again the risks have been proven to be miniscule. So what is the alternative? To revive horrible communicable diseases? Sorry, I'll take my chances with the vaccinations. Some links for the rest that might be interested. I know you stated earlier that you don't need to read the evidence.
The CDC site is a good source and one can find all substances listed in vaccinations. The CDC & FDA do not hide any of the info.
More info from on of my favorite sources concerning autisim research with vaccinations since I think that this is where you are going with your propaganda:
you are a fake and a dangerous one at that.
Thimerosal has no adverse reactions????? Are you serious?
I suppose you let your kids play with mercury too!
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
you are a fake and a dangerous one at that.
Thimerosal has no adverse reactions????? Are you serious?
I suppose you let your kids play with mercury too!
Projecting are we?
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
you are a fake and a dangerous one at that.
Thimerosal has no adverse reactions????? Are you serious?
I suppose you let your kids play with mercury too!
Oh, and I'm not the one advocating that folks not get vaccinated or get their children vaccinated. And by adverse affects, I meant Autism.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
This is a good link with straight up facts, the good and the bad. A snip to clarify my statement about thirmersal.
"Almost all of those infected had previously refused the vaccine for fear of side-effects, the researchers said. Some groups say vaccines preserved with a mercury compound called thimerosal can cause autism and other disorders.
The U.S. Institute of Medicine says studies show no link with autism, but media reports and campaigns by the anti-thimerosal groups persist. The ingredient has been removed from all U.S. childhood vaccines except the flu vaccine." http://www.healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/vaccines-rubeola.htm
Whew, now I'm off to bed........
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
This is a good link with straight up facts, the good and the bad. A snip to clarify my statement about thirmersal.
"Almost all of those infected had previously refused the vaccine for fear of side-effects, the researchers said. Some groups say vaccines preserved with a mercury compound called thimerosal can cause autism and other disorders.
The U.S. Institute of Medicine says studies show no link with autism, but media reports and campaigns by the anti-thimerosal groups persist. The ingredient has been removed from all U.S. childhood vaccines except the flu vaccine." http://www.healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/vaccines-rubeola.htm
Whew, now I'm off to bed........
hmmm...I wonder why then the same FDA organization that claims mercury poisoning via thimerosal is not linked to Autism or other illnesses, routinely advises pregnant women and children against ingesting fish due to mercury levels. It seems the "safe" exposure to such substances is extremely low.
Such a conundrum.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
you are a fake and a dangerous one at that.
Thimerosal has no adverse reactions????? Are you serious?
I suppose you let your kids play with mercury too!
I played with mercury when I was a kid. Fun stuff.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Your life has so many barriers, its hard to believe it is possible for you to exist at all...
Quit feeling sorry for yourself and have the courage to say NO to diagnosis of adhd and your genes keeping you fat.
Just because I am educated about my health and my body should in no way imply that I at any point in time feel sorry for myself. I take full responsibility for my own health. But if you really think that people never get sick and that there is no such thing as disease that can make people unhealthy... well... that's just ignorant. And I feel sorry for you.
But God! You must be the most healthy person on the planet. And if you get sick I'll be the first one to point my finger and say... Stop dying of cancer you fucking moron and take personal responsibility for your own health!
PS. Welcome to my ignore list asshole. I really don't have time in my busy life to deal with you. I've got an exercise class to go to.
Syndrome X was discussed in the HHMI lecture, but I don't recall PCOS being mentioned. It sounds common, I thought PWS was the most common occuring 1 in 12,000 to 15,000 people.
I didn't mean to mislead you Ahnimus. When I said that Syndrome X was the most common I was specifically talking about metabolic conditions associated with both PCOS and Diabetes. I wasn't trying to imply that it was the most common genetic condition associated with obesity.
PCOS is the leading cause of infertility in women though. It's really the hidden epidemic. Some studies show that 1 in 10 women have it.
Well, when I was a kid, there was autism. Now, there is autism spectrum disorder, PDD and lots of other made up bullshit. Real autism is a REAL problem. Not being 85% social, 15% intellectual doesn't make you "on the spectrum", it makes you an engineer! I've seen both.
First of all not being social and being really smart are 2 of MANY symptoms of Autism. But they are not the only 2. And as far as I can tell the primary sign of Autism is verbal... or more specifically being non-verbal. And being developmentally delayed--and that in no way means retarded. My mom just went for training on Autism (she's a child therapist). We talked about some of this stuff, but I can't say I know too much about it. That's basically the extent of my knowledge.
Yes, I know that there are metabolic differences between people. I tend to gain weight, my sister has to fight to keep from losing weight. Full blooded relations, just different metabolisms.
What has changed to make the younger generation the heaviest in ages? Lifestyle! Kids get little to no exercise. I'll put a lot of blame on AC and TV. Now that it is comfortable in the house in the summer, who wants to go outside? Sit and play a video game, play on the computer, or watch one of a billion TV channels. Moronic parents even put TV's in kids' rooms! Another problem? The sensationalist media. When shown pictures, more people would recognize Jon Bennet Ramsey than would recognize Dick Cheney! This is one little kid, probably killed by her own family, but none the less, one crime, in one neighborhood, yet everyone heard about it, and saw it, and blah, blah, blah! The sensationalist media has scared the hell out of most parents. The ones who don't understand math, so they have no idea how small the chances of anything actually happening to their kid are. Since the parents are afraid, the kids can't ever PLAY. The parents probably roamed the neighborhood for hours at a time, their parents having no real idea where they were, or what they were doing. Sure, the parents sign the kids up for activities, like martial arts, one day per week, for 45 minutes, but exercise wise, that doesn't compare to spending 4 hours playing every conceivable outdoor game with the neighborhood kids, or riding bikes for a few hours. Marry the massive reduction of exercise with the horrible increase in the percentage of grains and sugars as staples of the diet, leading to blood sugar surges and crashes, and insulin issues, of course kid are getting fat! My kids aren't fat. They play outside. They don't eat a bunch of crap. No freaking fruit roll-up crap. They eat real foods, not Frankenfoods. Take away the juice, and give the kid a piece of fruit. Far lower in calories, and actually has fiber and nutrients.
Do we evolve and change in response to our environment? Yes, of course we do. Are all of the maladies of today things that we can blame our grandparents for? NO! People need to stand up, and be accountable for themselves, NOW! What happens to you isn't all what was put upon you, beyond your control! You CAN control your surroundings to a far greater degree than you may want to bother with. Push away from the table. Put down the sugary soda, eat some real food, and get some darn exercise. Read a book to exercise your brain.
Okay. I would like to clarify something. I know that kids are getting fat because of a high fat diets and sedentary lifestyle. I'm not trying to deny that. But that is not the issue here. At least that's not what I'm talking about. Let me reiterate that what I'm referring to is specifically people who eat right and exercise (like I do) and who still cling to weight and can't lose it-- then I think there must be a genetic or medical reason for that. And I don't believe its something every person can control, not necessarily. Not all the time.
MahoganySoul, nobody in the medical profession is suggesting that safer vaccinations are not the way to go. Also, no one is suggesting that studies on questionable preservatives, such as thimersal should not take place. They did and although results were not conclusive, it was still a good idea to remove it from most vaccinations, esp the ones that pertain to children. Also, we have moved toward a single dose method where such preservatives will not be necessary.
We should absolutely study and research possible & potential causal links between environmental exposure and disease. And such research has been performed and will continue to be performed to ensure our safety.Keep in mind those of us in the profession also have children and want the safest vaccinations for them.
I don't question your concerns at all. We should ask questions and research the answers. The folks in this area are doing just that. What I took issue with is your absolute statement recommending children should not be vaccinated at all. That is a bit reckless by any medical professionals standard. In your initial post that I first responded to, I found much truth there. Hell, I would probably agree as to when certain vaccinations should take place, etc. Also, since vaccinations are mandated by law in most states, we better be damn sure these things pose little risk.
I really think, like I stated earlier, that one of the downfalls of vaccinations is their success rate. We have not had to experience the horrors of polio, pertussis, etc. I had a childhood friend that died from something thought of quite mild back in the day, chickenpox.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
MahoganySoul, nobody in the medical profession is suggesting that safer vaccinations are not the way to go. Also, no one is suggesting that studies on questionable preservatives, such as thimersal should not take place. They did and although results were not conclusive, it was still a good idea to remove it from most vaccinations, esp the ones that pertain to children. Also, we have moved toward a single dose method where such preservatives will not be necessary.
We should absolutely study and research possible & potential causal links between environmental exposure and disease. And such research has been performed and will continue to be performed to ensure our safety.Keep in mind those of us in the profession also have children and want the safest vaccinations for them.
I don't question your concerns at all. We should ask questions and research the answers. The folks in this area are doing just that. What I took issue with is your absolute statement recommending children should not be vaccinated at all. That is a bit reckless by any medical professionals standard. In your initial post that I first responded to, I found much truth there. Hell, I would probably agree as to when certain vaccinations should take place, etc. Also, since vaccinations are mandated by law in most states, we better be damn sure these things pose little risk.
I really think, like I stated earlier, that one of the downfalls of vaccinations is their success rate. We have not had to experience the horrors of polio, pertussis, etc. I had a childhood friend that died from something thought of quite mild back in the day, chickenpox.
I agree with you Baraka, but I still don't want my children vaccinated until I can be personally assured, and I just don't see that happening. I will not let anybody put mercury into my baby. And until there is a safe vaccine then I'm not going to risk it. And how will I know if there is a safe vaccine? Do I trust doctors who told me the last ones were safe? This is just something that really scares me. And I don't even have kids... yet.
Comments
Um, I am actively involved in this field, even did a stint at the CDC in my undergrad days, I've worked with some of the best in the field. I'm curious where you obtain your info from. Perhaps you could link us to some peer reviewed papers backing your claims. My research does not come from quacks or conspiracy theory websites, but published results. Show me a peer reviewed paper backing your claims. And it is ridiculous to suggest that babies have a natural defense from diseases, such as whooping cough, measles, etc. What an uneducated statement!
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I'm just bored. It's my sixth work day in a row and it's boring. I'll be here for another two hours, then I'm home playing Wii.
I got this DVD from HHMI called "2000 and Beyond: The Microbe Menace" that covers the future of infectious diseases. I haven't watched it yet, but it looks interesting. It can be viewed online here http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/disease/lectures.html
Wrong, thimerosal was removed from all vaccinations with the exception of some flu shots as of 2003. Did you not look at the CDC link I provided? I will provide it again for you reading enjoyment.
I have to say, of all the discussions I've been involved in on AMT, this one really boils my blood. I can not stress the danger of misinformation like this. Over a year ago, three people in Indiana were hospitalized last year after a 17-year-old girl carried measles back from Romania. It spread to 34 people because many in her community had refused to be vaccinated due to an irrational fear spread by misinformation.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
What is truly a disservice to patients is to not inform them fully. Anyone who lives in a major country like the US or Australia are not at significant risk for diseases of the past such as polio, whooping cough, smallpox etc. Things like Hep B vaccine only treats one strain in the family of Hepatitis. Same with the new HPV vaccine being pushed on preteen girls. Flu vaccine only treats the strain of flu that is "expected" to be strongest in the next season. The list goes on and on.
Vaccine necessity is a fallicy in todays society. Unless you are traveling to a third world country where major communicable disease is highly likely to be contracted, children and babies do not need to be immunized.
If a person chooses to vaccinate their child, at the very least they should do single immunizations. Not multiple. They should also highly weigh the dangers vs. the risks of contracting unseen diseases such as polio or diptheria. The rest also need careful evaluation as to exposure rates. How often will a child actually come into a risk for acquiring hepatitis or measles and mumps. The chickenpox vaccine is one of the newer ones that again has very little merit behind it. Chickenpox was a rite of passage for centuries. With very few people developing significant problems from it or dying. But now parents are pushed with scare tactics to get their kids immunized against this very minor disease. With I might add, a huge breathrough rate. So again I ask you, do the risks outweight the complications or possibility of disease.
Yeah, how embarrassment, I got no clue about these Wii thingies.
But 6 days of work would suck! :(
Are we talking infectious like streptococci, meningicocci and staphlococous or like those scary superbug f**kers that are coming for us all? :eek:
Thanks for the link.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
This thread right now looks like that documentary, without the evidence.
To answer your last question, the risk of a vaccination is miniscule compared to the alternative. I gave you an example of an outbreak earlier and also told you how the unvaccinated can place the health of others at risk. Here are some more cases for you.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5500100
"A measles outbreak in Boston is showing how the global economy opens opportunities for one of the world's most contagious viruses. Disease detectives say a computer programmer from India brought the virus to Boston's tallest office tower. The outbreak reveals that millions of Americans in their 30s and 40s are vulnerable to measles, even though they were vaccinated years ago."
A link to the case I provided earlier: http://infectious-diseases.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2006/802/1
"Although 30 million measles cases occur annually worldwide, endemic disease was eliminated from the U.S. in 2000, principally due to widespread use of measles vaccine. In 2005, a measles outbreak involving at least 34 persons occurred in Indiana, where 98% of school-age children have received the recommended two doses of vaccine.
The index case was an unvaccinated 17-year-old girl who had traveled on a church mission to a Romanian orphanage and was incubating measles upon her return. The next day, while experiencing prodromal symptoms, she attended a large church gathering. Thirty-three additional people subsequently developed measles in three generations of spread; disease was confirmed by laboratory studies, or by epidemiologic linkage to a laboratory-confirmed case and presence of the characteristic rash and ≥2 associated symptoms. Measles virus, isolated from six patients, belonged to a genotype (D4) known to be endemic in Romania. Thirty of the measles patients (88%) were <20 years old; of these, 20 (67%) were home-schooled. Thirty-two patients (94%) had not received vaccine, and three (9%) required hospitalization. Interviews with six families that had declined vaccination revealed concerns related to media reports of the vaccine’s dangers (e.g., a postulated association with autism, and perceived adverse effects of the vaccine preservative thimerosal). Public health measures contained the outbreak, at a cost of $167,685.
Comment: Failure to vaccinate, not vaccine failure, facilitated this measles outbreak. False claims about the risks of measles vaccine, abetted by media coverage, led parents to decline vaccination for their children. Enhanced communication strategies concerning measles vaccine are needed if future measles outbreaks are to be prevented."
The scare tactics are the ones perpetrated by those against vaccinations. And they can lead to terrible consequences. There is a reason we do not see these kind of diseases in large numbers in the States and elsewhere...............vaccinations. I mentioned earlier that the success rate of said vaccinations might be their downfall and help fuel the conspiracy theories.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Or Dr. David Ayoub. He has exposed the growing amount of scientific evidence between vaccines and neurodevelopmental disorders through papers, lectures and conferences.
Or maybe in your "extensive research" you have read the article which I happen to have a link for regarding the FDA's knowledge that Gardisil does not actually protect against cervical cancer yet approved it anyways.
http://www.nmaseminars.com/files/Gardasi_%20NOT_PROVEN_to_prevent_cancer.doc
You must also be aware of the research done by Dr. Vera Schribner and her video "Vaccination...the hidden truth".
The list goes on and on. Anti-immz organizations are popping up left and right. The info is getting out and doctors are picking up on it. The holistic approach is becoming more and more prominent in the field of medicine.
What is your field? One of mine is the area of microbiology, immunology, and virology. I have actively participated in the studies and research. What I know is what I have learned in my profession through research I have participated in. You have not provided anything here bu your opinion, no links to papers or otherwise.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
This segment is from the second episode of House and about baby vaccination.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsK7Jt-xma4
http://www.fda.gov/cber/label/hpvmer040307LB.pdf
GARDASIL was efficacious against HPV disease caused by each of the 4 vaccine HPV types.
In a pre-defined analysis, the efficacy of GARDASIL against HPV 16/18-related disease was 100% (95% CI: 87.9%, 100.0%) for CIN 3 or AIS and 100% (95% CI: 55.5%, 100.0%) for VIN 2/3 or VaIN 2/3. The efficacy of GARDASIL against HPV 6-, 11-, 16-, and 18-related VIN 1 or VaIN 1 was 100% (95% CI: 75.8%, 100.0%). These analyses were conducted in the PPE population that consisted of individuals who received all 3 vaccinations within 1 year of enrollment, did not have major deviations from the study protocol, and were naïve (PCR negative and seronegative) to the relevant HPV type(s) (Types 6, 11, 16, and 18) prior to dose 1 and through 1 month Postdose 3 (Month 7).
It is true that Gardasil does not protect against all types of HPV, so it will not prevent all cervical cancer. But to say it doesn't protect against cervical cancer at all is a fallacy. Forgive me for my bias, but I tend to side more with CDC and the majority of those in the field.
Also, I am not against holistic approaches at all. What I am against is someone who claims to be in health care proclaiming that ALL vaccinations are unnecessary. This is reckless and dangerous for all the reasons I've given earlier.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I guess the FDA is part of the conspiracy :rolleyes:
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
here is a link that lists all the nasty little ingredients you routinely inject into your children when you allow them to get vaccines. Notice that this is a 2007 CDC listing. It is officially entitled the Excipient and Media Summary.
http://users.adelphia.net/~cdc/MSDSwithVaxInsertInfo.pdf
or here
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf
Hmmm...lets evaluate one major multiple dose vaccine a child gets starting at age 2 months.....
DTP, TDaP, DTaP: has aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, formaldehyde, gelatin, glutaraldehyde, hydrochloric acid, neomycin, phenoxyethanol, phosphate buffers, polymixin B, polysorbate 80, note the trace amounts of thermerosal still in vaccines.
I couldn't find this link before, but dug it up ...I love this breakdown it is much easier to read. It also offers the manufacturers information and breaks the ingredients down nicely. I have another somewhere I will have to scan in that tells what each of these ingredients does and its side effects. Of course you could always look this up for yourselves. But Baraka has problems doing that so I thought it would be easier to do it for her. Although I am suprised that as a "professional" in this field that she doesn't know this info already.
http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html
Yea, watch out for that Robert Gallo too, that guy is a conspirator.
Nice try, I have posted several links, links that you have failed to understand, and it is obvious you have also failed to understand the links you just provided. Look at those links again pertaining to thimerosal. Also I will note, that even though thimerosal has been removed from most vaccinations, there was never proven link to adverse affects, it was basically removed to appease the concerns of the general public. Again, you are just crying wolf here, with no credible sources or studies to back up your claims.
The FDA & CDC does NOT claim there are no risks with vaccinations. But again the risks have been proven to be miniscule. So what is the alternative? To revive horrible communicable diseases? Sorry, I'll take my chances with the vaccinations. Some links for the rest that might be interested. I know you stated earlier that you don't need to read the evidence.
The CDC site is a good source and one can find all substances listed in vaccinations. The CDC & FDA do not hide any of the info.
http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/thimerosal.htm
The FDA site pertaining to your scare tactic above:
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/095_vacc.html
General issue of vaccination safety:
http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/
A nice article dispelling a concern about MMR, one of the childhood immunizations:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1429115,00.html
More info from on of my favorite sources concerning autisim research with vaccinations since I think that this is where you are going with your propaganda:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15877763&query_hl=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15858952&query_hl=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15366972&query_hl=12
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12421889&query_hl=12
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Thimerosal has no adverse reactions????? Are you serious?
I suppose you let your kids play with mercury too!
Projecting are we?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Oh, and I'm not the one advocating that folks not get vaccinated or get their children vaccinated. And by adverse affects, I meant Autism.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
"Almost all of those infected had previously refused the vaccine for fear of side-effects, the researchers said. Some groups say vaccines preserved with a mercury compound called thimerosal can cause autism and other disorders.
The U.S. Institute of Medicine says studies show no link with autism, but media reports and campaigns by the anti-thimerosal groups persist. The ingredient has been removed from all U.S. childhood vaccines except the flu vaccine."
http://www.healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/vaccines-rubeola.htm
Whew, now I'm off to bed........
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
hmmm...I wonder why then the same FDA organization that claims mercury poisoning via thimerosal is not linked to Autism or other illnesses, routinely advises pregnant women and children against ingesting fish due to mercury levels. It seems the "safe" exposure to such substances is extremely low.
Such a conundrum.
I played with mercury when I was a kid. Fun stuff.
Just because I am educated about my health and my body should in no way imply that I at any point in time feel sorry for myself. I take full responsibility for my own health. But if you really think that people never get sick and that there is no such thing as disease that can make people unhealthy... well... that's just ignorant. And I feel sorry for you.
But God! You must be the most healthy person on the planet. And if you get sick I'll be the first one to point my finger and say... Stop dying of cancer you fucking moron and take personal responsibility for your own health!
PS. Welcome to my ignore list asshole. I really don't have time in my busy life to deal with you. I've got an exercise class to go to.
Peace and Love
Deni
I didn't mean to mislead you Ahnimus. When I said that Syndrome X was the most common I was specifically talking about metabolic conditions associated with both PCOS and Diabetes. I wasn't trying to imply that it was the most common genetic condition associated with obesity.
PCOS is the leading cause of infertility in women though. It's really the hidden epidemic. Some studies show that 1 in 10 women have it.
Peace and Love
Deni
First of all not being social and being really smart are 2 of MANY symptoms of Autism. But they are not the only 2. And as far as I can tell the primary sign of Autism is verbal... or more specifically being non-verbal. And being developmentally delayed--and that in no way means retarded. My mom just went for training on Autism (she's a child therapist). We talked about some of this stuff, but I can't say I know too much about it. That's basically the extent of my knowledge.
Okay. I would like to clarify something. I know that kids are getting fat because of a high fat diets and sedentary lifestyle. I'm not trying to deny that. But that is not the issue here. At least that's not what I'm talking about. Let me reiterate that what I'm referring to is specifically people who eat right and exercise (like I do) and who still cling to weight and can't lose it-- then I think there must be a genetic or medical reason for that. And I don't believe its something every person can control, not necessarily. Not all the time.
Peace and Love
Deni
We should absolutely study and research possible & potential causal links between environmental exposure and disease. And such research has been performed and will continue to be performed to ensure our safety.Keep in mind those of us in the profession also have children and want the safest vaccinations for them.
I don't question your concerns at all. We should ask questions and research the answers. The folks in this area are doing just that. What I took issue with is your absolute statement recommending children should not be vaccinated at all. That is a bit reckless by any medical professionals standard. In your initial post that I first responded to, I found much truth there. Hell, I would probably agree as to when certain vaccinations should take place, etc. Also, since vaccinations are mandated by law in most states, we better be damn sure these things pose little risk.
I really think, like I stated earlier, that one of the downfalls of vaccinations is their success rate. We have not had to experience the horrors of polio, pertussis, etc. I had a childhood friend that died from something thought of quite mild back in the day, chickenpox.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I agree with you Baraka, but I still don't want my children vaccinated until I can be personally assured, and I just don't see that happening. I will not let anybody put mercury into my baby. And until there is a safe vaccine then I'm not going to risk it. And how will I know if there is a safe vaccine? Do I trust doctors who told me the last ones were safe? This is just something that really scares me. And I don't even have kids... yet.
*edited for typo*
Peace and Love
Deni