Epigenetics

Jeanie

baraka wrote:

Hi Jeanie! I couldn't play the video on my computer, but your comment got me thinking. The body responds to environmental factors all the time; we have to in order to maintain homeostasis. Once those factors are detected by the appropriate receptor-containing cells, signal transduction pathways lead to gene regulation so the cells respond appropriately. In other words, gene expression is regulated by a lot of molecules within a cell, so when some external signal is received by an appropriate type of receptor on the cell, the receptor recruits in a variety of other molecules, and a cascade of molecular reactions and/or interactions occurs in the cytoplasm of the cell. Some of those molecules can get into the nucleus, and either directly act on chromosomes to change the rate of transcription (increase or decrease the expression of that gene) of some target genes. Which target genes are affected depends on special parts of the genetic sequence known as promoters, where the transcription factors "dock." People make careers out of studying just one pathway. But we definitely interact with our environment, so there must be ways for environmental signals to influence gene expression.

Yes! I can't believe I actually understood all that! Thank you Tracy!

I guess I'm looking at it from more of laymen's pov, in that I'm wondering in terms of his research, if he mentioned the individuals responsibility to their markers by their lifestyle that he perhaps already had preconcieved ideas about the outcomes of his research? Not saying that he shouldn't have a theory on it or be looking at it from a particular perspective. It just seems that so many doctors and researchers these days are investigating these things with the concept of an individual's personal responsibilty for their lifestyle in mind, to the exclusion of other factors, and if this already slants their perspective?
I'm probably not making sense. I just wonder what they would discover if they dropped this personal responsibility juggernaut that many seem to have adopted in recent times and looked at all the factors or potential effects that could influence a persons genetic make up and disease outcomes? Obviously they do have to look at everything, personal and external contributors but I wonder at the objectivity. I mean using his example who's to say that the cause of the obesity epidemic wasn't initiated by the influx of antibiotics that seemed to have been over prescribed a few years back? Or the use of hormones in food production that went on a while ago, or even the additives in food or exposure to more electro magnetic radiation? Maybe even the global temperature going up a few degrees is having an impact? I guess I'm thinking chicken and egg. It's the objectivity I'm questioning not the research or the methods. I've always believed that if cells could mutate to cancer because of exposure to things like asbestos, it stands to reason that exposure to other chemical or environmental factors could close down or interrupt the gene signature and lead to illness.

Scubascott

Haven't got to the video yet. But yeah, it is interesting stuff. I'm sure that in the coming years we will learn a lot more about non-DNA heritable material. Its too simple to assume that all the heritable information in a cell is coded in the DNA alone. Makes you wonder how much stuff gets missed when they clone things by nuclear transfer. We're really just in the infancy stages of understanding the real intracasies of cell biology.

Jeanie

So all you science nerds what I want to know is, potentially using the epigenetics formula, they're saying, for example, an over production of stress hormones in the body has the potential to turn off these markers and lead to disease and that potentially we could also turn them back on? But would this also apply to whatever is causing the overproduction of stress hormones?

Deni

Mestophar wrote:

The reason so many kids are fat is because they are fucking lazy and eat too much damn sugar and fatty foods. Quit blaming things on other far-off reasons when you can look in the mirror at your fat ass and quickly figure out that the mc burger in your hand is likely the cause. Do you really think an expanding into pill popping is gunna help? No, get off your ass and do some activity and stop eating whole pizzas in one sitting.

Wow! You really are an asshole.

Spoken like a person who hasn't dealt with the issue their whole fucking life! I happen to be fat, and I happen to NOT be lazy. I don't eat whole pizzas! I don't eat fast food! I eat right and exercise 3-4 times a week! I do resistance training. I swim (I love to swim), and I do Yoga and Pilates! There is something ELSE that makes it HARDER for me to lose weight than some other people. And that's a fact. We should be looking in to this! There has got to be a medical reason when a person is doing what they should be doing to be healthy and they still aren't healthy then there is usually ANOTHER REASON! A Medical reason!

On a personal note... Go fuck yourself!

baraka

Jeanie wrote:

So all you science nerds what I want to know is, potentially using the epigenetics formula, they're saying, for example, an over production of stress hormones in the body has the potential to turn off these markers and lead to disease and that potentially we could also turn them back on?

Hi Jeanie. Yes, that is what 'they' speculate. When something signals a molecule in the cell of an environmental event (or an internal event as well), either by a direct action of that environmental stimulus on the cell, or by an indirect action of other cells acting as intermediates producing molecules that stimulate that cell, a series of events happens in the cell. One common thing that happens is some of these proteins are phosphorylated, and this phosphorylation changes the shape of the protein, as well as it's energy, and allows it to function differently than before it was phosphorylated. Some of these molecules, once their function is changed, are able to get into the nucleus, where the DNA is stored. And there, they can act as transcription cofactors, which do things to help speed up transcription of DNA to RNA. Some work by opening up the DNA coiled around the histones, some by recruiting more of the transcriptional machinery, some by sitting down at special places on the DNA to say that section is the part that should be transcribed, etc.

So, to the extent that some kind of stress would involve synaptic transmission and release of neurotransmitters that would signal receptors on other neurons, there is, perhaps, the ability of stress to trigger these signal transduction pathways and affect gene expression (picking and choosing which genes get used as a template to make proteins).

Jeanie wrote:

But would this also apply to whatever is causing the overproduction of stress hormones?

I'm not sure I understand this question, but I'm dead tired too. Something else you might find interesting that perhaps they touched on in the video. Apparently, stress not only affects you, but your children & grandchildren. You might find this article interesting..........


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/ghostgenes.shtml

Jeanie

Deni wrote:

Wow! You really are an asshole.

Spoken like a person who hasn't dealt with the issue their whole fucking life! I happen to be fat, and I happen to NOT be lazy. I don't eat whole pizzas! I don't eat fast food! I eat right and exercise 3-4 times a week! I do resistance training. I swim (I love to swim), and I do Yoga and Pilates! There is something ELSE that makes it HARDER for me to lose weight than some other people. And that's a fact. We should be looking in to this! There has got to be a medical reason when a person is doing what they should be doing to be healthy and they still aren't healthy then there is usually ANOTHER REASON! A Medical reason!

On a personal note... Go fuck yourself!

Sweetie. Don't let tools offend you. Clearly he wasn't up to the conversation coz he buggered off to continue his ignorance elsewhere.

You my dear, are perfect, just the way you are AND don't let anyone tell you any different. There is so much more to the value and beauty of a human being than how much they weigh or what their BMI is and you Deni are a really cool chic who is beautiful all over, trust me. Does shine out of your posts.

An asshole will always be an asshole, you on the other hand can diet!

And I completely understand how frustrating it is to have an illness that contributes to gaining weight and makes it hard to keep it off. And lets not get started on the effects of medication on weight loss and weight gain. :rolleyes: Some of that stuff is just toxic! Just aim to be healthy love, which clearly you're doing, and don't give ignorant, bigotted people and their nasty stereotypes the time of day.

Jeanie

baraka wrote:

Hi Jeanie. Yes, that is what 'they' speculate. When something signals a molecule in the cell of an environmental event (or an internal event as well), either by a direct action of that environmental stimulus on the cell, or by an indirect action of other cells acting as intermediates producing molecules that stimulate that cell, a series of events happens in the cell. One common thing that happens is some of these proteins are phosphorylated, and this phosphorylation changes the shape of the protein, as well as it's energy, and allows it to function differently than before it was phosphorylated. Some of these molecules, once their function is changed, are able to get into the nucleus, where the DNA is stored. And there, they can act as transcription cofactors, which do things to help speed up transcription of DNA to RNA. Some work by opening up the DNA coiled around the histones, some by recruiting more of the transcriptional machinery, some by sitting down at special places on the DNA to say that section is the part that should be transcribed, etc.

So, to the extent that some kind of stress would involve synaptic transmission and release of neurotransmitters that would signal receptors on other neurons, there is, perhaps, the ability of stress to trigger these signal transduction pathways and affect gene expression (picking and choosing which genes get used as a template to make proteins).




I'm not sure I understand this question, but I'm dead tired too. Something else you might find interesting that perhaps they touched on in the video. Apparently, stress not only affects you, but your children & grandchildren. You might find this article interesting..........


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/ghostgenes.shtml

Thanks trace. I'm just flying out the door to the hairdressers but I'll be back and read this properly later.

Ahnimus

Deni wrote:

Wow! You really are an asshole.

Spoken like a person who hasn't dealt with the issue their whole fucking life! I happen to be fat, and I happen to NOT be lazy. I don't eat whole pizzas! I don't eat fast food! I eat right and exercise 3-4 times a week! I do resistance training. I swim (I love to swim), and I do Yoga and Pilates! There is something ELSE that makes it HARDER for me to lose weight than some other people. And that's a fact. We should be looking in to this! There has got to be a medical reason when a person is doing what they should be doing to be healthy and they still aren't healthy then there is usually ANOTHER REASON! A Medical reason!

On a personal note... Go fuck yourself!

In the 2004 Holiday Lectures on Science, HHMI investigators Ronald M. Evans and Jeffrey M. Friedman discuss how the body regulates weight by carefully controlling the storage and burning of fat—and how a better understanding of these complex metabolic systems could lead researchers to treatments that curb obesity and improve public health.
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/obesity/lectures.html

Deni

Jeanie wrote:

Sweetie. Don't let tools offend you. Clearly he wasn't up to the conversation coz he buggered off to continue his ignorance elsewhere.

You my dear, are perfect, just the way you are AND don't let anyone tell you any different. There is so much more to the value and beauty of a human being than how much they weigh or what their BMI is and you Deni are a really cool chic who is beautiful all over, trust me. Does shine out of your posts.

An asshole will always be an asshole, you on the other hand can diet!

And I completely understand how frustrating it is to have an illness that contributes to gaining weight and makes it hard to keep it off. And lets not get started on the effects of medication on weight loss and weight gain. :rolleyes: Some of that stuff is just toxic! Just aim to be healthy love, which clearly you're doing, and don't give ignorant, bigotted people and their nasty stereotypes the time of day.

Thank you so much for that! Its hard when everybody tells you that you're worthless. Or that you must be doing something wrong. Or that you're weak or lazy. Its easy to internalize that, and it can really get to you after a while and mess with your head. I try really hard to ignore people like that, but I have put up with taunts and name calling my whole life. Like I should for some reason be ashamed of who I am because I'm not thin. People like that, that spout that sort of bile... well, lets just say its a sore spot. That's all. They're talking out of their ass. They have no idea what they are talking about and their ignorance shows. I should remember that they are the morons and brush it off. But it just gets to me.

Maybe instead of weight I should have said, Syndrome X, Diabetes, PCOS... or a thousand other conditions that lead to weight gain. You mention weight and the thickheaded are going to end up blaming the person and call them lazy or weak. I'm just so sick to death of hearing that crap. I have diabetes and PCOS and to me blaming me because I'm fat is no different than blaming a cancer patient for being too skinny. How does that help!? Let me tell you... it doesn't. Not at all. It's not motivating, or anything. It makes them feel worthless and leads to depression. This is a fact.

I wish it didn't bother me, but it does. Ignorance is something that I just really can't tolerate.

But thank you Jeanie! You're a wonderful person! *hugs*

trappedinmyradio

or, maybe autism is a form of higher intelligence that we are incapable of understanding at this point...

Deni wrote:

I saw that segment on Nova a while ago. I think it is amazing! And I have wondered if the exploding instances of children diagnosed on the Autism Spectrum recently is due at least in part to something we are exposing our children to, and that this exposure is turning off genes or turning on redundant genes causing the Autism.

I think it may also explain the extremely high rate of obesity especially in the US. Because those of us who struggle to lose weight know that what we eat is only 50% of the battle, and that there definitely is a genetic component that makes some people carry more weight and also makes it harder to lose weight than some other people.

I think that this research may just change medicine and the world as we know it. I'd love to see this utilized in my lifetime.

Deni

Ahnimus wrote:

In the 2004 Holiday Lectures on Science, HHMI investigators Ronald M. Evans and Jeffrey M. Friedman discuss how the body regulates weight by carefully controlling the storage and burning of fat—and how a better understanding of these complex metabolic systems could lead researchers to treatments that curb obesity and improve public health.
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/obesity/lectures.html

Thanks Ahnimus!

Yes. I could list 10 different metabolic conditions that I know of just from having done my research on PCOS. There are several associated with PCOS, which is one reason why treating PCOS is so difficult. The most common condition is Syndrome X which is also connected to diabetes. Study after study has indicated that there is a significant link between Syndrome X and diabetes and almost all people who develop type 2 diabetes had Syndrome X. There is discussion now about what causes Syndrome X, whether it is a condition that pops up and causes weight gain or if weight gain causes Syndrome X. I personally believe it is the former because a person is 10 times more likely to develop Syndrome X if diabetes runs in their family (as it does in mine). Syndrome X and PCOS are basically the same thing except for in women it has many gynecological issues associated with it as in cysts on the ovaries, irregular periods, premature menopause, and infertility.

And according the epigenetic research (or at least my understanding of it) we could have to go back several generations to find the cause. It could have been something our great-grandmothers did... or an environmental factor, or an exposure to something that started it all. That's scary. We may never know. Here's hoping we can find a cure or a treatment without having to know the cause.

Deni

trappedinmyradio wrote:

or, maybe autism is a form of higher intelligence that we are incapable of understanding at this point...

I'm willing to concede that. I have a baby cousin with Aspergers. He's 8 and the smartest person I've ever met in my life. But I still think we must be doing something to cause the explosion in cases of Autism in recent years. In the past 100 years diagnoses of Autism has gone from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 150!! Yep, its something we are doing. Its gotta be. I don't necessarily believe that Autism needs to be "cured" exactly. But I would like to find out what is causing the rates we are seeing now.

I myself have ADHD combined type primarily inattentive. I know that's not technically on the Spectrum, but I've sure been hearing Aspergers and ADHD talked about together a lot lately.

Yoyoyo

Deni wrote:

I'm willing to concede that. I have a baby cousin with Aspergers. He's 8 and the smartest person I've ever met in my life. But I still think we must be doing something to cause the explosion in cases of Autism in recent years. In the past 100 years diagnoses of Autism has gone from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 150!! Yep, its something we are doing. Its gotta be. I don't necessarily believe that Autism needs to be "cured" exactly. But I would like to find out what is causing the rates we are seeing now.

I myself have ADHD combined type primarily inattentive. I know that's not technically on the Spectrum, but I've sure been hearing Aspergers and ADHD talked about together a lot lately.

Your life has so many barriers, its hard to believe it is possible for you to exist at all...

Quit feeling sorry for yourself and have the courage to say NO to diagnosis of adhd and your genes keeping you fat.

Ahnimus

Mestophar wrote:

Your life has so many barriers, its hard to believe it is possible for you to exist at all...

Quit feeling sorry for yourself and have the courage to say NO to diagnosis of adhd and your genes keeping you fat.

This is the kind of stuff that pisses me off on this board. This is what should get you banned. You aren't addressing the issues raised, you aren't here to discuss epigenetics, you won't explain a thing, you have no theory. All you are doing is attacking people.

Give a philosophical argument against science, or contest the science on scientific terms, or learn something and shut up. All your comments serve to do is antagonize people and irritate them.

butters

Mestophar wrote:

Your life has so many barriers, its hard to believe it is possible for you to exist at all...

Quit feeling sorry for yourself and have the courage to say NO to diagnosis of adhd and your genes keeping you fat.

ADHD is real, overdiagnosed, but real.

Obesity can be caused by laziness and gluttony, but it can also be purely genetic.

baraka

Mestophar wrote:

Quit feeling sorry for yourself and have the courage to say NO to diagnosis of adhd and your genes keeping you fat.

It may not account for all obesity, but there are quite a lot of recent studies out suggesting it really ISN'T as simple as you seem to think it is for folks to lose weight. I'm willing to provide you with links to papers discussing the science behind this if you are interested in learning about it. Studies of defects in production of fairly recently discovered hormones and their receptors, such as leptin, adiponectin, and melanin concentrating hormone, are showing us that losing weight is not as simple as it appears. Not only do these hormones influence satiety mechanisms, but there is also evidence from pair-feeding studies that they alter metabolism and fat deposition even if calories are restricted.

Ahnimus

baraka wrote:

It may not account for all obesity, but there are quite a lot of recent studies out suggesting it really ISN'T as simple as you seem to think it is for folks to lose weight. I'm willing to provide you with links to papers discussing the science behind this if you are interested in learning about it. Studies of defects in production of fairly recently discovered hormones and their receptors, such as leptin, adiponectin, and melanin concentrating hormone, are showing us that losing weight is not as simple as it appears. Not only do these hormones influence satiety mechanisms, but there is also evidence from pair-feeding studies that they alter metabolism and fat deposition even if calories are restricted.

I was trying to find additional information. I know of Leptin, PPAR-Gamma, Grehlin and Insulin. I know of PWS, the most common known genetic cause for obesity, but I'm unfamiliar with the other hormones you mentioned. If you have the links handy, I'm interested.

baraka

Ahnimus wrote:

I was trying to find additional information. I know of Leptin, PPAR-Gamma, Grehlin and Insulin. I know of PWS, the most common known genetic cause for obesity, but I'm unfamiliar with the other hormones you mentioned. If you have the links handy, I'm interested.

Cool, let me find them for you. Give me a minute.............

baraka

Ok, here you go..........It appears that when you lack the signals that indicate satiety, or the brain doesn't have the receptors to respond to those signals, it's not just a matter of saying, "I'm full, no thanks," to additional food, because you never feel full. Good ol' PubMed!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16941272&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16941049&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16935329&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16926531&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16926246&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16782141&query_hl=12&itool=pubmed_docsum

These are more related to these hormones altering metabolism and fat deposit.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=16733553

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14636173&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=11834436&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=8643697&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_DocSum

Without a subscription, you only get the abstract, but this gives you the 'meat' of the matter.

Ahnimus

baraka wrote:

Cool, let me find them for you. Give me a minute.............

Thanks, I'll take a look at them. I found this diagram particularly discouraging

http://www.colby.edu/chemistry/BC368/metabolism.jpg