Epigenetics
Ahnimus
Posts: 10,560
This topic should make for an interesting discussion. At least Jeanie and Scubascott will probably find it interesting.
Check out this short 13 min video from PBS Nova
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
I wonder what we can expect in terms of treatments and FDA regulations.
Check out this short 13 min video from PBS Nova
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
I wonder what we can expect in terms of treatments and FDA regulations.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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I think it may also explain the extremely high rate of obesity especially in the US. Because those of us who struggle to lose weight know that what we eat is only 50% of the battle, and that there definitely is a genetic component that makes some people carry more weight and also makes it harder to lose weight than some other people.
I think that this research may just change medicine and the world as we know it. I'd love to see this utilized in my lifetime.
Peace and Love
Deni
We are are a universe within ourselves.
hey check this out sometime
I came to this realization about 5 years ago. Theory that everything is electricity:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=4773590301316220374&q=Thunderbolts+of+the+Gods&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
watching now. I'll be back.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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*~You're IT Bert!~*
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The currents will shift
This research is thrilling because it offers a solution rather than a bandaid to illness. All too often we simply treat the symptoms in medicine rather than the cause. Epigenetics is offering a much better answer to treatment of disease. The future looks promising.
Medicine is big business though. So don't hold your breath on this, it will be a long arduous struggle to become mainstream. Anything non-traditional is often bawked at by the medical community as a whole.
Take for instance Chiropractors and Holistic medicine. Two wonderful options to treating the body rather than the symptom. Yet modern medicine turns a blind eye to it because it works differently than the "norm".
My advice for medical treatment is always to be "open minded". Don't conclude that something is right simply because the majority agree.
I for one would NEVER get chemo. Poisoning the entire body to rid it of a few mutant cells makes absolutely no sense. There are better ways to accomplish the same goal. Epigenics is proof of that.
By "The Guy" do you mean the host Neil DeGrasse Tyson?
I find he tends to take a mild devil's advocate approach to most issues outside of Astrophysics. He may have come up a bit short on this video, of course he's at the mercy of the PBS Nova producers.
Sorry, no I meant the geneticist or epigeneticist. Hang on I'll get his name. EDIT: Yeah, I think it was randy jirtle the guy that conducted the mice experiments.
He made reference to what individuals are doing to change their markers by the lifestyle they're living which is standard doctor/scientist speak these days. I was just commenting that I was disappointed that he didn't include environmental factors so much or make mention of the things that people do under medical supervision at the initiation of their doctor that could change these genes. Like there was no mention of the impact that pharmacology could play. That's what I was getting at.
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Ah, well, I think pharmacology is more strictly regulated than open market substances approved by the FDA. The research methods are pretty solid, that's not to say that there aren't drugs out there doing bad stuff to people. There probably are, but they will be caught eventually. On the other hand, everyone knows smoking is bad, yet many still do it, myself included. If tobacco were a pharamceutical it would have been instantly pulled from the shelves. Since it's a recreational substance, people are free to kill themselves with it and we continue to do so.
no no I'm not saying that the research is flawed or disagreeing that people do things to themselves, because we all do.
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The reason so many kids are fat is because they are fucking lazy and eat too much damn sugar and fatty foods. Quit blaming things on other far-off reasons when you can look in the mirror at your fat ass and quickly figure out that the mc burger in your hand is likely the cause. Do you really think an expanding into pill popping is gunna help? No, get off your ass and do some activity and stop eating whole pizzas in one sitting.
You got to spend it all
We live in a society of blame. With health care a good, healthy lifestyle is the biggest asset one has against disease. But most people don't want to accept that route because it is too much work.
While I find this to be utterly true, I do also think that genetics play a significant role in our health. So the whole field of epigenetics is very promising in that aspect.
So many sweeping generalizations so little time. :rolleyes:
Open your eyes and quit being such a finger pointer and name caller. It really does nothing to advance anything. It's just hot wind.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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Anyway, for those who don't know, epigenetics means 'outside of the genes': heritable information that is not encoded into the nucleotide sequence of the genome, such as X-chromosome inactivation and gene silencing.
With a study I remember from college, I wasn't sure if what we observed were effects of epigenetics, or effects of nurturing. For example: rats who are licked a lot by their mother as an infant were lickers themselves, whereas rats that were not licked alot (due to stress of the mother) weren't lickers themselves. Conclusion: licking is heritable, or is it learned behavior? I believe it was a cross-fostering study. I guess the clue was that no matter what the foster mother does, the litter is more likely to take on the behavior of the biological mother. But on the other hand it was said that the action of the mother imprints the behavior of the litter by released hormones during the licking, so it is a bit fuzzy.
For anyone interested in an overview on epigenetics with links to an issue of Science with more detailed articles, follow this link:http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/plus/sfg/resources/res_epigenetics.dtl
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Let me appeal to your godly knowledge of human metabolism and ask, is the irregular development of the hypothalamus, particularly the intralaminar nucleus, in patients with Prader-Willi Syndrome caused by Big Macs somehow before they are born? What about the ten other genetic causes for irregular metabolism that results typically in morbid obesity?
If you aren't familiar with Prader-Willi Syndrome, perhaps you missed the thread I created about it yesterday.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=261217
Scientists seem pretty convinced that PWS results from the deletion of several genes on Chromosome 15, in particular the one inherited from the fater. In cases where no chromosome is inherited from the father, PWS occurs, because the choromosome inherited from the mother is non-functioning.
More information on the Genetics of PWS is available here
http://www.pwsausa.org/syndrome/Genetics_of_PWS.htm
Please explain how the Big Mac causes these symptoms:
Birth to 2 y
1. Hypotonia with poor suck.
2y–6 y
1. Hypotonia with history of poor suck.
2. Global developmental delay.
6y–12 y
1. History of hypotonia with poor suck (hypotonia often persists).
2. Global developmental delay.
3. Excessive eating (hyperphagia; preoccupation with food) with central obesity if uncontrolled.
13 y through adulthood
1. Cognitive disabilities; usually mild mental retardation.
2. Excessive eating (hyperphagia; preoccupation with food) with central obesity if uncontrolled.
3. Hypothalamic hypogonadism and/or typical behavior problems (including temper tantrums, perseverative and compulsive-like behaviors).
Thank you God.
That experiment does sound rather inconclusive. It could go either way. Though, I think this is where the catagorical view of genetics vs epigenetics breaks down. It could be a combination of both.
Well, admittedly I wasn't around for the conclusions. I was actually performing a side project in the lab. But it was interesting stuff nonetheless.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Sorry I've been trying to get back to reply to this one since last night.
Anyway, I guess I wanted to make a few points. I agree that the effects of immunization have not been fully investigated and should be, but I'm not sure we want a return to the bad old days of small pox epidemics and the like. So in my view immunization is a personal choice that parents make on behalf of their children, and those that choose not to immunize need to be very careful that their children are not exposed or expose others. Having said that, I fully support peoples right to choose either way. Of course it goes without saying that I would want that to be a fully informed choice. Regarding the autism, I also thought it has been linked to a variety of causes included foetal alcohol syndrome, and lack of folate in the mother during pregnancy. And I can't find a bloody link because my memory is too vague, but I'm sure I saw something recently that had something to do with the absorption of some nutrient in the gut of mothers during pregnancy which was also contributing to the increase in both autism and adhd. I'll keep hunting around in my "internal filing cabinet" and see if I can remember enough to hunt for the research.
I have a huge interest in the effects that the increased medical intervention in hormones and hormone treatments is having on world health in general both in those ingesting the hormones and their offspring. So I'm not a big fan of too much soy or too many phytoestrogens in general, well particularly for younger women. I truly believe that the long term effects of medicines is not studied for long enough, having said that I also understand the urgency in making things available to those who would benefit. At some point people have to inform themselves and decide if they are willing to be a "guinea pig" in return for any possible benefits they may garner from treatments.
The great thing about this research is that, like stem cells, it offers a way for a person to heal "themselves" so to speak with their own cells. And I'm all for that. The bad thing about it is, like so many things that are highly beneficial and great advances in medicine, it's probably going to be hijacked by big business and will take years before, if ever, it is available as treatment for the general majority, not to mention that like most treatments it will be subjective and bureaucratic. When it comes to treatment, I never hold my breath because I'm well aware of how the system works. When it comes to the medical profession, I have no qualms about agreeing or disagreeing to the treatment options offered to me as I don't hold medical practitioners "above" me. They are doing a job and I may or may not agree with their methods or suggestions so we discuss it and they are there to ensure that I am given all the best available information and options and then ultimately, my body, my choice. All of my doctors and specialists are aware this is my attitude and I thorougly recommend that others adopt it as theirs. Blindly following anyone, even when you're sick can get you killed or worse.
With regard to the chemo, it's vile stuff, BUT it afforded my grandmother another 4 years that she would otherwise not have had with us, and I support her and anyone else that wants to use it as a treatment option. Ultimately it's personal choice, so if it's not your thing, that's cool, I'm just not sure what my decision would be regarding chemo if the situation arises for me.
And finally to alternative therapies. Always my attitude to my health is to inform myself and try and/or utilize the best possible treatments for me. So this would apply to alternative therapies in some cases. I am guided by what works for me and my instincts. When it comes to your health the best thing you can do is know yourself and your body as best you can.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
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I've read dozens of folk theories about immunology causing autism and so on, as of yet, I haven't found one that stands up to scrutiny. To me, autism remains a mystery.
Hi Jeanie! I couldn't play the video on my computer, but your comment got me thinking. The body responds to environmental factors all the time; we have to in order to maintain homeostasis. Once those factors are detected by the appropriate receptor-containing cells, signal transduction pathways lead to gene regulation so the cells respond appropriately. In other words, gene expression is regulated by a lot of molecules within a cell, so when some external signal is received by an appropriate type of receptor on the cell, the receptor recruits in a variety of other molecules, and a cascade of molecular reactions and/or interactions occurs in the cytoplasm of the cell. Some of those molecules can get into the nucleus, and either directly act on chromosomes to change the rate of transcription (increase or decrease the expression of that gene) of some target genes. Which target genes are affected depends on special parts of the genetic sequence known as promoters, where the transcription factors "dock." People make careers out of studying just one pathway. But we definitely interact with our environment, so there must be ways for environmental signals to influence gene expression.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Woot! That actually made sense to me. I think I'm starting to get a handle on the basics. To clarify, the cytoplasm is the cell body, or membrane, or is that junk the cells inhabit?
This illustrates nicely the problem I have with thinking of genes and environment catagorically. Clearly they interact with each other in complex ways. But, I'm confident few scientists ascribe to the old nature vs nurture dichotomy.
Yes!
I guess I'm looking at it from more of laymen's pov, in that I'm wondering in terms of his research, if he mentioned the individuals responsibility to their markers by their lifestyle that he perhaps already had preconcieved ideas about the outcomes of his research? Not saying that he shouldn't have a theory on it or be looking at it from a particular perspective. It just seems that so many doctors and researchers these days are investigating these things with the concept of an individual's personal responsibilty for their lifestyle in mind, to the exclusion of other factors, and if this already slants their perspective?
I'm probably not making sense.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
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-C Addison
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Wow! You really are an asshole.
Spoken like a person who hasn't dealt with the issue their whole fucking life! I happen to be fat, and I happen to NOT be lazy. I don't eat whole pizzas! I don't eat fast food! I eat right and exercise 3-4 times a week! I do resistance training. I swim (I love to swim), and I do Yoga and Pilates! There is something ELSE that makes it HARDER for me to lose weight than some other people. And that's a fact. We should be looking in to this! There has got to be a medical reason when a person is doing what they should be doing to be healthy and they still aren't healthy then there is usually ANOTHER REASON! A Medical reason!
On a personal note... Go fuck yourself!
Peace and Love
Deni
Hi Jeanie. Yes, that is what 'they' speculate. When something signals a molecule in the cell of an environmental event (or an internal event as well), either by a direct action of that environmental stimulus on the cell, or by an indirect action of other cells acting as intermediates producing molecules that stimulate that cell, a series of events happens in the cell. One common thing that happens is some of these proteins are phosphorylated, and this phosphorylation changes the shape of the protein, as well as it's energy, and allows it to function differently than before it was phosphorylated. Some of these molecules, once their function is changed, are able to get into the nucleus, where the DNA is stored. And there, they can act as transcription cofactors, which do things to help speed up transcription of DNA to RNA. Some work by opening up the DNA coiled around the histones, some by recruiting more of the transcriptional machinery, some by sitting down at special places on the DNA to say that section is the part that should be transcribed, etc.
So, to the extent that some kind of stress would involve synaptic transmission and release of neurotransmitters that would signal receptors on other neurons, there is, perhaps, the ability of stress to trigger these signal transduction pathways and affect gene expression (picking and choosing which genes get used as a template to make proteins).
I'm not sure I understand this question, but I'm dead tired too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/ghostgenes.shtml
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Sweetie. Don't let tools offend you. Clearly he wasn't up to the conversation coz he buggered off to continue his ignorance elsewhere.
You my dear, are perfect, just the way you are AND don't let anyone tell you any different. There is so much more to the value and beauty of a human being than how much they weigh or what their BMI is and you Deni are a really cool chic who is beautiful all over, trust me. Does shine out of your posts.
An asshole will always be an asshole, you on the other hand can diet!
And I completely understand how frustrating it is to have an illness that contributes to gaining weight and makes it hard to keep it off. And lets not get started on the effects of medication on weight loss and weight gain. :rolleyes: Some of that stuff is just toxic! Just aim to be healthy love, which clearly you're doing, and don't give ignorant, bigotted people and their nasty stereotypes the time of day.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Thanks trace.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
In the 2004 Holiday Lectures on Science, HHMI investigators Ronald M. Evans and Jeffrey M. Friedman discuss how the body regulates weight by carefully controlling the storage and burning of fat—and how a better understanding of these complex metabolic systems could lead researchers to treatments that curb obesity and improve public health.
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/obesity/lectures.html
Thank you so much for that! Its hard when everybody tells you that you're worthless. Or that you must be doing something wrong. Or that you're weak or lazy. Its easy to internalize that, and it can really get to you after a while and mess with your head. I try really hard to ignore people like that, but I have put up with taunts and name calling my whole life. Like I should for some reason be ashamed of who I am because I'm not thin. People like that, that spout that sort of bile... well, lets just say its a sore spot. That's all. They're talking out of their ass. They have no idea what they are talking about and their ignorance shows. I should remember that they are the morons and brush it off. But it just gets to me.
Maybe instead of weight I should have said, Syndrome X, Diabetes, PCOS... or a thousand other conditions that lead to weight gain. You mention weight and the thickheaded are going to end up blaming the person and call them lazy or weak. I'm just so sick to death of hearing that crap. I have diabetes and PCOS and to me blaming me because I'm fat is no different than blaming a cancer patient for being too skinny. How does that help!? Let me tell you... it doesn't. Not at all. It's not motivating, or anything. It makes them feel worthless and leads to depression. This is a fact.
I wish it didn't bother me, but it does. Ignorance is something that I just really can't tolerate.
But thank you Jeanie! You're a wonderful person! *hugs*
Peace and Love
Deni
from my window to yours