however if i feel that the occasion warrants a reciprocal gift then yes i would.
That is the key here. I just outlined how reciprocity does not have to be a "joyful" thing, but also something one feels one must do. A duty. It can also be that. And the point isn't the motive of the giver, but what it does to the receiver. They probably do give of their own hearts, and really dont expect anything in return. But depending on the nature and magnitude of the gift, one may well feel an urge to return it in kind at a later point.
Anyway, that's why I wanted to use that word.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
well, there you go. God put that chemical inside of us... good job Ahnimus, you found it!
How does this infer God?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It's just as likely that a flying spaghetti monster put it there. But I'm placing my bets on evolution.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Well, it's a great idea and it makes complete sense. And I also find no reason to disagree, except for the part of every psychological aspect that affects us affects society. To a certain extent though. I agree that certain things in society affects us emotionally, or psychologically, and vise-versa, our psychological attributes will also affect society (i.e. neighbors, friends and relatives). But I also believe in something else that I don't know what to call it. But it really boils down to society not affecting you in any negative way. For instance, wars, hunger or plagues. I believe that we don't necessarily have to be affected by it. But anyways that really doesn't matter.
To not be affected by society or affect it, you must be outside of it. That's pretty hard these days.
However, what you said reminds me of a scripture in the Bible that seems to flow very well with what is being said. You know, the part of "doing good to affect society in a positive way. Thus, benefitting from it."
Ecclesiastes 3:12 I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. 13 That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil—this is the gift of God
That has gotta be a favorite quote for christian socialists.
Basically, yeah, we do good because we conscientiously are desiring for that good to be done to us. I, on the other hand, believe that it's something that God has placed inside of us. Not that it matters to anyone though.
Whatever floats your boat. I think it's more evolutionary coupled with ancient cultural origins myself.
There is also a scripture that says that sin is in the heart of a person who knows how to do good but does not do it.
Apart from not accepting or believing in sin as a concept, there is something to it. We should do what we know is right and good. Failing to do so, will not be good for ourselves either.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Ecclesiastes 3:12 I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. 13 That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil—this is the gift of God
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Ecclesiastes 3:12 I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. 13 That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil—this is the gift of God
actually, everyone's gotta admit that it just might be referring to you.
But the Bible is not literal, it would be very comic that it was literal in one part and not in the other.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
how the hell did you get that I am taking one part literal and not the other?
and why is it that you try so hard to argue with theists so much? it gets kinda boring dontcha think?
Cause you infect society with ancient fairy tales, with the premise they are fact.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Cause you infect society with ancient fairy tales, with the premise they are fact.
you seriously need some help. i work at a mental health hospital... i can refer you there. no insurance required. it seems like you've got some anger management problems. i'm being serious. you really are out of it dude.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
you seriously need some help. i work at a mental health hospital... i can refer you there. no insurance required. it seems like you've got some anger management problems. i'm being serious. you really are out of it dude.
Nice condescension. Way to resort to personal attacks because you can't adequately defend your religious lies.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
perhaps all it takes for God to exist is for one to believe he does.
It's the same old song, diggin' in the same record bin, hittin' the same bong, livin' in the same city, it's on the same sidewalk, with some played out game and some played out talk.
- Optimus Rhyme (Ford vs Chevy)
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It's the same old song, diggin' in the same record bin, hittin' the same bong, livin' in the same city, it's on the same sidewalk, with some played out game and some played out talk.
- Optimus Rhyme (Ford vs Chevy)
perhaps ryan. but that's where the faith comes in i guess. God exists only because believers put faith in that concept. proveable or not.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Originally Posted by Richard Spencer (Faith and Freethought)
Number 2; atheism offers the best explanation for the presence of unjustified pain and suffering in the world.
Let me be clear; I do not mean to imply that God cannot allow some pain and suffering if he exists, since it would be possible for an all loving God to allow pain that we can learn from, like that felt after touching a hot stove, or even pain that can lead to a greater good, like that felt after a root canal. In these cases, pain is justifiable. Instead my claim is that there is no way for a morally perfect God to allow unjustifiable suffering, like pain that teaches nothing and leads to no greater good, seems to be. For example, consider the severe pain felt by most people suffering from advanced cancer, there is no conceivable justification for it, they are going to die anyway. As caring, compassionate human beings, we do all we can to ease their suffering with the limited means available to us. But if God exists, then he is even more caring and compassionate than we are and has an even greater ability to alleviate pain than we do. Since we cannot be morally superior to God, we would expect God to also do something to alleviate the entirely uneccisary pain of cancer victims, but he doesn't. Yet as even theists admit, if God exists, the gratuitus pain and suffering can not. There must be some ultimate justification, but God hasn't shared it with us and those speaking on his behalf haven't figure it out yet.
In contrast; if atheism is true, we have an explanation. The sensation of pain evolved naturally as our body's way of warning us when something is wrong. But since evolution is not an intelligent process, it never figured out a way to turn the pain off when there is no more need of warning. Thus since only atheism is compatible with unjustifiable pain and suffering and because it appears that unjustifiable pain and suffering exists. The existence of unjustified suffering in the world is evidence for atheism and against theism.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yes. By the strictest definition, compassion could not exist without suffering.
Anyways, here's a nice quote by the Ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus...
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
I could have a crack at it, as I am atheist/agnostic in the sense you ask for here. I too am formed by society ofcourse. And society have christian morals, or so we think at least. However, I would point out that many of the values we have in society easily predate christianity and are possibly evolutionary in nature. At the very least going very long back into our cultural origins.
As for christians basing their morality on fear of god, I think that's rather reductionistic as well, as I am sure any christian will tell you.
Now, what do I base my morality on then? Simply "The golden rule" which is also presented by Jesus, but in no way originates with him. "Do unto others what you would have others do unto you". If you behave and treat people nicely with respect, chances are, you get the same treatment in return. Humans have a great sense of reciprosity, or at the very least our culture does. If you get a gift, you feel obliged to return a gift at a future point. A friend gives you a loan of money at one point, you feel obligated to return the favour if he asks a loan, and so on. The golden rule works, and it works well. And the more that abides by it, the better it works, and the more cooperative we become. This hasn't really a root in religion, but is most likely partly genetic, as human and primates in general are flock animals where cooperation has always been key. Thus acting "pro-social" is really in your own best interests, while acting "anti-socially" will deprive you of the help of others at some point. Good is helping people, cooperating and building communities and societies. Evil is actively hurting people, short-sighted selfishness and destroying community in favour of self.
That answer your question?
Peace
Dan
Bravo
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
How about this:
If there was no suffering, there would be no appreciation for wellness. Without pain, there would be no appreciation for pleasure. Without hatred, love would be completely meaningless. Without sadness, there can be no happiness. Without evil, there can be no appreciation, recognition or even concept of good.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
How about this:
If there was no suffering, there would be no appreciation for wellness. Without pain, there would be no appreciation for pleasure. Without hatred, love would be completely meaningless. Without sadness, there can be no happiness. Without evil, there can be no appreciation, recognition or even concept of good.
55 Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."
56 Jesus said, "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy."
101 "Whoever does not hate [father] and mother as I do cannot be my [disciple], and whoever does [not] love [father and] mother as I do cannot be my [disciple]. For my mother [...], but my true [mother] gave me life."
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
55 Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."
56 Jesus said, "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy."
101 "Whoever does not hate [father] and mother as I do cannot be my [disciple], and whoever does [not] love [father and] mother as I do cannot be my [disciple]. For my mother [...], but my true [mother] gave me life."
"hate" in those passages means "love less" and is more accurately translated that way. In other words, love God above everything.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
"hate" in those passages means "love less" and is more accurately translated that way. In other words, love God above everything.
How convenient. Well the whole passage means that XeSus (Jesus) is 666 in Greek.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
Anyway, that's why I wanted to use that word.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
How does this infer God?
It's just as likely that a flying spaghetti monster put it there. But I'm placing my bets on evolution.
That has gotta be a favorite quote for christian socialists.
Whatever floats your boat. I think it's more evolutionary coupled with ancient cultural origins myself.
Apart from not accepting or believing in sin as a concept, there is something to it. We should do what we know is right and good. Failing to do so, will not be good for ourselves either.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
This could very well be referring to Amanita Muscaria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria
But the Bible is not literal, it would be very comic that it was literal in one part and not in the other.
and why is it that you try so hard to argue with theists so much? it gets kinda boring dontcha think?
Cause you infect society with ancient fairy tales, with the premise they are fact.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Nice condescension. Way to resort to personal attacks because you can't adequately defend your religious lies.
It's the same old song, diggin' in the same record bin, hittin' the same bong, livin' in the same city, it's on the same sidewalk, with some played out game and some played out talk.
- Optimus Rhyme (Ford vs Chevy)
perhaps ryan. but that's where the faith comes in i guess. God exists only because believers put faith in that concept. proveable or not.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"Without suffering, there would be no compassion"
There would be no need for compassion.
ain't that the truth ryan.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yes. By the strictest definition, compassion could not exist without suffering.
Anyways, here's a nice quote by the Ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus...
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
Bravo
-C Addison
How about this:
If there was no suffering, there would be no appreciation for wellness. Without pain, there would be no appreciation for pleasure. Without hatred, love would be completely meaningless. Without sadness, there can be no happiness. Without evil, there can be no appreciation, recognition or even concept of good.
55 Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."
56 Jesus said, "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy."
101 "Whoever does not hate [father] and mother as I do cannot be my [disciple], and whoever does [not] love [father and] mother as I do cannot be my [disciple]. For my mother [...], but my true [mother] gave me life."
"hate" in those passages means "love less" and is more accurately translated that way. In other words, love God above everything.
How convenient. Well the whole passage means that XeSus (Jesus) is 666 in Greek.
yeah, the TRUTH is convenient isn't it
what are you talking about???
[size=+3]κξς[/size]
it's so much clearer now. thank you.
but i did see the schooner after staring at it
Wow, it must be a fulfilling day to bash people for their religious beliefs.