Free-Will

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    Absolutely wrong.

    http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIIC2aCasestudy.shtml

    :(
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Ok, I can see how the statement was wrong. Obviously the mutation was not because of malaria.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Ok, I can see how the statement was wrong. Obviously the mutation was not because of malaria.

    Obviously, AND you forgot about adaptation.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus. Do you have sickle cell anemia?
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    Ahnimus. Do you have sickle cell anemia?

    Nope, I'm not black, though in some ways I would have preferred it.

    I'm quoting this from berkely.edu

    "This is a chain of causation. What happens at the DNA level propagates up to the level of the complete organism. This example illustrates how a single mutation can have a large effect, in this case, both a positive and a negative one. But in many cases, evolutionary change is based on the accumulation of many mutations, each having a small effect. Whether the mutations are large or small, however, the same chain of causation applies: changes at the DNA level propagate up to the phenotype."

    I guess I'll have to sue berkely university :(

    Damn it, you can't trust anyone.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Nope, I'm not black, though in some ways I would have preferred it.

    I'm quoting this from berkely.edu

    "This is a chain of causation. What happens at the DNA level propagates up to the level of the complete organism. This example illustrates how a single mutation can have a large effect, in this case, both a positive and a negative one. But in many cases, evolutionary change is based on the accumulation of many mutations, each having a small effect. Whether the mutations are large or small, however, the same chain of causation applies: changes at the DNA level propagate up to the phenotype."

    I guess I'll have to sue berkely university :(

    Damn it, you can't trust anyone.


    Well, thank goodness.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    Well, thank goodness.

    Yea, I attended evolution class at http://evolution.berkely.edu

    I mean, I learned a bit from high-school, but not much. I learned more in 10 minutes on that website.

    So, is the website really wrong?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yea, I attended evolution class at http://evolution.berkely.edu

    I mean, I learned a bit from high-school, but not much. I learned more in 10 minutes on that website.

    So, is the website really wrong?
    LOL.

    This looking-for-explanations shtick. C'mon, dude.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    LOL.

    This looking-for-explanations shtick. C'mon, dude.

    I'm confused, I can't find a certain definition of adaptation vs evolutionary change.

    I have to tell you, if someone tells me I'm wrong I have to investigate, I have to know the truth.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm confused, I can't find a certain definition of adaptation vs evolutionary change.

    I have to tell you, if someone tells me I'm wrong I have to investigate, I have to know the truth.

    I'm sure you do. There is no debate on Evolution and Adaptation.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    I'm sure you do. There is no debate on Evolution and Adaptation.

    Ok, well this is the best I can do

    "A biological adaptation is an anatomical structure, physiological process or behavioral trait of an organism that has evolved over a period of time by the process of natural selection such that it increases the expected long-term reproductive success of the organism. The term adaptation is also sometimes used as a synonym for natural selection, but most biologists discourage this usage."

    A prerequisite for natural selection to result in adaptive evolution, novel traits and speciation, is the presence of heritable genetic variation that results in fitness differences.

    "Biology Prefixes and Suffixes: -ary"
    From Regina Bailey,
    Definition: Suffix (-ary) - of or relating to

    I'm so confused. So, one source says one thing, the next source something else. So, in order for it to be an "evolutionary change" which there is no definition for, it has to include speciation?

    But, berkely eludes to sickle-cell anemia as "evolutionary change".
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Ok, well this is the best I can do

    "A biological adaptation is an anatomical structure, physiological process or behavioral trait of an organism that has evolved over a period of time by the process of natural selection such that it increases the expected long-term reproductive success of the organism. The term adaptation is also sometimes used as a synonym for natural selection, but most biologists discourage this usage."

    A prerequisite for natural selection to result in adaptive evolution, novel traits and speciation, is the presence of heritable genetic variation that results in fitness differences.

    "Biology Prefixes and Suffixes: -ary"
    From Regina Bailey,
    Definition: Suffix (-ary) - of or relating to

    I'm so confused. So, one source says one thing, the next source something else. So, in order for it to be an "evolutionary change" which there is no definition for, it has to include speciation?

    But, berkely eludes to sickle-cell anemia as "evolutionary change".

    I caught that. The Berkley thing.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Check out Finsburys show. If you start now, we'll be in sync.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Regarding the thread topic.

    I called my Dad, called My bro and talked to my friend Mandy. I mentioned the concept to 5 other peoples between work, Tim Horton's and the gas station.

    One person said: Absolutely, there is no disputing it.
    One person said: It's intriguing
    Two people said: Nothing
    Four people said: I feel like I have free-will

    That's not a very good sample-size, but it's indicative.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    Check out Finsburys show. If you start now, we'll be in sync.

    What is a "Finsburys show"?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Oh , ow. :cool:

    "Rat's dream, when they run around in a labyrinth all day, that's what they dream of." ~ Christof Koch
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Oh , ow. :cool:

    "Rat's dream, when they run around in a labyrinth all day, that's what they dream of." ~ Christof Koch


    Not really. You get to hear protestation of life and death, in Richard's way, I suppose. You get to hear Chance, You get to hear a troubadour profess his love for someone many miles away. None of this has to do with a labyrinth.
    It's honest poetry, song writing.

    I hope Julie hears the call.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    Not really. You get to hear protestation of life and death, in Richard's way, I suppose. You get to hear Chance, You get to hear a troubadour profess his love for someone many miles away. None of this has to do with a labyrinth.
    It's honest poetry, song writing.

    I hope Julie hears the call.

    Huh?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Huh?
    Not For You

















    Never was for you
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Anyone read John Gray's book - 'Straw dogs - On humans and other animals'? The section on free will. It's damn interesting. I'll try to find a link.

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