Free-Will

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    There is such a thing as free will.

    lol, prove it!!

    Please watch the conference.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    lol, prove it!!

    Please watch the conference.

    I won't watch the conference.

    must be free will.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    I won't watch the conference.

    must be free will.

    I would call that ignorance.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I would call that ignorance.

    Ahnimus, my friend.

    No, I won't call you friend.

    Not til you tell me in a PM that by your own free will, you read this message in a post.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    Ahnimus, my friend.

    No, I won't call you friend.

    Not til you tell me in a PM that by your own free will, you read this message in a post.

    I won't tell you that, but regardless of your beliefs, I'd still consider you a friend.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I won't tell you that, but regardless of your beliefs, I'd still consider you a friend.

    I think we're friends, too.

    PM anytime. Really, about anything.

    Well, not about weird shit, just the usual.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    I think we're friends, too.

    PM anytime. Really, about anything.

    Well, not about weird shit, just the usual.

    :)

    As one friend to another, I urge watching the conference :p
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    :)

    As one friend to another, I urge watching the conference :p
    You're a slick lil fucker.

    I will, probably tomorrow.

    Let me state, before watching this. I have the means and know-how to escape this world. I can go into the woods and begin anew with a few simple tools. This may not mean much to some, and spiritually I'm sure the wolverine fucking with my food stash will remind me of something of the "real" world, on the other hand, there would be a difference between choice, and free will.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    You're a slick lil fucker.

    I will, probably tomorrow.

    Let me state, before watching this. I have the means and know-how to escape this world. I can go into the woods and begin anew with a few simple tools. This may not mean much to some, and spiritually I'm sure the wolverine fucking with my food stash will remind me of something of the "real" world, on the other hand, there would be a difference between choice, and free will.

    Certainly.

    Choice is real, but consciousness and free-will are "nothing" but words :)

    "Consciousness is nothing... but a word"
    - Hank Schlinger (California State University)

    Well, I'll leave that up to you.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Certainly.

    Choice is real, but consciousness and free-will are "nothing" but words :)

    "Consciousness is nothing... but a word"
    - Hank Schlinger (California State University)

    Well, I'll leave that up to you.


    You could have said that to start with.


    Will. What is will?
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    You could have said that to start with.


    Will. What is will?

    "Free will as typically used, the phrase has both objective and subjective connotations, in the former case indicating the performance of an action by an agent that is not completely conditioned by antecedent factors, and in the latter case the agent's perception that the action was incepted under his or her own volition."

    Fantasy stuff, subjectivity, the term Consciousness was coined in the 1700s prior to that, it's not certain if it existed.

    Basically a little invisible man sits inside the brain pulling levers and operating our bodies and brains. That's the basic idea of Free-Will.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    "Free will as typically used, the phrase has both objective and subjective connotations, in the former case indicating the performance of an action by an agent that is not completely conditioned by antecedent factors, and in the latter case the agent's perception that the action was incepted under his or her own volition."

    Fantasy stuff, subjectivity, the term Consciousness was coined in the 1700s prior to that, it's not certain if it existed.

    Basically a little invisible man sits inside the brain pulling levers and operating our bodies and brains. That's the basic idea of Free-Will.

    It's possible.

    What happens when an idea is transcendant? Are we all just ideas?

    I hadn't thought of free-will outside of choices, however transitory, that we all make from time to time. Willpower predicates a lot, at least in personal choices and ambitions.
    The world isn't ours, Ahnimus. There are many ideas at play here.
    I think the idea is not to best them, but to make what you know, better.
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  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    Ahnimus wrote:
    "Free will as typically used, the phrase has both objective and subjective connotations, in the former case indicating the performance of an action by an agent that is not completely conditioned by antecedent factors, and in the latter case the agent's perception that the action was incepted under his or her own volition."

    Fantasy stuff, subjectivity, the term Consciousness was coined in the 1700s prior to that, it's not certain if it existed.

    Basically a little invisible man sits inside the brain pulling levers and operating our bodies and brains. That's the basic idea of Free-Will.

    You are typing a lot and saying little.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    You are typing a lot and saying little.

    Not really. I understood it. He was basically saying that free will was less or equal to the concept of some 17th century motherfucker.
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  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Basically a little invisible man sits inside the brain pulling levers and operating our bodies and brains. That's the basic idea of Free-Will.

    I'd rather believe in the little man in my head than believe I am nothing but an automiton controlled by your silly little mathematical formula. I believe neither of those things.

    Do you find it strange that you've managed to alienate and put off every other poster in this thread? Even Angelica, who tried bridging the gap between you and "the rest of us", finally had enough of your inane, arrogant posts. You've got the zeal of a missionary, but your delivery has done the opposite of winning converts.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    It's possible.

    What happens when an idea is transcendant? Are we all just ideas?

    I hadn't thought of free-will outside of choices, however transitory, that we all make from time to time. Willpower predicates a lot, at least in personal choices and ambitions.
    The world isn't ours, Ahnimus. There are many ideas at play here.
    I think the idea is not to best them, but to make what you know, better.

    Well, consciousness was very accurately described to me as "shining a flash-light on the operations of our brains"

    We can concentrate on certain operations, but operations do not stop functioning because we aren't shining our "flash-light" on them.

    Consciousness IMO, is supervenient to brain functions.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    jeffbr wrote:
    I'd rather believe in the little man in my head than believe I am nothing but an automiton controlled by your silly little mathematical formula. I believe neither of those things.

    Do you find it strange that you've managed to alienate and put off every other poster in this thread? Even Angelica, who tried bridging the gap between you and "the rest of us", finally had enough of your inane, arrogant posts. You've got the zeal of a missionary, but your delivery has done the opposite of winning converts.

    Well, at least I planted seeds.

    I'm but one voice making these points, and there are many.

    Basically no scientists deny these truths. Benjamin Libet falsely believed that his experiments may negate free-will but we still have free-won't. The ability to negate the brains decisions. He wasn't ready to accept reality either.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:

    Consciousness IMO, is supervenient to brain functions.

    Is that in vegetables, meats, or the frozen department?
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  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Well, at least I planted seeds.

    I'm but one voice making these points, and there are many.

    Basically no scientists deny these truths. Benjamin Libet falsely believed that his experiments may negate free-will but we still have free-won't. The ability to negate the brains decisions. He wasn't ready to accept reality either.

    You're the guy that literally turns people off to ideas. I would do the exact opposite of whatever you said. You are that fucking arrogant, uneducated about what you speak, and just stupid. Really, you bring absolutely nothing to the table.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    You're the guy that literally turns people off to ideas. I would do the exact opposite of whatever you said. You are that fucking arrogant, uneducated about what you speak, and just stupid. Really, you bring absolutely nothing to the table.

    I don't think so.

    I want to hear Ahnimus out.
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