Free-Will

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    I don't think so.

    I want to hear Ahnimus out.

    I've posted most of what I'm getting at. There are really two aspects of this thread, the Free-will debate and the Determinism debate, which I feel are closely related. None-the-less you could believe in one and not the other.

    Feel free to ask questions :)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    I would do the exact opposite of whatever you said.

    Don't read anything about Free-will and Consciousness.

    Don't read anything about the Third Reich.

    Don't read anything about Usury and Judaism.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Don't read anything about Free-will and Consciousness.

    Don't read anything about the Third Reich.

    Don't read anything about Usury and Judaism.

    Don't breed. Seriously, your DNA is not of value to the human race.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I've posted most of what I'm getting at. There are really two aspects of this thread, the Free-will debate and the Determinism debate, which I feel are closely related. None-the-less you could believe in one and not the other.

    Feel free to ask questions :)

    I'm not sure what those arguments mean. I just believe in myself.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    Don't breed. Seriously, your DNA is not of value to the human race.

    Actually my DNA is quite good. With the exception of a possible genetic predisposition to cancer and an endomorphic body-type.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    I'm not sure what those arguments mean. I just believe in myself.

    Well, it's how you define yourself. If you believe that you have a consciousness independent of your physical self (brain) or if you feel that your brain performs all of your functions and consciousness is an awareness, a snapshot of brain activity.

    The reason this is important, is because the brain follows deterministic laws. It requires sensory input (Information) to make judgments and perceptions.

    The Dualist, or Compatibalist, believes in both, some how. But that position has been pretty much nullified.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    Don't breed. Seriously, your DNA is not of value to the human race.

    He is DNA, and don't you ever forget it.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • IWillLiveForeve
    IWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Actually my DNA is quite good. With the exception of a possible genetic predisposition to cancer and an endomorphic body-type.

    Mental faculties are decided by DNA. Again, your's is shit. No, really I bet you have crap for your 11th chromosome. You really need to seek help.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    Mental faculties are decided by DNA. Again, your's is shit. No, really I bet you have crap for your 11th chromosome. You really need to seek help.

    My karyotype is important for the development of my brain, which reached final maturation probably within the last 5 years. As the prefrontal cortex doesn't develop until post-adolescence, usually early - mid 20s.

    What is mostly important at this stage is my phenotypic characteristics. Which doesn't fall short of normal.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Well, it's how you define yourself. If you believe that you have a consciousness independent of your physical self (brain) or if you feel that your brain performs all of your functions and consciousness is an awareness, a snapshot of brain activity.

    The reason this is important, is because the brain follows deterministic laws. It requires sensory input (Information) to make judgments and perceptions.

    The Dualist, or Compatibalist, believes in both, some how. But that position has been pretty much nullified.

    You forgot instinct.

    I know, as you've been posting here tonight you're relying on some sort of system of..of whatever... yes, consciousness does prevail.

    WITH instinct.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    You forgot instinct.

    I know, as you've been posting here tonight you're relying on some sort of system of..of whatever... yes, consciousness does prevail.

    WITH instinct.

    Instinct, well that's another can of worms.

    It's actually debatable wether or not an infant has "consciousness" because without Language, it's really hard to speak covertly to one's self.

    Can you please define consciousness for me? Because the term is really subjective.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Instinct, well that's another can of worms.

    It's actually debatable wether or not an infant has "consciousness" because without Language, it's really hard to speak covertly to one's self.

    Can you please define consciousness for me? Because the term is really subjective.

    No, i won't define consciouness, not tonight, instinct worked.

    Peace, bro. I'm off to enjoy FinsburyParkCarrots and his performance of a night ago.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    No, i won't define consciouness, not tonight, instinct worked.

    Peace, bro. I'm off to enjoy FinsburyParkCarrots and his performance of a night ago.

    Instinct worked?

    Perhaps you don't fully understand instinct. Or perhaps you are thinking of it as it were 50 years ago. Children do not have "Instinct", they have sensorimotor functions that they learn about and learn how to use. Such as screaming draws attention from the care-giver.

    Seriously. That is learned. Instinct is an evolutionary deal. Animals adapt to life faster than Humans because they have these definite instincts. It takes a Human being almost 20 years to become "Instinctual". The feeling of hunger is not really an instinct as much as it is a physiological requirement.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Additionally que-barum, instinct implies something opposite to free-will.

    "Some sociobiologists and ethologists have attempted to comprehend human and animal social behavior in terms of instincts. Psychoanalysts have stated that instinct refers to human motivational forces (such as sex and aggression), sometimes represented as life instinct and death instinct. This use of the term motivational forces has mainly been replaced by the term instinctual drives.

    Instincts in humans can also be seen in what are called instinctive reflexes. Reflexes, such as the Babinski Reflex (fanning of the toes when foot is stroked), are seen in babies and are indicative of stages of development. These reflexes can truly be considered instinctive because they are generally free of environmental influences or conditioning.

    Additional human traits that have been looked at as instincts are: altruism, disgust, face perception, language acquisitions, "fight or flight" and "subjugate or be subjugated".

    Other sociologists argue that humans have no instincts, defining them as a "complex pattern of behaviour present in every specimen of a particular species, that is innate, and that cannot be overridden." Said sociologists argue that drives such as sex and hunger cannot be considered instincts, as they can be overridden. This notion is present in many introductory textbooks (Sociology: An Introduction, Ian Robertson, Worth Publishers, 1989), but is still hotly debated."

    So, in Humans "Instincts" are simple sensorimotor functions. Or motivational drives. Still debatable.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Additionally que-barum, instinct implies something opposite to free-will.

    "Some sociobiologists and ethologists have attempted to comprehend human and animal social behavior in terms of instincts. Psychoanalysts have stated that instinct refers to human motivational forces (such as sex and aggression), sometimes represented as life instinct and death instinct. This use of the term motivational forces has mainly been replaced by the term instinctual drives.

    Instincts in humans can also be seen in what are called instinctive reflexes. Reflexes, such as the Babinski Reflex (fanning of the toes when foot is stroked), are seen in babies and are indicative of stages of development. These reflexes can truly be considered instinctive because they are generally free of environmental influences or conditioning.

    Additional human traits that have been looked at as instincts are: altruism, disgust, face perception, language acquisitions, "fight or flight" and "subjugate or be subjugated".

    Other sociologists argue that humans have no instincts, defining them as a "complex pattern of behaviour present in every specimen of a particular species, that is innate, and that cannot be overridden." Said sociologists argue that drives such as sex and hunger cannot be considered instincts, as they can be overridden. This notion is present in many introductory textbooks (Sociology: An Introduction, Ian Robertson, Worth Publishers, 1989), but is still hotly debated."

    So, in Humans "Instincts" are simple sensorimotor functions. Or motivational drives. Still debatable.


    I know we're friends. This being UNCONCIOUS shit don't cut it.

    You need music, and I recommend it right now, as loud as you can get it!!!!
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    I know we're friends. This being UNCONCIOUS shit don't cut it.

    You need music, and I recommend it right now, as loud as you can get it!!!!

    Who said Unconscious? I simply redefined consciousness as you know it.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    You need music, and I recommend it right now, as loud as you can get it!!!!

    I'm busy watching a panel of scientists of different disciplines discuss consciousness.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    Boy, this thread took a serious dive.
    I'll refrain from making comments, and leave this thread alone now.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Conference Location

    Toward a Science of Consciousness 2006 hold plenary sessions in the Leo Rich Theatre of the Tucson Convention Center (TCC). Concurrent sessions, poster sessions and Pre-Conference Workshops will be held in Meeting Rooms of the TCC and in several ballrooms of the Hotel Arizona. They are located on the same plaza in downtown Tucson.

    Tucson Convention Center
    260 S. Church Avenue
    Tucson, Arizona

    See map below. The TCC is about 15 to 20 minutes by car/taxi from Tucson International Airport. Note the Radisson Hotel

    (as in Radisson Parking on map) is now the Hotel Arizona, the official Conference Hotel.

    http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/location.htm

    My bad, the university isn't running this anymore.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Damn, Susan Blackmore did a conference today and I missed it.

    Dr Susan Blackmore is a psychologist and writer whose research
    on consciousness, memes, and anomalous experiences has been
    published in over sixty academic papers, as well as book chapters,
    reviews and popular articles. She has a regular piece in the Guardian,
    and often appears on radio and television. Her book The Meme
    Machine (1999) has been translated into 12 other languages and
    more recent books include a textbook Consciousness:
    An Introduction (2003) and Conversations on Consciousness (2005).
    She has been practicing Zen for twenty years.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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