Karma - Believe it or Not?

Kushikushun

Ahnimus I find your arguments tempting and I also can struggle with these thoughts. I feel that it is a struggle between what I think and what I feel...luckily there is also something that I KNOW. And that takes me away from the path of determinism. Cant explain why, but it definitely does. It has nothing to do with belief, its more complicated than that. Thats why I reffered to my signature in the other post...everything is nothing and nothing is everything.

I also liked the Wikipedia explanation:
Karma is a sum of all that an individual has done, is currently doing and will do. The results or "fruits" of actions are called karma-phala. Karma is not about retribution, vengeance, punishment or reward. Karma simply deals with what is. The effects of all deeds actively create past, present and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to others.

I do not think that Buddhism is deterministic however. Its just saying that you create your path although everything you do or have done paves it.

Just a question; if everything is determined...why is it? Why was this path laid out then? ..this leads to the question.. where does it all start?

These questions are way tooooo big for little me, so I just take it one step at a time and... enjoy the way on my way!

Hope you all do too!

Jeanie

Ahnimus wrote:

It certainly devalues life. Not having a soul. Life basically doesn't mean much in the long run. I still do the same things everyone else does and I enjoy life. But I don't have a soul. I have no plans to continue on after my expiration. In fact, if there was anything else, I would be disappointed. Who wants to live forever anyway? Seems like a major bore. What if I end up drifting through the vast reaches of space and all I get is to look at stars for eternity? What do I do then? Or will I transcend to a constant state of tranquility for eternity. What's that going to feel like that I will actually want it for eternity?

Eternity is a long long time, it's forever, never-ending. I want an end, I want it to stop at some point. Mission Accomplished, sort of thing. To me, the only thing that I could actually enjoy and tolerate for eternity, is non-existence. I would have no sensation, no desire, no habituation to stimuli, nothing, absolute zero, complete and absolute peace.

Ahnimus would you consider that your being, your brain, your body, all the sum total of your experience so far, who you are, is completely unique from that of any other human being on the planet? That when your body dies, and along with it your brain, all of that uniqueness will be lost. Gone to the world forever. Could this not be considered a soul of sorts? For want of a better word. Do you not agree that no two human beings are alike. That we are all individual by both nurture and nature and life experience and that this cannot be duplicated exactly? Not even in twins.

titefka

Karma debts is a good explanation for different and logically inexplicable(suprisingly good and amazing or toxic and exhausting and so on))relations with others.The balance must be kept,if not in this life ,will come back in another.Karma theory is quite convincing.But all we know is ... nothing.Greetings!

Collin

Not really, no.

I believe every action has a reaction, though.

even flow?

There is a reason why people who fuck others over, seem to always be looking over their shoulder.

Just like telling a lie. You either have to live up to it forever, or you look like a fool.

Kind of like always looking for the most beautiful girl and then all you friends think your wife is the ugliest woman they have ever seen.

That thing named Karma will indeed find a way to creep back into your life. Even if it only is a small thing that only you realise happened. It will be there. Of course if I were a religious person I would say it is god getting you back.


Then again there is always Murphy's Law to worry about.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

If such a thing as karma really existed, humanity would be much more balanced than it is.

Ahnimus

Saturnal wrote:

If such a thing as karma really existed, humanity would be much more balanced than it is.

That's the truth, we are going to need the next 2000 or so years of eutopia to make up for the past.

Scratchin a Letter

I'd like to believe it. While I believe what goes around comes around, bad things still happen to good people. But not always. Life doesn't work like that.

brainofPJ

Ahnimus wrote:

That is right, except there are no detours. Every detour you take was predetermined, therefor it's not a detour.

If you could rewind time and watch it on a big screen, when you hit play everything would play out exactly the same way it did the first time.

"If I knew then what I know now."

Then you would have made a different choice, but seeing as you knew then what you knew then, you made the best choice you knew how. If you rewind time, you have to undo what you know now, so going back to that point in time, you are left with the same things you knew then and you won't know what you know now. Your screwed.

man i'm glad this isn't true with me

Ahnimus

brainofPJ wrote:

man i'm glad this isn't true with me

So, you can travel through time, retaining your current knowledge and changing the decisions you've made?

Jeanie

brain of c wrote:

your karma ran over my dogma.

:D:D:D

Ahnimus

Jeanie wrote:

Ahnimus would you consider that your being, your brain, your body, all the sum total of your experience so far, who you are, is completely unique from that of any other human being on the planet? That when your body dies, and along with it your brain, all of that uniqueness will be lost. Gone to the world forever. Could this not be considered a soul of sorts? For want of a better word. Do you not agree that no two human beings are alike. That we are all individual by both nurture and nature and life experience and that this cannot be duplicated exactly? Not even in twins.

I consider that to be a character/personality.

Jeanie

So ahnimus, still haven't heard what you think. It was a question you know. Very interested in what you have to say about "the soul" or lack there of. And isn't that interesting enough in itself because I have no desire to understand the inner workings of E.Coli!

Ahnimus

Jeanie wrote:

So ahnimus, still haven't heard what you think. It was a question you know. Very interested in what you have to say about "the soul" or lack there of. And isn't that interesting enough in itself because I have no desire to understand the inner workings of E.Coli!

I don't like these words that mean metaphysical things, so I try to explain without using them. Instead I use, character and personality.

Jeanie

Ahnimus wrote:

I don't like these words that mean metaphysical things, so I try to explain without using them. Instead I use, character and personality.

Yep, I understand you want something tangible. Evidence based. Got it, me too! But each person has something individual to them that expires when they die, and yeah, it is character and personality but they also have the power to elicit huge emotional responses in others. To make changes in the world by their very actions and thinking and feelings. And I don't think that is just hormones or pheremones. Or the brain at work. Well not the brain as we know it now. Do you not see that people make connections? You must be able to see that, I've seen your writing about your ex girlfriend. And I see your writings in general actually. I think you are just frightened to acknowledge that there are things that can't be explained by science as yet. But that's cool. Just because science hasn't caught up doesn't mean it's not happening. Not having a go at you at all. Just wanted you to think about it because I believe science will catch up and we need to be ready for it. So..................did I make any sense to you at all?

Ahnimus

Jeanie wrote:

Yep, I understand you want something tangible. Evidence based. Got it, me too! But each person has something individual to them that expires when they die, and yeah, it is character and personality but they also have the power to elicit huge emotional responses in others. To make changes in the world by their very actions and thinking and feelings. And I don't think that is just hormones or pheremones. Or the brain at work. Well not the brain as we know it now. Do you not see that people make connections? You must be able to see that, I've seen your writing about your ex girlfriend. And I see your writings in general actually. I think you are just frightened to acknowledge that there are things that can't be explained by science as yet. But that's cool. Just because science hasn't caught up doesn't mean it's not happening. Not having a go at you at all. Just wanted you to think about it because I believe science will catch up and we need to be ready for it. So..................did I make any sense to you at all?

Yea, I think science does a pretty good job of explaining everywith the general nature of causality.

Some times, we don't need science, we just need to look at the causality ourselves. Why do I feel this way? What did I do? How did this happen? For most part we can answer those questions ourselves. We do need answers, and I think we all try to find out the causes in life, but some of us attribute it to mystical things. That's where I see a major flaw in the human process of deliberation.

catefrances

Ahnimus wrote:

Yea, I think science does a pretty good job of explaining everywith the general nature of causality.

Some times, we don't need science, we just need to look at the causality ourselves. Why do I feel this way? What did I do? How did this happen? For most part we can answer those questions ourselves. We do need answers, and I think we all try to find out the causes in life, but some of us attribute it to mystical things. That's where I see a major flaw in the human process of deliberation.

yes. the unexplainable is simply unexplainable. that is until we figure it out using science. and sometimes we just think too much. i don't think every little thing needs to be explained. and i don't think that because something is unexplainable that it is beyond our comprehension as mere humans.
thinking of the how did this happen? question. personally i'm going through a rough patch because of a relationship breakup. how did this happen? it happened because i put myself out there on a limb and took the biggest chance of my life. and according to ahnimus and people who think like him, this relationship was always going to break up. perhaps that is true. and perhaps it is true that i needed to go through this relationship and have it blow up in my face for some as yet still unforeseen reason. I really hope that is the case because i'd hate to think i'm going through all this angsty adolescent bullshit for absolutely no reason.

Jeanie

Ahnimus wrote:

Yea, I think science does a pretty good job of explaining everywith the general nature of causality.

Some times, we don't need science, we just need to look at the causality ourselves. Why do I feel this way? What did I do? How did this happen? For most part we can answer those questions ourselves. We do need answers, and I think we all try to find out the causes in life, but some of us attribute it to mystical things. That's where I see a major flaw in the human process of deliberation.

Yeah I don't get too mystical Ahnimus. Too many science lovers and athiests in the family to let me get too caught up in the metaphysical, but I also can't deny that there are some things beyond scientific explanation at this point. Just keeping an open mind. Didn't get this far with logical thinking just to let the "new age" or mystical get me! Figure if I didn't have an epiphany and convert when I was really sick then it won't be happening any time in the near future either! But I do believe in "the soul" of sorts. Haven't heard anything from science that has changed my mind about that as yet. Although I did read some very interesting stuff recently about the brain and "ghosts". They discovered some interesting brain function on a woman on an MRI while they were talking to her and looking at something else. She kept insisting that there was someone else in the room! Looking forward to finding out more about that one!!!

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

Yeah I don't get too mystical Ahnimus. Too many science lovers and athiests in the family to let me get too caught up in the metaphysical, but I also can't deny that there are some things beyond scientific explanation at this point. Just keeping an open mind. Didn't get this far with logical thinking just to let the "new age" or mystical get me! Figure if I didn't have an epiphany and convert when I was really sick then it won't be happening any time in the near future either! But I do believe in "the soul" of sorts. Haven't heard anything from science that has changed my mind about that as yet. Although I did read some very interesting stuff recently about the brain and "ghosts". They discovered some interesting brain function on a woman on an MRI while they were talking to her and looking at something else. She kept insisting that there was someone else in the room! Looking forward to finding out more about that one!!!

oh i've seen a ghost.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

oh i've seen a ghost.

OH me too cate!!! On more that one occassion. A "ghost" or whatever else it turns out to be. Not fussed really, what we decide to call it. It happened. I just though it was really interesting this little item I saw in the paper about what happened on the MRI when the women said she could see it. It will put scientist forward in trying to map more of the brain. And that can't be a bad thing. And I don't need explanations for everything. I agree we will never be able to explain everything and even then it'll be open to debate anyway!