Hilary Clinton proposes 401(k)s, matching funds

know1

meme wrote:

Well, I embrace a system where people have decent standards of living as a matter of right, not as a matter of charity.

The definition of "decent" is where it all starts getting messy.

RainDog

jlew24asu wrote:

contradictory dont you think?

Not really. Unless you believe that money equals freedom - in which case, freedom must be bought, meaning only the rich are free. However, if freedom means, well, "freedom," then money has less to do with it. You have the freedom of association, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to do with your body as you please, freedom to screw knots in a tree, freedom - oh, you get it.

Of course, money will always mean you get more stuff than others, and that's perfectly fine. No one's advocating taking all of your money. It will also almost always give you more clout. That won't change either. In fact, about the only thing that will change is you get slightly less money, while others, who happen to be old, get food and shelter. Maybe even a bit of a retirement fund they can use.

But I'm not completely sold on this 401(k) idea either. It's just that I don't have an immediate "cross to vampire" reaction to social programs.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

The election will be between a "tax and spend" Democrat or a "don't tax and spend anyway" Republican. nice choices.

SilverSeed

gue_barium wrote:

The Fed, huh? Who is this Fred, er, I mean Fed?

Dude where are you from? Take Econ 101 and get back to me...

gue_barium

SilverSeed wrote:

Dude where are you from? Take Econ 101 and get back to me...

If you're so up on it, maybe you can elaborate. For all of us.

SilverSeed

gue_barium wrote:

If you're so up on it, maybe you can elaborate. For all of us.

Ok. You asked who controls the strength of the dollar. The Fed, through it's manipulation of the interest rate, controls that strength. Their policy is centered around inflation, though, and so the relative strength of the dollar versus foreign currency is not taken into account very often.

As for the more broad question of "Who controls our economy?". A couple answers: first is all of us. In terms of an economy, it takes all players to make it run. Everyone from those with $75mm and a fuck the world attitude to the dude digging ditches. Second would be those creating legislation and those actually doing large trading between countries (multinational corporations). In reality, it is the play between these entities that results in the prices and products we see.

Again I ask, what is your question?

gue_barium

SilverSeed wrote:

Ok. You asked who controls the strength of the dollar. The Fed, through it's manipulation of the interest rate, controls that strength. Their policy is centered around inflation, though, and so the relative strength of the dollar versus foreign currency is not taken into account very often.

As for the more broad question of "Who controls our economy?". A couple answers: first is all of us. In terms of an economy, it takes all players to make it run. Everyone from those with $75mm and a fuck the world attitude to the dude digging ditches. Second would be those creating legislation and those actually doing large trading between countries (multinational corporations). In reality, it is the play between these entities that results in the prices and products we see.

Again I ask, what is your question?

You just answered the question.

onelongsong

meme wrote:

Well, I embrace a system where people have decent standards of living as a matter of right, not as a matter of charity.

my best friend is laying in a bed in toffia with extreeme back pain. she can no longer sit at the pc so she hasn't posted here in almost 6 months. in the states she'd get a dorsal column stimulator but the italian doctors are giving her wedges for her shoes.
her life depends on the charity of the italian healthcare system.
we make our own standards of living. we work for what we have. here's a very successful person cut down by a botched (my opinion) back surgery. i would do anything to help her. she deserves it.
then i see welfare mamas driving lincoln town cars and their baby daddies selling crack and making a few thousand a day tax free and i know that's where that money is going.

jlew24asu

seed, ha, only 10 posts in and gue is already under yoru skin. dont expect that to change. good reply though. I'm an economist too (by hobby)

SilverSeed

jlew24asu wrote:

ha, only 10 posts in and gue is already under yoru skin. dont expect that to change. good reply though. I'm an economist too (by hobby)

Well I'm new, I thought he might actually be looking for something. Thanks for the support. Econ can be fun...

gue_barium

jlew24asu wrote:

seed, ha, only 10 posts in and gue is already under yoru skin. dont expect that to change. good reply though. I'm an economist too (by hobby)

Shaddup.

The thing of it is, I bet you "economists" would be hard-pressed to tell me why the dollar is worth anything at all.

jlew24asu

gue_barium wrote:

Shaddup.

The thing of it is, I bet you "economists" would be hard-pressed to tell me why the dollar is worth anything at all.

its used in exchange for good and services.

SilverSeed

gue_barium wrote:

Shaddup.

The thing of it is, I bet you "economists" would be hard-pressed to tell me why the dollar is worth anything at all.

Ha. I'm sure you're a good guy, you just really like to press buttons with stupid questions huh?

This may be interesting to you though: a dollar in and of itself is worthless. It is only because we all agree that it is worth something that we can trade with it. Look up something called the "gold standard". It's gone, and that was the last time there was actual value behind a dollar.

gue_barium

jlew24asu wrote:

its used in exchange for good and services.

That doesn't explain its worth.

gue_barium

SilverSeed wrote:

Ha. I'm sure you're a good guy, you just really like to press buttons with stupid questions huh?

This may be interesting to you though: a dollar in and of itself is worthless. It is only because we all agree that it is worth something that we can trade with it. Look up something called the "gold standard". It's gone, and that was the last time there was actual value behind a dollar.

I knew that. That's what I was going for.

There are no stupid questions.

You're getting kind of rude for someone who came on here as such a nice, white male.

SilverSeed

gue_barium wrote:

I knew that. That's what I was going for.

There are no stupid questions.

You're getting kind of rude for someone who came on here a such a nice, white male.

Ha...

meme

onelongsong wrote:

my best friend is laying in a bed in toffia with extreeme back pain. she can no longer sit at the pc so she hasn't posted here in almost 6 months. in the states she'd get a dorsal column stimulator but the italian doctors are giving her wedges for her shoes.
her life depends on the charity of the italian healthcare system.
we make our own standards of living. we work for what we have. here's a very successful person cut down by a botched (my opinion) back surgery. i would do anything to help her. she deserves it.
then i see welfare mamas driving lincoln town cars and their baby daddies selling crack and making a few thousand a day tax free and i know that's where that money is going.

If your friend could afford the dorsal column stimulator in the US, she could certainly afford to pay for it privately in Italy. That's right, people can choose there, but they don't have to.

I won't even dignify those ignorant stereotypes you put out with an answer.

Know1: what is decent is certainly controversial. For me, a decent system is one where people are not forced to work into very old age to survive.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

gue_barium wrote:

Shaddup.

ROFL...

I was chalking it up to another Gue moment. I could the gue through the trees.

gue_barium

SilverSeed wrote:

Ha...

Hmmph. You come on board on this topic saying what a privileged White man you are, the implication being that economic hardship equals Non-white folks, therefore, that's what this is about.

I have a problem with you making a dollar and cents issue into a racial one. In the same fell swoop you bring an American issue into the spectrum of those few men around "the world" who are extremely wealthy and "white."

onelongsong

gue_barium wrote:

Who controls the market for Americans? Who makes our dollar stronger or weaker?

what is money? people here aren't old enough to remember money as it should be. they've accepted paper as having worth.
here's an example. let's say you got a gold coin in 1880 worth $10.00. in 1900 the price of gold is up and that coin is now worth $15.00. in 1960 someone gave you a $10.00 bill; it's now worth maybe $7.00.
this is why i convert paper to gold. the price may vary but your money will always make a profit. gold i bought in the 1970's for $280.00/ oz is now worth close to $1000/oz.

i think the people control the market. someone decided a 25 cent cup of coffee was worth $5.00 and people paid the price. it's the same for anything else. if people are willing to pay that price; that sets the market.