Hilary Clinton proposes 401(k)s, matching funds

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  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    meme wrote:
    Well, I embrace a system where people have decent standards of living as a matter of right, not as a matter of charity.

    The definition of "decent" is where it all starts getting messy.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    jlew24asu wrote:
    contradictory dont you think?
    Not really. Unless you believe that money equals freedom - in which case, freedom must be bought, meaning only the rich are free. However, if freedom means, well, "freedom," then money has less to do with it. You have the freedom of association, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to do with your body as you please, freedom to screw knots in a tree, freedom - oh, you get it.

    Of course, money will always mean you get more stuff than others, and that's perfectly fine. No one's advocating taking all of your money. It will also almost always give you more clout. That won't change either. In fact, about the only thing that will change is you get slightly less money, while others, who happen to be old, get food and shelter. Maybe even a bit of a retirement fund they can use.

    But I'm not completely sold on this 401(k) idea either. It's just that I don't have an immediate "cross to vampire" reaction to social programs.
  • The election will be between a "tax and spend" Democrat or a "don't tax and spend anyway" Republican. nice choices.
  • gue_barium wrote:
    The Fed, huh? Who is this Fred, er, I mean Fed?

    Dude where are you from? Take Econ 101 and get back to me...
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    SilverSeed wrote:
    Dude where are you from? Take Econ 101 and get back to me...

    If you're so up on it, maybe you can elaborate. For all of us.

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  • gue_barium wrote:
    If you're so up on it, maybe you can elaborate. For all of us.

    Ok. You asked who controls the strength of the dollar. The Fed, through it's manipulation of the interest rate, controls that strength. Their policy is centered around inflation, though, and so the relative strength of the dollar versus foreign currency is not taken into account very often.

    As for the more broad question of "Who controls our economy?". A couple answers: first is all of us. In terms of an economy, it takes all players to make it run. Everyone from those with $75mm and a fuck the world attitude to the dude digging ditches. Second would be those creating legislation and those actually doing large trading between countries (multinational corporations). In reality, it is the play between these entities that results in the prices and products we see.

    Again I ask, what is your question?
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    SilverSeed wrote:
    Ok. You asked who controls the strength of the dollar. The Fed, through it's manipulation of the interest rate, controls that strength. Their policy is centered around inflation, though, and so the relative strength of the dollar versus foreign currency is not taken into account very often.

    As for the more broad question of "Who controls our economy?". A couple answers: first is all of us. In terms of an economy, it takes all players to make it run. Everyone from those with $75mm and a fuck the world attitude to the dude digging ditches. Second would be those creating legislation and those actually doing large trading between countries (multinational corporations). In reality, it is the play between these entities that results in the prices and products we see.

    Again I ask, what is your question?

    You just answered the question.

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  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    meme wrote:
    Well, I embrace a system where people have decent standards of living as a matter of right, not as a matter of charity.

    my best friend is laying in a bed in toffia with extreeme back pain. she can no longer sit at the pc so she hasn't posted here in almost 6 months. in the states she'd get a dorsal column stimulator but the italian doctors are giving her wedges for her shoes.
    her life depends on the charity of the italian healthcare system.
    we make our own standards of living. we work for what we have. here's a very successful person cut down by a botched (my opinion) back surgery. i would do anything to help her. she deserves it.
    then i see welfare mamas driving lincoln town cars and their baby daddies selling crack and making a few thousand a day tax free and i know that's where that money is going.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    seed, ha, only 10 posts in and gue is already under yoru skin. dont expect that to change. good reply though. I'm an economist too (by hobby)
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    ha, only 10 posts in and gue is already under yoru skin. dont expect that to change. good reply though. I'm an economist too (by hobby)

    Well I'm new, I thought he might actually be looking for something. Thanks for the support. Econ can be fun...
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    jlew24asu wrote:
    seed, ha, only 10 posts in and gue is already under yoru skin. dont expect that to change. good reply though. I'm an economist too (by hobby)

    Shaddup.

    The thing of it is, I bet you "economists" would be hard-pressed to tell me why the dollar is worth anything at all.

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  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    Shaddup.

    The thing of it is, I bet you "economists" would be hard-pressed to tell me why the dollar is worth anything at all.

    its used in exchange for good and services.
  • gue_barium wrote:
    Shaddup.

    The thing of it is, I bet you "economists" would be hard-pressed to tell me why the dollar is worth anything at all.

    Ha. I'm sure you're a good guy, you just really like to press buttons with stupid questions huh?

    This may be interesting to you though: a dollar in and of itself is worthless. It is only because we all agree that it is worth something that we can trade with it. Look up something called the "gold standard". It's gone, and that was the last time there was actual value behind a dollar.
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    jlew24asu wrote:
    its used in exchange for good and services.

    That doesn't explain its worth.

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  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    SilverSeed wrote:
    Ha. I'm sure you're a good guy, you just really like to press buttons with stupid questions huh?

    This may be interesting to you though: a dollar in and of itself is worthless. It is only because we all agree that it is worth something that we can trade with it. Look up something called the "gold standard". It's gone, and that was the last time there was actual value behind a dollar.

    I knew that. That's what I was going for.

    There are no stupid questions.

    You're getting kind of rude for someone who came on here as such a nice, white male.

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  • gue_barium wrote:
    I knew that. That's what I was going for.

    There are no stupid questions.

    You're getting kind of rude for someone who came on here a such a nice, white male.

    Ha...
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    my best friend is laying in a bed in toffia with extreeme back pain. she can no longer sit at the pc so she hasn't posted here in almost 6 months. in the states she'd get a dorsal column stimulator but the italian doctors are giving her wedges for her shoes.
    her life depends on the charity of the italian healthcare system.
    we make our own standards of living. we work for what we have. here's a very successful person cut down by a botched (my opinion) back surgery. i would do anything to help her. she deserves it.
    then i see welfare mamas driving lincoln town cars and their baby daddies selling crack and making a few thousand a day tax free and i know that's where that money is going.

    If your friend could afford the dorsal column stimulator in the US, she could certainly afford to pay for it privately in Italy. That's right, people can choose there, but they don't have to.

    I won't even dignify those ignorant stereotypes you put out with an answer.

    Know1: what is decent is certainly controversial. For me, a decent system is one where people are not forced to work into very old age to survive.
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • gue_barium wrote:
    Shaddup.

    ROFL...

    I was chalking it up to another Gue moment. I could the gue through the trees.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    SilverSeed wrote:
    Ha...

    Hmmph. You come on board on this topic saying what a privileged White man you are, the implication being that economic hardship equals Non-white folks, therefore, that's what this is about.

    I have a problem with you making a dollar and cents issue into a racial one. In the same fell swoop you bring an American issue into the spectrum of those few men around "the world" who are extremely wealthy and "white."

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  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    gue_barium wrote:
    Who controls the market for Americans? Who makes our dollar stronger or weaker?

    what is money? people here aren't old enough to remember money as it should be. they've accepted paper as having worth.
    here's an example. let's say you got a gold coin in 1880 worth $10.00. in 1900 the price of gold is up and that coin is now worth $15.00. in 1960 someone gave you a $10.00 bill; it's now worth maybe $7.00.
    this is why i convert paper to gold. the price may vary but your money will always make a profit. gold i bought in the 1970's for $280.00/ oz is now worth close to $1000/oz.

    i think the people control the market. someone decided a 25 cent cup of coffee was worth $5.00 and people paid the price. it's the same for anything else. if people are willing to pay that price; that sets the market.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    what is money? people here aren't old enough to remember money as it should be. they've accepted paper as having worth.
    here's an example. let's say you got a gold coin in 1880 worth $10.00. in 1900 the price of gold is up and that coin is now worth $15.00. in 1960 someone gave you a $10.00 bill; it's now worth maybe $7.00.
    this is why i convert paper to gold. the price may vary but your money will always make a profit. gold i bought in the 1970's for $280.00/ oz is now worth close to $1000/oz.

    i think the people control the market. someone decided a 25 cent cup of coffee was worth $5.00 and people paid the price. it's the same for anything else. if people are willing to pay that price; that sets the market.

    Yeah.

    I just hate the "I'm white and repentent" types.

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  • gue_barium wrote:
    Hmmph. You come on board on this topic saying what a privileged White man you are, the implication being that economic hardship equals Non-white folks, therefore, that's what this is about.

    I have a problem with you making a dollar and cents issue into a racial one. In the same fell swoop you bring an American issue into the spectrum of those few men around "the world" who are extremely wealthy and "white."

    My point about being a white male was concerning my own views in how wealth should be divided, when confronted with the well thought out "Its my money bitches!" argument. Race certainly is not an issue here, anyone with the requisite amount of money outlined in the program should pay.

    I think you're getting lost in language:

    In the same fell swoop you bring an American issue into the spectrum of those few men around "the world" who are extremely wealthy and "white."

    I am bringing my own context to an American issue. What is this spectrum of worldwide rich white males? And how did I bring anything into it? Certainly past American systematic repression warrants current legislation to see it doesn't happen again.

    (Why so many quotations? We know what white means, and what the world is)
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • gue_barium wrote:
    Yeah.

    I just hate the "I'm white and repentent" types.

    Damn from getting upset about apparent rudeness to hate now. You're an interesting character...
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    SilverSeed wrote:
    Damn from getting upset about apparent rudeness to hate now. You're an interesting character...

    you learn quickly...:D

    it's funny, some will keep going and going and going...like a broken record...

    you just happened to meet that "some" today...
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    inmytree wrote:
    you learn quickly...:D

    it's funny, some will keep going and going and going...like a broken record...

    you just happened to meet that "some" today...

    I'm no broken record.

    It's just apparent that to some posters in this thread that the Clinton proposition seems like a racially motivated vote-getting scheme that some think are fair and others think are just political.

    This board has a lot of stupid people. I'm not one of them.

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  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I beg to differ
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    what is money? people here aren't old enough to remember money as it should be. they've accepted paper as having worth.
    here's an example. let's say you got a gold coin in 1880 worth $10.00. in 1900 the price of gold is up and that coin is now worth $15.00. in 1960 someone gave you a $10.00 bill; it's now worth maybe $7.00.
    this is why i convert paper to gold. the price may vary but your money will always make a profit. gold i bought in the 1970's for $280.00/ oz is now worth close to $1000/oz.


    Actually I hate to break it to you but I saw this interesting article in the paper today today about how gold prices no longer keep rising with inflation.

    Forget the golden rule about bullion
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    gue_barium wrote:
    I'm no broken record.

    It's just apparent that to some posters in this thread that the Clinton proposition seems like a racially motivated vote-getting scheme that some think are fair and others think are just political.

    This board has a lot of stupid people. I'm not one of them.

    who said I was referring to you...feeling guilty...?
  • gue_barium wrote:
    I'm no broken record.

    It's just apparent that to some posters in this thread that the Clinton proposition seems like a racially motivated vote-getting scheme that some think are fair and others think are just political.

    This board has a lot of stupid people. I'm not one of them.

    And again! Anger at my saying you ask stupid questions turns into calling others stupid.

    Let's go take a nap and come back to this after some cocoa.
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    inmytree wrote:
    who said I was referring to you...feeling guilty...?

    You replied to a post via a reply to me.

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