Hilary Clinton proposes 401(k)s, matching funds

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

inmytree wrote:

the cost for this program is a drop in the bucket...heck, we're paying 720 Million per Day to play in Irak...

$20 - 25 billion (which is almost definitely a lowball estimate) is not a drop in the bucket. its more like a permanent mini Iraq war.

RainDog

MrSmith wrote:

$20 - 25 billion is not a drop in the bucket. its more like a permanent mini Iraq war.

Only people are saving for their retirement instead of never making it to retirement.

jlew24asu

meme wrote:

Because if we have more than 7 millions we can spare a little to make someone else's life more comfortable?

I have no problem with the plan.
I'm starting to have a problem with heartless fucks though.

whos heartless? I'm a human being who likes choices. I don't need government forcibly taking my money away.

fanch75

know1 wrote:

Yes - I do know that, but I also know that they do send me a statement showing my contributions so it's a bit like they are trying to misrepresent it.

It's a total misrepresentation. There is no account with your name on it, and those numbers you see are based on actuarial estimates, using assumptions that could drastically change (taxes go up, benefits are cut, etc). In essence, that piece of paper is literally meaningless.

onelongsong

know1 wrote:

I really wish the government would let us opt out of Social Security. They can keep EVERYTHING I've contributed to this point and just let me have the money that the employer has to put in on my behalf and I'd gladly sign away my right to ever receive Social Security. It's a no-brainer.

you need to continue paying in so i get my monthly checks. they already spent the money i put in over the last 43 years.

i see your point to one extent. but what if you invest badly? what do we do with you when you're 70 and have nothing? do you take global warming into consideration when you invest? what is the cost of evacuating 2/3 of the population from coastal areas?

in one sentence you say "let us fend for ourselves" and i agree; but don't you also ask for free healthcare? how can it be both ways?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

MrSmith wrote:

so now we have a basic right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, free health care, and retirement benefits? Hell yeah! i think i deserve to have a right to a new Porsche 911 too!

We are gonna need to invade a lot more countries to pay for all this cool shit.

Edit: i also feel i have a right to an xbox 360.

That's pretty much exactly how I see it. The haves "have" because of the have nots.

Exploitation

SilverSeed

A couple things:

know1- You keep saying if we elect democrats, raise taxes, etc. that our liberties go out the window. Our current administration does the oppposite and yet we've seen a huge rescinding of our rights. It seems the democrats are the ones defending our actual day to day rights.

To those who have questioned that a tax on the elite ($7mm plus) can support a large portion of the population. Look at the current divide. The top 10% control an enormous amount of wealth. Even taxing the elite evenly (a 7mm estate taxed at the same rate as a 70mm, 700mm, etc.) would create very large sums for this program. Many of you are complaining that the government wants to take your money without your choice. If any of you are worth 7mm+, shut the hell up and help others out.

Peace

onelongsong

meme wrote:

Because if we have more than 7 millions we can spare a little to make someone else's life more comfortable?

I have no problem with the plan.
I'm starting to have a problem with heartless fucks though.

so if you were an american; you'd have no problem with the government taking away your family's money? mostly to give to layabouts who don't want to go out and work. i don't believe that.

jlew24asu

SilverSeed wrote:

A couple things:

know1- You keep saying if we elect democrats, raise taxes, etc. that our liberties go out the window. Our current administration does the oppposite and yet we've seen a huge rescinding of our rights. It seems the democrats are the ones defending our actual day to day rights.

huge rescinding of our rights? how so?

SilverSeed wrote:

To those who have questioned that a tax on the elite ($7mm plus) can support a large portion of the population. Look at the current divide. The top 10% control an enormous amount of wealth. Even taxing the elite evenly (a 7mm estate taxed at the same rate as a 70mm, 700mm, etc.) would create very large sums for this program. Many of you are complaining that the government wants to take your money without your choice. If any of you are worth 7mm+, shut the hell up and help others out.

Peace

who are you to tell others to shut up and stand in line. no, I'm not in the 7 million+ category but I certainly plan to be. you know how i'll get there? hard work and determination. and after I spend many years of hard work, I don't accept to sit back and BE FOCRED to give it to (in many cases) lazy people. I absolutely will give to charities that I see fit and give my children a chance to be succussful. seriously, who the fuck are you?

onelongsong

SilverSeed wrote:

A couple things:

know1- You keep saying if we elect democrats, raise taxes, etc. that our liberties go out the window. Our current administration does the oppposite and yet we've seen a huge rescinding of our rights. It seems the democrats are the ones defending our actual day to day rights.

To those who have questioned that a tax on the elite ($7mm plus) can support a large portion of the population. Look at the current divide. The top 10% control an enormous amount of wealth. Even taxing the elite evenly (a 7mm estate taxed at the same rate as a 70mm, 700mm, etc.) would create very large sums for this program. Many of you are complaining that the government wants to take your money without your choice. If any of you are worth 7mm+, shut the hell up and help others out.

Peace

excuse me??? get off your arse and work like we had to. i was born dirt poor and i remember the day when we all sat down with a couple lawyers because my dad was worth over 13 mil and we had to set up trusts so the government couldn't take it. that money is for our family. grandchildren and their grandchildren and hopefully; their grandchildren. we didn't work for people we never met. how dare you feel this sense of entitlement. i worked 2 jobs (sometimes 3) until i became disabled and then i started a business i could run on a part time basis. i'm working for my future generations. i HAVE because i've worked and earned it. what makes you so special that i should give to you?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

posting all day in the PIT is hard work...

even flow?

Maybe she should say that if you make minimum wage or only $2.00 more then you don't have to pay to the fund. But that wouldn't make it right either.

inmytree

SilverSeed wrote:

A couple things:

know1- You keep saying if we elect democrats, raise taxes, etc. that our liberties go out the window. Our current administration does the oppposite and yet we've seen a huge rescinding of our rights. It seems the democrats are the ones defending our actual day to day rights.

To those who have questioned that a tax on the elite ($7mm plus) can support a large portion of the population. Look at the current divide. The top 10% control an enormous amount of wealth. Even taxing the elite evenly (a 7mm estate taxed at the same rate as a 70mm, 700mm, etc.) would create very large sums for this program. Many of you are complaining that the government wants to take your money without your choice. If any of you are worth 7mm+, shut the hell up and help others out.

Peace

nice post, SS...don't let aggression of others keep you away...

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

That's pretty much exactly how I see it. The haves "have" because of the have nots.

Exploitation

if thats the case, better make sure you're a 'have'. Cuz its been this way since bacteria started multiplying.

SilverSeed

I'm actually a fairly well off upper middle class white guy. I have a good job and make good money. I'm not so proud to think that I did it all on my own. I know that being a white male (ahem, pearl jam fans...) has afforded me great luxuries and a head start. I also believe that our current system necessarily creates large wealth disparities and that government needs to step in to shrink those (obviously this is a very difficult suggestion, especially with our government).

I'm not, I repeat, not trying to tell any of you how to live or split up your current wealth. If that wealth, however, is greater than the amount cited in this proposal, and this proposal becomes law, I would expect you to comply (and I would hope you wouldn't let a little more taxes take away from your already extravegant lifestyle).

Just because I'm new to the board means I'm not allowed to have views?

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Maybe after they close tax loopholes, fix medicare and social security and curb the bloated budget, then we can discuss retirement plans. But the last thing this country needs is yet another cumbersome, innefficient social program to go with all the other ones that aren't sustainable. And no way the super wealthy will pay for this. it will end up being middle class who take it up the ass. it happens every time. Bill ran on taxing the rich, but once he was in office admitted the middle class would have to pay more as well.

Its Evolution Baby

How much of the 7 Million do you think the government is going to take???

Its not like they are going to take half of your money and spread it out amongst others. It will most likely be a difference of a hundred or so dollars a year.

You probably make more then that on interest of your money in a savings acct.

If I had 7 million dollars and I knew that the excess money that I have was going to help people I would feel pretty good about myself.

When I hear things like I don't want my money going to people who don't work, it makes me sad because 1. you don't need all of that money, and 2. How the fuck do you know that these people aren't working there asses off but its for a company that has not retirement plan.

Why do so many people with money turn out to be so heartless???

*edit: I should add that I am not in favor of this plan because we have a ton of other issues that we should focus on right now. I just had to post after reading a bunch of poor me my money is all going to the poor posts. It made me sick.

gue_barium

SilverSeed wrote:

I'm actually a fairly well off upper middle class white guy. I have a good job and make good money. I'm not so proud to think that I did it all on my own. I know that being a white male (ahem, pearl jam fans...) has afforded me great luxuries and a head start. I also believe that our current system necessarily creates large wealth disparities and that government needs to step in to shrink those (obviously this is a very difficult suggestion, especially with our government).

I'm not, I repeat, not trying to tell any of you how to live or split up your current wealth. If that wealth, however, is greater than the amount cited in this proposal, and this proposal becomes law, I would expect you to comply (and I would hope you wouldn't let a little more taxes take away from your already extravegant lifestyle).

Just because I'm new to the board means I'm not allowed to have views?

How does "being a white male" "afford great luxuries and a head start?" That's news to me.

jlew24asu

SilverSeed wrote:

Just because I'm new to the board means I'm not allowed to have views?

you are 100% entitled to any opinion or view you want. this is a message board however, be prepared to be challenged on your views sometimes.

onelongsong

know1 wrote:

So if I'm one of the people who does have plenty to survive (and survival is very subjective - there are people who make more than me who are struggling to "survive:) why should I be FORCED to also give to those who don't? I may choose to give to help them out, but I oppose it being mandatory.

i agree with you 100%. and i also wonder about these recipiants. i won't pay $5.00 for a cup of coffee. i use 1 tele and i was given a dvd player as a gift years ago and i haven't used it yet. except for my meds; i'm mostly self sufficient. i generate my own power too. i haven't been to a movie theater since 1996 and before that; it has to be in the mid 80's.
the point here is that my lifestyle has allowed me to accumulate more money than the average person. why should i be forced to give the money i save to people who don't follow my lifestyle? for example; i know someone who drinks at least 3 cups of starbucks each day. that's $450 per month not including the gas to drive to starbucks. i can make 3 cups of coffee for under $1.00.

now we have to think about natural and unnatural disasters. you have enough to survive on now; but what about in a disaster? if you are forced to give money away now; you may not have enough to survive on after a disaster.
i too know a couple of people that make more than me and they struggle. most of their money goes to finance charges (i pay cash for everything) and they have teles and dvd players in every room; and can't start their day without a $5.00 cup of coffee; etc. in my eyes; they are trying to live a lifestyle they can't afford. people need to learn to live within their means.
instead of buying a $5.00 cup of coffee because everyone else in the office does; realize they are paying $5.00 for a cup of coffe worth 25 cents.