Castro reportedly in 'grave' condition

angelica

MakingWaves wrote:

I know that is what America wants and if Cuba decides they want it and want to talk to the American government about ways we can help them then I am all for it. The main point is Cuba has to want it first.

I agree. It's about the even playing field and balanced, healthy movement.

jlew24asu

mammasan wrote:

I think it's viewed in a negative manner because at times, not all the time, American investment usually leads to corporations praying upon the inhabitants of that country.

sure capitalism isnt perfect but hopefully there are laws that prevent huge corps from abusing the system such stopping a monopoly.

mammasan wrote:

I'll go back to United Fruit in Cuba. During the Batista regime United Fruit produce came from large plantations/farmer in Cuba. These plantations/farms where usually owned and operated by people with connections to Batista. The produce was sold to United Fruit for less than market value so that smaller farmers couldn't possible compete. Batista was provided with finacial incentives to make sure that no one rocked the boat. It is senerios like this one that cause people to be very weary of US investiment.

I see the point here, I do but....American Investment can bring jobs and wealth to cuba. if cuba is smart about it, they can set tough rules or tax the shit out of american corporations. even with high taxes american companies will still go there. and american money will help the cuban economy.

jlew24asu

MakingWaves wrote:

If the Cuban Government doesn't want freedom then forcing with a gun would be the only way to do it. You can't have it both ways.

I thought you wanted what the cuban people wanted, not the government

Heineken Helen

mammasan wrote:

I think it's viewed in a negative manner because at times, not all the time, American investment usually leads to corporations praying upon the inhabitants of that country. I'll go back to United Fruit in Cuba. During the Batista regime United Fruit produce came from large plantations/farmer in Cuba. These plantations/farms where usually owned and operated by people with connections to Batista. The produce was sold to United Fruit for less than market value so that smaller farmers couldn't possible compete. Batista was provided with finacial incentives to make sure that no one rocked the boat. It is senerios like this one that cause people to be very weary of US investiment.

Exactly! How can a country politically disagree the US or even accuse them of doing something wrong when there are quite a few American companies in that country? America could easily threaten to pull out all their companies... it's like the US owning a country VIA their corporations. It stinks.

jlew24asu

MakingWaves wrote:

The main point is Cuba has to want it first.

again, the cuban people? or the cuban dictator?

the people dont have much say in the matter. this is what you and angelica fail to realize

angelica

jlew24asu wrote:

sure capitalism isnt perfect but hopefully there are laws that prevent huge corps from abusing the system such stopping a monopoly.

I see the point here, I do but....American Investment can bring jobs and wealth to cuba. if cuba is smart about it, they can set tough rules or tax the shit out of american corporations. even with high taxes american companies will still go there. and american money will help the cuban economy.

jlew, I believe you mis-accredited these quotes to me when they are actually from mammasan.

baraka

jlew24asu wrote:

again. what is America's way that you do not want imposed? save me the psycho babble bullshit

It's clear you have missed the point. You stated that you'd like to see Cuba have freedom, even if it means 'forcing' it on them. Do you not see the problem with this statement? I am not 'free' if another is 'forcing' themselves on me, even in the name of freedom. Now, there is no problem in helping a nation achieve freedom, but the idea of 'force' should not enter the equation or you are no better than the dictators you oppose.

Heineken Helen

jlew24asu wrote:

I thought you wanted what the cuban people wanted, not the government

Look I don't think many of us have a problem with the US literally helping countries who need and WANT help. If a country doesn't ask for your help... what do you care? There are countries all over Africa, Asia, wherever BEGGING for help... but they're constantly ignored. Can we help those who WANT it first? It might make the world a slightly better place. There are vicious dictators all over Africa and people wondering why we're just ignoring them. Why are we? These people WANT our help but we go 'imposing our help' on those who haven't asked... what's that about?

baraka

jlew24asu wrote:

again, the cuban people? or the cuban dictator?

the people dont have much say in the matter. this is what you and angelica fail to realize

With your idea of force, the cuban people STILL would have no say in the matter.

jlew24asu

baraka wrote:

With your idea of force, the cuban people STILL would have no say in the matter.

I know, I'm fucking crazy to think the cuban people want to be free

angelica

Heineken Helen wrote:

Exactly! How can a country politically disagree the US or even accuse them of doing something wrong when there are quite a few American companies in that country? America could easily threaten to pull out all their companies... it's like the US owning a country VIA their corporations. It stinks.

It's very simple for the US to enter the area of coersion by using subtle or crude psychological forces that are manipulative, and that perpetuate power imbalances. Unfortunately, people are justifying doing so, and attaching a fine moral high ground to that as well. The more of us who dismantle the illusion of that moral high ground, the better the chance of creating healthy progress in this situation. Ultimately all power imbalances set up imbalanced consequences to reverberate back in unhealthy ways.

musicismylife78

Answer me this then:
Why does the u.s. care about Castro? Why is our recent history littered with comical attempts on Castro's life? What goddamn difference does it make if he overthrew Batista? Why does the u.s. care so much about him?

I stand by my statement. Castro stood up to the u.s. Thats an honorable thing. He stood his ground. He didnt take the u.s's crap. Just because the u.s. feels something is right (that castro shouldnt be in power) doesnt make that belief right.

Castro isnt perfect but what hero is? Even if your a Bush loving war supporting republican you have alot to atone for! In fact, why is supporting Castro condemned by insensitive people on this board, but being pro Iraq war which resulted in the deaths of 500000 plus Iraqi civilians and 3000 plus American soldiers, why is that looked at as honorable. I would support Castro any day, Bush is a liar and a killer. Castro isnt.

If supporting castro raising eyebrows, I dont really care to be honest. He has some great ideas, and he should be praised for them.

I just love the hipocrisy on this board. Supporting Bush, who basically is the devil incarnate is justifiable, but if someone says they support Castro they are treasonous! Doesnt work out in my mind!

Castro is a hero for saying "no" to the u.s. and doing things his own way. And again, lets be real, if he wants a socialist state why the hell shouldnt he have one?

jlew24asu

Heineken Helen wrote:

Look I don't think many of us have a problem with the US literally helping countries who need and WANT help. If a country doesn't ask for your help

people under rule of a dictator arent allowed to ask for help. and with thousands of cubans risking their lives by floating on a makeshift raft to escape is a sign that they need help.

...

Heineken Helen wrote:

what do you care?

because I would like people to be free.

Heineken Helen wrote:

There are countries all over Africa, Asia, wherever BEGGING for help... but they're constantly ignored. Can we help those who WANT it first? It might make the world a slightly better place. There are vicious dictators all over Africa and people wondering why we're just ignoring them. Why are we? These people WANT our help but we go 'imposing our help' on those who haven't asked... what's that about?

there is plenty of help going to Africa. and there are 54 countries in africa and 85% (just a guess) are under dictatorships. should we go marching around changing the world? ok lets go.

musicismylife78

if castro is called a dictator, what the hell is Bush? A dictator inposes ideas on a country and rules with an iron fist and doesnt listen to the populace. That doesnt sound like our monkey boy does it?

jlew24asu

Cheguevara6 wrote:

Answer me this then:
Why does the u.s. care about Castro? Why is our recent history littered with comical attempts on Castro's life? What goddamn difference does it make if he overthrew Batista? Why does the u.s. care so much about him?

I stand by my statement. Castro stood up to the u.s. Thats an honorable thing. He stood his ground. He didnt take the u.s's crap. Just because the u.s. feels something is right (that castro shouldnt be in power) doesnt make that belief right.

Castro isnt perfect but what hero is? Even if your a Bush loving war supporting republican you have alot to atone for! In fact, why is supporting Castro condemned by insensitive people on this board, but being pro Iraq war which resulted in the deaths of 500000 plus Iraqi civilians and 3000 plus American soldiers, why is that looked at as honorable. I would support Castro any day, Bush is a liar and a killer. Castro isnt.

If supporting castro raising eyebrows, I dont really care to be honest. He has some great ideas, and he should be praised for them.

I just love the hipocrisy on this board. Supporting Bush, who basically is the devil incarnate is justifiable, but if someone says they support Castro they are treasonous! Doesnt work out in my mind!

Castro is a hero for saying "no" to the u.s. and doing things his own way. And again, lets be real, if he wants a socialist state why the hell shouldnt he have one?

you need help

angelica

Heineken Helen wrote:

Look I don't think many of us have a problem with the US literally helping countries who need and WANT help. If a country doesn't ask for your help... what do you care? There are countries all over Africa, Asia, wherever BEGGING for help... but they're constantly ignored. Can we help those who WANT it first? It might make the world a slightly better place. There are vicious dictators all over Africa and people wondering why we're just ignoring them. Why are we? These people WANT our help but we go 'imposing our help' on those who haven't asked... what's that about?

You hit the nail on the head in how to avoid the imbalanced cycles: If someone asks for help, then help. If they don't ask, your help is unwanted and ethically your hands are tied.

jlew24asu

Cheguevara6 wrote:

if castro is called a dictator, what the hell is Bush? A dictator inposes ideas on a country and rules with an iron fist and doesnt listen to the populace. That doesnt sound like our monkey boy does it?

bush was voted in by the people, go bother someone else.

jlew24asu

angelica wrote:

You hit the nail on the head in how to avoid the imbalanced cycles: If someone asks for help, then help. If they don't ask, your help is unwanted and ethically your hands are tied.

wake up. someone(cuban people) CANNOT ask for help under a dictator.

musicismylife78

answer the question I keep asking, why does the u.s. care about castro? It doesnt care at all about helping people, the u.s. could care less about all that. Why is it so interested in what castro does?

And again, what is our own president and our own system if cuba is considered a dictatorship?

baraka

jlew24asu wrote:

I know, I'm fucking crazy to think the cuban people want to be free

You don't want the cuban people to be free, you want to impose your will on them. See my other response to you. An individual can NOT be free if you are 'forcing' anything on them and giving them no choice. Again, this makes you no different than the dictators you oppose.