...
The problem is... the ones I speak of are the ones who are more likely to compalin about speaking Spanish.
...
I just learn the cuss words in Spanish... that way I can tell if they'll calling me an culo or a hoto.
and what is it that you'd be doing to be called an ass anyway?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Good point. II know that there are immigrants out there that have no desire to learn the language. You know tough shit on them if they have a hard time getting by, but most immigrants want to learn the language. What we have to styart realizing is that it doesn't happen over night. It's going to take some time for that person to learn the language and we should at least be tolerant of their lack of mastery of English. The biggest pet peeve of mine is when I hear some idiot complain about the multiple language option on an ATM. Is it really an inconvenience for you to have to hit that extra button to select english.
the thread is about an official language. people can speak what they want. the official language is for government purposes.
I was always partial to the Ebonics that was coming out of America back in the mid 80's. Especially the, hooked on Ebonics tapes you could buy. So my vote would go to Ebonics as the official language of the United States of America.
After that I think you should start teaching the English that the rest of the world uses in your schools so your children won't have to keep knocking letters out of words so they are easier to spell and look the way they are pronounced.
youre so damn brililant, i think you oughta get some nobel prize
I live in a predominant hispanic neighborhood and I haven't run across anyone working in a store who can't speak english. their english may not be perfect but it's good enough to get their job done.
what the hell does hispanic mean?
im part indian and that tribe lived in "mexico" or texas possibly
so a yaqi indian from mexcio is a hispanic?
i have more in common with a yaqui than the bigots on this board
many of us indians speak spanish as well so watch yourself
do reserch- hispanic crap was created by richard nixon
I'm aware of hispanic organizations with their hispanic power attitude, like Nation of Aztlan and the National Council of La Raza. These people are a minority though and 95% of hispanics pay them no mind. Just like 95% of Anglos pay the KKK no mind.
then why the helldidnt you say that in the other post instead of agruing?!!
you're just desperate for validation arent you? can't resist a single instance of smug self-congratulation can you?
It's more like....I'm trying to help you understand the words that are coming out of your own mouth. You don't seem to know what you're saying. I think the desperation for validation analysis is a case of projection on your part. And, no, I don't enjoy informing you of that. I just hope you learn from it.
i never said culture is irrelevant, i said your idea of culture is narrow-minded. it embraces much more than simple ethnicity.
Yet, you say...
the japanese ARE different from the americans
the japanese...hmmm..isn't that an ethnicity?
the indians
Aren't they also an ethnicty? You say that cultures are more than an ethnicity, yet you have no problem defining cultures by their ethnicity. Why is that?
that aspect of it is waning, i never said it is irrelevant or that it is bad and should go away. just that's it's one aspect of culture that seems to be growing less important as other expressions of culture take its place.
Growing less important as other cultures take their place? But, you just said that there is no such thing as a truly ethnic culture. You said that by saying that there's more to culture than ethnicity. Now you're saying that there is such a thing as ethnic culture, but that it's growing less important. And you also think that by saying that, you aren't referring to them as being irrelevant? Just less important? Do you really know what you're trying to say?
i said the development of culture allowed us to descend from trees yes. teamwork will always produce culture. so no matter what kind of teamwork you have, it's going to produce some sort of culture. we would not have left the trees without teamwork, and that teamwork inevitably would have produced some sort of culture. it wasn't even ethnic culture then. my point is, the two are inseparable for all practical purposes. you cannot have one without the other.
I agree. Notice you did not mention ethnic cultures. I don't see them as relevant to teamwork either.
you're so wrapped up in how the man is telling you how to act... maybe if you worried less about whatever it is you think "culture" is forcing you to do and a little more on doing what you like, you'd find that it's as easy to be an original thinker now as it ever has been.
The man? No. Co-workers who think bloodline is indicative of culture, which, in their opinion, is indicative of attitude? Yes. You think workplace discrmination doesn't exist? I think you're just not understanding the situation. How much work experience do you have?
nobody would think of deviating from their ethnic constructs until 100 years ago? how egomaniacal of you. the founding fathers were prototypes of this. christianity caused one of the largest cultural upheavals ever and islam is doing the same right now. darwin advocated evolution which rocked the world. feudalism gave way to the renaissance. the british empire gave way to industrialism. history is full of massive shifts in culture. if this were not the case, nothing would have changed in the last 9900 years. but go ahead, pretend you're the first generation to ever buck the man if it makes you feel special.
also, if you truly think someone asking you that question jeopardized your job security, you REALLY need counseling to fix that persecution complex you've got going.
Again, I think this is more projection on your part. I have no interest in believing that I am some original thinker who is trying to change the world. I am merely pointing out how much the world hasn't changed in spite of the perception otherwise. You believe that having this point of view is indicative of ego, but then I would have to wonder why my view is not accompanied by a sense of grandjeur -only concern.
I just think you might be a bit on the naive side in terms of understanding how perceptions of ethnicity and ethnic-based culture can influence a person's job security. It's a sad reality of the workplace, and when a co-worker is trying to picture what kind of person I am by asking my bloodline and culture, a person would have to be either naive or stupid to not be concerned, if not offended. Again, I have to wonder how much work experience you really have...or what knowledge you have of workplace discrimination. Questions about bloodline and culture, when asked in a job interview, would warrant a lawsuit. Why is that?
The changes to the way the world lives do exist. I'm not arguing with that. However, you completely ignore the fact that most of those changes encountered significant resistance by culture-preservationists, who, if they had their way, would have enacted the suppression that I am speaking of. Therefore, you are only supporting my point that culture does stunt progression. That isn't to say that progression doesn't still happen. But, on the same token, it can't be said that it wouldn't happen at a faster rate in the absence of the observance of culture. And, again, I'm talking about ethnic culture.
'O course, your response will be to accuse me of having motives derived from ego, insecurity..etc. Projection, my fellow jammer...projection.
Aren't they also an ethnicty? You say that cultures are more than an ethnicity, yet you tend to define cultures by their ethnicity. Why is that?
ethnicity is one kind of culture. ethnic culture is a unique kind of culture and can co-exist with many other kinds of cultures... what part of this are you not getting? any given person can belong to a number of cultures... japanese, corporate, and grunge... all at ONCE. mind-blowing isnt it? you're the one obsessing about ethnic cultures and racism. im saying culture is inherently human and will never be done away with and this ethnic racism that you think is spawned by culture would express itself in different ways if it disappeared tomorrow. instead of your evil co-worker threatening your job becos she thinks you're one of them snobbish japanese (:rolleyes: ), she'd be threatening your job becos she thinks you're one of those anti-establishment grungers, or anarchic punks, or whiny suburban boys, or nerdy tech geeks, or... you see where im going with this? judgments about our fellow humans will not cease just becos we stop talking about ethnicity or eradicate all ethnic differences. it is as human as breathing and walking upright.
as to culture stunting progression... i think you're misrepresenting that. a lot of crazy people come up with dumb ideas. shoudl we have all followed koresh becos he had an original idea of him as messiah? or the hale-bopp folks who worshipped that meteor? no, of course not. becos our status quo became status quo for a reason... it works. sure some elements fear change, but change SHOULD proceed cautiously. an idea must be tested to be determined as sound before it will gain wide acceptance, otherwise we'd all be running off on every fad that floats our way (which happens enough as it is). this takes time. that is why change is slow. progression is not stunted, it is guided and focused to ensure that it is beneficial, rather than counter-productive.
on who has at least one ancestor from the people of Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America, whether or not the person has Spanish ancestry. It is therefore not a racial term, although as used in the United States it often carries racial connotations. The term was first adopted in the United States by the administration of Richard Nixon[1] and has since been used as a broad form of classification in the U.S. census, local and federal employment, mass media, and business market research.
In Spain, Spanish-speaking Latin America and most countries outside the United States, Hispanic/Hispano is not commonly employed as a term for ethnicity; however, thi
t Richard Rodriguez, editor of the Pacific News Service, considers what it means to be Hispanic.
A RealAudio version of this segment is available. NEWSHOUR LINKS: July 9, 1998
A dialogue on race with President Clinton.
Browse NewsHour essays, and coverage of race issues.
RICHARD RODRIGUEZ, Pacific News Service: In Washington recently the Census Bureau predicted that by the year 2005 Hispanics will replace black Americans as our nation's largest minority. 2050 one quarter of all Americans will be Hispanic. The only question I have is this: Do Hispanics exist?
24 million Americans of Hispanic origin.
Essay There are around 24 million Americans who trace their heritage to various countries of Latin America. We call them Hispanics. But I meet Hispanics all the time who reject the label. If they speak of themselves by reference to their ancestral past, they speak of themselves as Bolivians or Puerto Ricans or Colombians or Mexicans.
It was Richard Nixon's administration that came up with the notion of the Hispanic. In 1973, federal bureaucrats divided the nation's population into five: Native American/Eskimo; Asian/Pacific Islander; White; Black; Hispanic. Nearly 25 years later we see and use the word "Hispanic" routinely. I say I am Hispanic. I tell you I am standing on a rundown corner of downtown Los Angeles, the largest Hispanic city in the United States, and look, look at the Hispanic faces. But what do you look for when you expect to see a Hispanic face? In fact, there is no such thing as a Hispanic race.
Every race of the world exists in Latin America. There are Japanese Hispanics. There are African Hispanics. There are blond Hispanics. If many of us are brown, the majority of Hispanics are from Mexico and are, therefore, Mestizo, many us are not.
City Hall It's true a real competition is taking place today between Hispanics and Blacks in LA, a competition for dollars, for housing, for jobs. The city's black neighborhoods--Watts, South Central, Compton--are becoming Hispanic, filling with immigrants from Latin America. There is new Hispanic influence at city hall. Hispanics recently forced the ouster of Willie Williams, LA's black police chief. On the other hand, immigration officials say that the majority of calls they receive reporting illegal immigrants come from African-Americans. While it's important to acknowledge the friction between Hispanic and Black, it's important also to say that any comparison of Black and Hispanic risks utter nonsense, for Hispanic and Black are not finally comparable categories.
Hispanic: A cultural identity.
To put the matter bluntly, there are many Hispanics who are Black. Hispanic is an ethnic, a cultural category, not a racial one. Remember that the next time you hear Hispanics compared to Whites or to Blacks. What you are actually hearing is one group of Americans identified by culture being compared to another Americans identified by race. Here is the most revolutionary aspect of Hispanicity.
Richard Rodriguez I stand here. I tell you I am Hispanic in a country that traditionally insists on racial categories. I define myself not by reference to race or color but by reference to culture. For t
ethnicity is one kind of culture. ethnic culture is a unique kind of culture and can co-exist with many other kinds of cultures... what part of this are you not getting? any given person can belong to a number of cultures... japanese, corporate, and grunge... all at ONCE. mind-blowing isnt it? you're the one obsessing about ethnic cultures and racism. im saying culture is inherently human and will never be done away with and this ethnic racism that you think is spawned by culture would express itself in different ways if it disappeared tomorrow. instead of your evil co-worker threatening your job becos she thinks you're one of them snobbish japanese (:rolleyes: ), she'd be threatening your job becos she thinks you're one of those anti-establishment grungers, or anarchic punks, or whiny suburban boys, or nerdy tech geeks, or... you see where im going with this? judgments about our fellow humans will not cease just becos we stop talking about ethnicity or eradicate all ethnic differences. it is as human as breathing and walking upright.
Again, those cultures should not and do not define who those people are, and to base an opinion on people through the use of cultural identifiers is to skew the idea of the self.
And you're right that it exists on smaller levels that are virtually unavoidable, but you again employ the defeatist attitude by thinking that because those smaller levels have existed to this day, that they will always exist.
But, you are wrong in the sense that it is impractical to expect people to avoid cultural discrimination in the workplace for the simple fact that there are plenty of other types of discrimination that exist anyway. It's, once again, a defeatist attitude that is really beginning to show itself as more of a symptom of argumentativeness on your part.
This is because you keep avoiding the point, which is that cultures, regardless of how unavoidable you think they may be, still have a tendency to cloud a person's perception of other people.
And the reason I take issue with ethnic culture is because it is one of the larger cultural identifiers that is in use today. It's one of the least specific, and therefore, one of the more vague and inaccurate.
Also, I'm not trying to paint my co-worker as evil. I'm saying she is merely closed minded. Yes, there is a difference.
I'm merely saying that she's got a real simplistic outlook that could jeapardize my job security -an outlook that has historically jeapardized job security in the past. It's not evil. It's human.
Your view is that people are closed minded and that's the way people are. So, to complain about it makes me somewhat of a paranoid whiner. But, you are at least somewhat capable of understanding that ethnic culture does not necessarily determine a person's individual personality. So, why do you defend people who can't see things that way? Why do you excuse that behavior as the reason why our society is so advanced? If it is, then why do you see beyond it?
as to culture stunting progression... i think you're misrepresenting that. a lot of crazy people come up with dumb ideas. shoudl we have all followed koresh becos he had an original idea of him as messiah? or the hale-bopp folks who worshipped that meteor? no, of course not. becos our status quo became status quo for a reason... it works. sure some elements fear change, but change SHOULD proceed cautiously. an idea must be tested to be determined as sound before it will gain wide acceptance, otherwise we'd all be running off on every fad that floats our way (which happens enough as it is). this takes time. that is why change is slow. progression is not stunted, it is guided and focused to ensure that it is beneficial, rather than counter-productive.
Again, you're completely ignoring the fact that ideas are sometimes purposely shunned out of culture-preservation. This means the people who shun it do so not because they don't believe in it, but because they've grown accustomed to the status quo that culture creates.
The heaven's gate cult is a different story because the belief that it's impossible to gain entrance to a spaceship through castration and suicide is a belief that transcends specific cultural beliefs. It's a matter of what people commonly believe to be illogical regardless of their cultural identity. It's an example of a belief being shunned because no one believed it, not because they didn't want to change the status quo. It's irrelevant to this discussion, but it's convenient for your argumentative agenda.
Well English is our unofficial official language. You pretty much can't get a decent job in this country without knowing English. I really don't see the need of passing some stupid legislation declaring what is already pretty damn obvious.
then why the helldidnt you say that in the other post instead of agruing?!!
I did. That is the point I was argueing but you are either to stupid and jsut didn't cae to notice. As far as you also having less respect for me because of my joke with hippiemom really doesn't bother me. I really have no desire to be associated with someone like you and could careless what your opinion of me is. Lasty hispanic is not a race, no one ever said it was so you can shove that mythical race crap you know where. It is a term used to describe people from spanish speaking countries in South/Central America.
I do hope that one day you overcome this fear/hatred/prejudice you have towards hispanics, sorry spanish speaking people from Central/South America. Every group in this world has rotten apples, hispanics are no different, but for the most part we are hard working decent loving people. Maybe the day will come when you can stop measuring us by the actions of few lunatics.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Well English is our unofficial official language. You pretty much can't get a decent job in this country without knowing English. I really don't see the need of passing some stupid legislation declaring what is already pretty damn obvious.
How can you help your brother man if you can't talk to him? I agree that it's unofficial, but it should be made official. English should be taught in all public schools, and employers should expect their employees to speak English. Language is the bond that holds us together, and generally keeps us from fighting each other (not saying we don't disagree, but that's better than constant internal civil war).
Of course, being taught second/third languages is totally encouraged!
How can you help your brother man if you can't talk to him? I agree that it's unofficial, but it should be made official. English should be taught in all public schools, and employers should expect their employees to speak English. Language is the bond that holds us together, and generally keeps us from fighting each other (not saying we don't disagree, but that's better than constant internal civil war).
Of course, being taught second/third languages is totally encouraged!
I totally agree. English should be taught in all schools. well said on this post.
t Richard Rodriguez, editor of the Pacific News Service, considers what it means to be Hispanic.
A RealAudio version of this segment is available. NEWSHOUR LINKS: July 9, 1998
A dialogue on race with President Clinton.
Browse NewsHour essays, and coverage of race issues.
RICHARD RODRIGUEZ, Pacific News Service: In Washington recently the Census Bureau predicted that by the year 2005 Hispanics will replace black Americans as our nation's largest minority. 2050 one quarter of all Americans will be Hispanic. The only question I have is this: Do Hispanics exist?
24 million Americans of Hispanic origin.
Essay There are around 24 million Americans who trace their heritage to various countries of Latin America. We call them Hispanics. But I meet Hispanics all the time who reject the label. If they speak of themselves by reference to their ancestral past, they speak of themselves as Bolivians or Puerto Ricans or Colombians or Mexicans.
It was Richard Nixon's administration that came up with the notion of the Hispanic. In 1973, federal bureaucrats divided the nation's population into five: Native American/Eskimo; Asian/Pacific Islander; White; Black; Hispanic. Nearly 25 years later we see and use the word "Hispanic" routinely. I say I am Hispanic. I tell you I am standing on a rundown corner of downtown Los Angeles, the largest Hispanic city in the United States, and look, look at the Hispanic faces. But what do you look for when you expect to see a Hispanic face? In fact, there is no such thing as a Hispanic race.
Every race of the world exists in Latin America. There are Japanese Hispanics. There are African Hispanics. There are blond Hispanics. If many of us are brown, the majority of Hispanics are from Mexico and are, therefore, Mestizo, many us are not.
City Hall It's true a real competition is taking place today between Hispanics and Blacks in LA, a competition for dollars, for housing, for jobs. The city's black neighborhoods--Watts, South Central, Compton--are becoming Hispanic, filling with immigrants from Latin America. There is new Hispanic influence at city hall. Hispanics recently forced the ouster of Willie Williams, LA's black police chief. On the other hand, immigration officials say that the majority of calls they receive reporting illegal immigrants come from African-Americans. While it's important to acknowledge the friction between Hispanic and Black, it's important also to say that any comparison of Black and Hispanic risks utter nonsense, for Hispanic and Black are not finally comparable categories.
Hispanic: A cultural identity.
To put the matter bluntly, there are many Hispanics who are Black. Hispanic is an ethnic, a cultural category, not a racial one. Remember that the next time you hear Hispanics compared to Whites or to Blacks. What you are actually hearing is one group of Americans identified by culture being compared to another Americans identified by race. Here is the most revolutionary aspect of Hispanicity.
Richard Rodriguez I stand here. I tell you I am Hispanic in a country that traditionally insists on racial categories. I define myself not by reference to race or color but by reference to culture. For t
so; by this deffinition; those referred to as hispanics do not qualify for any of the benefits they receive as a minority. ie affirmative action and other programs. if one does agree that they should get this minority status based on ethnic principles; than other ethnic groups should receive the same benefits. that means everybody should receive benefits as everyone has ethnic roots.
calling them all "hispanics" is as silly as calling a black an anglo just because he speaks english
what do we call half black/half whites? half black/half mexican? half mexican/half white?
if we were treated equal in the eyes of the government; we'd call them equals.
Your view is that people are closed minded and that's the way people are. So, to complain about it makes me somewhat of a paranoid whiner. But, you are at least somewhat capable of understanding that ethnic culture does not necessarily determine a person's individual personality. So, why do you defend people who can't see things that way? Why do you excuse that behavior as the reason why our society is so advanced? If it is, then why do you see beyond it?
it's not defeatism, it's picking your battles. people have prejudices. everyone does, even you, even if they're subconscious. we dont have to act on them and most dont. but they are impossible to eradicate. thus, some of it you're just going to have to live with. telling people they're prejudiced or copping an attitude about an innocent question (regardless of its unreasonable basis) is only going to reinforce their negative views. save you energy for a real fight. a stupid, but honest, question from a coworker who is not responsible for hiring you and not making it an issue determinative abotu your employment is creating trouble that does not exist. if this were your boss grilling you about being japanese and trying to make you reassure him you're not snotty or lose your job... then yeah, file a lawsuit.
Again, you're completely ignoring the fact that ideas are sometimes purposely shunned out of culture-preservation. This means the people who shun it do so not because they don't believe in it, but because they've grown accustomed to the status quo that culture creates.
The heaven's gate cult is a different story because the belief that it's impossible to gain entrance to a spaceship through castration and suicide is a belief that transcends specific cultural beliefs. It's a matter of what people commonly believe to be illogical regardless of their cultural identity. It's an example of a belief being shunned because no one believed it, not because they didn't want to change the status quo. It's irrelevant to this discussion, but it's convenient for your argumentative agenda.
it's not irrelevant. every new idea starts as some crackpot scheme by one person. look at christianity. it's a weird concept, but it grew becos people steadily accepted it. ditto for communism... started with marx and people thought it was insane. then it grew to become a legit way of viewing the world. hale-bopp... same thing. only it didn't grow becos it was a dumb idea. the widespread acceptance of new ideas takes time. yes, many elements resist change just becos they hate change and want to preserve the status quo, but these elements are as small in number as the nutjobs buying into things like hale bopp. the only diff is while the hale-bopp crazies have 100 diff weird ideas, the status quo folks are united around one, so they seem much more powerful than they actually are. but you cannot stop an idea whose time has come (someone famous said that). it just takes long, patient effort. the annoying thing about liberals is they dont want to do that, they want things their way NOW.
I'd just like to point out most Europeans only speak or know their native language. It's a myth that they are all polyglots. They might have learned the basics of a second and maybe even third language, but their command of those languages rapidly deteriorates. Although it's true that a lot of Europeans understand English, more or less.
How can you help your brother man if you can't talk to him? I agree that it's unofficial, but it should be made official. English should be taught in all public schools, and employers should expect their employees to speak English. Language is the bond that holds us together, and generally keeps us from fighting each other (not saying we don't disagree, but that's better than constant internal civil war).
Of course, being taught second/third languages is totally encouraged!
English is already taught at schools. Immigrants can even take english courses and for school age children they have ESL courses to help them along. Most good paying jobs require you to know at least basic english. If you don't know the language you are pretty much fucked in this day and age. I just don't see the necessity of having Congress waste time and tax dollars squabling over wether we should make English the official language of the US. We don't need a piece of paper telling us what we already know.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
calling them all "hispanics" is as silly as calling a black an anglo just because he speaks english
No calling a black an anglo because he speaks english is fucking stupid. You know if it makes you feel better I'll refer to us as Latinos or will that be problem.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
English is already taught at schools. Immigrants can even take english courses and for school age children they have ESL courses to help them along. Most good paying jobs require you to know at least basic english. If you don't know the language you are pretty much fucked in this day and age. I just don't see the necessity of having Congress waste time and tax dollars squabling over wether we should make English the official language of the US. We don't need a piece of paper telling us what we already know.
No calling a black an anglo because he speaks english is fucking stupid. You know if it makes you feel better I'll refer to us as Latinos or will that be problem.
so are latinos a race and if not; how do you justify their qualifying for affirmative action benefits?
Comments
and what is it that you'd be doing to be called an ass anyway?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
the thread is about an official language. people can speak what they want. the official language is for government purposes.
You know... flirting with the senoritas latinas mamasitas and shit. Los hermanos y tios no los comprende... I like las mamasitas.
Hail, Hail!!!
perhaps they feel you like them a little too much.
and well misunderstandings can be a bitch to have to deal with.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
joking about killing? i find that disgusting
i respect you little now
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
youre so damn brililant, i think you oughta get some nobel prize
youre a rocket scientist!!
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
what the hell does hispanic mean?
im part indian and that tribe lived in "mexico" or texas possibly
so a yaqi indian from mexcio is a hispanic?
i have more in common with a yaqui than the bigots on this board
many of us indians speak spanish as well so watch yourself
do reserch- hispanic crap was created by richard nixon
hispanic -a mythical race
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
then why the helldidnt you say that in the other post instead of agruing?!!
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
It's more like....I'm trying to help you understand the words that are coming out of your own mouth. You don't seem to know what you're saying. I think the desperation for validation analysis is a case of projection on your part. And, no, I don't enjoy informing you of that. I just hope you learn from it.
Yet, you say...
the japanese...hmmm..isn't that an ethnicity?
Aren't they also an ethnicty? You say that cultures are more than an ethnicity, yet you have no problem defining cultures by their ethnicity. Why is that?
Growing less important as other cultures take their place? But, you just said that there is no such thing as a truly ethnic culture. You said that by saying that there's more to culture than ethnicity. Now you're saying that there is such a thing as ethnic culture, but that it's growing less important. And you also think that by saying that, you aren't referring to them as being irrelevant? Just less important? Do you really know what you're trying to say?
I agree. Notice you did not mention ethnic cultures. I don't see them as relevant to teamwork either.
The man? No. Co-workers who think bloodline is indicative of culture, which, in their opinion, is indicative of attitude? Yes. You think workplace discrmination doesn't exist? I think you're just not understanding the situation. How much work experience do you have?
Again, I think this is more projection on your part. I have no interest in believing that I am some original thinker who is trying to change the world. I am merely pointing out how much the world hasn't changed in spite of the perception otherwise. You believe that having this point of view is indicative of ego, but then I would have to wonder why my view is not accompanied by a sense of grandjeur -only concern.
I just think you might be a bit on the naive side in terms of understanding how perceptions of ethnicity and ethnic-based culture can influence a person's job security. It's a sad reality of the workplace, and when a co-worker is trying to picture what kind of person I am by asking my bloodline and culture, a person would have to be either naive or stupid to not be concerned, if not offended. Again, I have to wonder how much work experience you really have...or what knowledge you have of workplace discrimination. Questions about bloodline and culture, when asked in a job interview, would warrant a lawsuit. Why is that?
The changes to the way the world lives do exist. I'm not arguing with that. However, you completely ignore the fact that most of those changes encountered significant resistance by culture-preservationists, who, if they had their way, would have enacted the suppression that I am speaking of. Therefore, you are only supporting my point that culture does stunt progression. That isn't to say that progression doesn't still happen. But, on the same token, it can't be said that it wouldn't happen at a faster rate in the absence of the observance of culture. And, again, I'm talking about ethnic culture.
'O course, your response will be to accuse me of having motives derived from ego, insecurity..etc. Projection, my fellow jammer...projection.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
ethnicity is one kind of culture. ethnic culture is a unique kind of culture and can co-exist with many other kinds of cultures... what part of this are you not getting? any given person can belong to a number of cultures... japanese, corporate, and grunge... all at ONCE. mind-blowing isnt it? you're the one obsessing about ethnic cultures and racism. im saying culture is inherently human and will never be done away with and this ethnic racism that you think is spawned by culture would express itself in different ways if it disappeared tomorrow. instead of your evil co-worker threatening your job becos she thinks you're one of them snobbish japanese (:rolleyes: ), she'd be threatening your job becos she thinks you're one of those anti-establishment grungers, or anarchic punks, or whiny suburban boys, or nerdy tech geeks, or... you see where im going with this? judgments about our fellow humans will not cease just becos we stop talking about ethnicity or eradicate all ethnic differences. it is as human as breathing and walking upright.
as to culture stunting progression... i think you're misrepresenting that. a lot of crazy people come up with dumb ideas. shoudl we have all followed koresh becos he had an original idea of him as messiah? or the hale-bopp folks who worshipped that meteor? no, of course not. becos our status quo became status quo for a reason... it works. sure some elements fear change, but change SHOULD proceed cautiously. an idea must be tested to be determined as sound before it will gain wide acceptance, otherwise we'd all be running off on every fad that floats our way (which happens enough as it is). this takes time. that is why change is slow. progression is not stunted, it is guided and focused to ensure that it is beneficial, rather than counter-productive.
In Spain, Spanish-speaking Latin America and most countries outside the United States, Hispanic/Hispano is not commonly employed as a term for ethnicity; however, thi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic
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t Richard Rodriguez, editor of the Pacific News Service, considers what it means to be Hispanic.
A RealAudio version of this segment is available. NEWSHOUR LINKS: July 9, 1998
A dialogue on race with President Clinton.
Browse NewsHour essays, and coverage of race issues.
RICHARD RODRIGUEZ, Pacific News Service: In Washington recently the Census Bureau predicted that by the year 2005 Hispanics will replace black Americans as our nation's largest minority. 2050 one quarter of all Americans will be Hispanic. The only question I have is this: Do Hispanics exist?
24 million Americans of Hispanic origin.
Essay There are around 24 million Americans who trace their heritage to various countries of Latin America. We call them Hispanics. But I meet Hispanics all the time who reject the label. If they speak of themselves by reference to their ancestral past, they speak of themselves as Bolivians or Puerto Ricans or Colombians or Mexicans.
It was Richard Nixon's administration that came up with the notion of the Hispanic. In 1973, federal bureaucrats divided the nation's population into five: Native American/Eskimo; Asian/Pacific Islander; White; Black; Hispanic. Nearly 25 years later we see and use the word "Hispanic" routinely. I say I am Hispanic. I tell you I am standing on a rundown corner of downtown Los Angeles, the largest Hispanic city in the United States, and look, look at the Hispanic faces. But what do you look for when you expect to see a Hispanic face? In fact, there is no such thing as a Hispanic race.
Every race of the world exists in Latin America. There are Japanese Hispanics. There are African Hispanics. There are blond Hispanics. If many of us are brown, the majority of Hispanics are from Mexico and are, therefore, Mestizo, many us are not.
City Hall It's true a real competition is taking place today between Hispanics and Blacks in LA, a competition for dollars, for housing, for jobs. The city's black neighborhoods--Watts, South Central, Compton--are becoming Hispanic, filling with immigrants from Latin America. There is new Hispanic influence at city hall. Hispanics recently forced the ouster of Willie Williams, LA's black police chief. On the other hand, immigration officials say that the majority of calls they receive reporting illegal immigrants come from African-Americans. While it's important to acknowledge the friction between Hispanic and Black, it's important also to say that any comparison of Black and Hispanic risks utter nonsense, for Hispanic and Black are not finally comparable categories.
Hispanic: A cultural identity.
To put the matter bluntly, there are many Hispanics who are Black. Hispanic is an ethnic, a cultural category, not a racial one. Remember that the next time you hear Hispanics compared to Whites or to Blacks. What you are actually hearing is one group of Americans identified by culture being compared to another Americans identified by race. Here is the most revolutionary aspect of Hispanicity.
Richard Rodriguez I stand here. I tell you I am Hispanic in a country that traditionally insists on racial categories. I define myself not by reference to race or color but by reference to culture. For t
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Again, those cultures should not and do not define who those people are, and to base an opinion on people through the use of cultural identifiers is to skew the idea of the self.
And you're right that it exists on smaller levels that are virtually unavoidable, but you again employ the defeatist attitude by thinking that because those smaller levels have existed to this day, that they will always exist.
But, you are wrong in the sense that it is impractical to expect people to avoid cultural discrimination in the workplace for the simple fact that there are plenty of other types of discrimination that exist anyway. It's, once again, a defeatist attitude that is really beginning to show itself as more of a symptom of argumentativeness on your part.
This is because you keep avoiding the point, which is that cultures, regardless of how unavoidable you think they may be, still have a tendency to cloud a person's perception of other people.
And the reason I take issue with ethnic culture is because it is one of the larger cultural identifiers that is in use today. It's one of the least specific, and therefore, one of the more vague and inaccurate.
Also, I'm not trying to paint my co-worker as evil. I'm saying she is merely closed minded. Yes, there is a difference.
I'm merely saying that she's got a real simplistic outlook that could jeapardize my job security -an outlook that has historically jeapardized job security in the past. It's not evil. It's human.
Your view is that people are closed minded and that's the way people are. So, to complain about it makes me somewhat of a paranoid whiner. But, you are at least somewhat capable of understanding that ethnic culture does not necessarily determine a person's individual personality. So, why do you defend people who can't see things that way? Why do you excuse that behavior as the reason why our society is so advanced? If it is, then why do you see beyond it?
Again, you're completely ignoring the fact that ideas are sometimes purposely shunned out of culture-preservation. This means the people who shun it do so not because they don't believe in it, but because they've grown accustomed to the status quo that culture creates.
The heaven's gate cult is a different story because the belief that it's impossible to gain entrance to a spaceship through castration and suicide is a belief that transcends specific cultural beliefs. It's a matter of what people commonly believe to be illogical regardless of their cultural identity. It's an example of a belief being shunned because no one believed it, not because they didn't want to change the status quo. It's irrelevant to this discussion, but it's convenient for your argumentative agenda.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
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Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
I did. That is the point I was argueing but you are either to stupid and jsut didn't cae to notice. As far as you also having less respect for me because of my joke with hippiemom really doesn't bother me. I really have no desire to be associated with someone like you and could careless what your opinion of me is. Lasty hispanic is not a race, no one ever said it was so you can shove that mythical race crap you know where. It is a term used to describe people from spanish speaking countries in South/Central America.
I do hope that one day you overcome this fear/hatred/prejudice you have towards hispanics, sorry spanish speaking people from Central/South America. Every group in this world has rotten apples, hispanics are no different, but for the most part we are hard working decent loving people. Maybe the day will come when you can stop measuring us by the actions of few lunatics.
How can you help your brother man if you can't talk to him? I agree that it's unofficial, but it should be made official. English should be taught in all public schools, and employers should expect their employees to speak English. Language is the bond that holds us together, and generally keeps us from fighting each other (not saying we don't disagree, but that's better than constant internal civil war).
Of course, being taught second/third languages is totally encouraged!
so; by this deffinition; those referred to as hispanics do not qualify for any of the benefits they receive as a minority. ie affirmative action and other programs. if one does agree that they should get this minority status based on ethnic principles; than other ethnic groups should receive the same benefits. that means everybody should receive benefits as everyone has ethnic roots.
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what do we call half black/half whites? half black/half mexican? half mexican/half white?
if we were treated equal in the eyes of the government; we'd call them equals.
it's not defeatism, it's picking your battles. people have prejudices. everyone does, even you, even if they're subconscious. we dont have to act on them and most dont. but they are impossible to eradicate. thus, some of it you're just going to have to live with. telling people they're prejudiced or copping an attitude about an innocent question (regardless of its unreasonable basis) is only going to reinforce their negative views. save you energy for a real fight. a stupid, but honest, question from a coworker who is not responsible for hiring you and not making it an issue determinative abotu your employment is creating trouble that does not exist. if this were your boss grilling you about being japanese and trying to make you reassure him you're not snotty or lose your job... then yeah, file a lawsuit.
it's not irrelevant. every new idea starts as some crackpot scheme by one person. look at christianity. it's a weird concept, but it grew becos people steadily accepted it. ditto for communism... started with marx and people thought it was insane. then it grew to become a legit way of viewing the world. hale-bopp... same thing. only it didn't grow becos it was a dumb idea. the widespread acceptance of new ideas takes time. yes, many elements resist change just becos they hate change and want to preserve the status quo, but these elements are as small in number as the nutjobs buying into things like hale bopp. the only diff is while the hale-bopp crazies have 100 diff weird ideas, the status quo folks are united around one, so they seem much more powerful than they actually are. but you cannot stop an idea whose time has come (someone famous said that). it just takes long, patient effort. the annoying thing about liberals is they dont want to do that, they want things their way NOW.
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English is already taught at schools. Immigrants can even take english courses and for school age children they have ESL courses to help them along. Most good paying jobs require you to know at least basic english. If you don't know the language you are pretty much fucked in this day and age. I just don't see the necessity of having Congress waste time and tax dollars squabling over wether we should make English the official language of the US. We don't need a piece of paper telling us what we already know.
No calling a black an anglo because he speaks english is fucking stupid. You know if it makes you feel better I'll refer to us as Latinos or will that be problem.
My time in south Florida has shown me otherwise.
so are latinos a race and if not; how do you justify their qualifying for affirmative action benefits?
we?most people call someone half black black because they look black and they call themselves black
i wonder how blacks are treated in mexico? i heard not too good
id rather go to brazil -more tolerant country
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dont say that or she will call you a raving anti -meixcan
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I don't agree with affirmative action so I can't answer that question for you.