Finding God

sponger

melodious wrote:

i didn't tell her that her closed mind is unbecoming; i told her that her racism and nativism, and patriotism is unbecoming...but mostly her racism....;).

You make it sound as though those concepts are not born from a closed mind. Is that what you really mean to say?

melodious wrote:

the ideas i posed about god serving her was how i interpret her application of al this chruch she goes to.

But here you say she never went to church

melodious wrote:

she never went to church my entire life.

melodious wrote:

i never made a comment to her; in fact i followed protocol and silenced myself, when she told me a bunch of rhetoric...

But here you say you try to teach her to have an open mind and that things end up in a "blasting match." So much for silencing yourself...

melodious wrote:

see my mom as narrow minded and try to forgive and teach her how to have an open mind but, it always ends up in a blasting match...

for me telling her or should i say asserting a principle that is righteous and correct to my mom when she is being ugly towards others is like a test of courage or a measurement for growth..... in past i would keep trying to attain her approval.

Being ugly towards others is not ugly. It's irrational. There is no rational foundation for her views. I agree that patience is a sign of strength, but simply challenging the rationale of hers views is not the same thing as casting them down.

care to explain this..what you mean?

Up to that point, your reason for being against your mother's views was that such views are simply not god's will. Now you want to say that it's merely a case of simple humane logic. That's fine if you want to say that. Still, there's more to it than that. Racism is not disproved with a simple "do unto others" logic. Racism is an entire system of logic with a myriad of talking points that aren't just hushed away on basis that it is anti-social.

melodious wrote:

all i can say is that if i met someone like this person, that i don't think i would want to befriend him/her.. i feel that people who demmonstrate some sense of superiority over others feed more separatism ; therefore until i have the tools or peace to interact cordially it's best for me to stay away...bottom line, social cancer... i don't really think God has anything to do with how I feel about about "do unto others, as you would have done unto you..." Even when my back is turned on God, I still try to give the best of myself... she has a bit of bully mentality and it's a behavior that i find loathesome... i guess maybe i don't respond well...

You shy away from a judgmental mentality because doing so appeals to your sense of harmony, which you practice with or without the teachings of religion. Apparently you are willing to accept a secular view on togetherness, but I was hoping you'd unleash a biblical foundation for it.

melodious wrote:

good thing we all have choices

That is a complete 180 from the "god is the way" point of view that one would normally expect to see in a thread like this. There is hope for you yet.

boxwine_in_hell

Bu2 wrote:

Did not George Harrison say, "I really want to know you....I really want to see you.....I really want to be with you, Lord"....and then get sued for ripping somebody else's song off?

Yeah, Moses has a bulldog of a legal team.

melodious

sponger wrote:

You make it sound as though those concepts are not born from a closed mind. Is that what you really mean to say?

maybe...i have only recently tried to break down this relationship...

But here you say she never went to church

she didnot go to church until the past two years. she chose this chruch becsue it was the church her son went to before he was found dead in a hotel room out of state...

he was her prodigal son, the one who could do no wrong...the one that she let stay in her home while he did his dope and drank...the one who she paid $30. an hour for his carpentry skills while he also collected social security...the same son, who divorced his wife to get the Social Security...the same son who pulled a gun on me, and the same son who had intolerance towards diversity...

But here you say you try to teach her to have an open mind and that things end up in a "blasting match." So much for silencing yourself...

no...i am not trying to teach...moreso, trying to learn...

on this particular event, there was no yelling...and usually never is..it's more of a tone she puts out and i silence myself...and then we change the subject and talk about the "Giants" or some other unmeaningful topic...for me, i was proud to assert for once, because maybe she is acting like the little girl who was never taught to love beyond her Barrios...obviously, she has to see that having an open heart gives us so much more to our lives...maybe she is really afraid and the qualities i detest (fear) is fossilized behavior....

i can see though by exploring this, tht i need to go back to the drawing table becasue i am guilty of questioning her intent...and when we do that, it eats our hearts...

Being ugly towards others is not ugly. It's irrational. There is no rational foundation for her views. I agree that patience is a sign of strength, but simply challenging the rationale of hers views is not the same thing as casting them down.

which avenue would you follow? does not this style of thinking deserve to be cast out?

Up to that point, your reason for being against your mother's views was that such views are simply not god's will.

if god is everything then her views are of God...they are the yang of the yin.....if i go on any further i am questioning her intent.......

Now you want to say that it's merely a case of simple humane logic. That's fine if you want to say that.

nothing is set in stone...i don't claim to have a rational mind, nor a set style ...or maybe I have a style in no style.....how can i say anything about logic or claim logic, when it's a foreigner to me?.

Still, there's more to it than that. Racism is not disproved with a simple "do unto others" logic. Racism is an entire system of logic with a myriad of talking points that aren't just hushed away on basis that it is anti-social.

do you not think that racism would be curbed just a smidgeon if HUmans used this philosophy a bit more... Is racism a part of God? yes...if God is everything then all systmes in the universe are part of God...

but is it up to God to curve all the flaws of HUmans?

and i still wonder about those who claim agnosticism or atheism...What does faith mean to an atheist? does an atheist have faith in the Self...and does calling upon our inner Guide for strength mean we are calling upon God or are we confusing our own strength within with some outside Deity becasue we have been programmed to do so through a nuturing process?

You shy away from a judgmental mentality because doing so appeals to your sense of harmony, which you practice with or without the teachings of religion. Apparently you are willing to accept a secular view on togetherness, but I was hoping you'd unleash a biblical foundation for it.

yet another disappointment!!! I don't quite understand this....secular??? how can I unleash a biblical foundation on anything..I have not read the Bible...so, I am in love with God with an interpretation...I still wonder whether I turn to God becasue I have not yet realized I have all the tools within...

That is a complete 180 from the "god is the way" point of view that one would normally expect to see in a thread like this. There is hope for you yet.

Thank you......!!!!!

I do like the quote from that Book, And God spoke to Moses from a Burning bush....

I think that keeping an open mind is a lesson we as Humans can always improve on...I don't think that the God within me want's to be confined...but then if I look at nature's organizations, their mechanisms do seem to be confine so that these systems can function....

God is opposition too....Hell, God is even in GW......he is the darkness that gives us light...

Life is just amazing.....thanks for this....so very much...

Cosmo

Maybe if we weren't so preoccupied with finding God... or blaming God... or using Him as a crutch for our own personal faults and failures... He would find us.

sponger

melodious wrote:

which avenue would you follow? does not this style of thinking deserve to be cast out?

No, it deserves to be challenged by being laid out for scrutinization. Most die-hard racists can't wait to give their rationalizations for their racist beliefs. They know it's not as simple as color. They believe that blacks are actually different people beneath their skin and that whites truly are a superior race for more reasons than just skin color alone. That's why I say racism is irrational, not ugly.

Nothing will ever be accomplished by casting things out. It will only resurface somewhere else in some form or another.

if god is everything then her views are of God...they are the yang of the yin.....if i go on any further i am questioning her intent.......nothing is set in stone...i don't claim to have a rational mind, nor a set style ...or maybe I have a style in no style.....how can i say anything about logic or claim logic, when it's a foreigner to me?

Ask her to explain the rationale for her racist views and see if they make sense to you. You can't tell me that she just has something against skin color. That's unlikely. She must have some kind of twisted justification for her closed-mindedness.

do you not think that racism would be curbed just a smidgeon if HUmans used this philosophy a bit more... Is racism a part of God? yes...if God is everything then all systmes in the universe are part of God...

No I don't think racism will ever be curbed by just teaching people the importance of harmony. Like I said, the real cure is to get at their twisted rationale for their racist beliefs.

If it interests you, you might consider my post about culture because the same logic applies to racism. It's a matter of people just not knowing themselves well enough to know the difference between themselves and superficial indicators such as race. They've been raised to believe that there are certain human characteristics which should be shunned, but they refuse to acknowledge their own possession of those characteristics. So, they subconsciously transfer that shunning outlook onto the first thing that appears "different" to them, such as race. Suddenly, they've invented a whole new type of people in their minds, and they've given those people all of the negative characteristics that they refuse to acknowledge in themselves. At least that's my take.

but is it up to God to curve all the flaws of HUmans?

It's not a matter of curbing flaws. It's a matter of acceptance of those flaws and the realization that we all share the same flaws.

and i still wonder about those who claim agnosticism or atheism...What does faith mean to an atheist? does an atheist have faith in the Self...and does calling upon our inner Guide for strength mean we are calling upon God or are we confusing our own strength within with some outside Deity becasue we have been programmed to do so through a nuturing process?

As an atheist, I don't have faith in anything. I have yet to hear why that is something that should bother me.

As I see it, the word faith is often interchangeable with the term "seeking higher consciousness". That is, when a person has faith, he/she has made the decision to seek a higher state of consciousness.

But, in my opinion, a higher state of consciousness does not exist. Rather, a clearer state of consciousness exists. Reality has provided me with much more than any sort of spirituality, IMO.

In fact, in my humble opinion, most if not all people who claim to be pursuing a higher state of consciousness are doing so in spite of the fact that they are far from mastering their given state of consciousness. There is a lot about ourselves and the world around us that is yet to be discovered. The "higher" stuff comes after all of that.

sweetpotato

but seriously, i think it shouldn't be so difficult to find your god, if you're gonna have one at all. the trouble is with organized religion, not with the concept of god.

i grew up catholic but i left years ago. tried episcopal, that worked for a while, but now i'm decidedly buddhist. doesn't require a belief in anything other than essential human goodness. works for me.

Collin

sweetpotato wrote:

i grew up catholic but i left years ago. tried episcopal, that worked for a while, but now i'm decidedly buddhist. doesn't require a belief in anything other than essential human goodness. works for me.

"My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness."
-The Dalai Lama

I've read a lot about a lot of religions, and Buddhism is the one that appealed to me the most. The basics of it are so simple and beautiful. I'm not a Buddhist, though, but reading those books really changed me.

melodious

Thanks so much for taking the time...i have a busy a.m...but will be back...again, Big Time appreciation...Gratitude.

melodious

checking in....

haven't absorbed yet...i did realize though that god and open minds are interconnected...like everything else....

it's almost like a little puppy chasing it's tail...which comes first...this note is just to say hey, i appreciate so much the time you have taken for me and also, i am digesting....peace...

if i had a bowdown emoticon, it would be placed here.....xox

my2hands

i found god at walmart, he was on sale that day

melodious

well, it's true you do see god n walmart, if you believe in the chasing tale theory...

deadnote

great prayer

nothing happend

sweetpotato

melodious wrote:

checking in....

haven't absorbed yet...i did realize though that god and open minds are interconnected...like everything else....

it's almost like a little puppy chasing it's tail...which comes first...this note is just to say hey, i appreciate so much the time you have taken for me and also, i am digesting....peace...

if i had a bowdown emoticon, it would be placed here.....xox

here ya go:

[size=+3]m(__)m[/size]

sweetpotato

Collin wrote:

"My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness."
-The Dalai Lama

I've read a lot about a lot of religions, and Buddhism is the one that appealed to me the most. The basics of it are so simple and beautiful. I'm not a Buddhist, though, but reading those books really changed me.

yes, me too. i'm really trying to incorporate the ideas into my daily existence. have you read steve hagen's buddhism plain & simple? it's an excellent introduction.

melodious

deadnote wrote:

great prayer

nothing happend

there is so much happening in what is percieved as " nothing"


m(_ _)m: appealing to my creative side...are you serious...?

Eliot Rosewater

melodious wrote:

Is not Moses saying that he (Moses) wants to know his ownself through the glory of LOVing? Does this not mean that Moses wants to emulate his own eye's vision (perception) of God?

Someone on this board has a signature that says something like, "When did I realize I was God? I was praying and realized I was talking to myself".....

melodious

When did I realize I was God? I was praying and realized I was talking to myself".....

this is one of the most profound quotes I have ever read...

sponger

melodious wrote:

god and open minds are interconnected

Can you explain why with something other than "because god is everything"?

it's almost like a little puppy chasing it's tail...which comes first...

Yes, god logic is nothing other than circular reasoning's finest moment. Now you're getting somewhere.

melodious

sponger,

in all honesty i want to reply to your other posts. consider this post an interest payment, because i do not feel that i am being respectful or that i may exhibit an aloof attitude; so please bear with me...thanks..

Can you explain why with something other than "because god is everything"?

i have a hunch you know this is a struggle, but i will give it a shot:


in order love know yourself (god with_in), you must be able to separate your spiritual side the secular side. the further you get away from sustaining materialsism and outside "quik fixes", the closer you get to meet yourSelf..in order to beable to meet yourSelf, you must have courage to face yourself and to begin to realize that
humans have flaws, ...that's where both the open mind and god become interconnected becasue, you must have the faith to hold onto so that you can cope...do we blame god? do we lean on god? do we come to god only as a bargaining tool? well, if ai and ai are one in the same then, we have to learn to lean on ourselves...

to have an open mind...hmm, that's a tool i am wrestling with...it means that you are willing to let all the facts in and possibilities of events...you cannot rule out that even your child is capable of violation...or you can't rule out that some people are genuinely good while others exist such as ted kiczenski or jeffrey dammer...you must be able to weigh in all the evidence...well, if you cannot see the beginning of time; and you don't see how the universe was created, you cannot prove there is no god...by your own accordance...

Yes, god logic is nothing other than circular reasoning's finest moment.

what's this circular reasoning...and what is it's opposite...i believe the tale chasing theory presents an example of circular but there are always two sides to a coin...

Now you're getting somewhere.

yes..we are getting somewhere, aren't we...

sponger

melodious wrote:

sponger,

in all honesty i want to reply to your other posts. consider this post an interest payment, because i do not feel that i am being respectful or that i may exhibit an aloof attitude; so please bear with me...thanks..

i have a hunch you know this is a struggle, but i will give it a shot:


in order love know yourself (god with_in), you must be able to separate your spiritual side the secular side. the further you get away from sustaining materialsism and outside "quik fixes", the closer you get to meet yourSelf..in order to beable to meet yourSelf, you must have courage to face yourself and to begin to realize that
humans have flaws, ...that's where both the open mind and god become interconnected becasue, you must have the faith to hold onto so that you can cope...do we blame god? do we lean on god? do we come to god only as a bargaining tool? well, if ai and ai are one in the same then, we have to learn to lean on ourselves...

to have an open mind...hmm, that's a tool i am wrestling with...it means that you are willing to let all the facts in and possibilities of events...you cannot rule out that even your child is capable of violation...or you can't rule out that some people are genuinely good while others exist such as ted kiczenski or jeffrey dammer...you must be able to weigh in all the evidence...well, if you cannot see the beginning of time; and you don't see how the universe was created, you cannot prove there is no god...by your own accordance...

I think you're beginning to understand why people turn to god. You know that they have a difficult time with facing their existence with a sense of clarity, and in order to achieve something to that effect, they must comfort their bruised egos with the blanket of "infinite superiority" that is god. How much courage does it take to face ourselves when we have god on our side? Wouldn't courage be more of a requirement if we tried it without him?

My aim is not to prove that god does not exist. There is just no point in proving that he does. Much of what people claim to be possible "only" with the aid of god can be achieved to an equal if not greater extent without him.

What it boils down to is an earnest desire to experience life on life's terms, and sooner or later the patterns of those who claim "spiritual awareness" ultimately reveal a pronounced inability to deduce those terms without -as byrnzie would put it - a "crutch" to fall back on.

what's this circular reasoning...and what is it's opposite...i believe the tale chasing theory presents an example of circular but there are always two sides to a coin...

Circular reasoning is an attempt to support a statement by repeating the statement in different, yet seemingly stronger terms.

In this case, the circle begins with god being responsible for particular human characteristic, and repeats itself with the rationale of god being responsible for everything.

Another fallacy of reasoning to consider when resorting to the use of god is the appeal to authority. God is the supreme being, so there is no reason to question. It's a convenient position to take when one is at a loss for words.