There are some things you just can't get around in the bible. The misogyny is palpable. Children are treated badly. Homosexuality is an "abomination." You could treat your wife as though you owned her, beat your children, and be opposed to any type of gay rights, and still be quite a fine Christian, according to the bible.
.
And its very convienient that you apparently don't really have to do shit to be "quite a fine" Atheist.
The only real requirements seem to be blaming the worlds ills on religion while bitching about the pledge of allegiance and slogans on U.S. currency.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Do you adopt this same attitude when critically assessing science?
String theory or Quantum physics? The best and brightest don't know so why bother asking.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
And its very convienient that you apparently don't really have to do shit to be "quite a fine" Atheist.
The only real requirements seem to be blaming the worlds ills on religion while bitching about the pledge of allegiance and slogans on U.S. currency.
No, the only "requirement" is that you don't believe in god. I can't really call it a requirement though, since there's no organization or authority to require anything. Who would codify the requirements?
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Do you adopt this same attitude when critically assessing science?
String theory or Quantum physics? The best and brightest don't know so why bother asking.
...
But, at least Science provides me answers on that specfic subject. I may not possess the mental capacities to fully understand them... still, the answers are given to me.
....
And Thanx for showing your true Christian Fellowship. Attitudes like yours and Cornifer only point out that my criticisms of Christians are valid.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Do you adopt this same attitude when critically assessing science?
String theory or Quantum physics? The best and brightest don't know so why bother asking.
Ah, but they're working on it!
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
...
And Thanx for showing your true Christian Fellowship. Attitudes like yours and Cornifer only point out that my criticisms of Christians are valid.
If you're expecting people in any group or in any walk of life, or with any kind of religious affiliation to not be human and fallible, you will be disappointed.
It doesn't seem fair to set someone up to an expectation of being more than their human nature allows, and then to put the accountability for their "failure" on them. If you are looking for anything here, it would seem you are looking to see the results of your self-fulfilling prophecy.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
If you're expecting people in any group or in any walk of life, or with any kind of religious affiliation to not be human and fallible, you will be disappointed.
It doesn't seem fair to set someone up to an expectation of being more than their human nature allows, and then to put the accountability for their "failure" on them. If you are looking for anything here, it would seem you are looking to see the results of your self-fulfilling prophecy.
...
Not true.
I really want to find out truths... telling me, "Because the Bible says so" is not the truth. Especially when the ones telling me this can't even explain to me why we're supposed to live by certain rules and discard others. I know God didn't write the Bible... Men did. What makes these men any different from any others? Why doesn't God speak to any of us anymore? I mean, the homeless guy who lives in the streets in Fairfax claims God talks to him... how do we really know He isn't?
and I have tried Christianity a couple of times... as a kid and a teen and a young adult and even as recent as 2001... no one has the time to explain anything... yet, they claim to know the Truth. I am told that they can't explain it... what kind of answer is that? You know it, but you cannot tell me? It's because you don't know... just say, "I don't know"... that would be a truth.
Finally... I run into that pompous attitude by other 'Christians'... just like the ones I run into in here. That is the stereotypical Christian that is created when people claiming to be Christians act in that predictible, stereo-typical manner. If they want people like me to quit seeing them in that light... maybe they should quit acting like that.
...
That's not to say ALL Christians are like that. You and guys like HailHailKC have been very thoughtful and caring... things one would come to expect from people claiming to be followers of the teachings of Jesus Christ. My former neighbor... a great guy. We'd talk for hours and he was honest with me and answered what he could and admitted that he didn't know if Christianity was the only way... it was just the way he had chosen.
That's all i expect. Don't bullshit me with all this great stuff about religion when you're acting like a dick.
And I have a lot of Jewish friends. None of them have ever said anything about going to Hell for not doing this or that. They don't try to convince me of the virtues of their religion... it's theirs and they seem happy with it. So, i'm not going into religion looking and expecting it to fail... I am looking for it to just give me some truths.
Again... the greatest thing I have witnessed, regarding religion, was the Amish after those girls were molested then murdered. I stood in awe of them. If anyone... I'm guessing God and Jesus were, too.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...And Thanx for showing your true Christian Fellowship. Attitudes like yours and Cornifer only point out that my criticisms of Christians are valid.
I'm not sure where you cop this attitude from. But if it makes you day and makes you feel better about yourself then so be it. I think your true colors when you take offense at Christians as a whole rather than as individuals. If you adopted this same attitude by race, well, I'm sure you know what that would make you.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I'm not sure where you cop this attitude from. But if it makes you day and makes you feel better about yourself then so be it. I think your true colors when you take offense at Christians as a whole rather than as individuals. If you adopted this same attitude by race, well, I'm sure you know what that would make you.
...
You're right... you are not a good representative of Christians. If you act like a dick... you're a dick.
...
Reference note listed below.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
....
And Thanx for showing your true Christian Fellowship. Attitudes like yours and Cornifer only point out that my criticisms of Christians are valid.
There's nothing wrong with my attitude. All i've done is challenge your foolish little "Christians are the source of the worlds evil" theory. If you don't want to be challenged there's always the ignore function.
By the way, if i'm "boring", and you aren't "talking TO me" anymore, i'd appreciate you not talking about me. Thats just weak. Thanks.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
...
Oh... I have talked to people in great length about Christianity, the Bible, The Church and so on... I am told that my questions won't be answered in an hour or two or in a week, month or year... or even in my lifetime. This, coming from many sources, including priests.
I figured... if these guys can't answer me... I'm going to have to figure it all out myself. They don't know the answers... no one knows. So, why bother asking them?
I guess that's why they call it faith. There are many tough questions in Christianity and it's like knowledge in any subject. Teh more you study and understand the more complex and the more detailed the anwers become. Use the marriage thing that hippiemom and i were talking about. On the surface it looks like the bible is saying women do whatever men say. The more you read, look at context, original text, historical perspective the more complex or thorough the answer becomes. Then it comes down to willingness to accept that a view previously held may be wrong (it also may be right). Don't think you have to figure it out for yourself though, there are many people who have struggled with those questions and have written about it; i wouldn't take those people's word as infalliable, but if they have studied it they have a little more authority to make claims. Just like in science, you wouldn't accept that something is true b/c some guy on the street said it, but if you read journals and read someone established it can help you form more solid views.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
I guess that's why they call it faith. There are many tough questions in Christianity and it's like knowledge in any subject. Teh more you study and understand the more complex and the more detailed the anwers become. Use the marriage thing that hippiemom and i were talking about. On the surface it looks like the bible is saying women do whatever men say. The more you read, look at context, original text, historical perspective the more complex or thorough the answer becomes. Then it comes down to willingness to accept that a view previously held may be wrong (it also may be right). Don't think you have to figure it out for yourself though, there are many people who have struggled with those questions and have written about it; i wouldn't take those people's word as infalliable, but if they have studied it they have a little more authority to make claims. Just like in science, you wouldn't accept that something is true b/c some guy on the street said it, but if you read journals and read someone established it can help you form more solid views.
...
I think people think I'm anti-Christian... I'm anti-Religion. It think that Religion is nothing more than a government that sets its own laws for people to follow and has influence on many to act in a certain manner. and I'm not anti-Religion for you or anyone else... I'm anti-Religion for me... I just haven't found one that fits.
...
Now... I know many wonderful people who follow the Christian faith.. and the Jewish faith... and no religion at all. I have nothing at all against them. Their faith is something I wish I had at times. I WANT to see a miracle... a real one... not Mary in a Cheeto or Jesus in the toilet when the light is turned on at night. I want to believe, but there are too many factors out there that throw me off the road. I guess the biggest one is the whole, "My religion is right... yours isn't" thing that I often comes across. I'm not buying into that, because I cannot accept the reasoning that God can so easily cast out people, simply for their belief or non-belief.
And I read the Bible... I like the stories. I don't think God is as petty as He seems to be portrayed in it... I mean, did He have to turn Lot's wife into a pillar of salt or do all those horrible things to poor Job in order to witness Job's love for Him? He's all knowing... He's fricken' GOD!!! He should have already known this, shouldn't He have?
And yeah... I know I can't have all of my questions answered in my lifetime. My problem is that I've come across too many a-holes that claim to be Christian (only because that is the pre-dominant religion in my home country) that turns me off of it. That whole thing about Jesus paying for all of their sins seems to give them the impression that they can be assholes and all is forgiven... that's not how it works, right? I think if more Christians were 'Christ-like'... not in the manner of being Jesus... but, come on... at least do the best you can from taking note of His teachings and follow Him as best you can... then, yeah... I can see being Christian.
So far... Amish is looking better and better to me.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Humans are giving themselves too much credit in this thread from what I've been reading.
The notion that we should be comfortable within ourselves, Christian or Atheist, suggests we all must now admit we are posting naked from our PC's.
Humans are giving themselves too much credit in this thread from what I've been reading.
The notion that we should be comfortable within ourselves, Christian or Atheist, suggests we all must now admit we are posting naked from our PC's.
He's got a big gold ring which says "Jesus Saves"
And it's dented from the punch thrown at work that day,
Where he smashed a metal locker where he kept his things
After the big boss said you'd best be on your way
Oh yeah...
So this life is sacrifice
Oh yeah...
Jumping trains just to survive
Well his wife and kids' asleep but he's still awake
On his brain weighs the curse of thirty bills unpaid
Gets up, lights a cigarette he's grown to hate
Thinkin if he can't sleep, how will he ever dream
Yeah...
So this life is sacrifice
Oh yeah...
To a stranger's bottom line
Oh yeah...
I've seen the light
Ohh ohh ohhh... Ohh ohh ohhhh...
I'm scared of life
Near to death
Ohh ohh ohhh... Ohh ohh ohhhh... I've seen the light
Scared of life
Yeah...
So this life is sacrifice
Oh yeah...
Was a dream that had to die
Oh yeah...
I've seen the light
Ohh ohh ohhh... Ohh ohh ohhhh...
And I'm scared alive
Near to death
Ohh ohh ohhh... Ohh ohh ohhhh...
I've seen the light
Scared alive
Ohh ohh ohhh... Ohhhhhh Ohhh..
And I'm near to death
Here to die
Scared alive
Near to death
Here to die
Scared alive...
...
Not true.
I really want to find out truths... telling me, "Because the Bible says so" is not the truth. Especially when the ones telling me this can't even explain to me why we're supposed to live by certain rules and discard others. I know God didn't write the Bible... Men did. What makes these men any different from any others? Why doesn't God speak to any of us anymore? I mean, the homeless guy who lives in the streets in Fairfax claims God talks to him... how do we really know He isn't?
and I have tried Christianity a couple of times... as a kid and a teen and a young adult and even as recent as 2001... no one has the time to explain anything... yet, they claim to know the Truth. I am told that they can't explain it... what kind of answer is that? You know it, but you cannot tell me? It's because you don't know... just say, "I don't know"... that would be a truth.
Finally... I run into that pompous attitude by other 'Christians'... just like the ones I run into in here. That is the stereotypical Christian that is created when people claiming to be Christians act in that predictible, stereo-typical manner. If they want people like me to quit seeing them in that light... maybe they should quit acting like that.
...
That's not to say ALL Christians are like that. You and guys like HailHailKC have been very thoughtful and caring... things one would come to expect from people claiming to be followers of the teachings of Jesus Christ. My former neighbor... a great guy. We'd talk for hours and he was honest with me and answered what he could and admitted that he didn't know if Christianity was the only way... it was just the way he had chosen.
That's all i expect. Don't bullshit me with all this great stuff about religion when you're acting like a dick.
And I have a lot of Jewish friends. None of them have ever said anything about going to Hell for not doing this or that. They don't try to convince me of the virtues of their religion... it's theirs and they seem happy with it. So, i'm not going into religion looking and expecting it to fail... I am looking for it to just give me some truths.
Again... the greatest thing I have witnessed, regarding religion, was the Amish after those girls were molested then murdered. I stood in awe of them. If anyone... I'm guessing God and Jesus were, too.
The difference between finding spiritual Truths and science ones is that the science ones are objective and are externally observed, mapped and can be explained and understood logically and with words, diagrams, etc. The spiritual Truths are subjective and therefore are entirely personal to each individual. Therefore, the only way you will find your Truths is through personal practice--by walking your own path. Many, many people have mapped numerous ways to personal inner transcendence through thousands of years. The information is there. People can show you their map, or you can read about the maps of others, but the only way you can find your own truths is by walking your own inner journey. You won't find God in explanations, anymore than you will find nutritional sustenance from a picture of food in an advertisement. If you are expecting talking about the map to equal being brave and committed enough to take your own journey to your personal truth and sustenance, you'll be waiting for a very long time.
God talks to people all the time. In the widely studied higher levels of human development, people are tapped into spiritual dimensions and their lives are potent and highly creative for it. Abraham Maslow's "self-actualized" individuals, for example--part of the criteria to be considered self-actualized is that these people have experiences where they are tapping this transcendent level of life. ie: "Moment to moment living for him is thrilling, transcending, and spiritual as he lives the present moment to the fullest." (http://www.performance-unlimited.com/samain.htm)
There are many more researchers who have studied and assessed these transcendent levels of understanding in ordinary people the world over. The problem is you can read the words about self-actualization, but you will not find the actualization without a commitment to finding your own personal transcendence. My explanations again will not show you the truth that is inside you. Only honest seeking inside yourself will.
People are where they are. God or not. God might give them inner truth, focus and direction. And yet they people still have to walk their own inner path making mistakes, learning in each day, and changing when they "get" the lessons. I found God at a period where I was a promiscuous, mentally ill single mom, hanging out at bars, and on phone "party" lines. I began having transcendant experiences. I was dramatically affected by them. I saw an overview of my whole life and of my purpose and what I needed to do. Although this transcendence penetrated my low state of personal evolution, I was still left to live my dysfunctioning life in each day. With God, it STILL took me 4 years to give up promiscuity; it took around 7 years to give up smoking, and mental illness; ultimately it's only been recently I have felt freedom from eating disorders. And to this day, not a week goes by that my boyfriend does not call me a hypocrite for being a flawed human being amidst my spiritual beliefs. People can believe in God and be operating at very poor levels of functioning. It is an error to consider their spiritual beliefs to be the cause of that low level of functioning.
The bottom line is that the maps, human behaviours, and people's flawed explanations do not equal God, spirituality or the great truths that have been uncovered. They don't even come close.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
BTW, you forgot the reference note. I guess you're not that perfect either.
...
Go back and re-read it in the context of its entirety...
And I never claimed to be perfect... If anything, I know I'm as fucked up as everybody else.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The difference between finding spiritual Truths and science ones is that the science ones are objective and are externally observed, mapped and can be explained and understood logically and with words, diagrams, etc. The spiritual Truths are subjective and therefore are entirely personal to each individual. Therefore, the only way you will find your Truths is through personal practice--by walking your own path. Many, many people have mapped numerous ways to personal inner transcendence through thousands of years. The information is there. People can show you their map, or you can read about the maps of others, but the only way you can find your own truths is by walking your own inner journey. You won't find God in explanations, anymore than you will find nutritional sustenance from a picture of food in an advertisement. If you are expecting talking about the map to equal being brave and committed enough to take your own journey to your personal truth and sustenance, you'll be waiting for a very long time.
God talks to people all the time. In the widely studied higher levels of human development, people are tapped into spiritual dimensions and their lives are potent and highly creative for it. Abraham Maslow's "self-actualized" individuals, for example--part of the criteria to be considered self-actualized is that these people have experiences where they are tapping this transcendent level of life. ie: "Moment to moment living for him is thrilling, transcending, and spiritual as he lives the present moment to the fullest." (http://www.performance-unlimited.com/samain.htm)
There are many more researchers who have studied and assessed these transcendent levels of understanding in ordinary people the world over. The problem is you can read the words about self-actualization, but you will not find the actualization without a commitment to finding your own personal transcendence. My explanations again will not show you the truth that is inside you. Only honest seeking inside yourself will.
People are where they are. God or not. God might give them inner truth, focus and direction. And yet they people still have to walk their own inner path making mistakes, learning in each day, and changing when they "get" the lessons. I found God at a period where I was a promiscuous, mentally ill single mom, hanging out at bars, and on phone "party" lines. I began having transcendant experiences. I was dramatically affected by them. I saw an overview of my whole life and of my purpose and what I needed to do. Although this transcendence penetrated my low state of personal evolution, I was still left to live my dysfunctioning life in each day. With God, it STILL took me 4 years to give up promiscuity; it took around 7 years to give up smoking, and mental illness; ultimately it's only been recently I have felt freedom from eating disorders. And to this day, not a week goes by that my boyfriend does not call me a hypocrite for being a flawed human being amidst my spiritual beliefs. People can believe in God and be operating at very poor levels of functioning. It is an error to consider their spiritual beliefs to be the cause of that low level of functioning.
The bottom line is that the maps, human behaviours, and people's flawed explanations do not equal God, spirituality or the great truths that have been uncovered. They don't even come close.
...
So... do you go to a regular church on a regular basis? Do you 'belong' to a church and prescribe to their doctrine?
Or did you find God on your own?
...
Because, I looked for God in a chuch and didn't find Him there. That's why I looked towards Nature... that's where I believe He is.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
it's the Christian Science Monitor, what do you expect? :rolleyes:
Those undecided,........ Needn't have faith to be free
And those misguided, There was a plan for them to be
Now you got both sides Claiming killing in Gods name
But God is nowhere,..... To be found, conveniently
...
So... do you go to a regular church on a regular basis? Do you 'belong' to a church and prescribe to their doctrine?
Or did you find God on your own?
No, I do not go to church. I definitely have uncovered my own personal path. I do, however, see and respect the validity to all paths and the well-intended ways people find to outlet their spiritual nature. I can sense people's sincerity and good intent, and I think it is beautiful, precious and heartening. And I can see people's naivete and disconnection from the "dark side"--I do connect the fallout to it's sources. Unfortunately people are unconsciously choosing darkness (in terms of making bad choices) and therefore will learn unconsciously through bad consequences. That's what evolution is about.
Because, I looked for God in a chuch and didn't find Him there. That's why I looked towards Nature... that's where I believe He is.
I have been hearing what you've been saying about your own personal path in this thread. I see that there is an amazing creative force that underlies everything in the universe. The Truth as I see it is that it cannot be limited, carved up and associated with only this or that group. It's so beyond our very comprehension. This force underlies every aspect of the universe including each and every one of us. It embraces each one of us in each moment irrespective of what we believe.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Comments
And its very convienient that you apparently don't really have to do shit to be "quite a fine" Atheist.
The only real requirements seem to be blaming the worlds ills on religion while bitching about the pledge of allegiance and slogans on U.S. currency.
String theory or Quantum physics? The best and brightest don't know so why bother asking.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
But, at least Science provides me answers on that specfic subject. I may not possess the mental capacities to fully understand them... still, the answers are given to me.
....
And Thanx for showing your true Christian Fellowship. Attitudes like yours and Cornifer only point out that my criticisms of Christians are valid.
Hail, Hail!!!
If you're expecting people in any group or in any walk of life, or with any kind of religious affiliation to not be human and fallible, you will be disappointed.
It doesn't seem fair to set someone up to an expectation of being more than their human nature allows, and then to put the accountability for their "failure" on them. If you are looking for anything here, it would seem you are looking to see the results of your self-fulfilling prophecy.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Not true.
I really want to find out truths... telling me, "Because the Bible says so" is not the truth. Especially when the ones telling me this can't even explain to me why we're supposed to live by certain rules and discard others. I know God didn't write the Bible... Men did. What makes these men any different from any others? Why doesn't God speak to any of us anymore? I mean, the homeless guy who lives in the streets in Fairfax claims God talks to him... how do we really know He isn't?
and I have tried Christianity a couple of times... as a kid and a teen and a young adult and even as recent as 2001... no one has the time to explain anything... yet, they claim to know the Truth. I am told that they can't explain it... what kind of answer is that? You know it, but you cannot tell me? It's because you don't know... just say, "I don't know"... that would be a truth.
Finally... I run into that pompous attitude by other 'Christians'... just like the ones I run into in here. That is the stereotypical Christian that is created when people claiming to be Christians act in that predictible, stereo-typical manner. If they want people like me to quit seeing them in that light... maybe they should quit acting like that.
...
That's not to say ALL Christians are like that. You and guys like HailHailKC have been very thoughtful and caring... things one would come to expect from people claiming to be followers of the teachings of Jesus Christ. My former neighbor... a great guy. We'd talk for hours and he was honest with me and answered what he could and admitted that he didn't know if Christianity was the only way... it was just the way he had chosen.
That's all i expect. Don't bullshit me with all this great stuff about religion when you're acting like a dick.
And I have a lot of Jewish friends. None of them have ever said anything about going to Hell for not doing this or that. They don't try to convince me of the virtues of their religion... it's theirs and they seem happy with it. So, i'm not going into religion looking and expecting it to fail... I am looking for it to just give me some truths.
Again... the greatest thing I have witnessed, regarding religion, was the Amish after those girls were molested then murdered. I stood in awe of them. If anyone... I'm guessing God and Jesus were, too.
Hail, Hail!!!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
You're right... you are not a good representative of Christians. If you act like a dick... you're a dick.
...
Reference note listed below.
Hail, Hail!!!
There's nothing wrong with my attitude. All i've done is challenge your foolish little "Christians are the source of the worlds evil" theory. If you don't want to be challenged there's always the ignore function.
By the way, if i'm "boring", and you aren't "talking TO me" anymore, i'd appreciate you not talking about me. Thats just weak. Thanks.
I guess that's why they call it faith. There are many tough questions in Christianity and it's like knowledge in any subject. Teh more you study and understand the more complex and the more detailed the anwers become. Use the marriage thing that hippiemom and i were talking about. On the surface it looks like the bible is saying women do whatever men say. The more you read, look at context, original text, historical perspective the more complex or thorough the answer becomes. Then it comes down to willingness to accept that a view previously held may be wrong (it also may be right). Don't think you have to figure it out for yourself though, there are many people who have struggled with those questions and have written about it; i wouldn't take those people's word as infalliable, but if they have studied it they have a little more authority to make claims. Just like in science, you wouldn't accept that something is true b/c some guy on the street said it, but if you read journals and read someone established it can help you form more solid views.
I think people think I'm anti-Christian... I'm anti-Religion. It think that Religion is nothing more than a government that sets its own laws for people to follow and has influence on many to act in a certain manner. and I'm not anti-Religion for you or anyone else... I'm anti-Religion for me... I just haven't found one that fits.
...
Now... I know many wonderful people who follow the Christian faith.. and the Jewish faith... and no religion at all. I have nothing at all against them. Their faith is something I wish I had at times. I WANT to see a miracle... a real one... not Mary in a Cheeto or Jesus in the toilet when the light is turned on at night. I want to believe, but there are too many factors out there that throw me off the road. I guess the biggest one is the whole, "My religion is right... yours isn't" thing that I often comes across. I'm not buying into that, because I cannot accept the reasoning that God can so easily cast out people, simply for their belief or non-belief.
And I read the Bible... I like the stories. I don't think God is as petty as He seems to be portrayed in it... I mean, did He have to turn Lot's wife into a pillar of salt or do all those horrible things to poor Job in order to witness Job's love for Him? He's all knowing... He's fricken' GOD!!! He should have already known this, shouldn't He have?
And yeah... I know I can't have all of my questions answered in my lifetime. My problem is that I've come across too many a-holes that claim to be Christian (only because that is the pre-dominant religion in my home country) that turns me off of it. That whole thing about Jesus paying for all of their sins seems to give them the impression that they can be assholes and all is forgiven... that's not how it works, right? I think if more Christians were 'Christ-like'... not in the manner of being Jesus... but, come on... at least do the best you can from taking note of His teachings and follow Him as best you can... then, yeah... I can see being Christian.
So far... Amish is looking better and better to me.
Hail, Hail!!!
The notion that we should be comfortable within ourselves, Christian or Atheist, suggests we all must now admit we are posting naked from our PC's.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
You aren't?
I have a towel.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
He's got a big gold ring which says "Jesus Saves"
And it's dented from the punch thrown at work that day,
Where he smashed a metal locker where he kept his things
After the big boss said you'd best be on your way
Oh yeah...
So this life is sacrifice
Oh yeah...
Jumping trains just to survive
Well his wife and kids' asleep but he's still awake
On his brain weighs the curse of thirty bills unpaid
Gets up, lights a cigarette he's grown to hate
Thinkin if he can't sleep, how will he ever dream
Yeah...
So this life is sacrifice
Oh yeah...
To a stranger's bottom line
Oh yeah...
I've seen the light
Ohh ohh ohhh... Ohh ohh ohhhh...
I'm scared of life
Near to death
Ohh ohh ohhh... Ohh ohh ohhhh...
I've seen the light
Scared of life
Yeah...
So this life is sacrifice
Oh yeah...
Was a dream that had to die
Oh yeah...
I've seen the light
Ohh ohh ohhh... Ohh ohh ohhhh...
And I'm scared alive
Near to death
Ohh ohh ohhh... Ohh ohh ohhhh...
I've seen the light
Scared alive
Ohh ohh ohhh... Ohhhhhh Ohhh..
And I'm near to death
Here to die
Scared alive
Near to death
Here to die
Scared alive...
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all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Nice!
And an honest question, how would you feel if the dollar bills and the pledge fo allegiance said "God does not exist"?
Maybe, you would not mind, but believe me the Christian world would be outraged.
naděje umírá poslední
The difference between finding spiritual Truths and science ones is that the science ones are objective and are externally observed, mapped and can be explained and understood logically and with words, diagrams, etc. The spiritual Truths are subjective and therefore are entirely personal to each individual. Therefore, the only way you will find your Truths is through personal practice--by walking your own path. Many, many people have mapped numerous ways to personal inner transcendence through thousands of years. The information is there. People can show you their map, or you can read about the maps of others, but the only way you can find your own truths is by walking your own inner journey. You won't find God in explanations, anymore than you will find nutritional sustenance from a picture of food in an advertisement. If you are expecting talking about the map to equal being brave and committed enough to take your own journey to your personal truth and sustenance, you'll be waiting for a very long time.
God talks to people all the time. In the widely studied higher levels of human development, people are tapped into spiritual dimensions and their lives are potent and highly creative for it. Abraham Maslow's "self-actualized" individuals, for example--part of the criteria to be considered self-actualized is that these people have experiences where they are tapping this transcendent level of life. ie: "Moment to moment living for him is thrilling, transcending, and spiritual as he lives the present moment to the fullest." (http://www.performance-unlimited.com/samain.htm)
There are many more researchers who have studied and assessed these transcendent levels of understanding in ordinary people the world over. The problem is you can read the words about self-actualization, but you will not find the actualization without a commitment to finding your own personal transcendence. My explanations again will not show you the truth that is inside you. Only honest seeking inside yourself will.
People are where they are. God or not. God might give them inner truth, focus and direction. And yet they people still have to walk their own inner path making mistakes, learning in each day, and changing when they "get" the lessons. I found God at a period where I was a promiscuous, mentally ill single mom, hanging out at bars, and on phone "party" lines. I began having transcendant experiences. I was dramatically affected by them. I saw an overview of my whole life and of my purpose and what I needed to do. Although this transcendence penetrated my low state of personal evolution, I was still left to live my dysfunctioning life in each day. With God, it STILL took me 4 years to give up promiscuity; it took around 7 years to give up smoking, and mental illness; ultimately it's only been recently I have felt freedom from eating disorders. And to this day, not a week goes by that my boyfriend does not call me a hypocrite for being a flawed human being amidst my spiritual beliefs. People can believe in God and be operating at very poor levels of functioning. It is an error to consider their spiritual beliefs to be the cause of that low level of functioning.
The bottom line is that the maps, human behaviours, and people's flawed explanations do not equal God, spirituality or the great truths that have been uncovered. They don't even come close.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Go back and re-read it in the context of its entirety...
And I never claimed to be perfect... If anything, I know I'm as fucked up as everybody else.
Hail, Hail!!!
So... do you go to a regular church on a regular basis? Do you 'belong' to a church and prescribe to their doctrine?
Or did you find God on your own?
...
Because, I looked for God in a chuch and didn't find Him there. That's why I looked towards Nature... that's where I believe He is.
Hail, Hail!!!
And those misguided, There was a plan for them to be
Now you got both sides Claiming killing in Gods name
But God is nowhere,..... To be found, conveniently
What goes on?
I have been hearing what you've been saying about your own personal path in this thread. I see that there is an amazing creative force that underlies everything in the universe. The Truth as I see it is that it cannot be limited, carved up and associated with only this or that group. It's so beyond our very comprehension. This force underlies every aspect of the universe including each and every one of us. It embraces each one of us in each moment irrespective of what we believe.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!