gay people raising children

angelica

Riot_Rain wrote:

So you are telling me that I was fascinated by homosexuality and that that was normal, but somehow I let it get to me too much? And that when I fell head over heels in love with my g/f, I should've thought to myself "oh, wait a minute, it's not falling in love, it's a gay moment, I should stop it NOW"? And you compare this to training yourself to eat foods you don't like or know?

So in that case, you are saying that heterosexuality is like only eating the food that a certain society has always eaten and refusing to vary the diet. You are saying that heterosexuality is also trained behaviour.

I don't agree with your theory

I'm glad to hear that you are comfortable being yourself and that you accept who you are, thoughts, feelings and intuitions.

It's pretty easy to spot when others are trying to get people to change to suit their own personal agendas, and due to their own discomfort. They identify themselves by not accepting who others are. They don't seem to recognise that it would be literally the mentally unstable thing to do for others to change to suit another person's view.

Thanks for sharing your perspective here.

angelica

"...invalidation of their feelings turns people into mental invalids. The result of discounts is that people become split within themselves. A whole portion of their being, their feelings, is not acknowledged and perhaps eventually not even felt. The feelings continue to exist, however, they affect large parts of the person's bodily states and behaviour. Unexpressed anger, shame, fear, sadness build and eventually find expression anyway.

This is an excerpt from the book "Scripts People Live".

Most of us are quite unconscious of how our thoughts and emotions and general brain functions work. For many of us this stuff is beneath the surface of our awareness because we do not allow it into awareness. Many times, we think things that go wrong are because of those around us, because we are unaware of our own actions and their causes.

The way we become more aware of our brain functioning is by paying attention to our thoughts and emotions and what they say about us, NOT by ignoring what they say about us. Ignorance is the opposite of awareness. When we can look at an accept all parts of our thoughts, feelings, preferences, etc, then we can achieve more a sense of wholeness. At this point an overwhelming majority of us are split from our very selves according to base psychology and we have the dysfunctions and addictions to show for it.

porchdweller

Well, my current possibly ex-girlfriend has two moms. She doesn't think their gay cause she hasn't seen them being intimate or affectionate. Maybe they aren't I don't know. But they are definitely life partners and it's fucked her up pretty bad cause she is insecure anyway and being made fun of about having lesbian moms didn't help. Could be bad parenting too, i'll shut my mouth about this. This is just one issue that added fuel to her firestorm of issues, adopted, lesbian parents, in pagents and shit growing up, singing in that mickey mouse club and shit, ridiculously spoiled, etc. I think in this case it was just one more combustible ingredient. Under ideal circumstances obviously 1 father 1 mother may be the best way. But I would much rather a child have two loving caring gay parents than one selfish uncaring real parent or no parents or two that don't give a shit. Just my two cents.

decides2dream

harmless_little_f*** wrote:

Can we PLEASE stop comparing infertile couples to gay couples. It's really not the same thing. Thank you.

no.
in your mind it is not the same, in mine it is. both are couples who desperately want children and cannot conceive on their own. just b/c one is a male/ female pairing and the other is male/male or female/female....makes no difference to me. beyond sexual orientation, it is exactly ther same issue, scenario and desire for a child for all couples involved, and i also think all said couples want very much to have a child that they can give a loving/supportive home environment. if all you can say is 'they're not the same thing'...not much there to discuss.



from a previous post on this same issue:
there is NO 'medical need' for a specific couple to undergo assisted reproduction; it is a WANT. thus, it's a want both heteros and homosexuals both may have...and imho...if it's deemed 'ok' by society to meet that need for one group, i do not see how it is right to deny another group that same right based on sexual orientation and nothing else. yes, my opinion. agree, disagree...whatever. but sure, if i ever have the chance to vote in a way to show support for such, you betcha i will. however, i do not have at it, nor get upset when someone shares their opinion...we're all free to think and say what we

harmless_little_f***

decides2dream wrote:

no.
in your mind it is not the same, in mine it is. both are couples who desperately want children and cannot conceive on their own. just b/c one is a male/ female pairing and the other is male/male or female/female....makes no difference to me. beyond sexual orientation, it is exactly ther same issue, scenario and desire for a child for all couples involved, and i also think all said couples want very much to have a child that they can give a loving/supportive home environment. if all you can say is 'they're not the same thing'...not much there to discuss.

I'd love to discuss this with you. Incidentally, the reason I state they are not the same thing is nothing - I repeat, nothing - to do with their sexual orientation.

A few pages back (actually, page 5), I posted a long thought about this issue. Feel free to respond to it. As I said, I have no qualms with any sexual orientation at all. However, I'm all for adoption when it comes to homosexual couples.

angelica

harmless_little_f*** wrote:

I'd love to discuss this with you. Incidentally, the reason I state they are not the same thing is nothing - I repeat, nothing - to do with their sexual orientation.

A few pages back (actually, page 5), I posted a long thought about this issue. Feel free to respond to it. As I said, I have no qualms with any sexual orientation at all. However, I'm all for adoption when it comes to homosexual couples.

I went back and read your post. Thanks for sharing that. You raise some very good points about the general lack of reverence in life. Including the lack of respect for life's processes and people's warped view of their "rights" and how it's distorted some of our basic ideas.

Good luck on your journey with possible adoption.

decides2dream

angelica wrote:

I went back and read your post. Thanks for sharing that. You raise some very good points about the general lack of reverence in life. Including the lack of respect for life's processes and people's warped view of their "rights" and how it's distorted some of our basic ideas.

Good luck on your journey with possible adoption.

complete agreement.

also, harmless, do please check your PMs.
that said, i do too fully agree with the whole 'business' of babies, etc...but that is as much a heterosexual making, not homosexual. that same 'business' would be there no matter what, b/c as a society we have agreed, whether one personally agrees or not, to allow for assisted reproduction.

however, i still see very much that while you say it has nothing to do with sexual orientation...and readily agree they should be allowed to adopt...i STILL fail to see why you draw this distinction, b/c i assume you still believe hetero couples deserve this right? so i am still unclear where exactly you are drawing this 'line' of who it's allowable for, and why?

for instance...for a female with a male partner with infertility problems, a VERY viable alternative is a sperm donor. as simple as choosing from donorations at the local sperm bank, getting said sperm implanted...and if the woman herself has zero fertility issues, she can get pregnant. now, this can be done with a hetero woman, or a homosexual one. IF you believe it's ok for a homosexual couple to raise children...then i still fail to see why you would grant this 'tright' to a hetero female and not a lesbian? beyond sexual orientation, where is the difference? tell me you disagree with assisted reproduction and it's a whole other story...and while my opinions may or may not differ...at least that is 'fair'..in a sense.

also - so many are getting hung up on the reproduction issues of it all. i have zero stats on this so if someone does, i'd be interested. however, first of all, i don't think there is THAT many homosexual couples looking to have children, whether thru assisted repro or adoption. of those who choose to have kids, i am guessing most go the adoption route, particularly gay men, b/c yea....they are at an inherent disadvantage in having to find a surrogate, etc. the #s for assisted repro for lesbians i would think is a bit higher, simply b/c of the scenario i listed above...it's far easier for a female to get assistance. not even getting into the whole idea of infertility in a homosexual couples..than sure, even more complicatyed...but still just as right for them to get assistance.

anyway, i guess i still just don't get it. i understand the lament for the preciousness of life and all....and it does sound like you had a bad expereince. however, if one supports the right to assisted reporduction, i simply think it is a right of all. i do not see what 'distinction' you are pointing to beyond sexual orientation. bottomline, i think the percentage of homosexuals who actually go for reproductive assistance is quite low, i would think a great many opt for adoption....and either way, for either choices..i think heterosexual couples far outnumber them. and btw - i have to fully DISagree with most couples wanting designer babies, looking to just rush in, whatever...the vast majority of people i have known who have undergone any form of assistance, are very much caring/loving people..who so just want a child of their own, like most couples who want children do. some may be successful, others may end up adoptings, others may simply choose to remain childless...but to say the vast majority of people - hetero or not - are going in without believing in the sanctity of life, is just unfair to assume at best.

mongoloid

rightondude wrote:

Put 100 gay men on an island...leave them be for 100 years then come back with your observation on how nature supports it...you'll see precious little life existing. People support homosexuality not nature. end of argument.

Put 100 straight men on an island ... leave them be for 100 years then come back. You'll see precious little life existing.

What is your point again?

decides2dream

mongoloid wrote:

Put 100 straight men on an island ... leave them be for 100 years then come back. You'll see precious little life existing.

What is your point again?

haha - exactly!
homosexulaity is no danger to the survival of humanity. as i have said many times..i personally believe it, and perhaps even infertility in some heterosexuals - is a built in 'check' of nature, to keep populations sustainable for the planet, and to offer a supportive role to other children/families...etc. one not need to reproduce to be valuable.

Ahnimus

It's all psychological, people that say emotion is a deciding factor, just can't accept responsibility for themselves. Wake up and smell the coffee.

decides2dream

Ahnimus wrote:

It's all psychological, people that say emotion is a deciding factor, just can't accept responsibility for themselves. Wake up and smell the coffee.

wow, brilliant!
even the medical profession can't agree if it's nature vs. nurture..is it genetic, or a lifestyle choice. perhaps you should inform them mand put it to rest. actually, i believe the medical community is in fact leaning more towards genetics being the culprit for homosexuality...the whole 'you are born that way'....rather than choice.

honestly, makes complete sense to me. i'ts funny really, b/c many a heterosexual will say how 'disgusting homosexuality is.....and yet, why do think someone else would 'choose' it then? to me, it's more like...you canNOT choose who you are attracted to, b/c it's inherent in your make-up. sure, you can try to fight it...especially if society deems your choice 'wrong'...but i am glad that society, slowly, is realizing how wrong that is, to ask someone to live a lie and not be true to themselves.

btw - how does ANY of this have to do with accepting responsibility for onesself? actually, i think the whole issue of this thread is people looking to take on even MORE responsibility...as in...raising a child. smell the coffee? what would that be? that there are viable alternative for childless couples, hetero and homosexual alike...and there is no reason to deny either the right to a family?

Ahnimus

decides2dream wrote:

wow, brilliant!
even the medical profession can't agree if it's nature vs. nurture..is it genetic, or a lifestyle choice. perhaps you should inform them mand put it to rest. actually, i believe the medical community is in fact leaning more towards genetics being the culprit for homosexuality...the whole 'you are born that way'....rather than choice.

honestly, makes complete sense to me. i'ts funny really, b/c many a heterosexual will say how 'disgusting homosexuality is.....and yet, why do think someone else would 'choose' it then? to me, it's more like...you canNOT choose who you are attracted to, b/c it's inherent in your make-up. sure, you can try to fight it...especially if society deems your choice 'wrong'...but i am glad that society, slowly, is realizing how wrong that is, to ask someone to live a lie and not be true to themselves.

btw - how does ANY of this have to do with accepting responsibility for onesself? actually, i think the whole issue of this thread is people looking to take on even MORE responsibility...as in...raising a child. smell the coffee? what would that be? that there are viable alternative for childless couples, hetero and homosexual alike...and there is no reason to deny either the right to a family?

Maybe I am an android and I don't know it. I don't get emotional like these kinds of people do. I don't look at a man or a woman and feel emotionally drawn to them. I see sexy legs and a slim waistline.

Science is not leaning towards genetics. That's just shit that's made up to justify it to Homosexuals. Why is it disgusting? Well it's quite obvious to me. Also consider that 62% of HIV victims are homosexual males, what does that tell you? The chance of contracting HIV through fellatio is 0.2/100,000 the chance of contracting it through anal intercourse is about 50/50

Honestly, I have to think about something for a long time in order to develope any emotions over it. I don't think about things that long that aren't worth thinking about. I just collect data and make correlations within that data. I don't give in to my every feeling or thought no matter how strong it is. People are consistently wrong and misguided. When you come to realize your on the wrong path it makes sense. But you could have figured that out before you went down that path if you had a clear mind. I don't mean meditating either, that is horseshit. Just don't act on every single thought that enters your mind as if you have no control..

If we say it's genetic or emotional and beyone our control. Then we have to admit that nothing is within our control. People can shut the hell up about everything and we will all just live and let live, because we are slaves to our emotions and genetics. There is no right and wrong by that explanation. How did rational people ever let it come this far. It's not just homosexuality, it's all kinds of vile sexual fetishes.

"Oh, I don't know, I just like eating human shit, it's part of my genetics."

give me a break, it's a psychological mind-fuck

decides2dream

well since this thread is about homosexuals and raising children, i won't even get into all that. sufgfice to say, i do not see the 'emotions' in it..i see pure genetics. just as you see sexylegs and a slim waistline...that obviously appeals to you sexually, w/o a tought, with no emotion? so wouldn't you say you are wired th=o think that, to have that response? i think the same for homosexuals...except their response is towards their own gender. doesn't seem like such a stretch to me, but it's simply my opinion on it. i honestly couldn't care less...i just had to take issue with the whole 'emotional choice' point. obviously, we completely disagree on this topic. c'est la vie.

anyway, i think homosexuals can make excellent parents, and i hope it gets easier for them to live as couples, have families, etc. i personally believe they have every right, like anyone else. sexual orientation is only one part of who you are as a person, and i do not believe it has any bearing on how good a parent one may be.


btw - the whole anal intercourse thing...seriously, is that it? there are heterosexual couples who engage in such practices...and hello, are you forgetting about lesbians? what's so horrid about them? please.

Ahnimus

decides2dream wrote:

well since this thread is about homosexuals and raising children, i won't even get into all that. sufgfice to say, i do not see the 'emotions' in it..i see pure genetics. just as you see sexylegs and a slim waistline...that obviously appeals to you sexually, w/o a tought, with no emotion? so wouldn't you say you are wired th=o think that, to have that response? i think the same for homosexuals...except their response is towards their own gender. doesn't seem like such a stretch to me, but it's simply my opinion on it. i honestly couldn't care less...i just had to take issue with the whole 'emotional choice' point. obviously, we completely disagree on this topic. c'est la vie.

anyway, i think homosexuals can make excellent parents, and i hope it gets easier for them to live as couples, have families, etc. i personally believe they have every right, like anyone else. sexual orientation is only one part of who you are as a person, and i do not believe it has any bearing on how good a parent one may be.

In Jamaica they like massive women, the bigger the better. It's a learned attraction based on society. Things like television and movies and what you are told is sexy. It's not genetic, it's psychological. Take a Jamaican boy and raise him in the US of A and he'll like slim women with big breasts.

Of course it being psychological doesn't help you in your desire to be homosexual, so you will walk around the truth and ignore the evidence that doesn't agree with you.

decides2dream

Ahnimus wrote:

In Jamaica they like massive women, the bigger the better. It's a learned attraction based on society. Things like television and movies and what you are told is sexy. It's not genetic, it's psychological. Take a Jamaican boy and raise him in the US of A and he'll like slim women with big breasts.

Of course it being psychological doesn't help you in your desire to be homosexual, so you will walk around the truth and ignore the evidence that doesn't agree with you.

haha...now we're getting in preferences. while sure, i will agree there exists cultural preferences, there are people who have other preferences that don't 'fit' what the culture dictates. hmmm....are you i'mnothingnew...ISIS...grape...et all? b/c this is an old, old topic. anyway.....i have simply agreed to disagree with you. it is VERY clear to me that you and i will not see at all eye to eye on the homosexual issue, and i honestly do not care if we do or not. so then, i am done discussing with you since we have nothing to actually 'discuss'...i'll wait for other responses/points of view...that may interest me. i do not believe it to be psychological, you do...there it is. have a good evening.

Ahnimus

decides2dream wrote:

haha...now we're getting in preferences. while sure, i will agree there exists cultural preferences, there are people who have other preferences that don't 'fit' what the culture dictates. hmmm....are you i'mnothingnew...ISIS...grape...et all? b/c this is an old, old topic. anyway.....i have simply agreed to disagree with you. it is VERY clear to me that you and i will not see at all eye to eye on the homosexual issue, and i honestly do not care if we do or not. so then, i am done discussing with you since we have nothing to actually 'discuss'...i'll wait for other responses/points of view...that may interest me. i do not believe it to be psychological, you do...there it is. have a good evening.

That is explained by cognitive dissonance as someone mentioned before.

wahine

Meatwagon wrote:

Well to get back to the original thread, we have families that face a delima. They are not following the rules of nature, but of present day society. Adoption, artificial insemination, or just having some one "plant" their seed. What path do these families take in the long run?? Mother nature is going to have the final say. This is a lifestyle that can survive and prosper in the short term, but has no real future. No matter how much love and guidance you provide for these young families, it just cannot survive....
But they are going to have to see the truth that is right in front of them. They come from an unconventional family and way of life that really has no future. It can be carried on within certain communities, but when that support dries up and the homosexuality trend shifts, what happens. Nature is not on their side.

Pardon me, but have you told this to the (hold onto your socks now) families that have survived. Not only survived, but survived and prospered! Do you really think that this has never happened?

ok, now all of you, when you meet a child, a "product" of a family that has homosexual parents...can you tell that they are different? What will you say to them?!?!? The HORROR! They might be teaching your children or acting as your primary care doctor. What will you do?
I know, lets mark them all, so we know who they are, and then....
Does any of this sound familiar?


Just so you know, incase it hasn't come to you yet, there are many families surviving right now, and moving on, with homosexual parents. Just thought you should know.

Peace

jeffbr

I don't see what any of the nature/nurture tangent has to do with the original question in this thread. I believe it is nature. Some of you believe it is nurture. Perhaps it is a combination. There is no science that unequivocally supports either argument, and plenty of science to back up either as a possibility. So put that goddam argument aside. It is irrelevant to the original question.

soulsinging

decides2dream wrote:

btw - the whole anal intercourse thing...seriously, is that it? there are heterosexual couples who engage in such practices...and hello, are you forgetting about lesbians? what's so horrid about them? please.

you know, you and i ahve asked this one several times to several different people and not one of them has been able to give an answer. theoretically if (as someone claimed) the only non-gross way to have sex is the natural vaginal intercourse route, then both oral and anal sex should be considered weird and deviant. id like one of these people to own up and tell whether or not they believe this to actually be the case or if they're just searching for justifications for their illogical and emotional disgust with homos.

rightondude

Ahnimus wrote:

It's not just homosexuality, it's all kinds of vile sexual fetishes.

"Oh, I don't know, I just like eating human shit, it's part of my genetics."

give me a break, it's a psychological mind-fuck

I'm a firm believer that every single thing we think, and do, we do because we desire it.

Some are more/less aware of their cognitive desires and abilities and how they are interconnected. Everyone is addicted to something in one way or another. Some are hopelessly addicted to smoking, drugs, or alcohol, while some can use reason to delay the next cigarette, or "fix", or even choose to quit cold turkey altogether. Depends how someone can identify with their cognitive thought patterns, and play in reasoning, consequence, and a whole other range of emotions, and life experiences to form an eventual course of action. Those who can't achieve this level of cognitive acuity....just can't....or they *can* but don't desire it. They get angry, confused, scared, or feel indifferent so they just do not think effectively in this manner.

Some guys like to jump inside another guys butt and mine for nuggets, others see this as somewhat undesirable, and can connect a line of reasoning to it. Some people eat fast food, and watch tv and get sick, while others eat a healthy diet and excersise for the same reasons. Both choose whatever course of action they do because they desire it. Some have no control over their desires though, as they have not connected as fully with the cognitive self. A portion of this is how many cards we are dealt with at birth, and in life, and what those cards are.