have you ever been the victim of rape? short of murder and torture, it is the most heinous crime that can be perpetrated against another person, man or woman. it is a crime of absolute power against a victim weaker than the rapist. sure some women are strong enough to give birth and even raise the child of their rapist. but there are others who have enough trouble dealing with what happened to them, let alone the added 'bonus' of a constant reminder of the violence they've been subjected to.
yes cate; i'm a victim of rape. i know exactly what it's like. and now i wonder why i was taught never to hit women when violence would have stopped the attack.
but there's a long waiting line for those who want to adopt. and let's not forget we'll keep murderers alive in prison at $80,000 to $100,000 each per year because executing them is wrong. but for some reason it's ok to execute an innocent child.
if killing is wrong in war; if killing is wrong for those who cannot live in society without killing others; then please explain why killing an innocent child is right? i must be missing the plot on this one.
Jeanne, don't be coy. You stated "daddy didn't love me". Your words not mine. You are quick to judge a man for walking out on a child he doesn't want, but refuse to see the vulgarity of a woman who kills a child she doesn't want. After all, by your reasoning, the man walked out on a fetus...he never knew the "child".
Show me where I stated that? I don't think I used the words "daddy didn't love me" anywhere. Do we have a reading comprehension problem?
And do you think you could bother to spell my name right while you're at it?
Show me where I stated that? I don't think I used the words "daddy didn't love me" anywhere. Do we have a reading comprehension problem?
And do you think you could bother to spell my name right while you're at it?
i think someone else said that. i do remember reading it somewhere a few pages back. i don't think it was you love.
he does make a good point though. a father goes to jail for walking out on a child he doesn't want but it's ok for a woman to kill a child SHE doesn't want. to top that off; the man has NO SAY WHAT SO EVER if he wants the child. the woman alone is given the power of life or death over the child. so sad.
i think someone else said that. i do remember reading it somewhere a few pages back. i don't think it was you love.
he does make a good point though. a father goes to jail for walking out on a child he doesn't want but it's ok for a woman to kill a child SHE doesn't want. to top that off; the man has NO SAY WHAT SO EVER if he wants the child. the woman alone is given the power of life or death over the child. so sad.
Well I've said that I don't think men should go to jail for being a dead beat dad. And not all women that have the "power" of life or death over the foetus exercise that right without attempting to find out and include the father's wishes in that decision. You're right it is sad, but what does it matter anyway?
Since this is a medical issue, let's define some medical terms.
Child
a young person especially between infancy and youth
Infant
a child in the first year of life
Fetus
an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind
Embryo
an animal in the early stages of growth and differentiation that are characterized by cleavage, the laying down of fundamental tissues, and the formation of primitive organs and organ systems; especially : the developing human individual from the time of implantation to the end of the eighth week after conception
Blastula
an early metazoan embryo typically having the form of a hollow fluid-filled rounded cavity bounded by a single layer of cells
So what is being killed. Probably an embryo. Let's use correct terms and not conflagrate the issue by using emotionally charged terms.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Well I've said that I don't think men should go to jail for being a dead beat dad. And not all women that have the "power" of life or death over the foetus exercise that right without attempting to find out and include the father's wishes in that decision. You're right it is sad, but what does it matter anyway?
it doesn't. we're all murderers. most of us won't admitt it. every time you start a car you're spewing deadly chemicals into the lungs of young children. when you feed them processed foods you're slowly poisoning them and setting them up for cancer. so we're all murderers; some just do it the legal way.
it doesn't. we're all murderers. most of us won't admitt it. every time you start a car you're spewing deadly chemicals into the lungs of young children. when you feed them processed foods you're slowly poisoning them and setting them up for cancer. so we're all murderers; some just do it the legal way.
I agree. I'm quite sure my complacency alone has contributed to the deaths of others.
But I meant what does this thread, this topic, matter in the general scheme of things we find ourselves in today? It means nothing.
Since this is a medical issue, let's define some medical terms.
Child
a young person especially between infancy and youth
Infant
a child in the first year of life
Fetus
an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind
Embryo
an animal in the early stages of growth and differentiation that are characterized by cleavage, the laying down of fundamental tissues, and the formation of primitive organs and organ systems; especially : the developing human individual from the time of implantation to the end of the eighth week after conception
Blastula
an early metazoan embryo typically having the form of a hollow fluid-filled rounded cavity bounded by a single layer of cells
So what is being killed. Probably an embryo. Let's use correct terms and not conflagrate the issue by using emotionally charged terms.
i can justify anything by splitting hairs. if the embryo will eventually grow into a human being; you're ending a human life in developement no matter what labels you put on it.
i can justify anything by splitting hairs. if the embryo will eventually grow into a human being; you're ending a human life in developement no matter what labels you put on it.
And what is a human?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Humans, or human beings, are bipedal primates belonging to the mammalian species Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man") in the family Hominidae (the great apes).[1][2] Humans have a highly developed brain capable of abstract reasoning, language, and introspection. This mental capability, combined with an erect body carriage that frees their upper limbs for manipulating objects, has allowed humans to make far greater use of tools than any other species. Humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, but they now inhabit every continent, with a total population of over 6.6 billion as of 2007.[3]
Like most primates, humans are social by nature; however, humans are particularly adept at utilizing systems of communication for self-expression, the exchange of ideas, and organization. Humans create complex social structures composed of cooperating and competing groups, ranging in scale from small families and partnerships to species-wide political, scientific and economic unions. Social interactions between humans have also established an extremely wide variety of traditions, rituals, ethics, values, social norms, and laws which form the basis of human society. Humans also have a marked appreciation for beauty and aesthetics which, combined with the human desire for self-expression, has led to cultural innovations such as art, literature and music.
Humans are also noted for their desire to understand and influence the world around them, seeking to explain and manipulate natural phenomena through science, philosophy, mythology and religion. This natural curiosity has led to the development of advanced tools and skills; humans are the only known species to build fires, cook their food, clothe themselves, and use numerous other technologies.
Humans, or human beings, are bipedal primates belonging to the mammalian species Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man") in the family Hominidae (the great apes).[1][2] Humans have a highly developed brain capable of abstract reasoning, language, and introspection. This mental capability, combined with an erect body carriage that frees their upper limbs for manipulating objects, has allowed humans to make far greater use of tools than any other species. Humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, but they now inhabit every continent, with a total population of over 6.6 billion as of 2007.[3]
Like most primates, humans are social by nature; however, humans are particularly adept at utilizing systems of communication for self-expression, the exchange of ideas, and organization. Humans create complex social structures composed of cooperating and competing groups, ranging in scale from small families and partnerships to species-wide political, scientific and economic unions. Social interactions between humans have also established an extremely wide variety of traditions, rituals, ethics, values, social norms, and laws which form the basis of human society. Humans also have a marked appreciation for beauty and aesthetics which, combined with the human desire for self-expression, has led to cultural innovations such as art, literature and music.
Humans are also noted for their desire to understand and influence the world around them, seeking to explain and manipulate natural phenomena through science, philosophy, mythology and religion. This natural curiosity has led to the development of advanced tools and skills; humans are the only known species to build fires, cook their food, clothe themselves, and use numerous other technologies.
Yea, self-awareness is what I was looking for. It's ok to squish a bug or eat an egg, because neither appear to be self-aware. Well neither is an embryo in the first trimester.
The potential for an ant to evolve over the next 500 billion years into a self-aware entity is there, so don't kill any ants because you might interrupt their evolution.
Anyway, fundamentally humans are just animate matter that has a degree of self-awareness and autonomy. Anything really special about that? No. Many of the higher primates are similar to us in form and mental capacity. We don't flip out when they murder each other.
An embryo is not a human. Not even close.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yea, self-awareness is what I was looking for. It's ok to squish a bug or eat an egg, because neither appear to be self-aware. Well neither is an embryo in the first trimester.
The potential for an ant to evolve over the next 500 billion years into a self-aware entity is there, so don't kill any ants because you might interrupt their evolution.
Anyway, fundamentally humans are just animate matter that has a degree of self-awareness and autonomy. Anything really special about that? No. Many of the higher primates are similar to us in form and mental capacity. We don't flip out when they murder each other.
An embryo is not a human. Not even close.
so by your deffinition; you're not a human when you're sleeping or in a coma.
studies have shown awareness in the womb but if you want to dance around the tree with this feel free. if you cause a woman to miscarry in the first trimester you're being charged with murder. see the laci peterson law. only the woman can decide whether to execute the child.
so by your deffinition; you're not a human when you're sleeping or in a coma.
studies have shown awareness in the womb but if you want to dance around the tree with this feel free. if you cause a woman to miscarry in the first trimester you're being charged with murder. see the laci peterson law. only the woman can decide whether to execute the child.
Does this law apply in Canada?
Studies have shown awareness in the third trimester, not the first.
Embryo's and fetuses are not autonomous, they aren't even viable until the third trimester. Which is why my personal opinion is that I will not have an abortion in the third trimester.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Studies have shown awareness in the third trimester, not the first.
Embryo's and fetuses are not autonomous, they aren't even viable until the third trimester. Which is why my personal opinion is that I will not have an abortion in the third trimester.
studies have shown awareness in plants and in 1 criminal case; plants were the witness. i had a service dog that predicted seizures and heart attacks. that shows a level of awareness.
i'm done here so argue with yourself. whenever i talk to you i wish abortion was retroactive.
if killing is wrong in war; if killing is wrong for those who cannot live in society without killing others; then please explain why killing an innocent child is right? i must be missing the plot on this one.
killing an innocent child is wrong. but an embryo is not a child. it only has the potential to become one. so yes, you are missing the point on this one.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
No, actually my cousin was. I witnessed her unconditional love for her child....who by no fault of his own was brought into this world under less than desirable circumstances. He is a bright, beautiful human being. She is one of the most amazing women I have ever known. Furthermore, she doesn't consider him a reminder of her rape. She views him as precious because he is living. He is her child. The rapist merely donated a sperm.
i give your cousin much respect for being able to deal with her trauma the way she has. but we are not all the same. we do not have the same strengths just as we don't have the same weaknesses. we are all individuals and thus should be treated as such. we can not lay down generalisations when it comes to things such as the psychology of people. what one is able to handle is not necessarily the same as what another is able to handle.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
studies have shown awareness in plants and in 1 criminal case; plants were the witness. i had a service dog that predicted seizures and heart attacks. that shows a level of awareness.
i'm done here so argue with yourself. whenever i talk to you i wish abortion was retroactive.
What studies?
I hope they have more verifiability than the other stuff you posted to me.
Plants are self-aware? I doubt they are aware of anything at all. Are you sure it wasn't a disney movie?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
jeanie jeanie jeanie, is that a youtube link i see? :(
Little Shop of Horrors
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
At some point I know I'd wanna know who my Daddy was and why he didn't love me. And quite frankly if Mummy's answer was gonna be "some asshole raped me when I was a girl but I couldn't bring myself to abort you" then I know I truly would wish she had.
Here ya go JEANIE (sorry for the typo, I'm sure someone as advanced as you NEVER does that so I can imagine why it was such a source of irritation to your supreme intellect) this is the quote in which you referred to a father who makes the choice not to have a child as someone who doesn't love them. In contradiction to a woman who makes the choice not to have a child and aborts.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Well I've said that I don't think men should go to jail for being a dead beat dad. And not all women that have the "power" of life or death over the foetus exercise that right without attempting to find out and include the father's wishes in that decision. You're right it is sad, but what does it matter anyway?
OH MY!!! A typo! It's FETUS not foetus.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
so by your deffinition; you're not a human when you're sleeping or in a coma.
studies have shown awareness in the womb but if you want to dance around the tree with this feel free. if you cause a woman to miscarry in the first trimester you're being charged with murder. see the laci peterson law. only the woman can decide whether to execute the child.
LOL! Love it! Could we include inebriated or stoned to the list of his definition? People in those conditions are generally not aware of whats going on either!
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
yes cate; i'm a victim of rape. i know exactly what it's like. and now i wonder why i was taught never to hit women when violence would have stopped the attack.
but there's a long waiting line for those who want to adopt. and let's not forget we'll keep murderers alive in prison at $80,000 to $100,000 each per year because executing them is wrong. but for some reason it's ok to execute an innocent child.
if killing is wrong in war; if killing is wrong for those who cannot live in society without killing others; then please explain why killing an innocent child is right? i must be missing the plot on this one.
Show me where I stated that? I don't think I used the words "daddy didn't love me" anywhere. Do we have a reading comprehension problem?
And do you think you could bother to spell my name right while you're at it?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i think someone else said that. i do remember reading it somewhere a few pages back. i don't think it was you love.
he does make a good point though. a father goes to jail for walking out on a child he doesn't want but it's ok for a woman to kill a child SHE doesn't want. to top that off; the man has NO SAY WHAT SO EVER if he wants the child. the woman alone is given the power of life or death over the child. so sad.
Well I've said that I don't think men should go to jail for being a dead beat dad. And not all women that have the "power" of life or death over the foetus exercise that right without attempting to find out and include the father's wishes in that decision. You're right it is sad, but what does it matter anyway?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Since this is a medical issue, let's define some medical terms.
Child
a young person especially between infancy and youth
Infant
a child in the first year of life
Fetus
an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind
Embryo
an animal in the early stages of growth and differentiation that are characterized by cleavage, the laying down of fundamental tissues, and the formation of primitive organs and organ systems; especially : the developing human individual from the time of implantation to the end of the eighth week after conception
Blastula
an early metazoan embryo typically having the form of a hollow fluid-filled rounded cavity bounded by a single layer of cells
So what is being killed. Probably an embryo. Let's use correct terms and not conflagrate the issue by using emotionally charged terms.
it doesn't. we're all murderers. most of us won't admitt it. every time you start a car you're spewing deadly chemicals into the lungs of young children. when you feed them processed foods you're slowly poisoning them and setting them up for cancer. so we're all murderers; some just do it the legal way.
I agree. I'm quite sure my complacency alone has contributed to the deaths of others.
But I meant what does this thread, this topic, matter in the general scheme of things we find ourselves in today? It means nothing.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i can justify anything by splitting hairs. if the embryo will eventually grow into a human being; you're ending a human life in developement no matter what labels you put on it.
And what is a human?
Humans, or human beings, are bipedal primates belonging to the mammalian species Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man") in the family Hominidae (the great apes).[1][2] Humans have a highly developed brain capable of abstract reasoning, language, and introspection. This mental capability, combined with an erect body carriage that frees their upper limbs for manipulating objects, has allowed humans to make far greater use of tools than any other species. Humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, but they now inhabit every continent, with a total population of over 6.6 billion as of 2007.[3]
Like most primates, humans are social by nature; however, humans are particularly adept at utilizing systems of communication for self-expression, the exchange of ideas, and organization. Humans create complex social structures composed of cooperating and competing groups, ranging in scale from small families and partnerships to species-wide political, scientific and economic unions. Social interactions between humans have also established an extremely wide variety of traditions, rituals, ethics, values, social norms, and laws which form the basis of human society. Humans also have a marked appreciation for beauty and aesthetics which, combined with the human desire for self-expression, has led to cultural innovations such as art, literature and music.
Humans are also noted for their desire to understand and influence the world around them, seeking to explain and manipulate natural phenomena through science, philosophy, mythology and religion. This natural curiosity has led to the development of advanced tools and skills; humans are the only known species to build fires, cook their food, clothe themselves, and use numerous other technologies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
Yea, self-awareness is what I was looking for. It's ok to squish a bug or eat an egg, because neither appear to be self-aware. Well neither is an embryo in the first trimester.
The potential for an ant to evolve over the next 500 billion years into a self-aware entity is there, so don't kill any ants because you might interrupt their evolution.
Anyway, fundamentally humans are just animate matter that has a degree of self-awareness and autonomy. Anything really special about that? No. Many of the higher primates are similar to us in form and mental capacity. We don't flip out when they murder each other.
An embryo is not a human. Not even close.
so by your deffinition; you're not a human when you're sleeping or in a coma.
studies have shown awareness in the womb but if you want to dance around the tree with this feel free. if you cause a woman to miscarry in the first trimester you're being charged with murder. see the laci peterson law. only the woman can decide whether to execute the child.
Does this law apply in Canada?
Studies have shown awareness in the third trimester, not the first.
Embryo's and fetuses are not autonomous, they aren't even viable until the third trimester. Which is why my personal opinion is that I will not have an abortion in the third trimester.
studies have shown awareness in plants and in 1 criminal case; plants were the witness. i had a service dog that predicted seizures and heart attacks. that shows a level of awareness.
i'm done here so argue with yourself. whenever i talk to you i wish abortion was retroactive.
killing an innocent child is wrong. but an embryo is not a child. it only has the potential to become one. so yes, you are missing the point on this one.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i give your cousin much respect for being able to deal with her trauma the way she has. but we are not all the same. we do not have the same strengths just as we don't have the same weaknesses. we are all individuals and thus should be treated as such. we can not lay down generalisations when it comes to things such as the psychology of people. what one is able to handle is not necessarily the same as what another is able to handle.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
What studies?
I hope they have more verifiability than the other stuff you posted to me.
Plants are self-aware? I doubt they are aware of anything at all. Are you sure it wasn't a disney movie?
only if there was singing involved.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
World's Greatest singing plant!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGRN39oifsE
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
jeanie jeanie jeanie, is that a youtube link i see? :(
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Little Shop of Horrors
Sorry cate forgot.:o It's Rick Moranis and Audrey II singing Feed Me from Little Shop of Horrors.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
ta ryan.
so tis audrey. i was thinking the flowers in wonderland.
FEED ME SEYMOUR!!!!!
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On3mrKW-Nk0
Here ya go JEANIE (sorry for the typo, I'm sure someone as advanced as you NEVER does that so I can imagine why it was such a source of irritation to your supreme intellect) this is the quote in which you referred to a father who makes the choice not to have a child as someone who doesn't love them. In contradiction to a woman who makes the choice not to have a child and aborts.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
OH MY!!! A typo! It's FETUS not foetus.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
I'd have thought that anyone who had spent so much time reading the Australia/NewZealand Journal of Medicine would have known that.
LOL! Love it! Could we include inebriated or stoned to the list of his definition? People in those conditions are generally not aware of whats going on either!
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
Actually it's both.
http://m-w.com/medical/foetus