Bullshit! Why don't you do a little research about what went on before medically provided abortions were available?
Or better yet have a little look at what they do in Africa?
But you just keep rewriting history! :rolleyes:
Bullshit!
There were far fewer actual legal and illegal abortion procedures before 1972, when abortion was legalized in America. Abortion procedures actually grew in number after that. That's funny! Legalize it and then people will do it! Wow!
Abortion was stigmatized before the 70s and people wouldn't do it because of that. Unwanted pregnancies were carried to term because people who had sex would have accountability for it. Now they kill the child.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
There were far fewer actual abortion procedures before 1972, when abortion was legalized in America. Abortion procedures actually grew in number after that. That's funny! Legalize it and then people will do it! Wow!
Abortion was stigmatized before the 70s and people wouldn't do it because of that. Unwanted pregnancies were carried to term because people who had sex would have accountability for it. Now they kill the child.
I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I'm glad neither of my kids wanted to go to the College of William and Mary. I'd refuse to pay for it, because it's obvious that you don't learn shit about history there.
Yes the history department DEFINITELY sucks and it's FULL OF LIBERALS. Haha, we also have a shitfuck Women's Studies department. The dumbasses who run that department are all pro-choice.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Yes the history department DEFINITELY sucks and it's FULL OF LIBERALS. Haha, we also have a shitfuck Women's Studies department. The dumbasses who run that department are all pro-choice.
Wow.
Just wow.
Abortion is less prevelant now than at any other point in history, legal or illegal.
Yes the history department DEFINITELY sucks and it's FULL OF LIBERALS. Haha, we also have a shitfuck Women's Studies department. The dumbasses who run that department are all pro-choice.
Ok, all you smart people out there! Make sure you don't wind up at the wrong college with CorporateWhore!
OK here's an intellectual spin. Why don't those of you who support abortion, talk to women involved in groups like PASS, Safehaven, Exhale or Planned Parenthood to see just how significant having an abortion is.
Research from these groups (who are often Pro-Choice) shows that the majority of women who choose abortion never do it twice. The guilt, shame and regret they suffer for the rest of their lives is inmeasurable. Post traumatic support groups are everywhere.
The majority of people who fight for abortion rights are doctors, nurses, politicians and women who have never experienced one. That in itself speaks volumes.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
OK here's an intellectual spin. Why don't those of you who support abortion, talk to women involved in groups like PASS, Safehaven, Exhale or Planned Parenthood to see just how significant having an abortion is.
Research from these groups (who are often Pro-Choice) shows that the majority of women who choose abortion never do it twice. The guilt, shame and regret they suffer for the rest of their lives is inmeasurable. Post traumatic support groups are everywhere.
The majority of people who fight for abortion rights are doctors, nurses, politicians and women who have never experienced one. That in itself speaks volumes.
Guess it depends on how you interpret the information doesn't it Juberoo?
Because I disagree with what you're saying here and in my reading and experience in the women's health field I would say that this is not the case.
But then again you are in America. So perhaps things are different here?
OK here's an intellectual spin. Why don't those of you who support abortion, talk to women involved in groups like PASS, Safehaven, Exhale or Planned Parenthood to see just how significant having an abortion is.
Research from these groups (who are often Pro-Choice) shows that the majority of women who choose abortion never do it twice. The guilt, shame and regret they suffer for the rest of their lives is inmeasurable. Post traumatic support groups are everywhere.
The majority of people who fight for abortion rights are doctors, nurses, politicians and women who have never experienced one. That in itself speaks volumes.
There's also an article that SuzannePjam posted a while back that said about half of the women who have an abortion in the U.S. have had at least one abortion previously.
If you're going to argue this, you're going to have to get your facts straight.
And yes, I've had one. No, it wasn't the most fun I've ever had, I'll grant you that, but it's far from the worst thing I've been through. Obviously, if I suffered from guilt and shame I wouldn't be posting this on a message board.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
wow...i cant believe that this conversation is still going on. i would hate for some religious folks to impose their beliefs on me... not everyone is a christian...not everyone participates in religion- it is a cultural institution, which some avoid. the idea that the christian idea of morality is the "truth" blows my mind, especially since that definition is so black and white... the world is too complicated and full of circumstances to say that abortion is immoral.
and the notion that you would put a woman in jail for such things is ridiculous... WHAT ABOUT THE PROVIDER OF THE SEED... doesnt seem like he was being too responsible either, and his involvement is clear. throw him in jail while you're at it then please.
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wow...i cant believe that this conversation is still going on. i would hate for some religious folks to impose their beliefs on me... not everyone is a christian...not everyone participates in religion- it is a cultural institution, which some avoid. the idea that the christian idea of morality is the "truth" blows my mind, especially since that definition is so black and white... the world is too complicated and full of circumstances to say that abortion is immoral.
That's a very important point. Not all Pro-Lifers are religious. There are plenty of reasons against abortion that have nothing to do with christianity.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
There's also an article that SuzannePjam posted a while back that said about half of the women who have an abortion in the U.S. have had at least one abortion previously.
If you're going to argue this, you're going to have to get your facts straight.
And yes, I've had one. No, it wasn't the most fun I've ever had, I'll grant you that, but it's far from the worst thing I've been through. Obviously, if I suffered from guilt and shame I wouldn't be posting this on a message board.
Hippiemom one solitary article does not equate fact. Again, do some research. That way you will be able to take your own advice....get your facts straight.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Hippiemom one solitary article does not equate fact. Again, do some research. That way you will be able to take your own advice....get your facts straight.
And you're getting your info from? A solitary article. Get your intellect straight.
And you're getting your info from? A solitary article. Get your intellect straight.
Ummm no...I listed several organizations involved in this issue. Re-read...maybe read slower...it would help you to understand what is actually being said. Here are a few more to research for yourself. Abortion Conservation Project, Backline, Aus/New Zealand JM, Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, need more???
Furthermore, this problem is so prevalent that many among the psychiatric community tag this as a subtext of PTSD. It is anticipated that the DSM will adjust its next edition accordingly. (It has been non commital in the past first adding it then removing it....it's reasoning being that of civil liberties infringement)
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Hippiemom one solitary article does not equate fact. Again, do some research. That way you will be able to take your own advice....get your facts straight.
Did you READ the article? It cites numerous scientific studies, including the research done by Surgeon General Koop, a diehard pro-lifer. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to refer me to the studies that show the great suffering among women who have had abortions.
Given that approximately one in three American women has an abortion, if any significant percentage of them were traumatized by it, it would be a genuine public health crisis ... and yet, strangely enough, there doesn't seem to be one. Hmmmmm ......
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Ummm no...I listed several organizations involved in this issue. Re-read...maybe read slower...it would help you to understand what is actually being said. Here are a few more to research for yourself. Abortion Conservation Project, Backline, Aus/New Zealand JM, Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, need more???
Furthermore, this problem is so prevalent that many among the psychiatric community tag this as a subtext of PTSD. It is anticipated that the DSM will adjust its next edition accordingly. (It has been non commital in the past first adding it then removing it....it's reasoning being that of civil liberties infringement)
Some of the hardest chargers against abortion are those that have had an abortion. They've been told by their mates that they are murderers, they've been subjected to the scrutiny of law and imprisonment in this country, and they are constantly the subject of an ongoing constitutional debate.
Is it any wonder that there is going to be psychological fallout? And even further, is it any wonder that the jackals that prey on such fallout are going to arrive at such derisive conclusions as to say that, essentially, "women that have abortions are fucked up."?
Fuck you.
You picked on a friend of mine.
Hippiemom has two beautiful, intelligent, incredible daughters that are far and away greater than anything that you and your thinking will ever produce.
Did you READ the article? It cites numerous scientific studies, including the research done by Surgeon General Koop, a diehard pro-lifer. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to refer me to the studies that show the great suffering among women who have had abortions.
Given that approximately one in three American women has an abortion, if any significant percentage of them were traumatized by it, it would be a genuine public health crisis ... and yet, strangely enough, there doesn't seem to be one. Hmmmmm ......
First of all the article you mention is based on information from the 80's and 90's. Quite outdated already. Furthermore, SG Koop was grossly misquoted by the media as you will see in the attached letter he wrote to the DHS in 1989. In said letter he states again that he felt the groups surveyed were lacking proper controls. So therefore would not base any conclusions on the data. He also goes on to support the medical opinion that addressing the need for abortion was of much more importance than the abortion issue itself. IE: Education. http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/QQ/B/B/Q/Z/_/qqbbqz.pdf
Try again.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Generally in order for a woman to obtain an abortion here she has to indicate that she is suffering mental hardship in some way in order to procure one. That wouldn't sway the stats in any way would it? :rolleyes:
Not to mention that Tony Abbott the "Health" Minister has now deemed it appropriate to provide an "abortion counselling" hotline which is tied in with the Catholic church. No bias there I'm sure!
And before everybody gets back on their moral high horse, how bout some counselling for the blokes? About how not to get a girl pregnant. I mean if I wanted to start making sweeping generalizations akin to some that I have seen here, seems to me that there are plenty of blokes out there who have had more than one girlfriend have an abortion. Why not spend a little time therapizing them? And while we're at it, seeing as this is about jail sentences for abortion, in my opinion if you contributed to the conception then you are just as guilty when abortion time comes rolling in, so lets lock the fellas up too. I'm sure it's all going to make such a difference to the actual numbers of abortions. :rolleyes:
I mean heaven forbid we were talking about immaculate conception here!
Generally in order for a woman to obtain an abortion here she has to indicate that she is suffering mental hardship in some way in order to procure one. That wouldn't sway the stats in any way would it? :rolleyes:
Not to mention that Tony Abbott the "Health" Minister has now deemed it appropriate to provide an "abortion counselling" hotline which is tied in with the Catholic church. No bias there I'm sure!
And before everybody gets back on their moral high horse, how bout some counselling for the blokes? About how not to get a girl pregnant. I mean if I wanted to start making sweeping generalizations akin to some that I have seen here, seems to me that there are plenty of blokes out there who have had more than one girlfriend have an abortion. Why not spend a little time therapizing them? And while we're at it, seeing as this is about jail sentences for abortion, in my opinion if you contributed to the conception then you are just as guilty when abortion time comes rolling in, so lets lock the fellas up too. I'm sure it's all going to make such a difference to the actual numbers of abortions. :rolleyes:
I mean heaven forbid we were talking about immaculate conception here!
Jeane I totally get what you are saying. I agree, if the male counterpart was agreeable or participated in the decision to abort, he should be held accountable as well. The problem here is, first how do you prove that? Second, we as a gender have fought so hard for the right to deny the men any involvement in the decision, that we have stabbed ourselves in the foot so to speak. Our bodies, our choice...remember?
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
...exactly why they are the ones who deserve to be listened to.
I take offense that you generalize psychiatric statistics in the name of the "common good". Then, pass it off as "knowledge" in a reply to someone you know nothing about.
In the instance that a pro-lifer is shouted down and muted out of relating her PSTD to the minions, then, maybe we can agree.
That is an issue of freedom of speech, though. Not abortion.
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry: http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/searchres.asp
Finally! Yes indeed, there may be something there, but I'll never know because I'd have to pay to read any of it.
Keep 'em coming, that was very useful :rolleyes:
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Jeane I totally get what you are saying. I agree, if the male counterpart was agreeable or participated in the decision to abort, he should be held accountable as well. The problem here is, first how do you prove that? Second, we as a gender have fought so hard for the right to deny the men any involvement in the decision, that we have stabbed ourselves in the foot so to speak. Our bodies, our choice...remember?
DNA? Surely the products of conception could be tested? Supposing it came to that. Why if it's good enough to start contemplating jail terms for women who have aborted is it not also good enough for the man named as the father to have to prove that he isn't? Prove that he isn't also guilty and requiring a jail term? And I don't think it's enough to say that if he participated in the decision to abort that he should be held accountable. Men know that if they have sex without a condom that it's reasonable to assume that a pregnancy could be the end result and that if they do not want children then they have a responsiblity to ensure that they do not allow that to happen. They are also well aware that it is a woman's body and a woman's right to choose so bearing that in mind, I don't see how going in without a condom makes you any less culpable. If people are not going to discuss potential pregnancy and outcomes before they have sex, and they're not going to do that, then they each have to take responsiblity for their actions. Just because the pregnancy doesn't occur in the man's body doesn't mean that he is absolved of all responsibility once conception occurs. And if he doesn't agree with abortion then I think that's something he needs to discuss with the woman before they get naked. Ultimately it is her body and her choice but this is not new information. So for every woman out there today procuring an abortion there is a man, who participated and who knew the law as it stands. And I don't necessarily agree that women have fought hard to deny men any involvement in the decision. As I said it's not like we aren't all well aware of the law as it stands. For all the women that I know that have had one I would have to say a greater many of them have been hung out to dry and left the minute pregnancy became a reality. What I'd like stats on is how many women out there would have continued with the pregnancy if the father of the child had showed any inclination to support the pregnancy and the subsequent child. And just how many men are there that actually do want their child and are denied by the woman? These are stats I'd like to see. I can quite imagine how they'd go here.
Oh and I'm not "bashing" men here. Just in case any of the fellas think I am.
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry: http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/searchres.asp
Finally! Yes indeed, there may be something there, but I'll never know because I'd have to pay to read any of it.
DNA? Surely the products of conception could be tested? Supposing it came to that. Why if it's good enough to start contemplating jail terms for women who have aborted is it not also good enough for the man named as the father to have to prove that he isn't? Prove that he isn't also guilty and requiring a jail term? And I don't think it's enough to say that if he participated in the decision to abort that he should be held accountable. Men know that if they have sex without a condom that it's reasonable to assume that a pregnancy could be the end result and that if they do not want children then they have a responsiblity to ensure that they do not allow that to happen. They are also well aware that it is a woman's body and a woman's right to choose so bearing that in mind, I don't see how going in without a condom makes you any less culpable. If people are not going to discuss potential pregnancy and outcomes before they have sex, and they're not going to do that, then they each have to take responsiblity for their actions. Just because the pregnancy doesn't occur in the man's body doesn't mean that he is absolved of all responsibility once conception occurs. And if he doesn't agree with abortion then I think that's something he needs to discuss with the woman before they get naked. Ultimately it is her body and her choice but this is not new information. So for every woman out there today procuring an abortion there is a man, who participated and who knew the law as it stands. And I don't necessarily agree that women have fought hard to deny men any involvement in the decision. As I said it's not like we aren't all well aware of the law as it stands. For all the women that I know that have had one I would have to say a greater many of them have been hung out to dry and left the minute pregnancy became a reality. What I'd like stats on is how many women out there would have continued with the pregnancy if the father of the child had showed any inclination to support the pregnancy and the subsequent child. And just how many men are there that actually do want their child and are denied by the woman? These are stats I'd like to see. I can quite imagine how they'd go here.
Oh and I'm not "bashing" men here. Just in case any of the fellas think I am.
Jeanne...what I meant was, how would you prove that he coerced the woman to get or was involved in any way with the abortion.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Comments
Bullshit!
There were far fewer actual legal and illegal abortion procedures before 1972, when abortion was legalized in America. Abortion procedures actually grew in number after that. That's funny! Legalize it and then people will do it! Wow!
Abortion was stigmatized before the 70s and people wouldn't do it because of that. Unwanted pregnancies were carried to term because people who had sex would have accountability for it. Now they kill the child.
-Enoch Powell
Oh what crap! Just utter crap!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Yes the history department DEFINITELY sucks and it's FULL OF LIBERALS. Haha, we also have a shitfuck Women's Studies department. The dumbasses who run that department are all pro-choice.
-Enoch Powell
Wow.
Just wow.
Abortion is less prevelant now than at any other point in history, legal or illegal.
But you never answered my other question.
Nuclear fission
Not much chance of that happening Jean!
Too much bad publicity here on the board I'm thinking!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
The rest can eat my ass-blank mud babies.
I have enourmous balls.
I dare anyone to prove me wrong.
*The above poster is a 16 year old white suburban boy, therefore he may fucking not talk about abortion.*
But I can still bust anyone's balls I please for being a self-important douche.
Research from these groups (who are often Pro-Choice) shows that the majority of women who choose abortion never do it twice. The guilt, shame and regret they suffer for the rest of their lives is inmeasurable. Post traumatic support groups are everywhere.
The majority of people who fight for abortion rights are doctors, nurses, politicians and women who have never experienced one. That in itself speaks volumes.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
Guess it depends on how you interpret the information doesn't it Juberoo?
Because I disagree with what you're saying here and in my reading and experience in the women's health field I would say that this is not the case.
But then again you are in America. So perhaps things are different here?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
There's also an article that SuzannePjam posted a while back that said about half of the women who have an abortion in the U.S. have had at least one abortion previously.
If you're going to argue this, you're going to have to get your facts straight.
And yes, I've had one. No, it wasn't the most fun I've ever had, I'll grant you that, but it's far from the worst thing I've been through. Obviously, if I suffered from guilt and shame I wouldn't be posting this on a message board.
and the notion that you would put a woman in jail for such things is ridiculous... WHAT ABOUT THE PROVIDER OF THE SEED... doesnt seem like he was being too responsible either, and his involvement is clear. throw him in jail while you're at it then please.
* Air Canada Centre - Sept 19, 2005
* Eddie Vedder- Massey Hall - Aug 12, 2008
* Molson Amphitheatre - Aug 21, 2009
* HSBC Arena Buffalo - May 10, 2010
* Air Canada Centre - Sept 11 2011
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
And you're getting your info from? A solitary article. Get your intellect straight.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
William and Mary is a beautiful, rustic, well-manicured, historical, campus. I've been there, I will attest.
CorporateWhore is young. He doesn't bother me any. Futility is his domain, Pride is his game.
Not much to it.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Furthermore, this problem is so prevalent that many among the psychiatric community tag this as a subtext of PTSD. It is anticipated that the DSM will adjust its next edition accordingly. (It has been non commital in the past first adding it then removing it....it's reasoning being that of civil liberties infringement)
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
Given that approximately one in three American women has an abortion, if any significant percentage of them were traumatized by it, it would be a genuine public health crisis ... and yet, strangely enough, there doesn't seem to be one. Hmmmmm ......
Some of the hardest chargers against abortion are those that have had an abortion. They've been told by their mates that they are murderers, they've been subjected to the scrutiny of law and imprisonment in this country, and they are constantly the subject of an ongoing constitutional debate.
Is it any wonder that there is going to be psychological fallout? And even further, is it any wonder that the jackals that prey on such fallout are going to arrive at such derisive conclusions as to say that, essentially, "women that have abortions are fucked up."?
Fuck you.
You picked on a friend of mine.
Hippiemom has two beautiful, intelligent, incredible daughters that are far and away greater than anything that you and your thinking will ever produce.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
First of all the article you mention is based on information from the 80's and 90's. Quite outdated already. Furthermore, SG Koop was grossly misquoted by the media as you will see in the attached letter he wrote to the DHS in 1989. In said letter he states again that he felt the groups surveyed were lacking proper controls. So therefore would not base any conclusions on the data. He also goes on to support the medical opinion that addressing the need for abortion was of much more importance than the abortion issue itself. IE: Education. http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/QQ/B/B/Q/Z/_/qqbbqz.pdf
Try again.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
Not to mention that Tony Abbott the "Health" Minister has now deemed it appropriate to provide an "abortion counselling" hotline which is tied in with the Catholic church. No bias there I'm sure!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Australia
And before everybody gets back on their moral high horse, how bout some counselling for the blokes? About how not to get a girl pregnant. I mean if I wanted to start making sweeping generalizations akin to some that I have seen here, seems to me that there are plenty of blokes out there who have had more than one girlfriend have an abortion. Why not spend a little time therapizing them? And while we're at it, seeing as this is about jail sentences for abortion, in my opinion if you contributed to the conception then you are just as guilty when abortion time comes rolling in, so lets lock the fellas up too. I'm sure it's all going to make such a difference to the actual numbers of abortions. :rolleyes:
I mean heaven forbid we were talking about immaculate conception here!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
...exactly why they are the ones who deserve to be listened to.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
In the instance that a pro-lifer is shouted down and muted out of relating her PSTD to the minions, then, maybe we can agree.
That is an issue of freedom of speech, though. Not abortion.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Google results for "PASS": http://www.google.com/search?q=PASS&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
Nothing abortion related on the first page, and I'm not about to scroll through 344,000,000 results looking for it.
Safehaven website: http://www.safehavenministries.com/
If there are any scientific studies there, they are pretty well concealed.
Exhale website: http://www.4exhale.org/
See above.
Planned Parenthood website: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/abortion/risks-and-side-effects.htm
No science, but they do attempt to present a list of possible risks and side-effects. Not surprisingly, they claim that they are minimal.
Google Results for "Abortion Conservation Project": http://www.google.com/search?q=abortion+conservation+project&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
Backline website: http://www.yourbackline.org/
Again, I don't see any studies.
Google results for "Australia/New Zealand Journal of Medicine": http://www.google.com/search?q=Australia%2FNew+Zealand+Journal+of+Medicine&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
Possibly "JM" meant something else? Or you don't have the correct title?
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry: http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/searchres.asp
Finally! Yes indeed, there may be something there, but I'll never know because I'd have to pay to read any of it.
Keep 'em coming, that was very useful :rolleyes:
DNA? Surely the products of conception could be tested? Supposing it came to that. Why if it's good enough to start contemplating jail terms for women who have aborted is it not also good enough for the man named as the father to have to prove that he isn't? Prove that he isn't also guilty and requiring a jail term? And I don't think it's enough to say that if he participated in the decision to abort that he should be held accountable. Men know that if they have sex without a condom that it's reasonable to assume that a pregnancy could be the end result and that if they do not want children then they have a responsiblity to ensure that they do not allow that to happen. They are also well aware that it is a woman's body and a woman's right to choose so bearing that in mind, I don't see how going in without a condom makes you any less culpable. If people are not going to discuss potential pregnancy and outcomes before they have sex, and they're not going to do that, then they each have to take responsiblity for their actions. Just because the pregnancy doesn't occur in the man's body doesn't mean that he is absolved of all responsibility once conception occurs. And if he doesn't agree with abortion then I think that's something he needs to discuss with the woman before they get naked. Ultimately it is her body and her choice but this is not new information. So for every woman out there today procuring an abortion there is a man, who participated and who knew the law as it stands. And I don't necessarily agree that women have fought hard to deny men any involvement in the decision. As I said it's not like we aren't all well aware of the law as it stands. For all the women that I know that have had one I would have to say a greater many of them have been hung out to dry and left the minute pregnancy became a reality. What I'd like stats on is how many women out there would have continued with the pregnancy if the father of the child had showed any inclination to support the pregnancy and the subsequent child. And just how many men are there that actually do want their child and are denied by the woman? These are stats I'd like to see. I can quite imagine how they'd go here.
Oh and I'm not "bashing" men here. Just in case any of the fellas think I am.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
hehee.
you're good.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Jeanne...what I meant was, how would you prove that he coerced the woman to get or was involved in any way with the abortion.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.